Ashes to Ashes

[BND]

Statistics/polls can never be completely believed. The statisticians are hired by people with an agenda and often formulate questions to come to a desired outcome. Often they arbitrarily just leave out data. For example:

 

Do you really believe the unemployment rate is 6.1%? They don't count people who have "dropped out" of the workforce. Why?

 

My advice: be very wary when anyone quotes statistics/polls.

 

"There are three types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics!"

 

So, do you think the number of smokers is higher? I don't because I've seen how there are less and less smokers in all aspects of my life. To start, less than 10% of the people in my life smoke and I'm talking work, church, family, neighbors. But, that said, the fact that less educated people are more likely to smoke has been upheld for years in multiple studies.

 

Yes, people make up statistics and skew them to their advantage, but you do realize that even the tobacco companies agree with the drop in number of smokers, etc. And as for the education stat, I (and others) can see that in our lives on a regular basis. Just as we can see the umployment numbers for ourselves that DO NOT match what the gov stats say. BTW, everyone needs to know how those numbers are come up with and it's not the way most of us would count them. Smoking stats are a bit different, either you smoke or you don't, either you have an advanced degree or you don't. Unemployment numbers get skewed by the people who have quit looking for work and aren't counted.

Edited September 6, 2014 by BND

[pspercy]

Unemployment numbers get skewed by the people who have quit looking for work and aren't counted.

 

Actually we don't know that they've quit, only that they no longer receive UI. Either way the number quoted is a fraud just like inflation numbers.

[Finbar127]

Everything I could find prior to the ban for cigarettes said cigar smoking was allowed in the cigar bar (if there was one) or a designated cigar smoking location. They never said it was "allowed" on balconies, so it's a semantics issue.

Semantic and moot. Why keep it going?

[jailer19]

I'm still trying to figure out what education has to do with a cruise smoking thread. Just because some people are less educated doesn't mean they don't have the funds to enjoy a cruise, smoker or not. That should not have even been brought up!!!

[tinatark]

(from a non smoker)

 

I really like the non smoking nights in the casino - casino is mostly empty - at least on the cruises I've been on - Princess, Carnival and RC... I can easily find a seat at a blackjack table or popular slot machine.

[Mapleleafforever]

Actually, that's exactly why I believe they WILL eventually ban it, as sister-line Celebrity has already done. Revenue tends to go DOWN, not up, if smoky conditions drive away over 80% of your potential customers.

 

I'm gonna have to agree with you there. It's only a matter of time.....

[Sass4]

I think that paragraph speaks volumes. And to think you were in a position to be sitting in judgement of what the rest of us wrote around here.

 

And wondering if he got fired and came back to stir the pot....

[gerif]

(from a non smoker)

 

I really like the non smoking nights in the casino - casino is mostly empty - at least on the cruises I've been on - Princess, Carnival and RC... I can easily find a seat at a blackjack table or popular slot machine.

 

Sadly, when they eliminated balcony smoking, they also eliminated smoke-free nights in the casino.

[Merion_Mom]

On Thursday night I was watching one of the national news broadcasts.

 

The reporter said that 81.8% of all American households are smoke-free.

[PRgymnast]

Just like it took customer feedback to cause the change, it will also take customer feedback if you'd like another change.

 

This will be my first cruise since the change in policy. I'm not much of a gambler but will prob not gamble at all if it's the smoke spot. But YAY, I will not have to worry about smoke on the balcony!

 

I don't understand why they don't make one section (not side) of the ship for smokers; say aft/starboard. Dedicate the last 10-20 balconies and only allow smoking on balconies while the ship is moving, not in port. That way, they're all grouped and non smokers will never know. Funny, I don't mind the medical smell and I don't mind pipe smell but cannot stand cigs or cigars.

 

Personally, I have no issue at all with vapers. It's just water vapor with trace chemicals. We get far worse in our tap water and sprayed on us from the skies, but that's for another forum altogether ;)

[mollyeilis]

If cigarette smoke on a moving cruise ship bothers you, I am sure the smell coming from the ships funnel has to bother you.

