Cancelled cruises announcement - Epic, Jade, Spirit, Star, Sun

[fshagan]

Bait and switch pure and simple to sell product today and take money, tell customers tomorrow that product purchased is no longer available. Keep consumer $ , and then say you can have the same or almost the same product but now it costs more than we sold it to you for.

 

Sorry but the cruise ticket contract does not cover this.

 

I would certainly still complain to see if you get any traction but I doubt this falls under the law. It is worth a try, though. You might get two or three of you together and see if there's a class action available.

 

It seems the Jade passengers who booked for 2017 are getting the worst of the offers and they are not comparable at all to the options given to everyone else. People are getting the same dates, or nearly the same dates, with price protection and all their booked amenities, and are generally happy with the change.

 

But the Jade passengers aren't happy at all with the different offer they are getting. Shifting the cruise a month or two in either direction is probably acceptable to most people, but a full year isn't. To be honest, I would take the refund from NCL and find another option if they did it to me. I would stick it out until the 24th when the automatic cancel and refund happens because they might change their minds before then.

[old nutter]

The NCL UK system still can't do Option 1 changes where the alternate offer is acceptable and price protected. Not sure if the US system is also the same.

[LrgPizza]

Bait and switch pure and simple to sell product today and take money, tell customers tomorrow that product purchased is no longer available. Keep consumer $ , and then say you can have the same or almost the same product but now it costs more than we sold it to you for.

 

 

The error in your argument lies there. NCL will give a refund. NCL has made it clear that you are entitled to a full refund of your deposit and anything else that's been paid.

[AlicanteMac]

booked on Epic for Xmas 2016 - cancelled like you guys. Still no alternative cruise available (unless I go a year earlier, which I can't!). NCL I want to go away for Xmas 2016! This is not rocket science! Just give me a price and what offers I can have and I'll be happy (ish!)

[old nutter]

The error in your argument lies there. NCL will give a refund. NCL has made it clear that you are entitled to a full refund of your deposit and anything else that's been paid.

 

Not a lawyer but the issue is slightly more complicated because NCL actually KNEW they were selling something that was never going to be provided. That is little different to somebody doing the same with a product and offering refunds when they were caught out afterwards. In the UK at least, intention to defraud is an offence even if you put it right after getting caught out doing it

 

I suspect that NCL would have problems defending taking bookings anytime between at least the Friday and Monday when they issued the cancellations because they briefed their phone agents about the changes on the Friday. After all they could have put blocks on affected bookings over that weekend if they had actually thought the problem through.

[peteukmcr]

The NCL UK system still can't do Option 1 changes where the alternate offer is acceptable and price protected. Not sure if the US system is also the same.

 

 

They haven't a clue what they are doing in the UK. I have emails to/from a PCC but nothing has been done.

 

Today I've received another email from someone in guest relations asking if I've had chance to review the options since receiving their notification on August 2nd and to contact them.

 

I've advised by phone and email already I want a full refund for both the cruise and flights.

 

What a way to run a business.

[AlicanteMac]

They haven't a clue what they are doing in the UK. I have emails to/from a PCC but nothing has been done.

 

Today I've received another email from someone in guest relations asking if I've had chance to review the options since receiving their notification on August 2nd and to contact them.

 

I've advised by phone and email already I want a full refund for both the cruise and flights.

 

What a way to run a business.

 

That's disgusting treatment! I've been looking at Xmas 2016 with other co but so far it's booked up. I just don't get what they're up to?

[west2000]

Epic guests have only been offered the option to cruise 12 months early to achieve price protection and retention of perks. People book their cruises in a time frame they want so this is not a reasonable offer. UK terms and conditions and ABTA state a 'reasonable' alternative. Currently no new cruises available to view. Shocking customers service. I do not want a refund I want a cruise in the time frame I booked in. Happy to change ship, departure port and even pay additional port fees but I do not see why keeping perks is unreasonable in NCL eyes.

[AlicanteMac]

epic guests have only been offered the option to cruise 12 months early to achieve price protection and retention of perks. People book their cruises in a time frame they want so this is not a reasonable offer. Uk terms and conditions and abta state a 'reasonable' alternative. Currently no new cruises available to view. Shocking customers service. I do not want a refund i want a cruise in the time frame i booked in. Happy to change ship, departure port and even pay additional port fees but i do not see why keeping perks is unreasonable in ncl eyes.

