Holland America - Premium or Mainstream cruiseline?

[sun~]

When HAL stops hawking junky merchandise, endless badgering for photos, crappy art auctions, hard sell spa services, bingo! bingo! bingo!, there still will have to be major changes in order for it to be a premium line.

The ships have had many maintenance issues. There are lots of comments about the dark and dreary decor. The nothing special design of the interior of the ships. No wow factors.

The crew, while FYI hard working, aren't the best trained at sea. Not even close. The staff has been dismal on many, many occasions on responding to issues that have arisen on board. There certainly have been enough complaints of AC and plumbing issues on many of HAL's ships.

The entertainment has been pretty much the worst of any cruise line. HAL is trying to fix that, but they are still light years behind RCI and NCL.

All the bells and whistles, in whatever form, such as a truly all inclusive cruise or one with great entertainment and amenities cost more. It really doesn't matter that you don't like the idea of a floating resort or paying for the real deal high end cruise, it still doesn't make HAL a premium cruise.

So from what I have experienced, HAL is a bottom of the barrel mainstream cruise line.

[cruz chic]

[quote name='frankc98376']Just wait until they install the new water and cold towel vending machines on the pier. Just put your cruise card in the slot and out will pop a cold bottle of water and a cold damp biodegradable towel- all for the low price of $5![/QUOTE]

Behave:D;). Don't give them any ideas. But the question is, will this count towards my onboard spending? Edited August 22, 2014 by cruz chic

[cruz chic]

[quote name='sun~']When HAL stops hawking junky merchandise, endless badgering for photos, crappy art auctions, hard sell spa services, bingo! bingo! bingo!, there still will have to be major changes in order for it to be a premium line.

The ships have had many maintenance issues. There are lots of comments about the dark and dreary decor. The nothing special design of the interior of the ships. No wow factors.

The crew, while FYI hard working, aren't the best trained at sea. Not even close. The staff has been dismal on many, many occasions on responding to issues that have arisen on board. There certainly have been enough complaints of AC and plumbing issues on many of HAL's ships.

The entertainment has been pretty much the worst of any cruise line. HAL is trying to fix that, but they are still light years behind RCI and NCL.

All the bells and whistles, in whatever form, such as a truly all inclusive cruise or one with great entertainment and amenities cost more. It really doesn't matter that you don't like the idea of a floating resort or paying for the real deal high end cruise, it still doesn't make HAL a premium cruise.

So from what I have experienced, HAL is a bottom of the barrel mainstream cruise line.[/QUOTE]

I guess you haven't tried Celebrity then. That is the bottom of the barrel if anything is.

[shipfriend_max]

[quote name='frankc98376']Just wait until they install the new water and cold towel vending machines on the pier. Just put your cruise card in the slot and out will pop a cold bottle of water and a cold damp biodegradable towel- all for the low price of $5![/QUOTE]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I did not want to argue against Princess, we had great experiences on those cruises with them. But that was a difference we recognized between Celebrity and Princess. Maybe Princess has changed it... but not a thing I really MUST have... but a nice-to-have.

Interesting that in that particular Panama Canal book MSC = TRADITIONAL!?
For me, this line is anything but traditional - we experienced them as lively, upbeat, but also noisy - nothing that really has something to do with a traditional cruise experience.
IMHO Princess is rather traditional.
I have heard that RCI has the same standards as Princess, but the latter line is just more appealing to older people.
Next week I can experience it "life" on my first RCI cruise. :)

[frankc98376]

[quote name='celebrity_fan']:confused: :confused: :confused:

I did not want to argue against Princess, we had great experiences on those cruises with them. But that was a difference we recognized between Celebrity and Princess. Maybe Princess has changed it... but not a thing I really MUST have... but a nice-to-have.

Interesting that in that particular Panama Canal book MSC = TRADITIONAL!?
For me, this line is anything but traditional - we experienced them as lively, upbeat, but also noisy - nothing that really has something to do with a traditional cruise experience.
IMHO Princess is rather traditional.
I have heard that RCI has the same standards as Princess, but the latter line is just more appealing to older people.
Next week I can experience it "life" on my first RCI cruise. :)[/QUOTE]

My comment was meant in jest (a joke)- not an argument.