 

I've only cruised 4 times, which is low, but I've never smelled anything coming from a smokestack. And our first cruise, I was pregnant and smelled EVERYTHING, and still, nothing from a smokestack.

 

 

I think any revenue lost because of the smoking policy will come from the casino. I always spend a lot of time in there since I love to gamble but now I won't. I have asthma and all of that smoke is really bad in there.

 

I'm all for giving smokers an indoor area to smoke but why make it the casino?? There are more non smokers than smokers these days so that is going to mean less money lost in their casinos.

 

I'm hoping they will begin to get the message and will change the indoor smoking area.

 

I'm still going to cruise but will have to stay out of the casino.

 

Smoking has always been allowed in the casinos, and is allowed in most casinos in the States. Theo nly thing that might have changed is the number of people smoking. To someone with asthma, that usually isn't noticeable, as you're already having asthma with the lower number of people smoking. (voice of experience here)

 

 

Friend was on another line with her e-cig, or something like that, she said she was vaping. I don't understand all that stuff.:o Anyway, whatever it was that she had looks nothing like a cigarette and the person next to her starting coughing and covering her nose, etc. Sometimes things are just the power of suggestion.;)

 

If it looked nothing like a cigarette, where exactly is the power of suggestion?

 

People sometimes do have to cough, sometimes smell things. Perhaps your friend wasn't the only person there. Perhaps the person was sick. Perhaps there was something smelly happening.

 

Diamond Level Cruiser on Royal and Platinum on Carnival - You shouldnt make assumptions -BTW - former employee here at Cruise Critic. Look up posts for HOST TERRY!

 

IMO it's more of an assumption that you were someone else here before. If you were a host before, you know that all people have to go by is what people post. IMO it goes without saying that the end of that sentence should be "under the same username".

 

 

 

I'm inclined to think that drinkers tend to smoke and gamble more ;)

 

You've just described most of my friends from HS and college. :)

 

 

 

I wanted there to be some confusion on my post. My point (probably a little complex for some) is the smoking debate transcends into many issues. Of course, I knew I would get the typical responses – I worked here for almost 15 years and deleted 1000’s of posts (or actually moved them!) Don’t you just love the attacks based on my number of posts!?! Or the people that don’t get it and make a sophomoric response just to see their post count go up? 

 

Why have a no smoking policy that allows smoking inside the ship while banning it on balconies? There is the conundrum! The smoking experiment has been tried –who sailed on the Paradise (Carnival)? Does anyone remember why it stopped being a smoke free ship?

 

So what's your solution? Before the balcony ban, they allowed smoking there, on some outside parts of the ship, and the casino. Now it's allowed on some outside parts of the ship and the casino. I'm mystified as to what you want the solution to be, or how cancelling makes any sense.

 

I'm also mystified as to how you felt attacked in any way, shape, or form. The people noticing your number of posts were trying to figure out if you had even been on a ship yet.

 

 

 

Do you really believe the unemployment rate is 6.1%? They don't count people who have "dropped out" of the workforce. Why?

 

I guess the question for you is how are they going to get a totally accurate number? There's someone like me, who dropped out of the workforce in 2002 and haven't yet gone back. I should NOT be counted in the statistics, because while I am not employed, I don't consider myself to be unemployed. The way they figure it out is to see the percentage of those getting unemployment. It would be very hard to get an accurate, quick, number in any other way. they can't poll us all and get a correct number; how many people fill out surveys? That's just the way they do it.

[terrygbennett]

And wondering if he got fired and came back to stir the pot....

 

I resigned. Left on excellent terms. Took Several Host Cruises. :) I just think the smoking debate is an interesting issue!

[nbsjcruiser]

First a caveat - I don't smoke.

