When does ncl 'take over'

[ORV]

Agree about getting the best deal. In terms of Oceania and Regent air, our experience has been that Oceania air is more expensive (considerably so) to upgrade to business class. And, we were unable to use an airline on Oceania that was available on Regent (which resulted in a cancelled booking).

 

To posters referring to Celebrity, a very dear friend dumped Celebrity because so many things are simply "not what they used to be".

 

Since you brought up the subject of Celebrity, we just got back from 2 weeks on one of their ships. Perhaps I never sailed with them back in the great "used to be" that people are always referring to(started in 2010) but our experience was pretty much on par with what it's been for the past 4 years. It is what it is, a real good mass market cruise line. It's not Oceania, Regent or any of the other top end lines. In our opinion the "sky is not falling" at Celebrity.

 

Hijack over.

[hypercafe]

We are taking a trip on Celebrity SF to FL in Aqua class. We are Elite so we get Internet and laundry. We got free drink package and tips. The same trip in a similar room is 5K more on O and 10k more on Crystal. You really have to decide how you want to spend your money and what a trip on different lines is worth to you.

[Caroldoll]

My friend is Travelcat, and I was the one...we have over 20 cruises on Celebrity, but I must say the last one was in 2011. I felt that it was not near as good as it had been prior. We had four of the top suites (took our adult children) and personally I resented paying for water in the top suite. Then there were the specialty restaurants, only two (we were on an M Class) and what we had to pay each night in the specialty charge was over the top in my opinion. I didn't like the experience or the food as much as prior. In fairness I understand that it has changed insofar as some of the nickel and dime things that I felt irritated with. I recently booked another cruise with them, and when you factored in the "extras" it figured out higher than Oceania. I am sure all of this changes with the suite you get.

 

We are quite content with Oceania at the present time and tend to want to remain with them. We have 10 cruises with Norwegian...all good, so we are not at all afraid of the changes.

[hypercafe]

I always wondered why anyone would pay the price for a " Top Suite" on any mass market line. I look at it like real estate, I would rather have the cheap house in a upscale place than the most expensive in a cheap place. There are plenty of really upscale lines if you want to pay the money. The highest rated ship, Europa2 starts at around 700pp per day.

 

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Edited October 28, 2014 by hypercafe

[Rotterdam]

anyone that had cruised on Regent & Oceania will certainly see changes much like people that sailed on HAL, Seabourn, Cunard etc before Carnivore Corp took over.

 

We had sailed on HAL & Cunard for years(since the 1970's) gave up on HAL completely a couple of years ago(4* Mariners) & only sail QM2 for transport purposes. too bad.

 

Anything that was truly special will be watered down - the business may of changed in the last few years but there is no reason for the blandness set across the board while these companies are making record profits.

 

And these thousands & thousands of people being sold this "luxury cruise concept" have no idea what true luxury is about!

[Travelcat2]

anyone that had cruised on Regent & Oceania will certainly see changes much like people that sailed on HAL, Seabourn, Cunard etc before Carnivore Corp took over.

 

We had sailed on HAL & Cunard for years(since the 1970's) gave up on HAL completely a couple of years ago(4* Mariners) & only sail QM2 for transport purposes. too bad.

 

Anything that was truly special will be watered down - the business may of changed in the last few years but there is no reason for the blandness set across the board while these companies are making record profits.

 

And these thousands & thousands of people being sold this "luxury cruise concept" have no idea what true luxury is about!

 

IMO, this is not "sad news". Apollo remains the major stockholder in the cruise lines and have stated to the crew and officers that nothing will change in the foreseeable future. If it does, they will lose hundreds of thousands of customers - definitely not in their best interest.

 

The unfortunate part is that, also IMO, you will not find another "luxury lite" cruise line that is better than Oceania or a "luxury" line that is better than Regent. Even Silversea (privately owned) has downgraded over the past 5-7 years. I look at this the same way as I look as our lives. Many things have increased in price and the services are not necessarily better. In many cases, there have been cuts. The cost of food has increased - yet, the food isn't better than it was a few years ago.

 

For better or worse, change is inevitable. Rather than being upset, we have taken a wait and see attitude. If Oceania and/or Regent no longer meet our expectations, we will have no problem with not cruising and looking for alternative vacation options.

[Tarpeian Rock]

anyone that had cruised on Regent & Oceania will certainly see changes much like people that sailed on HAL, Seabourn, Cunard etc before Carnivore Corp took over.

