No New "Smaller" Ships Planned?

[FSRoberts]

Money rules. They will offer whatever generates the most revenue.

 

On a side note, there is an old saying, Don't knock it until you try it. The OP, according to the signature, has ONLY been on "smaller" ships. Yet he or she decries the difference between those and th 4k-7k large ships. I would argue that a "small" ship has maybe 250 people on it, and the difference between the likes of Grandeur and Oasis are negligible.

 

It's far more than the number of people. It's the itineraries. The megaships operate mostly standard 7 day itineraries to popular destinations.

 

What about 8-12 day cruises? What about smaller ports? What about itineraries to Alaska, the Baltic, Norway, New England/Canada and the like that megaships avoid?

 

Look at what the Serenade is doing over the next year. While there is a few 7 day voyages, it is also doing some 10 and 13 day trips in northern Europe. It sails to Boston and does some 10, 12, and 14 day New England trips. Then from Ft. Lauderdale it does mostly alternating 10 and 11 day itnieraries. Those are what I worried get lost of small ships go away.

 

Having more smaller ships means more choice. In my view, I have taken my last 7 day voyage. With the travel I need to do to get to port, shorter voyages are not worth it. But if all we have is a few giants or unafordable upscale lines, I'm done cruising and am sticking to land.

[FSRoberts]

The math on those future Aida ships don't seem to add up - the 180,000 GT ships with 6,600 capacity don't make sense when the Oasis class at 223,000 GT "only" has a capacity of 5,400.

 

European itineraries are far more port intensive. They can easily hit 5 or even 6 ports on a 7 day voyage. Thus, less a need for public space. That's where I think those ships are heading. More cabins and turning into even more of a hotel on the sea.

[Scotty G]

I would like to see a modernized version of the Radiance Class built!

 

The Celebrity Solstice Class resembles your desire. My first impression on our first Equinox cruise was the familiarity the ship had to Jewel OTS.

 

RCCL actually was considering an option to get a couple of those for RCI until they changed gears. They let that contract expire and made a new contract to Royal Caribbeanize the Solstice concept and make the Quantum Class.

[cruisingsince94]

The math on those future Aida ships don't seem to add up - the 180,000 GT ships with 6,600 capacity don't make sense when the Oasis class at 223,000 GT "only" has a capacity of 5,400.

 

While the 2017 MSC Seaside is listed at 5,300 passengers within its 154,000 GT in some publications, it would be awfully cramped if those numbers are accurate.

 

Some publications intermix full capacity (which for Oasis class is well over 6,000) vs. double occupancy capacity.

 

In terms of GT, I think my statement stands that I don't foresee anyone building anything bigger than Oasis class.

 

I am referring to the number of passengers not tonnage. The four new ships will have a capacity of 6,600 passengers. Oasis can carry 6,450 at present.

[MAHA]

There was a similar discussion on a facebook site about the smaller ships. someone posted that on one of their recent cruises, they were told that Royal would be coming out with a new smaller class of ships called the Odyssey class. They would be in between the size of the Vision class and the Radiance class. Not sure whether this will really happen or not, but it was interesting.

 

The Edge class of ships for Celebrity will actually be smaller than their Solstice class and definately smaller than the Voyager class.

[The Big Booper]

The Virgin ships will carry slightly more then 2,800 pax and will be rated at 110,000 GRT. The Celebrity S ships also carry slightly more then 2,800 pax but are rated at 122,000 GRT.

 

Better space ratio in the Solstice class by 10%.

 

The proposed giant new builds from Carnival plc will be rated at 180,000 GRT and will carry as many people, full capacity, as the 225,000 GRT Oasis class. Once again, a lot more crowding.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

There was a similar discussion on a facebook site about the smaller ships. someone posted that on one of their recent cruises, they were told that Royal would be coming out with a new smaller class of ships called the Odyssey class. They would be in between the size of the Vision class and the Radiance class. Not sure whether this will really happen or not, but it was interesting.

 

It would be amazing if true and would allow RCCL to service itineraries that the Voyager class and larger cannot. That said I'm highly skeptical if RCCL will at this point build anything smaller than 100,000 tons

[Biker19]

There's no way the Radiance Class will all be gone in 5 years. Jewel, who is only 11 years old, hasn't even gone through her major refurbishment. She'll be around for at least 10 more years.

I said 5+ years, not within 5. Again, one has to go by market trends and past RCI decisions - it doesn't look like any ship's tenure with RCI will go much beyond 20 years.

[Biker19]

European itineraries are far more port intensive. They can easily hit 5 or even 6 ports on a 7 day voyage. Thus, less a need for public space. That's where I think those ships are heading. More cabins and turning into even more of a hotel on the sea.