[shipfriend_max]

[quote name='frankc98376']My comment was meant in jest (a joke)- not an argument.[/QUOTE]

Ok... no problem. :)

One fact that does HAl better than Celebrity, are the Panama Canal routes IMHO... especially those two on Noordam and Westerdam in April 2015 just look too amazing... :cool:

[iancal]

HAL is perfect for the Panama Canal IF, and it can be a big IF, the AC is working properly. If not...take the next ship!

[navybankerteacher]

[quote name='sun~']When HAL stops hawking junky merchandise, endless badgering for photos, crappy art auctions, hard sell spa services, bingo! bingo! bingo!, there still will have to be major changes in order for it to be a premium line.

The ships have had many maintenance issues. There are lots of comments about the dark and dreary decor. The nothing special design of the interior of the ships. No wow factors.

The crew, while FYI hard working, aren't the best trained at sea. Not even close. The staff has been dismal on many, many occasions on responding to issues that have arisen on board. There certainly have been enough complaints of AC and plumbing issues on many of HAL's ships.

The entertainment has been pretty much the worst of any cruise line. HAL is trying to fix that, but they are still light years behind RCI and NCL.

All the bells and whistles, in whatever form, such as a truly all inclusive cruise or one with great entertainment and amenities cost more. It really doesn't matter that you don't like the idea of a floating resort or paying for the real deal high end cruise, it still doesn't make HAL a premium cruise.

So from what I have experienced, HAL is a bottom of the barrel mainstream cruise line.[/QUOTE]

There is no point in referring to all-inclusive or high end cruises in discussing HAL - HAL does not claim to be one. But when you discuss hawking junk merchandise, promoting bingo, etc. as negatives, how can you not mention NCL?

What some might refer to a dark and dreary factor - others might see as traditional maritime decor. For some the hull paintings of NCL are simply tacky - and when someone starts referring to "wow factor" as important, I wonder if they are referring to Vegas style gilt decor or amusement park rides - neither of which strike me as necessary, or even desirable, on a ship.

While I agree that HAL's entertainment is not up to the standards of Royal Caribbean, or others , I have not noticed any of the maintenance problems cited - while I have regularly found the service, and attitude, of the staff to be distinctly superior to, and the food quality at least on a par with, that on other mass market lines - while the ships layouts and sizes are distinctly superior.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

[quote name='sun~']When HAL stops hawking junky merchandise, endless badgering for photos, crappy art auctions, hard sell spa services, bingo! bingo! bingo!, there still will have to be major changes in order for it to be a premium line.[/QUOTE]

As much as I like HAL, I have to agree with you. When I did b2b cruises on HAL and Celebrity, I saw all of the above on HAL and only the art auction on X. Celebrity was a cut above in ambiance; I felt their downfall was a surly bunch of officers. Never a response from a smile or "good morning" on my part. HAL's crews have always been pleasant, on the other hand. Edited August 23, 2014 by Ryndam2002

[Lizzie68]

[quote name='iancal']HAL is perfect for the Panama Canal IF, and it can be a big IF, the AC is working properly. If not...take the next ship![/quote]

Last time we did the Panama canal cruise I swear they turned the air conditioning off every night. We would wake up around 3 am in a very stuffy cabin. Otherwise, it was OK.

[cruisetrail]

We are planning our next cruise with our friends.
The have received exclusive prices from Oceania.
[URL="http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=37729016&postcount=213"]I showed them photos I posted long ago.[/URL]
They have no more questions about "unparalleled luxury" at sea.

[hvsteve1]

As you can see by my signature I have had three Regent cruises followed by two on HAL so I think I'm pretty qualified to note some differences.

