No New "Smaller" Ships Planned?

[Lmack]

We've sailed every class other than the Quantum class. We have no desire to sail on the Quantum or their new sister ships when delivered. We prefer the smaller ships and take every opportunity to sail on them. On the East coast, we also prefer the Baltimore port, which of course presently can only accommodate smaller ships due to the bridges. I find it interesting that sailing on smaller ships all seem to be sold out, with waiting lists. Our experience has been that the staff on smaller ships are by far friendlier and really want to get to know the guests. In addition, these smaller ships can go places the larger ships can't go to. So all and all, just give us the smaller ships. We'll continue sailing the smaller ships and when they're gone, our sailing days will come to an end. We'll leave the large amusement park/bells and whistles ships to the hip hop set.

[Ourusualbeach]

I am actually starting to see the following segmentation starting to appear:

 

-Traditional Cruising with Vision and Radiance Class. (full deck promenade, longer cruises, destination centered cruising, traditional cruise entertainment)

 

-Enhanced Cruising with Freedom and Voyager Class (Royal promenade, Ice shows, scheduled entertainment, active cruising)

 

-Dynamic Cruising with Quantum and Oasis Class (upscale, technology, latest features, dynamic dining, full suite enhancements)

 

They do not need new vessels to currently pursue this strategy for some time into the future. The Quantum class and revitalization of the Oasis class was necessary.

 

I see that happening now as well. I was referring longer term. Longer term I don't think that they will go back to building ships smaller than the Freedom class and eventually all the ships and itineraries will be more similar than the current range of offerings provides.

[Paulette3028]

Looks like in the next 4 years, all of the new ships will be Oasis & Quantum Classes. For now there are still older smaller ships to choose from. Until those are sold off. Doesn't look like they plan to return to a smaller model ship in the future? I would imagine I'm not the only one turned off by cruising with 4k-7k other people? Any idea if they have some longer term plans for some smaller ships? I can't imagine still being interested in cruising if the only ship options are 4k+ passengers in 10 years. Does RCI ever take input from what customers want? If so, where do we make our feelings known to the cruise line?

 

DH and I have cruised on every class of ship from Sovereign to Oasis, so for this discussion from some on its smallest passenger size of Jewel to Allure; Majesty carries generally more pax than Jewel. I have always commented that no matter how many pax are on a ship, if the ship is arranged properly and things scheduled well (to manipulate passenger flow) it should never 'feel' crowded, with the slight exception of when you are getting out of the theater at the end of a show. On all our cruises this has been the case.

 

Even more co-incidentally, I generally see the same 150 people throughout a cruise, no matter which class of ship I am sailing on. These people that I criss-cross with on a sailing, obviously have the same interests as I do, and are doing similar things at similar times with me.

 

When I think of small cruise ship, I think of something with less than 1000 passengers. There are ships like that, but I can't see myself (at least at this point in life) cruising on them. I have friends that have, and listening to them, I feel like those sailing are of no interest to me.

 

As we cruise more, itineraries will become a bigger deciding factor in our choices. At the point when we have much more flexibility than we do now, I will concerned about it more.

[GUT2407]

And while we love smaller ships, it is understandable why they aren't building them $$$$$$$$$$.

[OCruisers]

Seems if we are going to want to continue cruising on our favorite cruise lines, we are going to have to get use to sailing on the BIG GIRLS! :D

 

LuLu

[P&C4/16/67]

We cancelled our Anthem cruise and decided to sail the Grandeur instead. We sailed the Breakaway in January and it was like being in a mall rather than on a ship. After the Breakaway, DH took a closer look at the Anthem and said no go. It's not so much the size as it is the design. At a bare minimum, it has to have a traditional promenade deck. We love the Voyager and Freedom class ships the best on Royal. Living in the tri-state area, we are disappointed that we're going to have the Anthem. Needless to say, we'll have to drive or fly to a Royal ship or choose a traditional local ship from the other local lines. Just have to hope the older ships outlive us:D

[reney313]

It's my opinion that RCCL is differentiating their brands:

 

-RCI will be the larger ships--WOW ship factor--more mass market targeted to families and where the ship is the destination.

 

-Celebrity-Mid Range, focused on both ship and itinerary. More upscale, but not luxury. More like the legacy RCI brand of years past.

 

Azamara-Luxury, more all inclusive with the focus on the ports. Long stays, some overnights, small ships that provide a smaller ship experience.

