Out of control dog on the Amsterdam

[Windsailer]

Do people often bring Facebook posts here to CC?

Why?

I avoid reading HAL's Facebook page and it's fine by me if I don't read excerpts here. :)

 

 

Yes, it's been done in the past. I specifically remember posts about the abrupt change in the wine policy. I think it's helpful to post information from whatever source that's related to HAL ships.

[sapper1]

WOW!!!

 

I am in shock at what the FB poster and their fellow passengers and the crew are all having to go through on their cruise..............

 

I do not doubt for a second and can only pray that the Captain will act and have this passenger put off the ship ASAP.

 

I remember reading a year ago or so about an older couple being put off a ship (I think it was a HAL ship) at a Canadian Port (Northeastern Cruise, Boston to Quebec or Montreal and return, I think) because of the womans rudeness and behavior while aboard ship, so I know they will do so.

 

Hiding behind the ADA does not mean that anyone can get away with what the passenger describes. I just cannot understand how that obnoxious passenger can have a valid Service Dog Certificate for a dog that behaves as described.

 

My suggestion for anyone who encounters such as this is to report it immediately and then when back home, send an email and snail mail not only to HAL Headquarters in Seattle, but also the ADA Home at http://www.ada.gov/ I'm sure there has to be a Contact us type of form or.... and report what sounds to me as a Phony Document and use of it. Hope that makes sense. It sure sounds as if this woman has a phony Certificate and if so there are some pretty hefty fines and might even be jail time for the use of it. It is just to easy these days to phony up...........

 

I pray I never have to go through anything near what those passengers have........

 

Joanie

 

IRL_Joanie, I found the incident you were referring to. It was not a HAL ship. It was the Queen Mary 2. I remember it being discussed at length on CC. :)

 

http://gadling.com/2010/10/05/obscenities-and-ethnic-slurs-fly-on-queen-mary-2-get-old-people/

[PathfinderEss]

From HALs Facebook page - anyone else heard of this?

 

"We are currently on The MS Amsterdam and there has been a chronic problem. Wake up HAL legal staff and do something. A woman is aboard with a supposed service dog. However, the woman has left the ship at most ports for up to 12 hours without the dog. If she can do this why does this dog, which has pooped in many rooms on the ship including the Queens Lounge and the restaurant have to come to the food area. The lady has so abused everyone on board from staff and crew by threatening with her ADA certificate, The staff is complying because of her threats, but the dog has broken countless rules as defined by the ADA including barking during performances, lunging at other passengers, waking neighbors with its barking, being paraded throughout the ship in fancy costumes. The owner has broken many of the proper behavior rules including throwing her drink in her husband's face, yet nothing is done because she threatens and hides behind the ADA. HAL, get your legal team to learn your rights and the rights of the other passengers. We have sailed with this craziness for almost 78 days and have all witnessed her abuse. HAL's failure to address this problem has us new to the brand and many 4 and 5 Star Mariners questioning future cruises with this line."

 

We were on the Amsterdam for the first 26 days of this cruise. We know of the dog and the folks traveling with the dog. While we were on board we witnessed none of the rude behavior described.

 

True, the couple went on shorex without the dog - mostly due to fears that local immigration would get in the way of the dog being able to re board the ship. The owners did quite a bit of pre-cruise research. We spoke to the owners while they were on shore (sans dog).

 

It was not unusual to see HAL staff around the ship with the dog happily following along. It was my impression that the staff were quite anxious to spend time with the animal.

 

That being said - we were only on board for 26 days and at that did not spend much time around the dog and it's owners. I have no way of knowing if the situation deteriorated. I can only say that we observed none of the described negative behaviors.

 

Could there be a bigger discrepancies between these two post. I've been on board many cruises where there were service dogs and never seen the kind of behavior that the first post described. Most the time if you were even paying attention, these dogs tend to be very inconspicuous. I'm not buying that a dog that was well behaved for 26 days of Arzz cruise, turned into being a bad dog after Arzz left.

[Lizzie68]

We were on the Amsterdam for the first 26 days of this cruise. We know of the dog and the folks traveling with the dog. While we were on board we witnessed none of the rude behavior described.

 

True, the couple went on shorex without the dog - mostly due to fears that local immigration would get in the way of the dog being able to re board the ship. The owners did quite a bit of pre-cruise research. We spoke to the owners while they were on shore (sans dog).

 

It was not unusual to see HAL staff around the ship with the dog happily following along. It was my impression that the staff were quite anxious to spend time with the animal.

 

That being said - we were only on board for 26 days and at that did not spend much time around the dog and it's owners. I have no way of knowing if the situation deteriorated. I can only say that we observed none of the described negative behaviors.

 

I don't doubt you at all, arzz - but the section I bolded puzzles me. There were two (large) service dogs on our last cruise, both of which went ashore at every port with their handler. So I wonder if this particular dog owner had not had the rabies shot done, or something similar, that is required. Usually, a service dog has to be with it's owner at all times - how did they manage on shore without it?

