Formal night...another way of Holland America getting cheaper?

[oaktreerb]

We are long time RCI cruisers, with all the upper tier perks, but HAL has some itineraries that are super interesting. The Formal night issue is what keeps us from using HAL. We dress modern and classy for our age, but never formal. I might bring a jacket but not a suit and no ties.

I respect the cruisers who want to carry on a tradition, but after reading many posts on this site, it discourages me from booking HAL. As I refuse to eat in the nightly buffet or other non formal venues on a cruise ship.

 

I wish, even RCI, would just call it dress up night, and enforce just basic wearable, which most cruise lines have in place.

 

HAL has evolved formal into more of a dress up night. For men a suit or sport coat with nice trousers, long sleeve dress shirt, and tie work nicely for many. For women a black long skirt, a sparkly top, some sparkly jewelry, nice shoes are fine. There is no requirement to change the wardrobe for each formal night. Most people won't notice if you dress the same.

 

For women packing for formal night is much easier as the clothing is less bulky with the newer fabrics of today. For men the shoes take up so much space but a nice pair of black comfy shoes (like SAS) can work for dinner even on formal night and around the ship.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

:confused: I guess I cannot understand why some of those that are worried about losing Formal night are so against those that do not want to have it required. In the past 8 months I did two NCL cruises both cruises had plenty of people wearing formal wear on the night that was a Dress up night. As a matter of fact I counted at least 10 men in passing wearing a Tux and several women wearing long gowns. It is Optional to dress up if you like on NCL but if am not not dressed Formal I am not denied entry into a restaurant, show nor do I feel out of place and looked down upon badly not being dressed up. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from dressing Formal if HAL was to eliminate this. Or is it that you are afraid you may also enjoy not having to dress up? :D On our last cruise we saw many couples very dressed up and also out dancing. No one felt out of place. I think it is wonderful if you enjoy the dress up thing and it makes you feel good about yourself. But seriously I really no longer want to do that. I guess I cannot understand why, I am not out to impress anyone. I already feel good about myself, dressing up does not make me feel better.

:rolleyes: This could be another perfect example of why HAL is having such a hard time selling their cruises, people talk with their wallet.

[iancal]

Our only wish for HAL on formal nights would be to make the alternative dining venue casual AND keep the Lido open for at least an hour longer. That would go a long way to making the ships a little more attractive to those who prefer an alternative.

 

We don't really care about the MDR any more.

Edited December 14, 2014 by iancal

[oaktreerb]

The combination of the MDR noise level, the slow service, and the declining quality of the food and the food preparation have eroded the experience for us.

 

These, combined with our unwillingness to pack clothes for a few nights out of an extended land trip and cruise have erased any desire that we had to attend the events.

 

But for those who do enjoy it, I do not think that it is a cost savings for the cruise line...perhaps even the opposite. From what we can see, the formal evening menu items can hardly 'stretch' the cruise line per diem food budget. I would suspect the cruise line sells less wine, fewer pre dinner drinks, and fewer photos when they delete a formal evening from the cruise.

 

I have not seen a decline in the quality of the food in the MDR. I have changed my selections, however. On my last cruise on the Veendam the food was excellent.

 

I agree with you that HAL probably profits from formal night with drinks and photos if people feel like it is a festive and special night.

 

I hope they don't cut back on formal nights. They used to have a special menu that we could take home with us or a chef's hat or glow sticks. While at the time I thought the chef's hat and glow sticks were silly, now I look back on them fondly! Do they still drape the chairs???? That is one thing I could do without and it must be costly.

Edited December 14, 2014 by oaktreerb

[cayman09]

Fifteen years ago I wore a three piece suit & tie to work, now it's open collar & golf pants at the same company. Times change. A company has to be flexible enough to change with the times or die with their old customers.

[cbr663]

My guess is that cancelling a formal night actually costs HAL revenue. I would think that formal nights result in an increase in bar revenues, dry cleaning, flowers, spa, on-board shops, and of course, photography.