 

It makes sense to me and I'll probably continue to sail RCI for Caribbean itineraries and when I just want to get away. While I do sail other lines, I would like to try X and see if it will provide what I used to appreciate with RCI. I also would like to try Azamara for some immersive port experiences in the future.

[SteelMagnolia9]

 

When I think of small cruise ship, I think of something with less than 1000 passengers. There are ships like that, but I can't see myself (at least at this point in life) cruising on them. I have friends that have, and listening to them, I feel like those sailing are of no interest to me.

 

As we cruise more, itineraries will become a bigger deciding factor in our choices. At the point when we have much more flexibility than we do now, I will concerned about it more.

 

I'm on the Pacific Princess, a 600+ ship, for my upcoming Alaska cruise this summer. The smaller ship experience in Alaska appealed to me, along with the itinerary, which includes Glacier Bay, which is not on any of Royal Caribbean's itineraries. This is my first cruise with Princess.

 

I am also booked on the Allure of the Seas later this year. Completely different experience and I'm looking forward to it as well.

 

I've never felt compelled to stick with one cruiseline. I haven't cruised as much over the years as many on this board, but I think you'll start to see less "loyalty" as people pick and choose among the available ships, cruiselines and itineraries. The loyalty programs (most of which involve offers of spending incentives) are not enough of an inducement for me to stay with one cruiseline when other interesting options beckon.

[GUT2407]

I'm on the Pacific Princess, a 600+ ship, for my upcoming Alaska cruise this summer. The smaller ship experience in Alaska appealed to me, along with the itinerary, which includes Glacier Bay, which is not on any of Royal Caribbean's itineraries. This is my first cruise with Princess.

 

I am also booked on the Allure of the Seas later this year. Completely different experience and I'm looking forward to it as well.

 

I've never felt compelled to stick with one cruiseline. I haven't cruised as much over the years as many on this board, but I think you'll start to see less "loyalty" as people pick and choose among the available ships, cruiselines and itineraries. The loyalty programs (most of which involve offers of spending incentives) are not enough of an inducement for me to stay with one cruiseline when other interesting options beckon.

 

 

PP is my favourite ship I love being able to know practically everyone on the ship and I love being able to feel the ocean, some of the big ships you might as well stay on land.

[Biker19]

Given past trends RCI is unlikely to extend the lifecycle of any of their ships much beyond 20 years. If the the financials make sense, any of the Vision class could be following Splendour out of the fleet at any time after 2017 ( I assume Legend will be next). With Oasis 4 and Quantum 4 coming before 2020, I would think at least 2 ships will leave before then.

 

As the airline industry has seen, there's a very limited market for the A380 (the Oasis class of the airline business) or as Ford has seen with the Excursion simply going bigger with every remodel has its limits (and market appeal).

 

I think the cruise industry has already reached that limit with Oasis and it is unlikely anyone would build anything bigger. Of course smaller than Oasis could still be very large. An Edge class ship with an additional deck (about 3300 capacity) makes the most sense for the next class of ships. Such a ship could still make it to most ports currently served by Vision class ships and make sense financially.

[nelblu]

We cancelled our Anthem cruise and decided to sail the Grandeur instead. We sailed the Breakaway in January and it was like being in a mall rather than on a ship. After the Breakaway, DH took a closer look at the Anthem and said no go. It's not so much the size as it is the design. At a bare minimum, it has to have a traditional promenade deck. We love the Voyager and Freedom class ships the best on Royal. Living in the tri-state area, we are disappointed that we're going to have the Anthem. Needless to say, we'll have to drive or fly to a Royal ship or choose a traditional local ship from the other local lines. Just have to hope the older ships outlive us:D

 

It has 2 promenade decks, albeit not as wide. I have sailed all sizes and types and enjoy the Oasis and Quantum class immensely. Once on these ships, you can't go back. I've got 2 Oasis and an Anthem cruise booked in the next year and a 9 nite Navigator in early '17 (great price).

[SaintL]

Although we have yet to sail on either the Oasis or Quantum Class Ships. I believe our comfort range in terms of number of passengers is 2500 to 3500. We haven't even sailed a Voyager class. Our sailings have been on the Brilliance, Radiance & Liberty of the Seas and soon to be Serenade of the Seas. We are not opposed to sailing on the larger classes, we just haven't found an itinerary or price that suits us. Coming from Calif & flying, we choose the longer cruises. Also since we aren't able to cruise on a yearly basis, we choose to go to places we haven't seen.