 

exactly how i feel!

[LrgPizza]

Not a lawyer but the issue is slightly more complicated because NCL actually KNEW they were selling something that was never going to be provided. That is little different to somebody doing the same with a product and offering refunds when they were caught out afterwards. In the UK at least, intention to defraud is an offence even if you put it right after getting caught out doing it

 

I suspect that NCL would have problems defending taking bookings anytime between at least the Friday and Monday when they issued the cancellations because they briefed their phone agents about the changes on the Friday. After all they could have put blocks on affected bookings over that weekend if they had actually thought the problem through.

When you quoted me, you ignored the words I had bolded. My point is that the poster I quoted is stating that NCL is keeping the consumer's money. That is not true. The only way they keep the money is if the consumer doesn't want it back (meaning books another cruise and doesn't cancel). The consumer cannot file a claim misleading the government into believing that NCL is keeping the money (which is written above), or it could be construed as fraud by the consumer making the false claim.

 

They can argue everything you wrote above. What they cannot argue is that they booked a cruise, NCL knew the cruise wasn't going to happen, and now NCL is keeping the money. That's a lie.

Edited August 18, 2015 by LrgPizza

[fshagan]

When you quoted me, you ignored the words I had bolded. My point is that the poster I quoted is stating that NCL is keeping the consumer's money. That is not true. The only way they keep the money is if the consumer doesn't want it back (meaning books another cruise and doesn't cancel). The consumer cannot file a claim misleading the government into believing that NCL is keeping the money (which is written above), or it could be construed as fraud by the consumer making the false claim.

 

They can argue everything you wrote above. What they cannot argue is that they booked a cruise, NCL knew the cruise wasn't going to happen, and now NCL is keeping the money. That's a lie.

 

The original claim was that it was in violation of Florida's "bait and switch" laws. To violate that kind of law you don't even have to take anyone's money. You just have to advertise something that isn't available and then try to convince the consumer to take an alternative that is more expensive. In NCL's case they took a deposit, then offered the same product a year earlier, but for a slightly different product in the same time frame the consumer can pay more.

 

The people holding this view believe the same ship, sailing the same itinerary, out of Tampa instead of Texas (Houston?), is an equivalent product. It isn't, because the port makes a huge difference. The value of a cruise out of Tampa is higher than that out of Texas. People pay more for a cruise out of Tampa. The cruise lines had to heavily discount the sailings from Houston in order to fill the ships. Now they have cancelled the cruises that are less profitable.

 

I actually think it is legal, and not a violation of bait and switch. I'm not a lawyer so I don't really know. But if they want to pursue it a call or complaint with the Florida attorney general is probably in order.

[LrgPizza]

The original claim was that it was in violation of Florida's "bait and switch" laws. To violate that kind of law you don't even have to take anyone's money. You just have to advertise something that isn't available and then try to convince the consumer to take an alternative that is more expensive. In NCL's case they took a deposit, then offered the same product a year earlier, but for a slightly different product in the same time frame the consumer can pay more.

 

The people holding this view believe the same ship, sailing the same itinerary, out of Tampa instead of Texas (Houston?), is an equivalent product. It isn't, because the port makes a huge difference. The value of a cruise out of Tampa is higher than that out of Texas. People pay more for a cruise out of Tampa. The cruise lines had to heavily discount the sailings from Houston in order to fill the ships. Now they have cancelled the cruises that are less profitable.

 

I actually think it is legal, and not a violation of bait and switch. I'm not a lawyer so I don't really know. But if they want to pursue it a call or complaint with the Florida attorney general is probably in order.

I'm not sure why I was quoted here. I responded directly to someone that was going to make a false claim by lying and saying that NCL kept the money. I'm not debating or discussing any other parts of it. I'm simply saying they can't like and say NCL is keeping the money. Go back to the original post I quoted. Edited August 18, 2015 by LrgPizza

[medicalma'am]

I was on hold for over two hours 14 minutes after calling at exactly the appointed hour and day. I was not about to give up and am glad I hung on for a person to answer. I knew that it had to be a nasty job being on that dedicated line the first day. I can just imagine what the company had to do to get employees to take that assignment this week!