[serendipity1499]

I disagree with Ruth and agree with Ine, packing "Formal" wear is heavier, with Formal wear, there is always that extra pair of shoes possibly two to match the dresses, also several of what I consider my formal clothes are heavier with jeweled and beaded clothing. Then there is the extra jewelry I bring. Then next is Tom, there is the Tux, in additional to that is his tux shoes, shirts and vests and the items that goes with the tux such as the button things on his tux shirt. My last two cruises were on NCL our luggage was the lightest it has even been and the easiest to pack. In all honesty I am dreading packing for our HAL Volendam cruise in May. After all these years of cruises frankly I am done with "Formal Night" and wish HAL would give it up as well.

To me doing a 49 day cruise would be bad enough to pack for but to plan for 8 Formal nights. :eek: Granted at one point I would have to repeat a dress or two But to me that is just more to pack. Many Many times what I wear during the day looks quite nice to wear for evening as well so NO I do not pack or wear something different at night.

 

I agree with you Lisa.. For our 68 day cruise last year We took DH's suit as well as his Tux & his sport jacket.. The changes of shoes & purses to match our formal outfits are heavy..After almost two months of dressing in formal clothes one night DH said I'm tired of this! That night we opted to forgo the MDR & eat in the Lido..

 

Fortunately, we live close to the port & HAL also shipped most of our bags to & from the port, so I could still was able to do my usual packing of 4 large bags :eek::eek: & two carryons..:D

[sail7seas]

I predict that the days of the traditional MDR and "formal nights"are numbered. I think that what P&O is doing with the two HAL ships will be way of the future. NCL and RCCL are already heading in that direction with new builds. P&O is closing up the big open area in the center and changing it to multiple venues on two decks.

 

More "smaller" restaurants. more choice on types of food, and I'm sure more of them will be surcharge restaurants. Perhaps one or two with "formal" dress.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the Lido is the only "included" dining option- everything else surcharge or a' la carte dining.

 

 

I so agree with you. I have been saying for several years the days of included meals in MDR are coming to an end. I rather think I welcome it. After so many years of doing things the same way, this is a change I think is more current with the times and lots of vacationers' wishes.

 

We've become societies of enjoying lots of choices and little regimentation. We want to what we want when we want, we want to choose what variety cuisine appeals to us at a given time and want plenty to choose from. I don't think that's all bad.

 

As a newcomer to sailing solo, I'm not sure how it will work for those traveling solo but even if I still had my DH, I would be in favor of dividing up the MDR in some fashion such as you mention. Logistics must be difficult to work out for an existing ship. For a new build, it likely would be easier to

design for multiple galleys etc

 

Our last cruises, DH, who always wore tuxedo on formal nights, had stopped wearing formal wear and had switched to suit/jacket and tie. I no longer carried long gowns and now wear cocktail dresses. When HAL chose to no longer to define formal as more than jacket and tie, we took them at their word. So few people actually dress formal on the ships anymore.

 

[nana51]

I think they definitely saved a lot of money on our recent 42-day cruise on Maasdam - we had only 6 formal nights, and they also managed to have them on the same nights as the Cellar Master's dinners or Le Cirque, so the passengers who attended those dinners missed the formal night dinners. I had lobster and steak only once, another night they had lobster thermidor, which had something like 3 bites of lobster in a mass of sauce. I don't remember seeing escargots ever, but they might have served them on nights we were dining elsewhere. The menu seems to have been reduced as well on ordinary nights, with the three "every day" items lumped with two vegetarian dishes and perhaps another three choices. After one try of the "every day" steak, we never ate it again. Quite tough and tasteless. The salmon was good when cooked properly. We found we ate more dinners in the Lido than ever before, and many times the open seating dining room was half empty - or half full, if you look at it that way!:)

 

 

I, like you, love a good steak. Unfortunately the steak on the "everyday menus" is pretty bad. I like plain simple food, but cooked perfectly. Disappointing when they have so many odd selections I don't care for.

[RuthC]

:Or is it that you are afraid you may also enjoy not having to dress up? :D

LOL! Good one. That has got to be the funniest thing I have read on this thread!

Good thing you have the grin icon there, or I would have thought you actually meant that!

[north29]

Some reasonable answers. I posted above that HAL's perceived dress code keeps me from booking cruises with them.

As said, I respect the people who like to dress formally. I do think one of the new RC ships has a dining venue that will be only Formal or at least close to that. I believe that would be a great Idea for most cruise lines to create a venue/area in the MDR for formal night where people could opt for that area all or part of the time. Many younger people not just older people like to dress to the nines so no age discrimination can be perceived.