 

Well i know what you think you "believe" but ive been cruising for a while and the Allure was really the first ship i didn't feel crowded in, mid size ships like you describe are too small for all those passengers, the allure did such a great job in passenger space that not everyone is trying to be in the same place at the same time.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

Given past trends RCI is unlikely to extend the lifecycle of any of their ships much beyond 20 years. If the the financials make sense, any of the Vision class could be following Splendour out of the fleet at any time after 2017 ( I assume Legend will be next). With Oasis 4 and Quantum 4 coming before 2020, I would think at least 2 ships will leave before then.

 

As the airline industry has seen, there's a very limited market for the A380 (the Oasis class of the airline business) or as Ford has seen with the Excursion simply going bigger with every remodel has its limits (and market appeal).

 

I think the cruise industry has already reached that limit with Oasis and it is unlikely anyone would build anything bigger. Of course smaller than Oasis could still be very large. An Edge class ship with an additional deck (about 3300 capacity) makes the most sense for the next class of ships. Such a ship could still make it to most ports currently served by Vision class ships and make sense financially.

 

Regarding the 20 year life cycle... I definitely see that applying to the vision class, but I have a hard time believing that they will follow that trend for the Voyager and Radiance Class. Voyager is what, almost 16 years old already? IMO, I can't see them getting get rid of her in the next 4-6 years.

 

Also, both classes of these ships have all been through massive dry docks (or have them scheduled). I guess we will find out Royal's plan when one of the Radiance or Voyager Class ships creeps past that 20 year mark.

[SaintL]

We cancelled our Anthem cruise and decided to sail the Grandeur instead. We sailed the Breakaway in January and it was like being in a mall rather than on a ship. After the Breakaway, DH took a closer look at the Anthem and said no go. It's not so much the size as it is the design. At a bare minimum, it has to have a traditional promenade deck. We love the Voyager and Freedom class ships the best on Royal. Living in the tri-state area, we are disappointed that we're going to have the Anthem. Needless to say, we'll have to drive or fly to a Royal ship or choose a traditional local ship from the other local lines. Just have to hope the older ships outlive us:D

 

I think only Oasis class has a traditional promenade deck you can walk around.

[Hoopster95]

Regarding the 20 year life cycle... I definitely see that applying to the vision class, but I have a hard time believing that they will follow that trend for the Voyager and Radiance Class. Voyager is what, almost 16 years old already? IMO, I can't see them getting get rid of her in the next 4-6 years.

 

Also, both classes of these ships have all been through massive dry docks (or have them scheduled). I guess we will find out Royal's plan when one of the Radiance or Voyager Class ships creeps past that 20 year mark.

 

I think it was with you OfTheSeasCruiser along with Madflyer and a few others discussing this very topic on one of the "Deployment" threads... I tried to search but couldn't find it....

 

Anyways, we all kinda agreed on the above but in a little different way. I came up with a 2 tiered RCL business model: "TCL" (Traditional Cruise Lines) a division of RCL comprising of Vision & Radiance Class ships, traditional dining, classic cruising experience and more "thoughful" and longer itineraries, and then "B&W" Cruise Lines (Bells & Whistles lol!) comprising of Voyager Class and above, offering dynamic dining, more amenities, and making the ship more of the destination over the ports of call.

 

Here's a list of RCL ships and which year they were built:

 

Soveriegn 1988 - 2008 (20 yrs with RCL then sold)

Monarch 1990 - 2013 (23 yrs)

Majesty 1992 - 2016 (24 yrs)

 

Legend 1995

Splendour 1996 - 2016 (20 yrs)

Grandeur 1996

Enchantment 1997

Rhapsody 1997

Vision 1998

Voyager 1999 (hard to believe Voyager already in service for 16 yrs)

Explorer 2000

Radiance 2000

Adventure 2001

Navigator 2002

Brilliance 2002

Serenade 2003

Mariner 2003

Jewel 2004 (Jewel is only 11 yrs young!)

 

Pls correct any of the above if I'm off any of those years.

[OfTheSeasCruiser]

I think it was with you OfTheSeasCruiser along with Madflyer and a few others discussing this very topic on one of the "Deployment" threads... I tried to search but couldn't find it....

 

Anyways, we all kinda agreed on the above but in a little different way. I came up with a 2 tiered RCL business model: "TCL" (Traditional Cruise Lines) a division of RCL comprising of Vision & Radiance Class ships, traditional dining, classic cruising experience and more "thoughful" and longer itineraries, and then "B&W" Cruise Lines (Bells & Whistles lol!) comprising of Voyager Class and above, offering dynamic dining, more amenities, and making the ship more of the destination over the ports of call.