 

I had a special 5 night out of Tampa on the Star that was cancelled for January 2017. This is a cruise that I am taking with three girlfriends from grade school that get together every year. They had asked me to find a shorter cruise than a 7 night. What I wanted was a 4 night out of Canaveral on the Epic. Not gonna happen.....It was TWICE the price! This was because we had booked when the F&F sail free which was not available for this booking (it had to be 5 night or longer). We had a SJ Family suite so all the amenities offered at the time of booking. I ended up taking a 7 night out of NOLA on the Dawn, got all the amenities, in an SJ family suite at almost the same price.

 

Get this.....We got the LAST available room on deck 12!!! I asked the agent if this booking was only available to those who were ousted from their cruises and he confirmed that with a chuckle. Amazing that those suites will be already booked when it goes on sale to the public next week.

 

So now I just hope that my friends will find this suitable to be gone a week together outside of the US, instead of the 4 day weekends that we usually do somewhere in the United States. :o The Epic would have been nice, but we want a relaxing week and the Dawn might be a better choice for us.

 

The representative I spoke with was kind, polite, patient with me and even placed me on hold once to try to see if I could get the F&F sail free on the Epic. I remained cool and I polite myself. Before I got off the phone with the representative, I did sincerely wish him a good day. I would hate to be the one on those phone lines this week!!!

[littlelulu01]

I'm not sure why I was quoted here. I responded directly to someone that was going to make a false claim by lying and saying that NCL kept the money. I'm not debating or discussing any other parts of it. I'm simply saying they can't like and say NCL is keeping the money. Go back to the original post I quoted.

 

I am referring to the cruise I purchased. I know that On August 1, 2015 I purchased a 11 night cruise in the med from Barcelona. That ships sailing was canceled on August 3, 2015 an d the same date NCL announced publicly that the spirit was replacing the epic for med sailings.

 

My epic sailing was canceled for next December and I was offered a chance to sail on the replacement ship for more $. The spirit replacement for similar times and dates that I purchased and similar ports is also 11 nights. If I wish to sail their price protection replacement cruise, which is an unreasonable offer, I must sail now. In fact the replacement cruise for this December is a 10 night cruise and not exact ports either.

 

NCL said in their cancelation email that they still want me to have the vacation of my dreams. In order to book that I could not cancel and get $ refunded until I found out what the alternative price was on the 17th for spirit sailing.

 

Yes I could have canceled at any time and got $ back but I wanted a cruise and was hoping the spirit would be selling for the same $. In order to do that I needed to let them keep $.

 

It's bait and switch without that part of the equation anyway so the keeping of $ is not a sticking point.

 

Who knows, there's still a chance NCL can turn this around and offer similar product for same price. I'm hoping the quotes yesterday were just computer glitches because their system was overloaded. If that's the case I'll still be a happy NCL customer and gladly take my new offer. If I am given an offer on the replacement cruise then no it won't be bait and switch.

[watchdiva]

We switched our cancelled Mexican Riviera cruise on the Jewel to the 14 day Panama Canal cruise (sailing on the same date) but obviously without price protection (we certainly never expected price protection when the cancelled 7 day cruise became a 14 day cruise:)). I was in the queue for no more than 30 minutes yesterday (calling in at 8:59 AM) when the call was picked up by a fantastic lady who worked with me to secure me the exact cabin that I wanted on the 14 dayer - this was critical to us since there are only 4 Deck 10 AFT suites!). I do believe that the phone reps are doing the best that they can, under trying (to say the least) circumstances. I know that since we opted for option 2 our situation was different BUT our experience was smooth.

 

Our phone rep was a delight to work with and made sure that she did the best job for us that she could!

Edited August 18, 2015 by watchdiva

[littlelulu01]

I would certainly still complain to see if you get any traction but I doubt this falls under the law. It is worth a try, though. You might get two or three of you together and see if there's a class action available.

 

It seems the Jade passengers who booked for 2017 are getting the worst of the offers and they are not comparable at all to the options given to everyone else. People are getting the same dates, or nearly the same dates, with price protection and all their booked amenities, and are generally happy with the change.