I do see that dress in the work place, church, etc has changes reflecting changes need by cruise lines as to what they and cruisers expect. Yes there will always be formal event in communities, but not many of us, even retired and working professional will be in these.

 

I see no reason why I should not have a great dining experience on the ship with reasonable dress, modern/classy but not formal. No buffet for us, I really do not like buffets any way.

[boulders]

:confused: I guess I cannot understand why some of those that are worried about losing Formal night are so against those that do not want to have it required. In the past 8 months I did two NCL cruises both cruises had plenty of people wearing formal wear on the night that was a Dress up night. As a matter of fact I counted at least 10 men in passing wearing a Tux and several women wearing long gowns. It is Optional to dress up if you like on NCL but if am not not dressed Formal I am not denied entry into a restaurant, show nor do I feel out of place and looked down upon badly not being dressed up. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from dressing Formal if HAL was to eliminate this. Or is it that you are afraid you may also enjoy not having to dress up? :D On our last cruise we saw many couples very dressed up and also out dancing. No one felt out of place. I think it is wonderful if you enjoy the dress up thing and it makes you feel good about yourself. But seriously I really no longer want to do that. I guess I cannot understand why, I am not out to impress anyone. I already feel good about myself, dressing up does not make me feel better.

:rolleyes: This could be another perfect example of why HAL is having such a hard time selling their cruises, people talk with their wallet.

 

It's also optional to dress up on HAL. It's no different than NCL or RCCL.

[david,Mississauga]

You don't like those items, don't wear them.

But please do not try to bring the rest of us down to the lowest common denominator by saying "who needs this?" We need them! We like proper clothes and will continue to wear them when the occasion calls for them.

 

Well said! I don't understand the resistance to formal wear when the definition has been "dumbed down" so much.

 

As for those who are reluctant to pay an airline for luggage, how much does it cost for an extra suitcase, if indeed you really need it? This spring we travelled to Britain for a month: two one-week crossings on the Queen Mary 2, two weeks at our destination and two days in Halifax between ship and train. We took one average-sized case each and a small carry-on each. (One of the carry-ons was used exclusively to bring home goodies from Marks & Spencer.:)) A few years ago I bought a new lightweight tuxedo and my wife has two simple and lightweight long dresses and a cocktail dress. The only flight we needed for this most recent trip was Toronto - New York and we were well within our luggage allowance as always.

 

I am reminded of a quote from a celebrity (whose name escapes me at the moment). On a Cunard Atlantic crossing, she said to her children who were whinging about dressing for dinner: "If we wanted to dress like slobs we would have flown". Sorry, I don't mean to be mischievous; I couldn't resist that quote.

Edited December 15, 2014 by david,Mississauga

[cruisemom42]

I, like you, love a good steak. Unfortunately the steak on the "everyday menus" is pretty bad. I like plain simple food, but cooked perfectly. Disappointing when they have so many odd selections I don't care for.

 

I guess I like the "odd" selections. If by odd, you mean complex preparations with unusual combinations of ingredients. :o

 

Several have commented that there is less to like on the newly changed Le Cirque menu because they don't like fancy food. I think it looks more interesting and would be more likely to go now.

 

(As an aside, isn't Le Cirque pretty synonymous with fancy food...albeit a bit out of touch with the times :confused::D)

[LMaxwell]

 

As for those who are reluctant to pay an airline for luggage, how much does it cost for an extra suitcase, if indeed you really need it?

 

$40 or $50 if I really need it. But if I don't really need it what is the sense of spending money on it? :confused:

 

I dress formal for occasions requiring / worthy of them. This includes events with friends or family, gala events, charity balls, etc. These are usually to celebrate achievements, milestones, life events, or philanthropic activities. On a cruise I feel like they ask me to dress up in order to sell me more booze and photos. What exactly am I celebrating with hundreds or thousands of other strangers? What is the momentous occasion worthy of me paying another $50 to schlep luggage and dress in clothes I'm not even particularly personally comfortable in? :confused:

 

We dress up about 50% of the time for formal night. The other nights we just dress very clean and nice as we would any other night in the MDR. We never forgo the service and dinners we have paid for as part of our cruise; nor will we spend more for specialty dining unless it is our desire, and not someone elses regarding our level of dress.