 

Here's a list of RCL ships and which year they were built:

 

Soveriegn 1988 - 2008 (20 yrs with RCL then sold)

Monarch 1990 - 2013 (23 yrs)

Majesty 1992 - 2016 (24 yrs)

 

Legend 1995

Splendour 1996 - 2016 (20 yrs)

Grandeur 1996

Enchantment 1997

Rhapsody 1997

Vision 1998

Voyager 1999 (hard to believe Voyager already in service for 16 yrs)

Explorer 2000

Radiance 2000

Adventure 2001

Navigator 2002

Brilliance 2002

Serenade 2003

Mariner 2003

Jewel 2004 (Jewel is only 11 yrs young!)

 

Pls correct any of the above if I'm off any of those years.

 

Yes, I remember that discussion. I really do like your idea of the two-tiered business model. I personally would be all for it, as I love the variety. I love the Radiance Class for the "small ship" atmosphere and the things that come along with that. On the other hand, I just got off the Oasis 3 weeks ago and absolutely loved that ship! And I even booked Allure for next year! However, I'm hoping to add a nice Jewel cruise towards the end of next year to get my cruise fill in for 2017, as I won't be cruising that year (:(). IMO, that just goes to show that having all of this variety is good. I'd hate to see Royal move towards a brand made completely of huge ships and blah itineraries, and abandon the smaller ships with the more traditional experience and great itineraries.

 

Oh wait, I have one stipulation... I know it sort of goes against your business model idea, but can the Voyager Class stay without Dynamic Dining?! :p;)

 

It will definitely be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Edited June 23, 2015 by OfTheSeasCruiser

[Hoopster95]

We cancelled our Anthem cruise and decided to sail the Grandeur instead. At a bare minimum, it has to have a traditional promenade deck.

 

It has 2 promenade decks, albeit not as wide.

 

I think only Oasis class has a traditional promenade deck you can walk around.

 

 

I believe P&C is talking about the outside deck 4 that goes around the entire outside of ship, not the "Royal Promenade". Q Class has a very short "promenade" (it's not really a promenade of sorts to me) that for me was very uninviting with proximity to the life boats and zero privacy to balconies above, plus they do not wrap around the bow nor the aft of the ship.

 

All other Royal Caribbean classes of ships before Quantum Class have an outside promenade on deck 4 with Oasis Class on deck 5 (running track). Actually now thinking of it, I don't consider that oasis deck much of a traditional outdoor promenade either

[Hoopster95]

I'd hate to see Royal move towards a brand made completely of huge ships and blah itineraries, and abandon the smaller ships with the more traditional experience and great itineraries.

 

Yep big(ger) ships = no Dubrovnik, no Venice, no to many many other bucket list must see ports... it would mean I'd be looking at other cruise lines for itinerary and then coming back to Royal only when I want some sunshine in the Caribbean and the ports/destination doesn't matter. They've already abandoned South America and I almost pulled the trigger with celebrity for 2017 (didn't for a couple of reasons). I really hope they keep Radiance and Vision Class ships around too regardless of their business model or capital cost depreciation, but I guess the bigger picture is RCL wants to be portrayed as the biggest, best, newest... not having a junker used car in their fleet with a ton of miles on it, let alone any catastrophic failures that come along with a used "vehicle" (ie. the motor seizes in the middle of the ocean, fire starts with 30 yr old wiring, etc etc)

[MADflyer]

I think it was with you OfTheSeasCruiser along with Madflyer and a few others discussing this very topic on one of the "Deployment" threads... I tried to search but couldn't find it....

 

Anyways, we all kinda agreed on the above but in a little different way. I came up with a 2 tiered RCL business model: "TCL" (Traditional Cruise Lines) a division of RCL comprising of Vision & Radiance Class ships, traditional dining, classic cruising experience and more "thoughful" and longer itineraries, and then "B&W" Cruise Lines (Bells & Whistles lol!) comprising of Voyager Class and above, offering dynamic dining, more amenities, and making the ship more of the destination over the ports of call.

 

Here's a list of RCL ships and which year they were built:

 

Legend 1995

Splendour 1996 - 2016 (20 yrs)

Grandeur 1996

Enchantment 1997

Rhapsody 1997

Vision 1998

 

.

 

I think I found that post. I was not involved in that conversation as I was just wrapping up the Oasis TA and then flying over to London followed by the Quantum TA at that time.