It could be a very niche ship, like the Oasis class. You are right, if they kept in the Med, it could do 7 day sailings year round and there might not be much need for public space. And with that many passangers, the financials could make it lucrative and able to undercut the competion.

[Hoopster95]

There was a similar discussion on a facebook site about the smaller ships. someone posted that on one of their recent cruises, they were told that Royal would be coming out with a new smaller class of ships called the Odyssey class. They would be in between the size of the Vision class and the Radiance class. Not sure whether this will really happen or not, but it was interesting.

 

The Edge class of ships for Celebrity will actually be smaller than their Solstice class and definately smaller than the Voyager class.

 

It would be amazing if true and would allow RCCL to service itineraries that the Voyager class and larger cannot. That said I'm highly skeptical if RCCL will at this point build anything smaller than 100,000 tons

 

 

Great thread and discussion... I too am skeptical, but that Odyseey Class is exactly what will be needed imho, unless RCl rebrands all the smaller ships and forces that type of cruising to Celebrity, Azamara, etc.

 

As a Royal fan and making #1 choice with Royal on my bucket list trips, it would really pain me to see Vision & Radiance sized ships disappear within 10 yrs or so. There's no bloody way I'd ever sail Oasis Class ships in the Med.... what a waste. And now that my top 3-4 cruises have all been exotic itineraries on the smaller ships, it's become clear to me that as I get older and want to explore more of the world, I will be less and less attracted to the larger mega ships (to see Nassau and St Marten for the 30th time) for what I need to do and see (Quantum, Voyager & Oasis are my top 3 classes of ship but won't be sailing to where I need to go).

 

With CCL, NCL, MSC. Costa, etc all building mega liners with berths needing to be filled, I suspect the comment by LMaxwell to be interesting and likely... all we need is a recession or economic pull back (which will happen, we just don't know when) and then we'll see what prices are like when there's 20,000 berths in Miami on 4 diff cruise lines all sitting in Miami, another 25,000 berths on Ft Lauderdale and another 25,000 berths in Canaveral... all them the NCL Getaway, CCL Sunshine Class, Quantum IV, Oasis/Allure/Harmony/Oasis IV...

 

This reminds me of the condo glut/real estate market.... no different. Overbuild to meet a current demand, when finally built in 2-3 years the demand weakens leaving a huge inventory. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out

[Biker19]

 

With CCL, NCL, MSC. Costa, etc all building mega liners with berths needing to be filled, I suspect the comment by LMaxwell to be interesting and likely... all we need is a recession or economic pull back (which will happen, we just don't know when) and then we'll see what prices are like when there's 20,000 berths in Miami on 4 diff cruise lines all sitting in Miami, another 25,000 berths on Ft Lauderdale and another 25,000 berths in Canaveral... all them the NCL Getaway, CCL Sunshine Class, Quantum IV, Oasis/Allure/Harmony/Oasis IV...

Interestingly, Costa has no new ships at all for the foreseeable future (none in the next 5 years). Maybe the Concordia disaster damaged the name so much, CCL will simply let it wither away and make it up with their other brands.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

Interestingly, Costa has no new ships at all for the foreseeable future (none in the next 5 years). Maybe the Concordia disaster damaged the name so much, CCL will simply let it wither away and make it up with their other brands.

 

Actually, (I could be completely wrong) I thought it was rumored that 2 of the 4 new ships that were ordered by Carnival Corp will go to Costa.

Edited June 25, 2015 by OfTheSeasCruiser

[Clarea]

Actually, (I could be completely wrong) I thought it was rumored that 2 of the 4 new ships that were ordered by Carnival Corp will go to Costa.

I thought I read the same thing. Two ships to Aida and two ships to Costa.

[MADflyer]

Interestingly, Costa has no new ships at all for the foreseeable future (none in the next 5 years). Maybe the Concordia disaster damaged the name so much, CCL will simply let it wither away and make it up with their other brands.

 

AIDA is part of the Costa group and is CCLs most profitable cruise line. They have recently merged ship maritime operations for both lines to Hamburg, while maintaining their Costa headquarters in Genoa, Italy.

 

One or both of the currently announced Meyer builds will most likely go to Costa. If not, it will be one of the 5 other CCL ships to be built in Italy.

 

Costa leads the industry in development of the Chinese market.

 

Costa just released it's flagship the Costa Diadema, a fantastic new build and the largest Italian flagged cruise ship. It did not get much media attention outside of her key markets as the world was focused on Quantum. They had their maiden voyages just 2 weeks apart.

 

Costa will also be returning to Port Everglades this winter season.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/morning-edition/2015/01/costa-cruises-to-return-to-port-everglades-this.html

Edited June 25, 2015 by MADflyer

[Eng23]

I thought I read the same thing. Two ships to Aida and two ships to Costa.