 

Lets assume that the often quoted figure of 20% of the people smoke is accurate. Its not as easy to pluck the numbers out and say, well we'll please 80% of the people if we have a 100% smoke free ship. Not true. If you drive smokers away you also drive their non-smoking spouses away so the actual percentage of people that might elect to go elsewhere is higher than the number of people who smoke and I suspect the cruise lines know this.

 

The other thing we have to keep in mind is that non-smokers tend to be a vocal group who are hard to please. For instance, we're going on the NCL Sun soon and there's something like 35 balconies still available. I would have thought the non-smokers would have gobbled them right up after NCL's announcement in July that smoking was banned on balconies. Reading the NCL boards at the time you'd think that the non-smokers had finally reached nirvana - finally they could book a balcony without the dreaded smoker killing them and ruining their cruise but watching the room bookings over the last 2 months there has been no up-surge in balcony bookings, in fact I'm quietly holding hope I'll get a free upgrade.

 

I knew that as soon as the balcony smoking went away the non-smoking mafia would be hitting up the casino and other parts of the ship, it was only a matter of time. There's no pleasing them. Smoking on balconies is NOT an issue for the non-smoker next door, sorry. They may think it is and they may actually insist that it is, but it isn't. To get a whiff of a smoke on a balcony as the ship sails along at 20 knots is just that, a whiff. I've been on almost 20 cruises, many with a balcony and I can honestly say I've never spotted this elusive chain smoker who puffed volumes of second hand smoke directly into the other balcony. I would think they'd rather be up on deck or in the casino. Never made sense to me that they'd sit there for the entire cruise and smoke. Now, if you want to argue its a safety thing then yes, I agree moving smoking from the balconies because they pose a fire risk is a move I can support.

 

As long as ships provide areas for people to go and have a smoke then us non-smokers can choose to avoid those areas. Just mind our own business and allow the smokers to do likewise.

[Starry Eyes]

First a caveat - I don't smoke.

 

Lets assume that the often quoted figure of 20% of the people smoke is accurate. Its not as easy to pluck the numbers out and say, well we'll please 80% of the people if we have a 100% smoke free ship. Not true. If you drive smokers away you also drive their non-smoking spouses away so the actual percentage of people that might elect to go elsewhere is higher than the number of people who smoke and I suspect the cruise lines know this.

 

The other thing we have to keep in mind is that non-smokers tend to be a vocal group who are hard to please. For instance, we're going on the NCL Sun soon and there's something like 35 balconies still available. I would have thought the non-smokers would have gobbled them right up after NCL's announcement in July that smoking was banned on balconies. Reading the NCL boards at the time you'd think that the non-smokers had finally reached nirvana - finally they could book a balcony without the dreaded smoker killing them and ruining their cruise but watching the room bookings over the last 2 months there has been no up-surge in balcony bookings, in fact I'm quietly holding hope I'll get a free upgrade.

 

I knew that as soon as the balcony smoking went away the non-smoking mafia would be hitting up the casino and other parts of the ship, it was only a matter of time. There's no pleasing them. Smoking on balconies is NOT an issue for the non-smoker next door, sorry. They may think it is and they may actually insist that it is, but it isn't. To get a whiff of a smoke on a balcony as the ship sails along at 20 knots is just that, a whiff. I've been on almost 20 cruises, many with a balcony and I can honestly say I've never spotted this elusive chain smoker who puffed volumes of second hand smoke directly into the other balcony. I would think they'd rather be up on deck or in the casino. Never made sense to me that they'd sit there for the entire cruise and smoke. Now, if you want to argue its a safety thing then yes, I agree moving smoking from the balconies because they pose a fire risk is a move I can support.

 

As long as ships provide areas for people to go and have a smoke then us non-smokers can choose to avoid those areas. Just mind our own business and allow the smokers to do likewise.