[arzz]

On shore the woman was in a wheelchair. No idea as to why or what their issues were. She said that the dog had its own immigration papers.

 

As to why the dog was not taken ashore, or the real issues - I am as clueless as anyone else. I was just repeating what I was told and what I saw - which was certainly not everything. I was on board for my own vacation, not to watch a service dog.

 

I will say, however, that every time I have been on board a ship with a service animal I have heard a lot of buzz from folks who doubt the authenticity of the animal. I heard no buzz, however, on any negative behaviors from this animal during the time I was on board. That does not guarantee that those behaviors did not occur. I just have no knowledge of them.

[doublebzz]

I'm not buying that a dog that was well behaved for 26 days of Arzz cruise, turned into being a bad dog after Arzz left.

 

I don't think its really that odd. My wife and I were on a 45 day Grand Asia cruise a couple of years back. She was a perfect angel the first month; then turned into a "bull dog" the last 15 days.

[TiogaCruiser]

I don't think its really that odd. My wife and I were on a 45 day Grand Asia cruise a couple of years back. She was a perfect angel the first month; then turned into a "bull dog" the last 15 days.

 

Oh my. I sure hope you aren't expecting a special dinner with all the trimmings today.

[CowPrincess]

It is possible that both the person who posted on FB and arzz are reporting accurately. The service dog may have developed a health issue which is causing the behaviour that is being reported now. It seems that the Amsterdam is somewhere currently "at sea" on a rather long voyage. The people who have the dog may not have been able to find veterinary care, and may be trying to manage the best they can.

[Windsailer]

Or it may be two separate dogs.

[kazu]

IRL_Joanie, I found the incident you were referring to. It was not a HAL ship. It was the Queen Mary 2. I remember it being discussed at length on CC. :)

 

http://gadling.com/2010/10/05/obscenities-and-ethnic-slurs-fly-on-queen-mary-2-get-old-people/

 

I remember that - nothing to do with dogs at all - just plain bad behaviour.

 

It is possible that both the person who posted on FB and arzz are reporting accurately. The service dog may have developed a health issue which is causing the behaviour that is being reported now. It seems that the Amsterdam is somewhere currently "at sea" on a rather long voyage. The people who have the dog may not have been able to find veterinary care, and may be trying to manage the best they can.

 

very true, might have been a health issue and might have been that they left the dog alone too long when they went ashore. That stuff plays havoc

 

I leave my dogs here and pay a hefty price to do it, but I know they are well cared for and happy when I get them.

 

I am still having a hard time understanding how this dog is a service dog. Any owner of a service dog treats their dog with respect as does any good owner of a dog and that includes not leaving them for an unreasonable amount of time including and especially on a cruise ship.

[Windsailer]

And I'm having a hard time understanding why the staff is taking care of the dog....whether or not they seem to be happy to do it.

 

This is from the HAL website:

 

"If you choose to disembark the ship in a visiting port of call, in which your service dog does not have the required documents, or you choose to leave your service dog onboard. You must make arrangements for the care of your dog. Our ships staff cannot care for the dog, nor can the dog be left in the stateroom unattended." (Highlight mine)

Edited November 27, 2014 by Windsailer
More information provided

[CowPrincess]

Or it may be two separate dogs.

 

That would be the simplest explanation wouldn't it? :D

[CowPrincess]

I remember that - nothing to do with dogs at all - just plain bad behaviour.

 

 

 

very true, might have been a health issue and might have been that they left the dog alone too long when they went ashore. That stuff plays havoc

 

I leave my dogs here and pay a hefty price to do it, but I know they are well cared for and happy when I get them.

 

I am still having a hard time understanding how this dog is a service dog. Any owner of a service dog treats their dog with respect as does any good owner of a dog and that includes not leaving them for an unreasonable amount of time including and especially on a cruise ship.

 

I re-read the original post that quoted from Facebook. It really does sound as though the woman has the problem, not the dog has the problem ;) I suspect the crew is doing what they can to manage a difficult situation.

 

If this truly is a service dog, we can only hope there's some sort of intervention from whatever agency she got the dog from.

[thinfool]

Pardon my ignorance, but how can anyone wave an ADA certificate at any official onboard a foreign (non-US) ship?

 

AFAIK, the ADA has no standing away from the US.

 

It seems to me that someone with a handicap, service dog or other malady covered by the ADA is benefiting from the goodwill of the cruise line that accommodates that person and their accompanying handicap rather than compliance with regulations written for US inhabitants.

[kazu]

I re-read the original post that quoted from Facebook. It really does sound as though the woman has the problem, not the dog has the problem ;) I suspect the crew is doing what they can to manage a difficult situation.

 

If this truly is a service dog, we can only hope there's some sort of intervention from whatever agency she got the dog from.

 

so agree. most problems are the owners not the dogs .

 

Pardon my ignorance, but how can anyone wave an ADA certificate at any official onboard a foreign (non-US) ship?

 

AFAIK, the ADA has no standing away from the US.

