This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[watertheodds]

I'd be interested to see some statistics. How many smokers on an average cruise on HAL who would stop sailing if they couldn't smoke. How many people who would choose to sail on a cruise that prohibited smoking. Would it be a wash or would the cruise line use money. I have to presume HAL has done market research around the balcony smoking.

 

 

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I believe statistics would prove that smokers gamble more, drink more and spend more on board. It probably isn't the income from the cabin sales to smokers as it is the residual income from smokers. HAL appeals to a older demographic that appreciates gracious service, fine china, afternoon tea, formal nights and mid sized ships. Baby Boomers and older are the last generations that indulge in smoking. With the competition of the mega ships which appeal to younger more energy driven families and individuals, HAL simply has to compete. In order to keep their fares in line and offer the services we all appreciate, they must make income elsewhere. Lets face it, the majority of HAL customers go to the inclusive dinner, attend the inclusive entertainment and have a (1) brandy or nightcap before they turn in at 10:00. If they do gamble they tie up the penny machines playing the minimum bet. That lifestyle is not filling the HAL coffers.

 

Now, don't pound me if you are an exception. I like to think I am too. If you are honest and take a look around on your HAL cruise you would agree this is an accurate assessment of the majority of passengers. IF you wish to continue to enjoy the HAL line and what it offers then you must consider the business aspect and let the smoking war die a natural death.

[kevingastreich]

I agree. It is certainly nice to read that someone has a good solution. However, not everyone is so nice and I am one who really dislikes confrontation. And, these things, as we know can be uncomfortable for both parties. I would be hesitant in asking someone to refrain from smoking. After all, it is their right on Holland America balconies.

 

Most of the time, I'm bothered more by the hacking and coughing and not the actual smoke itself. (especially if I hear a "spit" sound after)

[RuthC]

It is all worked out and life is good. I still smoke but not when they are on the balcony. It's pretty simple - all you have to do is talk.

See how easy. :)

[Fouremco]

That's a rather definitive statement. Do you have any hard evidence to back that up?

 

Based on many of the posts on this thread alone I would conclude that the majority of people don't mind that there are smoking areas, but don't want the smoke from them crossing to non-smoking areas.

My conclusion is a little different, as I believe that the majority of non-smoking passengers are willing to put up with limited smoking on board, but if given the choice, would favour a smoke-free environment. Of course, the biggest issue isn't whether or not there are designated smoking areas, but the inclusion of balconies as smoking areas. This thread would quickly end if HAL was to change that element of its policy.

[RuthC]

My conclusion is a little different, as I believe that the majority of non-smoking passengers are willing to put up with limited smoking on board, but if given the choice, would favour a smoke-free environment.

So, you are backing off on your earlier statement

The solution that would please the majority of people would be an outright ban on smoking on the ship.

.

Happy to see it, as it was ridiculous.

[Fouremco]

So, you are backing off on your earlier statement

.

Happy to see it, as it was ridiculous.

No backing off at all, but feel free to continue interpreting things as you wish. :rolleyes:

[Aquahound]

No backing off at all, but feel free to continue interpreting things as you wish. :rolleyes:

 

I understood perfectly what you were saying. You said most non smokers would be pleased with a non smoking ship, but are willing to tolerate limited smoking. Seems pretty clear to me. I'm not sure what was hard to understand about that. :confused:

[kevingastreich]

And the Seaview Bar is not adequate enough, which means HAL would have to provide another area on the ship to give to smokers. Now this then would egg on the non smokers again. It's a catch 22 situation I think

 

Maybe HAL could institute a sort of "rationing" system. Those with portside cabins use the area at certain times only and other times for starboard side passengers. That way, only half the smokers would ever be there at one time. As for being dirty and disgusting...who is supposed to clean up the smokers' mess?

[kevingastreich]

Smoking should not be permitted anywhere on ship. It is disgusting and grossly offensive.

 

Not even in the crew's area? Give them a break at least! :p

[kevingastreich]

Smoke from a starboard balcony making it round to a port balcony in a 20 knot wind - a good trick if you can do it - and a re-write of the laws of physics to boot.

 

Maybe not cig smoke but diesel exhaust for sure! That was a worse problem on our last balcony than cig smoke was for sure!

[Neferteria]

Are we to start rationing alcohol for people who drink? Check their blood alcohol levels? Send them down to the Friends of Bill meetings? We all have things that annoy and irritate us, but the world does not revolve around any one of us. A ship is a community as is any group of people who gather together. Live and Let Live!

 

I completely agree with Ruth and Jackie. Simple communication and a willingness to work with fellow travelers for their mutual satisfaction and comfort is the key. Denigrating smokers and making snide remarks like "...cleaning up their mess" have a very low likelihood for success for anyone.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Neferteria

[RuthC]

No backing off at all, but feel free to continue interpreting things as you wish. :rolleyes:

Then it's time to answer the original question: where is your data to back up your statement?