You read correctly Bob.

[MADflyer]

Some good insights from the shipbuilder on the state of the 'small ship' segment and it's future.

 

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/can-a-110000gt-cruise-ship-be-called-boutique.html

[Desert Cruizers]

Bob our situation and am sure we are not the only ones, pretty much have to fly to our cruises. We have done Mexico, Coastals and traveled to Alaska and 2008 did a RT Hawaii so not much left for us to see on our side. As a result we look for the longer cruises and have no immediate plans to do 7 day Caribbean on the Oasis Class Ships. I would like to do a Caribbean with the Anthem.

 

Gay

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

There was a similar discussion on a facebook site about the smaller ships. someone posted that on one of their recent cruises, they were told that Royal would be coming out with a new smaller class of ships called the Odyssey class. They would be in between the size of the Vision class and the Radiance class. Not sure whether this will really happen or not, but it was interesting.

 

The Edge class of ships for Celebrity will actually be smaller than their Solstice class and definately smaller than the Voyager class.

 

I personally think that this would be a great addition to the RCI fleet. However, I have a hard time believing that they would be any smaller than the Radiance Class. I don't know where this info came from, but Odyssey Class would really be a perfect name IMO, showing that the ships will be focused on more interesting itineraries and destinations.

 

If Royal does end up building a "smaller" ship my guess would be that it will be slightly larger than Radiance Class, but still able to fit under the bridges and in smaller ports. Also, with a ship a little larger than Radiance, they would have some room to add some innovative attractions. Sure, they probably couldn't install an iFly or North Star, but they could add some things that would still go along with the WOW idea that Royal strives for.

[papcx]

This reminds me of the condo glut/real estate market.... no different. Overbuild to meet a current demand, when finally built in 2-3 years the demand weakens leaving a huge inventory. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out

 

 

If this is what happens (and I think your right) then ships will simply be moved to other areas, probably China.

[Desert Cruizers]

I would like tp see a ship between the Radiance and Voyager Class but won't hold my breath.

[MAHA]

I would like tp see a ship between the Radiance and Voyager Class but won't hold my breath.

 

The Celebrity Solstice class in in between and has lots of public spaces. The Edge class for Celebrity will be larger than Radiance but smaller than Solstice.

[American Bear]

The Virgin ships will carry slightly more then 2,800 pax and will be rated at 110,000 GRT. The Celebrity S ships also carry slightly more then 2,800 pax but are rated at 122,000 GRT.

 

Better space ratio in the Solstice class by 10%.

 

The proposed giant new builds from Carnival plc will be rated at 180,000 GRT and will carry as many people, full capacity, as the 225,000 GRT Oasis class. Once again, a lot more crowding.

 

 

 

I haven't seen any proposals about Carnival building anything above the new Vista Class due out starting next year at 135,500T with about 4000 passengers.

The only company besides RCL I heard breaking that will break 160,000T threshold over the next few years is MSC in 2017.:)

[MADflyer]

I haven't seen any proposals about Carnival building anything above the new Vista Class due out starting next year at 135,500T with about 4000 passengers.

The only company besides RCL I heard breaking that will break 160,000T threshold over the next few years is MSC in 2017.:)

 

The shipbuilder in the article link I posted above stated:

 

'It's good to see not everyone is going for very large ships,' chairman Vincenzo Petrone said. He disclosed Fincantieri is being approached about vessels in the 250,000gt to 260,000gt range—larger than the Oasis class

 

He did not state by whom.

[Ourusualbeach]

I haven't seen any proposals about Carnival building anything above the new Vista Class due out starting next year at 135,500T with about 4000 passengers.

The only company besides RCL I heard breaking that will break 160,000T threshold over the next few years is MSC in 2017.:)

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6408

[AtlantaCruiser72]

The Celebrity Solstice class in in between and has lots of public spaces. The Edge class for Celebrity will be larger than Radiance but smaller than Solstice.

 

I think the same basic Edge class platform may be the template for RCCL when they start replacing the Radiance class vessels in about 8-10 years.

 

Right now there are only three homeports (that I am aware of) RCCL uses where a Voyager Class will not be able to fit into, mostly due to bridge constraints - Baltimore, Tampa and Vancouver. RCCL will have to take this into consideration when the next new build program is announced, especially if they wish to continue offering Alaska cruisetours, which must start/end in Vancouver.

 

Also the Bridge of the Americas will be a limiting factor to the design as without the ability to transit the Panama Canal it limits deployment options.

 

Venice most likely will dredge a new approach channel so the government imposed cap (now lifted but being honored by the cruise lines) will become a non-issue.

 

What other major ports have size limitations that we can think of that a Voyager class would be unable to visit?