 

It seems to me that someone with a handicap, service dog or other malady covered by the ADA is benefiting from the goodwill of the cruise line that accommodates that person and their accompanying handicap rather than compliance with regulations written for US inhabitants.

 

no worries about asking.

 

Service dogs are respected world wide and they are accepted.

 

There are very specific rules on them and I think it was posted a few back by Peter.

 

In any case cruise lines have no choice but to accept TRUE service dogs. and they do. and they should.

 

But no one should take a dog on a cruise that is not up to it. It's just not fair.

[dateacher]

Unfortunately, you can now get Service Dog papers on the internet without showing any proof of need. You are not allowed to question a person as long as they have the required documents so anyone can say they have a legitimate service dog. That would explain why the person and the dog to not follow the rules and regs of true service dogs.

[Wakepatrol]

The dog is also smoking on the balcony

 

 

[Lizzie68]

I don't think its really that odd. My wife and I were on a 45 day Grand Asia cruise a couple of years back. She was a perfect angel the first month; then turned into a "bull dog" the last 15 days.

 

You are so bad!:D

[durangoscots]

It may be that the dog is stressed from the cruise.... that is a long one.... and it certainly sounds as if the owner is stressed.

 

Susan

[Shmoo here]

It may be that the dog is stressed from the cruise.... that is a long one.... and it certainly sounds as if the owner is stressed.

 

Susan

 

I'm curious as to whether the owner has taken the dog on previous cruises. Maybe the dog gets seasick.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

We were on the Amsterdam for the first 26 days of this cruise. We know of the dog and the folks traveling with the dog. While we were on board we witnessed none of the rude behavior described.

 

True, the couple went on shorex without the dog - mostly due to fears that local immigration would get in the way of the dog being able to re board the ship. The owners did quite a bit of pre-cruise research. We spoke to the owners while they were on shore (sans dog).

 

It was not unusual to see HAL staff around the ship with the dog happily following along. It was my impression that the staff were quite anxious to spend time with the animal.

 

That being said - we were only on board for 26 days and at that did not spend much time around the dog and it's owners. I have no way of knowing if the situation deteriorated. I can only say that we observed none of the described negative behaviors.

mostly due to fears that local immigration I understand that ..

[Trevor Fountain]

The dog is also smoking on the balcony

 

 

I believe that is the Captain who may in fact be related to the Dog. This may explain why HAL are being so tolerant over this situation.

Maybe it's the woof sea that's upsetting the dog.

[sapper1]

I am loving this thread. You just never know what sort of issue will pop up on CC. It really is a form of cyber people watching and just when you think you have seen it all------------

[hal lover]

I believe that is the Captain who may in fact be related to the Dog. This may explain why HAL are being so tolerant over this situation.

Maybe it's the woof sea that's upsetting the dog.

 

ROTFLMAO!!! This stuff is too good!

[serendipity1499]

It's too easy to get a fake service dog certificate these days and according to ADA rules, no one is supposed to ask what your disability is if you say the dog is a service dog. (Not sure how that works on a ship before boarding.)

 

Unfortunately, this can not be a real service dog. They are trained not to bark, to be obedient and not to poop all over the ship. I hope HAL is paying attention. They are probably afraid to do anything because they're not sure if the ADA is really involved here in what seems to be a fake service dog with a certificate you can get off the net. I can not see how this can be a real service dog if they leave it on the ship while in port.

 

It sounds like an awful situation.

 

I have a Therapy dog (not a Service Dog) & this thread was discussed yesterday at dinner with another Therapy Dog Handler & other Friends who live in a Condo.. Another Handler in Therapy Dogs with us, also trains Puppies for two years to become a service dog for the South Eastern Guide Dogs. Those puppies are taken into many different situations & most of them are also trained not to bark unless they will be given to someone who also needs a dog to alert them of a life threatening problem.. It's amazing because they are even trained to go to the Bathroom at certain times.. HAL also sets up a place for the dog to do his/her business in an obscure corner of the promenade deck.. All our Friend says to the dog is "Buisy" & the dog goes..:)

 

Another couple mentioned they have a service dog in their complex... One day the dog was left inside & would not stop barking while it's handler was outside weeding her garden.. The handler was so busy, that she failed to realize the dog was warning her of an impending seizure.. Instead of going back into her apartment she had a seizure & collapsed outside.. That dog was trained to bark.. We could not figure out how that dog could recognize an impending seizure while in the house..

 

Our Puppy raiser friend took one of the Pups on board a 7 day HAL cruise for training, but had to leave the Pup in her Cabin while out on tour in several ports, because the Pup did not have the proper papers to disembark in all ports..

 

I don't think its really that odd. My wife and I were on a 45 day Grand Asia cruise a couple of years back. She was a perfect angel the first month; then turned into a "bull dog" the last 15 days.

 

I really wonder if you got a Thanksgiving dinner yesterday or did your "better half" just toss you a chewed up bone?:D:D

 

Thanks for the laugh & Happy Belated Thanksgiving to all.. LOL

Edited November 28, 2014 by serendipity1499