[CRUZBUDS]

We are just back from our first Princess cruise since the 90's and were beyond pleased with the smoking situation. I don't know if there was an indoor smoking area, besides the casino (if playing) There may have been another inside area, my bad knee was acting up so I may have missed one. :(

 

To us it was even better than Celebrity. No smoking near any of the pool areas, where Celebrity has a portion of the pool deck designated for the smokers.

 

Hard to believe HAL is so far behind the societal norms. Smoking is an anti-social behavior. I am so glad I met my DW, I would have had no chance to win her, had I kept smoking 35 years ago. :)

[kennicott]

My conclusion is a little different, as I believe that the majority of non-smoking passengers are willing to put up with limited smoking on board, but if given the choice, would favour a smoke-free environment. Of course, the biggest issue isn't whether or not there are designated smoking areas, but the inclusion of balconies as smoking areas. This thread would quickly end if HAL was to change that element of its policy.

 

I believe your statement here to be a fair assessment of the average views posted herein since the inception of this thread.

 

What I find is that by far the majority of cruisers now-a-days would prefer complete bans on shipboard smoking. But they aren't unreasonably adamant over it. All one needs for evidence of that is to look at the Celebrity poll on this forum. Over 93% applaud no balcony smoking and over 83% favor the elimination of casino smoking. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2279152

 

Like ourselves, it causes us no problem at all to have a smoking policy similar to what Princess has now. My fear is that on a long cruise on HAL we might just get stuck with an adjacent balcony cigar smoker who gets into the habit of inviting his buddies over for a "smoke along". So we canceled two HAL cruises and no longer book with them.

 

But I do stay tuned to this thread in case a miracle happens. As four star Mariners we have a lot of perquisites at stake.

 

It appears to me that HAL is unlikely to be able to prohibit balcony smoking in the near future due to the circumstances they now find themselves in, unless and until they have interior lounges dedicated to smokers on all their ships, like they do on many other lines, for example the Churchill rooms on Princess and Cunard or the Connoisseur smoking rooms on Regent, Carnival and other lines.

 

Unfortunately, the overwhelming evidence I see pointing to a do nothing approach to providing fleet wide exclusive smoking lounges is that their new ship is coming out without one. Furthermore, they have had numerous ships in dry dock since Stein Kruse made a public pronouncement they would look into "on board smoking alternatives", where such could be installed, and, with the exception of the one "Oak Room" on the Noordam, nothing has changed. Worse yet, as near as I can tell HAL hasn't got a new ship on order right now, meaning at the earliest they won't get another in service until 1919 or 2020.

[Bouillon123]

And the Seaview Bar is not adequate enough, which means HAL would have to provide another area on the ship to give to smokers. Now this then would egg on the non smokers again. It's a catch 22 situation I think

 

Maybe HAL could institute a sort of "rationing" system. Those with portside cabins use the area at certain times only and other times for starboard side passengers. That way, only half the smokers would ever be there at one time. As for being dirty and disgusting...who is supposed to clean up the smokers' mess?

 

I worked in hospitality for 18 years and to empy an ashtray or wipe a table is the minimum standard a guest can expect. It is not a matter of mess that a smoker makes but a matter of service provided by waiters who are employed by HAL. Several times I had to clear tables of left over glasses from previous guests and I also went to the bar to get a cloth to wipe the table from wine and beer stains. I don't mind doing it myself but considering what we pay to cruise, I was not impressed with it.

Do I also have to clean my "mess" up at dinner? Maybe collect my plates, go to the kitchen and do a bit of washing up? :D

[Just_a_cruiser]

Are we to start rationing alcohol for people who drink? Check their blood alcohol levels? Send them down to the Friends of Bill meetings? We all have things that annoy and irritate us, but the world does not revolve around any one of us. A ship is a community as is any group of people who gather together. Live and Let Live!

 

I completely agree with Ruth and Jackie. Simple communication and a willingness to work with fellow travelers for their mutual satisfaction and comfort is the key. Denigrating smokers and making snide remarks like "...cleaning up their mess" have a very low likelihood for success for anyone.

 

Someone that drinks or has a high blood sugar level does not do anything to decrease your enjoyment of your balcony. Smokers are allowed to smoke on their balcony, plain and simple. While some may possibly be open to a schedule they are under no obligation to do so. I'm not going to ask someone to stop something they have every right to do. Instead I will not book a balcony. Let the smokers pay for them. I will continue to pressure hal to stop balcony smoking.

[Just_a_cruiser]

I understood perfectly what you were saying. You said most non smokers would be pleased with a non smoking ship, but are willing to tolerate limited smoking. Seems pretty clear to me. I'm not sure what was hard to understand about that. :confused:

 

There is nothing hard to understand about it.