 

But the Jade passengers aren't happy at all with the different offer they are getting. Shifting the cruise a month or two in either direction is probably acceptable to most people, but a full year isn't. To be honest, I would take the refund from NCL and find another option if they did it to me. I would stick it out until the 24th when the automatic cancel and refund happens because they might change their minds before then.

 

I will not incur any actual damages as a result of this canceled cruise so no way would I want to bring a lawsuit. But as far as bait and switch I don't see how it's anything but.

 

Advertising and selling a cruise on the epic for x $ and the next day canceling Epic cruise. Then offering the replacement cruise on the spirit vs the epic for more $.

 

They even announced the Spirit was replacing the Epic for year round med sailing.

 

My situation is a particularly blatant example because I purchased it the day before all this happened.

 

Bait and switch is the advertising of an unavailable product, then offering a similar product for more $. It's against the law in Florida.

[Cindy]

Sorry to bust the bubble of negativity in here, but I was also on one of the cancelled sailings. If you READ what was in the email, you could move to a designated cruise, and THAT was what provided the price protection. If you cancelled and re-booked, you have zero price protection as NCL is not liable for it. I was able to switch to Jade (when I was on Star), AND they upgraded me.

 

And I have also had this happen on Holland America too, when they shuffled the vista class around for charters (Westerdam went out for a smooth jazz charter and Zuiderdam went out for a blues charter). HAL offered me squat, but that was what I expected, as I couldn't re-book when they felt I should.

 

 

Sorry, a cancellation for a charter bears no resemblance to a cruise line redeploying 1/3 of their fleet for an entire season. Just be thankful you weren't already booked on the Jade. Your post would have a really different tone if you were.[emoji34]

[Cruisercl]

IMO, part of the problem here is that some of us were offered unreasonable choices to move our cruise; some were not.

 

To disparage someone that is not you, just because you may not understand their situation, is disrespectful and goes beyond the spirit of what CC is and should be. Asking or telling someone to READ or question if they READ their e-mail........really?

 

I do not see any personal lawsuits coming from this mess but if the Florida AG was notified of all of the current treatment of NCL customers they are the ones that decide if there is indeed an problem with NCL and consumer protection laws already in place. It may also support future necessary consumer protection laws.

 

Consumer protection laws are in place because customers were 'screwed' by vendors/ sellers etc., not only in the travel industry.

 

Please be respectful......my thanks.

[coldferret]

My letter clearly said I would have price protection on any 14 day Epic cruise from November 2016 to March 2017.

I was on hold over 2 hours. The rep was nice and I was polite. I don't think she did this job recently based on some comments. Anyway, there are no 14 day cruises so I asked for a back to back as the ports were almost the same. Lost Nassau for the private island.She had to put me on hold several times which would have been ok if we had got it done but has to call back today.

I got a conformation e mail for one 7 day cruise assigned a handicapped cabin (not needed ) and the cost is 300 dollars more for just that week so 600 more for the 14 days. I am not happy. Could not reach the person I had dealt with so will spend another day waiting by the phone. I hope I don't have to cancel but 600 is too much and one less port.

This am I got a notice informing me that since I chose a handicapped cabin I might have to give it up if needed. I know it is automated but still.

 

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[Sotermarler]

Epic guests have only been offered the option to cruise 12 months early to achieve price protection and retention of perks. People book their cruises in a time frame they want so this is not a reasonable offer. UK terms and conditions and ABTA state a 'reasonable' alternative. Currently no new cruises available to view. Shocking customers service. I do not want a refund I want a cruise in the time frame I booked in. Happy to change ship, departure port and even pay additional port fees but I do not see why keeping perks is unreasonable in NCL eyes.

 

 

Ditto.

So it sounds like Jade 2016-17 and Epic got the same no viable option treatment. I would

suggest we all squawk loudly through social media and letters. Maybe someone will listen, and offer us an equitable resolution like the other 3 cancelled cruises.

It's actually heartbreaking to see all the positive posts of passengers who are able to rebook with price protection and extra OBC on the ship I was cast off of. While I am glad for many of you, I can't understand why we weren't offered similar options.

 

If any one in either of these ships gets an offer other than a year in advance, please let us know as soon as possible.