I agree with som and disagree with others. I one person in the party really, really wants to smoke on the balcony, the whole party might book elsewhere. I'd expand that beyond spouses. A few years ago, SIL and her DH were interested in joining us on a Panama canal cruise. Celebrity had the right cruise at the right time, but also the most restrictive smoking policy. SIL had recently quit smoking and did not relapse (yeah for her!), but had she backslid, all four of us might have chosen a different cruiseline. Now that multiple lines have added more smoking restrictions, there are few cruises left for those who really want to smoke on the balcony. Perhaps some now select land vacation, perhaps some select the few cruiseline that still allow balcony smoking, and perhaps some give up balcony smoking.

 

That cruises have unsold cabins showing in the final weeks before the cruise is unsurprising, regardless of smoking policy. Especailly fall cruises, which have slack demand (shoulder seaon and hurricane season combine to cut demand substantially). Also NCL has been assigning gty cabins late (ask me how I know!), so some of those cabins may go to gty bookings. Some may go to CAS. One cannot tell how balcony smoking restrictions have impacted booking income by citing some available cabins. One cannot even just compare one year to the last in this case; there is a bigger picture. NCL probably did not want all the dedicated balcony smokers moving from multiple other bigger lines (RCI, Carnival) to NCL to smoke on NCL balconies. Being the outlyer there would potentailly change the nonsmoker's experiences on NCL and negatively impact public perception of the brand long term. NCL, a smaller cruiselinelikely decided it could not afford such a long term risk, and followed the bigger players on the balcony smoking issue.

 

I have been on more cruises than you (>50) and I have once been substantially mpacted by smoking neighbors. Our neighbors were both chainsmokers and they often had their chainsmoking friends on the balcony with them. During most of my waking cabin hours, one (usually more) heavy smoker was on that balcony. That includes low speed sailing times, entering ports, leaving ports, and in port...not just sailing 20 knots, though I smelled smoke then, too as I was aft of the very heavy smokers. I barely used the balcony that cruise. I never said a word to them, as the smokers were then within the policy and likely booked the balcony cabins so they could socialize and smoke. So, while it has not been a horrible problem on each cruise, it has impacted me, and other more sensitive people have likely felt more impacted.

[Starry Eyes]

Ooops,please excuse the NCL references above. I've been on the NCL boards a lot for an upcoming cruise; I confused one smoking thread for another:o. Sorry.

[fred30]

I have cancelled my cruise. I am a non-smoker. Not sure why balcony smoking is not allowed while smoking in other areas including the Casino is allowed. If cigarette smoke on a moving cruise ship bothers you, I am sure the smell coming from the ships funnel has to bother you. 21% of Americans still smoke -the numbers are higher overseas according to my research. How will this policy affect the bottom line.... My letter below from corporate.

 

 

Yes, but smoking is banned from 80% of US homes. This includes some households with smokers living there.

This means most of the US doesn't like the smell of smoke or the hazards associated with it.

[Rocketlady]

Wish the ship casinos would listen to most of us to ban smoking in there. Ohio casinos and Canada casinos ban it. They can go outside and smoke there. And they are all crowded. I don't smoke but love the casinos. Casinos are going to be the last place on earth to stop it. Maybe if their employees sue them after they get cancer they will wake up.

 

We quit going to Detroit Casinos due to the smoke there. It is smokers heaven .

[nbsjcruiser]

I agree with som and disagree with others. I one person in the party really, really wants to smoke on the balcony, the whole party might book elsewhere. I'd expand that beyond spouses. A few years ago, SIL and her DH were interested in joining us on a Panama canal cruise. Celebrity had the right cruise at the right time, but also the most restrictive smoking policy. SIL had recently quit smoking and did not relapse (yeah for her!), but had she backslid, all four of us might have chosen a different cruiseline. Now that multiple lines have added more smoking restrictions, there are few cruises left for those who really want to smoke on the balcony. Perhaps some now select land vacation, perhaps some select the few cruiseline that still allow balcony smoking, and perhaps some give up balcony smoking.