 

As to your crass comments about dressing like a slob, I am sorry that you are stuck in a world where anything not resembling a tuxedo or pin striped suit means someone is a slob. That's a dismal view to have.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

It's also optional to dress up on HAL. It's no different than NCL or RCCL.

 

Yes BUT, It is NOT optional to dress Resort Casual on Formal Night on HAL and be allowed to be int he Public areas except for Lido. So the Options do NOT go Both ways. Trust me I talk with a LOT of Cruisers and potential cruisers over the past 5 and a half years many willing to spend 10K plus for a cruise vacation and they do NOT want to bring formal attire and dress up and do NOT want to feel looked down upon. So instead of them booking a Neptune Suite they choose another cruise line that will be optional for them.

[oofroggie]

I beg to differ about luggage and flying. I spent the first 120 days of this year on the Rotterdam and flying from Florida to London with 1 checked bag, 1 carry-on and 1 personal item. We had at least 1 formal a week and I had multi light weight formal tops to go with my black formal slacks and the same pair of black shoes. It really is just a case of bringing mix and match wear. As for the men 1 suit with a few different shirts and ties works fine if you stick to one color pallet. As for me I love the formal nights but also understand that not all are like me. I just go with the flow, If you do not like the formal nights it is not like you will not go hungry if you do not use the MDR.

[LMaxwell]

If you do not like the formal nights it is not like you will not go hungry if you do not use the MDR.

 

On the nights where I don't feel like dressing formally I still do not go hungry in the MDR:D

[iancal]

What's different about formal nights HAL from other lines that we travel on...

 

-HAL does not offer any alternative casual dining venues other than Lido

(and I lump Caneletto into that)

 

-HAL closes the Lido at 8 which really means that they start closing down at 7:30 and not much fresh hot food makes it to the steam tables after 7:15

 

-HAL has this ridiculous request that if you are not dressed to MDR code you should avoid public areas....but not the Lido. Who on earth is going to follow this rule or even expect that others will follow it? Certainly not us.

 

Most intelligent people would ignore the third item. That leaves one and two. HAL only needs to offer an alternative casual dining venue on formal nights AND extend the Lido hours by an hour. I suspect that if HAL did this they might attract more potential customers.

[GeriatricNurse]

Yes BUT, It is NOT optional to dress Resort Casual on Formal Night on HAL and be allowed to be int he Public areas except for Lido. So the Options do NOT go Both ways. Trust me I talk with a LOT of Cruisers and potential cruisers over the past 5 and a half years many willing to spend 10K plus for a cruise vacation and they do NOT want to bring formal attire and dress up and do NOT want to feel looked down upon. So instead of them booking a Neptune Suite they choose another cruise line that will be optional for them.

 

REALLY? :rolleyes: Well, I DO dress 'Resort Casual' on Formal Night(s) AND walk about ALL PUBLIC AREAS , after I have dined in the Lido! ;)

Edited December 15, 2014 by GeriatricNurse

[boulders]

Yes BUT, It is NOT optional to dress Resort Casual on Formal Night on HAL and be allowed to be int he Public areas except for Lido. So the Options do NOT go Both ways. Trust me I talk with a LOT of Cruisers and potential cruisers over the past 5 and a half years many willing to spend 10K plus for a cruise vacation and they do NOT want to bring formal attire and dress up and do NOT want to feel looked down upon. So instead of them booking a Neptune Suite they choose another cruise line that will be optional for them.

 

What's different about formal nights HAL from other lines that we travel on...

 

-HAL does not offer any alternative casual dining venues other than Lido

(and I lump Caneletto into that)

 

-HAL closes the Lido at 8 which really means that they start closing down at 7:30 and not much fresh hot food makes it to the steam tables after 7:15

 

-HAL has this ridiculous request that if you are not dressed to MDR code you should avoid public areas....but not the Lido. Who on earth is going to follow this rule or even expect that others will follow it? Certainly not us.

 

Most intelligent people would ignore the third item. That leaves one and two. HAL only needs to offer an alternative casual dining venue on formal nights AND extend the Lido hours by an hour. I suspect that if HAL did this they might attract more potential customers.