[wajowander2011]

Haven't seen anything new for Europe next Fall/Winter yet. Hopefully by tomorrow. We simply can't cruise for 2-3 weeks in Europe before next Fall, period. So, if nothing comes up, we'll get our $ back.....only NCL cruises I'd consider after that would be 3 "local" ones, in order to use our $250 "Future Cruise Rewards" we have....then, never again.

 

Agree that we need to be civil w/each other. Don't think there's been anything "bad" so far, just frustration w/NCL that we don't have any other way to "vent".....it would be a "hoot" to have a "live" forum like this w/a few NCL reps, especially if they actually had the power to change things! Joe

[coldferret]

I should be clear that we were booked on the Spirit out of Orlando. EPIC is now sailing from that port and I thought it would be no problem to just switch ships.

I am still waiting for my call back from yesterday

 

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[littlelulu01]

I am referring to the cruise I purchased. I know that On August 1, 2015 I purchased a 11 night cruise in the med from Barcelona. That ships sailing was canceled on August 3, 2015 an d the same date NCL announced publicly that the spirit was replacing the epic for med sailings.

 

My epic sailing was canceled for next December and I was offered a chance to sail on the replacement ship for more $. The spirit replacement for similar times and dates that I purchased and similar ports is also 11 nights. If I wish to sail their price protection replacement cruise, which is an unreasonable offer, I must sail now. In fact the replacement cruise for this December is a 10 night cruise and not exact ports either.

 

NCL said in their cancelation email that they still want me to have the vacation of my dreams. In order to book that I could not cancel and get $ refunded until I found out what the alternative price was on the 17th for spirit sailing.

 

Yes I could have canceled at any time and got $ back but I wanted a cruise and was hoping the spirit would be selling for the same $. In order to do that I needed to let them keep $.

 

It's bait and switch without that part of the equation anyway so the keeping of $ is not a sticking point.

 

Who knows, there's still a chance NCL can turn this around and offer similar product for same price. I'm hoping the quotes yesterday were just computer glitches because their system was overloaded. If that's the case I'll still be a happy NCL customer and gladly take my new offer. If I am given an offer on the replacement cruise then no it won't be bait and switch.

 

NCL took care of me!!!! I thought I better try one more time today before giving up. I called my TA and they said it would be an hour wait. It actually was not a very long wait, no where near an hour and I was switched from an Epic med sailing to a Epic Spirit sailing.

 

Just wanted to let you with Epic med cancelations know there is potential hope and to try back again if you were told yesterday they wouldn't switch. I got price protection too.

[west2000]

NCL took care of me!!!! I thought I better try one more time today before giving up. I called my TA and they said it would be an hour wait. It actually was not a very long wait, no where near an hour and I was switched from an Epic med sailing to a Epic Spirit sailing.

 

Just wanted to let you with Epic med cancelations know there is potential hope and to try back again if you were told yesterday they wouldn't switch. I got price protection too.

 

Do mean you switched from Epic to Spirit in the Med as if that is the case that is all we are looking to do as well (All hope may not be lost) :-)

[fshagan]

I will not incur any actual damages as a result of this canceled cruise so no way would I want to bring a lawsuit. But as far as bait and switch I don't see how it's anything but.

 

Advertising and selling a cruise on the epic for x $ and the next day canceling Epic cruise. Then offering the replacement cruise on the spirit vs the epic for more $.

 

They even announced the Spirit was replacing the Epic for year round med sailing.

 

My situation is a particularly blatant example because I purchased it the day before all this happened.

 

Bait and switch is the advertising of an unavailable product, then offering a similar product for more $. It's against the law in Florida.

 

I don't know Florida's law, or if it even applies if the business (ship) is located elsewhere, etc. Probably does because of the billing location.

 

I think if you feel strongly it is bait and switch then you should complain to the FL attorney general using the form provided previously. I think your case is pretty unique among the posters here in that you purchased right before the cancellation and we can assume selling that cruise to you is either due to gross negligence or at the very least no concern about the passengers. I don't think there's an intention to defraud, which may be a requirement in this kind of case in Florida.

 

In your case, it would be better for NCL if they offered nothing but a refund, because an "upsell" simply stinks under the circumstances.