[erewhon]

I avoid this thread like the plague, but... I am going to post.

 

Yes, I am an evil person that smokes. I don't smoke a lot, but I smoke.

 

I am on the Westerdam and my next door neighbour has asthma I had discovered so smoke is an aggravation to her.

 

I have simply told them simple signals to let me know when they are on the balcony so I don't bother them.

 

There is no reason they can't enjoy their balcony and I can't enjoy mine.

 

I have indicated a signal so they know.

 

they are a very nice couple and I don't want to inhibit their enjoyment.

 

It is all worked out and life is good. I still smoke (I do want to quit) but not when they are on the balcony. It's pretty simple - all you have to do is talk.

 

How hard is this? It's just called working it out and being considerate.

 

 

Thank you for being such a considerate smoker.

 

Good luck quitting smoking.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

...

 

What I find is that by far the majority of cruisers now-a-days would prefer complete bans on shipboard smoking. But they aren't unreasonably adamant over it. All one needs for evidence of that is to look at the Celebrity poll on this forum. Over 93% applaud no balcony smoking and over 83% favor the elimination of casino smoking. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2279152

 

...

 

I'd suppose, however, that most of the hard core smokers ("it's my God given right to smoke and pollute your air..." kind of folks) have already fled Celebrity for smokier pastures, thus to take a poll amongst that remaining group would yield understandably skewed numbers - in favor of smoking limitations.

 

Having said that, I do think that a significant majority of cruisers today are in favor of smoke-free balconies and casinos. It's sure a consideration when we book, and one reason we enjoy Celebrity as much as we do.

 

Tom

[Aquahound]

I believe your statement here to be a fair assessment of the average views posted herein since the inception of this thread.

 

What I find is that by far the majority of cruisers now-a-days would prefer complete bans on shipboard smoking. But they aren't unreasonably adamant over it. All one needs for evidence of that is to look at the Celebrity poll on this forum. Over 93% applaud no balcony smoking and over 83% favor the elimination of casino smoking. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2279152

 

I totally agree. What you and Fouremco posted are not only common sense, it's backed up by virtually every smoking thread I've seen in the past 10 years I've been on this site.

[kevingastreich]

Are we to start rationing alcohol for people who drink? Denigrating smokers and making snide remarks like "...cleaning up their mess" have a very low likelihood for success for anyone.

 

Somebody said that the Seaview bar area was not of an adequate size. (post #3702) Rationing usage might help alleviate that problem. The same poster also said that they thought the area was dirty and disgusting. A little self policing by her and her fellow smokers might help with that.

Edited April 28, 2016 by kevingastreich

[Bouillon123]

Somebody said that the Seaview bar area was not of an adequate size. (post #3702) Rationing usage might help alleviate that problem. The same poster also said that they thought the area was dirty and disgusting. A little self policing by her and her fellow smokers might help with that.

 

You did not read my reply. Otherwise you would not have responded the way you have. :rolleyes:

[kevingastreich]

You did not read my reply. Otherwise you would not have responded the way you have. :rolleyes:

 

If the smokers out at the Seaview Bar DO decide to empty their own ashtrays, they should be VERY careful not to start a fire.

[kennicott]

I'd suppose, however, that most of the hard core smokers ("it's my God given right to smoke and pollute your air..." kind of folks) have already fled Celebrity for smokier pastures, thus to take a poll amongst that remaining group would yield understandably skewed numbers - in favor of smoking limitations.

 

Having said that, I do think that a significant majority of cruisers today are in favor of smoke-free balconies and casinos. It's sure a consideration when we book, and one reason we enjoy Celebrity as much as we do.Tom

 

Yes, but remember that poll was taken originally not long after they implemented their new smoking procedures. One thing that amazes me about Celebrity is that unlike most of the other majors they have no interior lounges dedicated to smokers (i.e. the Churchill rooms on Princess and Cunard or the Connoisseur smoking rooms on Regent, Carnival and other lines) in addition to that they have banned smoking completely in their Casinos. Yet one rarely hears any criticism over that. That is why I say Celebrity has to be by far the closest line to being smoke free. In addition, it doesn't appear that their bookings have suffered due that either.

 

In the case of HAL, I contend it is unlikely that they will be able to prohibit balcony smoking in the near future due to the circumstances they now find themselves in, by that I mean they have attracted quite a few smokers from other lines and it is going to be very onerous for them to get rid of balcony smoking unless they offer other smoking alternatives, the only thing I can imagine in that regard is dedicated high quality smoking lounges. Today they have to have the highest ratio of smokers vs non-smokers on their ships.

[sandij]

I think the poll numbers are the result of non smokers being inside on their computers more to answer such a poll, while the smokers are outside smoking their little lungs away. i don't smoke but DH does and he's always outside away from the computer. I always thought the Celebrity ships were pretty but I guess i'll never find out.