 

That cruises have unsold cabins showing in the final weeks before the cruise is unsurprising, regardless of smoking policy. Especailly fall cruises, which have slack demand (shoulder seaon and hurricane season combine to cut demand substantially). Also NCL has been assigning gty cabins late (ask me how I know!), so some of those cabins may go to gty bookings. Some may go to CAS. One cannot tell how balcony smoking restrictions have impacted booking income by citing some available cabins. One cannot even just compare one year to the last in this case; there is a bigger picture. NCL probably did not want all the dedicated balcony smokers moving from multiple other bigger lines (RCI, Carnival) to NCL to smoke on NCL balconies. Being the outlyer there would potentailly change the nonsmoker's experiences on NCL and negatively impact public perception of the brand long term. NCL, a smaller cruiselinelikely decided it could not afford such a long term risk, and followed the bigger players on the balcony smoking issue.

 

I have been on more cruises than you (>50) and I have once been substantially mpacted by smoking neighbors. Our neighbors were both chainsmokers and they often had their chainsmoking friends on the balcony with them. During most of my waking cabin hours, one (usually more) heavy smoker was on that balcony. That includes low speed sailing times, entering ports, leaving ports, and in port...not just sailing 20 knots, though I smelled smoke then, too as I was aft of the very heavy smokers. I barely used the balcony that cruise. I never said a word to them, as the smokers were then within the policy and likely booked the balcony cabins so they could socialize and smoke. So, while it has not been a horrible problem on each cruise, it has impacted me, and other more sensitive people have likely felt more impacted.

 

Ncl did ban smoking on their balconies somewhat, if you pay for a haven balcony you are still allowed to smoke on them. So not a real smoking ban.

[Ocean Boy]

I resigned. Left on excellent terms. Took Several Host Cruises. :) I just think the smoking debate is an interesting issue!

 

Sounds like you might be a bit bored since you resigned.

[Starry Eyes]

Ncl did ban smoking on their balconies somewhat, if you pay for a haven balcony you are still allowed to smoke on them. So not a real smoking ban.

Are you sure smoking is allowed on all haven balconies or is it just the huge garden villa? Not that it matters to me personally, but others will care deeply.

[LetsGetWet!]

Lets assume that the often quoted figure of 20% of the people smoke is accurate. Its not as easy to pluck the numbers out and say, well we'll please 80% of the people if we have a 100% smoke free ship. Not true. If you drive smokers away you also drive their non-smoking spouses away so the actual percentage of people that might elect to go elsewhere is higher than the number of people who smoke and I suspect the cruise lines know this.

Actually, lets not assume - your analysis is flawed. The actual percentage of smoking households that might elect to go elsewhere is lower than 20%, not higher.

On Thursday night I was watching one of the national news broadcasts.

 

The reporter said that 81.8% of all American households are smoke-free.

[LetsGetWet!]

I think that paragraph speaks volumes. And to think you were in a position to be sitting in judgement of what the rest of us wrote around here.

And wondering if he got fired and came back to stir the pot....

I resigned. Left on excellent terms. Took Several Host Cruises. :) I just think the smoking debate is an interesting issue!

Based on your "contributions" (and I use the word loosely) in this thread, I'm not sure I believe that. But I understand, if I had gotten fired, or been asked to leave - I might be tempted to claim that I "resigned on excellent terms" too. :rolleyes:

[north 40 girl]

And I thought this was going to be a thread about scattering someone's remains at sea....:rolleyes:

 

Ha! Ha! I did too!

[nbsjcruiser]

Are you sure smoking is allowed on all haven balconies or is it just the huge garden villa? Not that it matters to me personally, but others will care deeply.

 

I emailed NCL and they told me that.

[nbsjcruiser]

Actually, lets not assume - your analysis is flawed. The actual percentage of smoking households that might elect to go elsewhere is lower than 20%, not higher.

 

Did you take into account that other couples that might cruise with the smoker. I know a number of couples that vacation together. When the rule on balcony smoking came into effect they all decided to try AI because most did not care if they cruised or not. So to get a true picture you have to take that into consideration.