While many of the folks on HAL are very friendly, on Regent they fall all over themselves trying to make you happy. Every time we left our Regent "suite", it seemed the attendant was in there to straighten or freshen things, fold our clothes, etc. On HAL we hoped our cabin would be made up by the time we got back from lunch. Regent never had us sitting around waiting to get into the dining room as we often did on HAL. When we went to afternoon tea on Regent the display was jaw-dropping and we were served real brewed tea. On HAL they gave us tea bags and, if we asked for more, poured hot water over the old bag. And they dished out from trays of pastries which were not that impressive. When we went ashore with Regent we were plied with bottles of water, towels, etc. while leaving the ship. When we returned we walked right on while other, larger, ships nearby had long lines. In tender ports there were hospitality tents on shore where we got hot chocolate in Alaska and cold drinks in the Caribbean while we waited for a tender. On HAL we stood in long lines in the hot sun in Hawaii.

I've told the story on other discussions of being on Navigator the week they changed the name of the line from "Radisson" to "Regent". At the Seven Seas Society Captain's reception (champaign and caviar) my wife mentioned to the hotel manager how much she loved the now replaced Radisson logo coffee service with its delicate Scandinavian china. When we got home there was a carton of china compliments of the hotel manager. On the Alaska cruise, the room attendant threw out some printed materials I had picked up, which she was not supposed to do. The housekeeping manager literally went dumpster diving below deck to retrieve some of it. On their next cruise, the ship sent someone ashore to replace those materials and sent them to me along with a video and book they had purchased AND a credit on a future cruise. Try and get someone on a HAL cruise to not only admit they screwed up but go through that kind of trouble to make it up to you.

Now, I'm not trashing HAL because we did enjoy the cruises and there was a significant price difference. But there is a substantial difference between upper midstream or premium and a true luxury cruise. I recall meeting a number of people on Regent who had sailed on other "midstream" lines who told me thy could never go back.

Our upcoming cruise is on Celebrity. Our TA told us it would be a bit more upscale than HAL. And we booked because he got us beverage cards and free gratuities and OBC so this should feel more inclusive like Regent where I don't have to spend the week making decisions based on how much I want to charge to my on board account.

[kjw869]

[quote name='navybankerteacher']..What some might refer to a dark and dreary factor - others might see as traditional maritime decor. For some the hull paintings of NCL are simply tacky - and when someone starts referring to "wow factor" as important, I wonder if they are referring to Vegas style gilt decor or amusement park rides - neither of which strike me as necessary, or even desirable, on a ship.[/QUOTE]

And the cabins on NCL. A friend and his wife showed us pictures of his cabin on I believe the Jewel, and it looks like the decorator was hallucinating when he/she picked the color scheme. The colors were orange and a bright pink. They said they felt like they were on some kid's room. I wonder if the same decorator came up with the hull paintings---real classy.:eek:

[navybankerteacher]

[quote name='hvsteve1']As you can see by my signature I have had three Regent cruises followed by two on HAL so I think I'm pretty qualified to note some differences.

[/QUOTE]

Congratulations on being able to distinguish apples from oranges. Wouldn't you expect to see a difference between the experiences encountered on a ship costing you $500 to $1,000 per person per day and one costing you $100 to $250 per day?

[rjrpar]

Check out HAL's prices; very similar to all the mass market cruise lines, not even close to the premium prices. Surely not as nice as Celebrity. I think some loyal HAL cruisers are delusionary.

[Cruising-along]

[quote name='hvsteve1']As you can see by my signature I have had three Regent cruises followed by two on HAL so I think I'm pretty qualified to note some differences.

While many of the folks on HAL are very friendly, on Regent they fall all over themselves trying to make you happy. Every time we left our Regent "suite", it seemed the attendant was in there to straighten or freshen things,[B] fold our clothes, [/B]etc. On HAL we hoped our cabin would be made up by the time we got back from lunch. Regent never had us sitting around waiting to get into the dining room as we often did on HAL. When we went to afternoon tea on Regent the display was jaw-dropping and we were served real brewed tea. On HAL they gave us tea bags and, if we asked for more, poured hot water over the old bag. And they dished out from trays of pastries which were not that impressive. When we went ashore with Regent we were plied with bottles of water, towels, etc. while leaving the ship. When we returned we walked right on while other, larger, ships nearby had long lines. In tender ports there were hospitality tents on shore where we got hot chocolate in Alaska and cold drinks in the Caribbean while we waited for a tender. On HAL we stood in long lines in the hot sun in Hawaii...
[/QUOTE]

While the rest of this sounds good, am I the only one who would not be happy if someone folded my clothes? I don't leave my clothes out for that reason, but if I did, I sure as heck wouldn't want someone folding, moving, etc. my personal belongings.