 

We had sailed on HAL & Cunard for years(since the 1970's) gave up on HAL completely a couple of years ago(4* Mariners) & only sail QM2 for transport purposes. too bad.

 

Anything that was truly special will be watered down - the business may of changed in the last few years but there is no reason for the blandness set across the board while these companies are making record profits.

 

And these thousands & thousands of people being sold this "luxury cruise concept" have no idea what true luxury is about!

 

 

 

Certainly those of us who have gone over to O can hope that things turn out better, but the "happy talk" that inevitably surrounds mergers & acquisitions rarely turns out to be totally true.

 

On the other hand, Norwegian's now 3 lines have pretty distinct identities and demographics - certainly O and Regent as differentiated from Norwegian, and within those two, all-inclusive & suites vs. non. I think one problem with HAL in Carnival Corp's clutches was that HAL and Princess serve essentially the same market and don't represent a progression up the market scale, mostly cosmetic differences. Thinking of what General Motors did with Pontiac and Oldsmobile, I find myself wondering if HAL isn't Carnival's Oldsmobile.

[Mura]

I'm not hyperventilating over the NCL takeover, at least not yet. But if Oceania gets downgraded we probably will leave. I'm not sure at all (as of today) that we could find an adequate replacement.

 

We've always done private touring on our own, but now that we are in the geriatric class cruising is a preferred method of travel. Not all of the time, just more of the time.

 

So we will have to see. We've had a very few cruises on NCL that were satisfactory as long as we were in one of their upper suites (not Haven, but just below). But in general it's not a line I would prefer to use.

 

I'm still hoping that they will leave O and R alone. That remains to be seen.

 

There's plenty of time.

 

Mura

[PaulMCO]

One common thing that O and NCL have - are equally bad IT departments. Every time they make a small Web change or introduce their new Itins the site goes down.. NCL web site was down this weekend and still has issues. They have to manually enter all new bookings from the weekend ...

 

So here it will not get better :D

 

 

On the other hand, Norwegian's now 3 lines have pretty distinct identities and demographics - certainly O and Regent as differentiated from Norwegian, and within those two, all-inclusive & suites vs. non. I think one problem with HAL in Carnival Corp's clutches was that HAL and Princess serve essentially the same market and don't represent a progression up the market scale, mostly cosmetic differences. Thinking of what General Motors did with Pontiac and Oldsmobile, I find myself wondering if HAL isn't Carnival's Oldsmobile.

 

So where does that leave O?? O is essentially NCL with smaller ships, older clientele and more upscale food. If you book a Haven suite for less money an eat in the specialties -- you have "O" - butler, concierge, and good food. It will be interesting to see where NCL takes them.

 

As you pointed out C really screwed up HAL. But The problem with HAL is that since C took them over there has been little investment in the ships or the product. They do not disparaging call the Rotterdam -- "the Rottendam" for no reason.

Edited October 29, 2014 by PaulMCO

[hypercafe]

I think this HAL thing is off base. HAL was going out of business when Carnival bought them and their clients then and now were the older crowd. NCL is buying a going cruise line.

 

 

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[StanandJim]

But The problem with HAL is that since C took them over there has been little investment in the ships or the product.

 

You couldn't be more wrong, Paul. When Carnival took over Holland America, the HAL fleet consisted of three smallish ships, the 38000 ton Rotterdam of 1959 and the twin 34000 ton "N Ships", the Noordam of 1984 and the Nieuw Amsterdam of 1983.

 

Today, thanks to the giant influx of Carnival Capitol since 1989, HAL operates 15 ships, and all except one of them sleeps just as many passengers as that original three ship fleet.

 

I certainly dislike the direction in which Carnival has taken HAL, but the truth is that Carnival has made a massive investment in their ships and their equipment from day one of the takeover.

[Rotterdam]

just because there is investment in a product dies not mean the product has maintained its quality or its been improved - I would rather spend all of my cruise time on Rotterdam V than these floating non descript Malls that are being put out today by Carnivore & NCL along with other lines.

 

The old HAL did have its problems but w/ the correct management & investments they could of gone on - much like the old Cunard, French Line, Sitmar. After 50+ cruises & crossings I've basically given up on travel by ship. The last time we were on a HAL ship was a few years ago on the Veendam after a refit where the aft pool was replaced with a splash puddle so more cabins could be built into the deck below - you know what its like to be in a semi tropical climate w/ only one pool & extra passengers???? - not fun believe me. The crew to passenger ratio has basically been halved -s o the poor crew works 3 x as hard & the passengers get half. And if you read about the maintainance of the ships where there are problems from plumbing, electrical and other basics & then to see the ships are just redeployed to another branch of Carnivore - its ridiculous.