 

It is interesting that you had chosen the term 'RCL Nostalgia' and 'RCL WOW' it seems. Maybe you knew what was coming with the DD storm with the Oasis refurbishment and the Quantum intro. The DD Classic option was soon to come.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=44534285&postcount=3164

 

I just feel that Rhapsody, Enchantment and Grandeur are home ported for as long as run as possible at their 2016 home ports.

 

The ship revitalizations over the past 3 years along with the technological advances already present with the Vision class give the ships a longer potential life cycle.

[pspercy]

Virgin has signed with Fincantieri for three "boutique" ships. Boutique in their eyes being a capacity of 2800 passengers:eek::D so give 'em your input!

 

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/stay-turned-for-virgin-cruises-news.html

[Hoopster95]

I think I found that post.

I just feel that Rhapsody, Enchantment and Grandeur are home ported for as long as run as possible at their 2016 home ports.

 

Great find!!! :D

 

I agree with your last comment re: Vision Class... sisters Rhapsody & Vision I suspect will be around much longer than the 20 yr mark as they're so much nicer than Majesty & Legend/Splendour.. I also like your thought that RCL might milk those Vision Class ships for as long as possible in their current home ports.

[cruisingsince94]

Could that be why a port agent in Baltimore said she heard that Celebrity was coming back to Baltimore? Just thinking out loud.

 

Not sure that will happen. None of their ships will fit under the bridge.

[cruisingsince94]

Looks like in the next 4 years, all of the new ships will be Oasis & Quantum Classes. For now there are still older smaller ships to choose from. Until those are sold off. Doesn't look like they plan to return to a smaller model ship in the future? I would imagine I'm not the only one turned off by cruising with 4k-7k other people? Any idea if they have some longer term plans for some smaller ships? I can't imagine still being interested in cruising if the only ship options are 4k+ passengers in 10 years. Does RCI ever take input from what customers want? If so, where do we make our feelings known to the cruise line?

 

Yes, they listen. But only if it will improve their bottom line. We avoid the big ships although we are going to do the Harmony transatlantic in 2016. We want to experience it once, and do a transatlantic once. After that it's back to smaller ships.

It appears to me as if all future builds on Royal are going to be big. Celebrity is building a couple of new ships (Edge Class) and as the smaller RCI ships are sold, phased out, or moved away from U.S. ports we will shift our loyalty to Celebrity or other cruise lines.

[hansolosmom]

We've sailed every class other than the Quantum class. We have no desire to sail on the Quantum or their new sister ships when delivered. We prefer the smaller ships and take every opportunity to sail on them. On the East coast, we also prefer the Baltimore port, which of course presently can only accommodate smaller ships due to the bridges. I find it interesting that sailing on smaller ships all seem to be sold out, with waiting lists. Our experience has been that the staff on smaller ships are by far friendlier and really want to get to know the guests. In addition, these smaller ships can go places the larger ships can't go to. So all and all, just give us the smaller ships. We'll continue sailing the smaller ships and when they're gone, our sailing days will come to an end. We'll leave the large amusement park/bells and whistles ships to the hip hop set.

 

We cancelled our Anthem cruise and decided to sail the Grandeur instead. We sailed the Breakaway in January and it was like being in a mall rather than on a ship. After the Breakaway, DH took a closer look at the Anthem and said no go. It's not so much the size as it is the design. At a bare minimum, it has to have a traditional promenade deck. We love the Voyager and Freedom class ships the best on Royal. Living in the tri-state area, we are disappointed that we're going to have the Anthem. Needless to say, we'll have to drive or fly to a Royal ship or choose a traditional local ship from the other local lines. Just have to hope the older ships outlive us:D

 

We're in the same "boat" so to speak. I love being able to cruise out of the NE. I'm trying Breakaway in March to see what that's like. I personally wish they'd leave Liberty here instead of Anthem, since I like the Freedom class. NCL has 2 ships in NYC, why can't RCCL keep 2 up here.

We did Grandeur years ago & then again last year. The trip was so rough out of Baltimore last year that I won't do that ship again. I know it really can't be replaced due to the bridges.

I was also looking for something we could do around Spring break but for some weird reason the ships up here are doing 9-10 day cruises around that time. The only choices were Anthem & Breakaway, I was really disappointed in that.

[ehfl]

It doesn't make economic sense for mass market brands to invest in small ships. They're expensive to operate, and are better suited for premium brand lines.