 

I have sailed 45 nights on HAL in the past 2 years. I have never seen or heard a request regarding dress in public areas on formal night or any other night. HAL's only dress requirement on every night of the cruise is that men wear long pants in the MDR. HAL has a great room service menu if you do not want to go to the MDR. The newer ships have the Tamarind restaurant. All of the ships have the Pinnacle Grill. There are several choices other than the MDR and the buffet. No one gets "looked down on" if they are not wearing formal wear on formal night, in the MDR or any other location on the ship.

 

HAL is no more formal than other mainstream cruiselines. But, if you wish to avoid HAL in the belief that it is, that means more cabins available for me. :D

[sammiedawg]

Yes BUT, It is NOT optional to dress Resort Casual on Formal Night on HAL and be allowed to be int he Public areas except for Lido. So the Options do NOT go Both ways. Trust me I talk with a LOT of Cruisers and potential cruisers over the past 5 and a half years many willing to spend 10K plus for a cruise vacation and they do NOT want to bring formal attire and dress up and do NOT want to feel looked down upon. So instead of them booking a Neptune Suite they choose another cruise line that will be optional for them.

 

We all have our opinions but Lisa is telling you what is going on in the cruise industry. My travel agent friend told me HAL is " bleeding customers" and the line they are flocking to is country club casual.

[RJ2002]

Looking at the current language on the HAL website, a specific reference to "public areas" as it pertains to the dress code seems to be gone. However, it does include the following phrase:

 

In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

 

In my experiences onboard on formal nights, throughout the ship (excluding the MDR) I've witnessed everything from tuxes and gowns, to jeans and shorts, and everything in between. In the MDR, it is definitely hit or miss. Sometimes you will see gentlemen dressed smart casual on "formal" nights, other times almost all gentlemen are wearing a coat & tie at a minimum. I have, on occasion, seen some women's attire on formal night that didn't appear to be very "formal" or "dressy", but women seem to have a little more leeway. :)

[babyher]

$40 or $50 if I really need it. But if I don't really need it what is the sense of spending money on it? :confused:

 

I dress formal for occasions requiring / worthy of them. This includes events with friends or family, gala events, charity balls, etc. These are usually to celebrate achievements, milestones, life events, or philanthropic activities. On a cruise I feel like they ask me to dress up in order to sell me more booze and photos. What exactly am I celebrating with hundreds or thousands of other strangers? What is the momentous occasion worthy of me paying another $50 to schlep luggage and dress in clothes I'm not even particularly personally comfortable in? :confused:

 

We dress up about 50% of the time for formal night. The other nights we just dress very clean and nice as we would any other night in the MDR. We never forgo the service and dinners we have paid for as part of our cruise; nor will we spend more for specialty dining unless it is our desire, and not someone elses regarding our level of dress.

 

As to your crass comments about dressing like a slob, I am sorry that you are stuck in a world where anything not resembling a tuxedo or pin striped suit means someone is a slob. That's a dismal view to have.

 

 

 

 

 

LIKE......NO LOVE

 

 

I couldn't have said this better myself :)

 

Thank you

[Tarpeian Rock]

I have sailed 45 nights on HAL in the past 2 years. I have never seen or heard a request regarding dress in public areas on formal night or any other night. HAL's only dress requirement on every night of the cruise is that men wear long pants in the MDR. HAL has a great room service menu if you do not want to go to the MDR. The newer ships have the Tamarind restaurant. All of the ships have the Pinnacle Grill. There are several choices other than the MDR and the buffet. No one gets "looked down on" if they are not wearing formal wear on formal night, in the MDR or any other location on the ship.

 

HAL is no more formal than other mainstream cruiselines. But, if you wish to avoid HAL in the belief that it is, that means more cabins available for me. :D

 

 

The public policy regarding wear on "formal nights" is certainly published and out there. At least some of us have in the past (operative word) seen men requested to return dressed more suitably. I wonder if HAL is just giving up on enforcement - such as it was - and riding the reputation of dressing-up that appeals to some of its traditional customers, but on a de facto level doing away with it. As long as the "formal" meme is out there, HAL likely makes a few bucks on a cut of the on-ship formal wear rental, plus photography.