[OVgirl]

[quote name='Cruising-along']While the rest of this sounds good, am I the only one who would not be happy if someone folded my clothes? I don't leave my clothes out for that reason, but if I did, I sure as heck wouldn't want someone folding, moving, etc. my personal belongings.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="3"]I totally agree with you. I will even throw everything into a closet when we leave the cabin because I also don't want anyone dealing with my personal belongings.[/SIZE]

[kjw869]

[quote name='navybankerteacher']Congratulations on being able to distinguish apples from oranges. Wouldn't you expect to see a difference between the experiences encountered on a ship costing you $500 to $1,000 per person per day and one costing you $100 to $250 per day?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I thought that was foolish. :confused: It's like comparing a Ford Fusion to a Mercedes.;)

[taxmantoo]

[quote name='kjw869']Yes, I thought that was foolish. :confused: It's like comparing a Ford Fusion to a Mercedes.;)[/QUOTE]

Comparing them is not foolish ... Saying they are alike IS ;)

[Murray's Pop]

Overall I'd say that HAL was more of upper mainstream line, along with Celebrity. NCL, RCCL and Princess coming in close behind.

Having sailed on HAL and Celebrity recently I am not really in agreement with those who say that X is more "upscale". Then again we may have a differing opinion on what "upscale" means.

Personally I'm not a fan of the W Hotels, a brand typically referred to as upscale, with more trendy glitz. I prefer a more traditional elegance. That is how I look at the difference between HAL and X.

At the same time, I do prefer a number of X amenities over HAL, an example being their Premium Beverage package and suit amenities.

[cruisemom42]

[quote name='kjw869']And the cabins on NCL. A friend and his wife showed us pictures of his cabin on I believe the Jewel, and it looks like the decorator was hallucinating when he/she picked the color scheme. The colors were orange and a bright pink. They said they felt like they were on some kid's room. I wonder if the same decorator came up with the hull paintings---real classy.:eek:[/QUOTE]

You mean orange and bright pink, like the garish decor of the Vista Lounge on the Zuiderdam?

[url]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8437/7755479814_a6871cdafa.jpg[/url]


:rolleyes:

[navybankerteacher]

[quote name='taxmantoo']Comparing them is not foolish ... Saying they are alike IS ;)[/QUOTE]

No one was saying they were alike. Comparing their service levels without recognizing the massive price differential is pointless.

[kjw869]

[quote name='cruisemom42']You mean orange and bright pink, like the garish decor of the Vista Lounge on the Zuiderdam?

[url]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8437/7755479814_a6871cdafa.jpg[/url]


:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Yup, they got of him/her and he/she went to NCL, to design the cabins!:eek:

[URL=http://s966.photobucket.com/user/kjw869/media/images.jpg.html][IMG]http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae146/kjw869/images.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Edited August 23, 2014 by kjw869

[kjw869]

[quote name='navybankerteacher']No one was saying they were alike. Comparing their service levels without recognizing the massive price differential is pointless.[/QUOTE]

Exactly!

[hvsteve1]

As I say in my post, I have no problem with HAL because I save a lot of money. Since I sailed with Regent, the price has been going up due to increased perks (hotel before or after cruise, free shore excursions) and the fact they have made their cruises longer meaning we have to cruise for 10 or 11 days minimum rather than a week. As another poster said, you're comparing a Ford Fusion with a Mercedes. As I see it, the person who buys an $80,000 Mercedes has to be in the position where $80,000 isn't a big deal. I am now in the position where a $10,000 Eastern Caribbean cruise isn't worth ten grand, I don't care how luxurious the ship is and if we stop in fancy ports such as St. Bart's. I pick and choose where I blow my extra bucks. When I need a place to stop on the road, a Red Roof Inn is fine. When I'm on vacation, if I can get a deal on a four or five star hotel that will make my stay more enjoyable, it's worth the money.