 

Again - how can one expect much when someone can get on a ship today for less than $100 a day per person. Some people describe the ships of today as floating malls - there are more akin to floating trailer parks.

What once was a first class & elegant & very special way to travel is now brought to a very common level w/ smoke & mirrors. That's business today - Donald Trump did it in NYC w/ his buildings...so it goes to sea.

 

Anyone else that sailed a ship of state or an OCEAN LINER knows the difference in quality rom just a couple of years ago...its too bad - but at least there are other ways to see this world.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong, Paul. When Carnival took over Holland America, the HAL fleet consisted of three smallish ships, the 38000 ton Rotterdam of 1959 and the twin 34000 ton "N Ships", the Noordam of 1984 and the Nieuw Amsterdam of 1983.

 

Today, thanks to the giant influx of Carnival Capitol since 1989, HAL operates 15 ships, and all except one of them sleeps just as many passengers as that original three ship fleet.

 

I certainly dislike the direction in which Carnival has taken HAL, but the truth is that Carnival has made a massive investment in their ships and their equipment from day one of the takeover.

[smilin jack]

Our first cruise was on the Norway in 1980. At one time the Norway was the ocean liner Ile de France. We loved that cruise.

 

We cruised on a number of different lines.

 

Then we found the cruise line Radisson seven seas, and cruised a number of times on the Mariner.

 

Then we found the Yachts of Seabourn and cruised them a number of times. Our first cruise on Oceania was on the Marina with 1200 people. I decided that was too many people.

 

Our next cruise will be on the Insignia in December, and am looking forward to the small ships of Oceania.

 

We have decided that 700 people is the most we want on a cruise ship....so it seems that the criteria that we look at is how intimate the ship is.

 

One of our cruises was on HAL's Prinsendam for 40 days, and we had room #1...it was a great cruise. (Prinsendam carry's around 700)

[Cruise Junky]

I think the reality is HAL wouldn't be In business right now if it weren't for Carnival

 

 

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[StanandJim]

Our first cruise was on the Norway in 1980. At one time the Norway was the ocean liner Ile de France.

So as to not confuse the uninitiated, the Norway (above) was a reincarnation of the France of 1960 (below).

The Isle de France (below) was a much older and entirely different ship.

[StanandJim]

-and if I'd had the correct eyeglasses on, I could have seen that the last photograph in my previous post was the Liberte (yet another French Line ship).

 

This is the Isle de France, as she was built in 1926, with three funnels

and then, a second photograph, as she appeared after the war with a more streamlined set of two

[smilin jack]

I love pictures.....Here is a picture of the Norway when we were on it.

 

 

And here is a picture of Bonnie with the two LST's on the bow of the Norway in 1980.

 

[smilin jack]

And while I am at it....here is a picture of me on the Norway in 1980...

 

 

And Bonnie in our Jr. Suite.....

 

 

 

Thanks Stan and Jim for your pictures......

[kimanjo]

Those last two pictures just made my morning!

 

Thanks!!!

[Rotterdam]

AS someone pointed out you were on the refurbished FRANCE when you sailed NORWAY - which was a cash a cash cow for NCL - the initial designer

for NORWAY was Donghia - and he did a fantastic job of reinventing a 1960's 2 class transatlantic liner into a modern cruise ship.

 

The France was the French Lines competitor to QE2. She was a bit of a roller but spectacular - we were on it in the 1970's. Then in the 1980's we were on it as the NORWAY....she was great until they added the additional decks which ruined her profile & added more cabins & More passengers...the downhill trend of NCL

 

At one point the first Class restaurant on the France was titled the best restaurant in the world!

 

 

 

 

Our first cruise was on the Norway in 1980. At one time the Norway was the ocean liner Ile de France. We loved that cruise.

 

We cruised on a number of different lines.

 

Then we found the cruise line Radisson seven seas, and cruised a number of times on the Mariner.

 

Then we found the Yachts of Seabourn and cruised them a number of times. Our first cruise on Oceania was on the Marina with 1200 people. I decided that was too many people.

 

Our next cruise will be on the Insignia in December, and am looking forward to the small ships of Oceania.

 

We have decided that 700 people is the most we want on a cruise ship....so it seems that the criteria that we look at is how intimate the ship is.

 

One of our cruises was on HAL's Prinsendam for 40 days, and we had room #1...it was a great cruise. (Prinsendam carry's around 700)