Cutting corners?

[Pet Nit Noy]

One thought that keeps occurring to me is that this practice encourages folks to book ship's tours, since they will be adapted to itinerary changes by Destination Services, not by the pax. The most vocal and assertive folks on CC (in my experience) book and plan their own tours for reasons that are constantly made clear -- less cost, smaller groups, etc. - but the port time changes really mess with those tours, and irritate the self- planners. They are almost violent in their opposition to ship's tours and often scornful of anyone willing to get on a bus with the unwashed masses. :-) I think a lot of the anger in this thread relates to this (I know, doh,) so telling these folks to chill just won't work. But I am kind of with you, Dinah. (Noting that we pretty much do ships tours and can roll with the punches...)

 

I think you're right that Oceania is trying to drive more people to take ship's excursions. I'm looking at the introduction of the OLife excursion benefit and the recent tendency to make last minute changes after final payment, which means the private tour types have to scramble to revise arrangements already in place. I think Oceania is coping with the inevitable consequences their early branding.

 

Your world. Your way. An emphasis on itineraries rather than ice-skating/rock climbing walls/wave pools. The result of those decisions has been to attract cruisers who are deeply passionate about their time off the ship in spite of enjoying their time on the ship. Until recently, Oceania has been able to offer this group a good "home": interesting itineraries coupled with longer port times and no included excursions. But the economics have changed and Oceania is making fewer classic Oceania-style decisions.

 

Corporate seems to think that despite the complaining, the itinerary-passionate types will feel they have no other cruise line that is a good fit. And that may be true, if we're considering ocean-going cruises only. But river cruising is looking good: newer, more upscale ships and in-depth itineraries of a smaller area. And independent travel has never lost its appeal.

 

We're heading to Cuba in December, and, next summer, we're hosting our immediate family for a milestone anniversary celebration in the US. As a result, we haven't thought about another major trip for the rest of 2016. Our existing plans coupled with our disenchantment with Oceania's recent behavior mean we are throwing our Oceania print catalogs in the trash, typically without even opening them. Is that what Oceania wants from people who have not cruised with another ocean-going line since the day Oceania was founded?

Edited September 11, 2015 by Pet Nit Noy

[2onboardagain]

I do hope someone is reading this. I do not believe FDR has time for these boards in his new capacity!

 

It looks like you are right about FDR not being on these boards anymore. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe his username was FDR and it is not even listed on the member's list anymore.

[LHT28]

FDR (not his user name) has not been on the forums for well over a year now ... since the talks on the merger with NCL were in the works

 

Maybe people should be addressing their concerns to the President & COO of PCH Jason Montague

while I am sure the orders come from a higher position in the company

 

let's face it this is not the Oceania it was 2 yrs ago & I doubt it will ever be again

They now answer to the shareholders of NCLH

It is all about the profit now as it was before but I think FDR had a gentler approach to it ;)

 

I do not know of many companies that would give up their profits to please their customers

 

Bottom line it is YOUR money & you can choose to spend it where you get the best service

 

JMO

 

 

[cbb]

I wouldn't be happy with a loss of port time either. So far on our RTW 16 we've lost an hour or so in a few ports, but have arrived early in a few others. Of course, that can/will change.

 

The thing I'm curious about is the notion that there are other cruise lines one can take their $ to. Seriously, what would those be? I've tried Crystal and while lovely it is not port intensive. Other cruise lines are simply too big for us.

 

Other cruise lines may also be small, but they may have a smoking policy I don't like, or they still have formal nights, or they have "slow" itineraries.

 

I'm upfront about not being on board for the cruising experience but rather as a means to see beautiful places by sailing into port and then visiting that place with someone I love. Dock location and ease of getting off and on ship is also important.

 

Don't yell at me, but what other small-ship cruise line could I sail on if I took my $ elsewhere? c

[Pet Nit Noy]

The thing I'm curious about is the notion that there are other cruise lines one can take their $ to. Seriously, what would those be? I've tried Crystal and while lovely it is not port intensive. Other cruise lines are simply too big for us.

 

Other cruise lines may also be small, but they may have a smoking policy I don't like, or they still have formal nights, or they have "slow" itineraries.

 

Is a "slow" itinerary is your way of saying river cruising?

[LHT28]

Don't yell at me, but what other small-ship cruise line could I sail on if I took my $ elsewhere? c

I agree with you

 

Some people like Azamara but so far what I have read over there their tactics are worse than O

We are not formal night people & all inclusive ships do not appeal to us

I am still looking for something that comes close to O

 

After sailing on Oceania it is hard to adjust to larger ships

 

Maybe it will be back to land vacations for us :(

Edited September 11, 2015 by LHT28

[hypercafe]

As far as all companies wanting a profit, that is true. If no profit, no company. The problem here is Oceania is selling one deal and changing it after people are locked in, sort of foul play and underhanded in my view. If Oceania is the only line that you like then you will have to live with it. Best to book after final payment if you can.

[ShopperfiendTO]

I agree with you

 

Some people like Azamara but so far what I have read over there their tactics are worse than O

We are not formal night people & all inclusive ships do not appeal to us

I am still looking for something that comes close to O

 

After sailing on Oceania it is hard to adjust to larger ships

 

Maybe it will be back to land vacations for us :(

 

Which tactics are you referring to? You can easily ignore the art sales and cameras (the photographers eventually get the message that you don't want your photo taken). Upselling on the liquor does appear to be creeping to be par for the course though...

 

Honestly, Az is probably the closest you're going to get to O at this time, and frankly, they are pretty close.

 

Certainly, their itineraries are better (now with O's shenanigans, much better) than O's.

[ShopperfiendTO]

Having been to two the African ports of your cruise and personally there no way that I would get off the ship in either Dakar or Banjul.

On my last visit to Dakar about 10% of the ships passengers were robbed there are gangs around the port entrance and they surround you pull down your trousers and push you over and go through your pockets, I saw this happen on a ships tour to a couple that were walking a few yards in the rear of the group.

In Banjul two passengers who took a taxi were taken into the country and robbed at knife point .

I have not been to any of the other ports of call but I cannot see them being any different as these are some of the poorest countries in the world.

In conclusion may be the shortening of timings are a safety issue ???

 

If safety was a concern it seems to me that the port would be skipped rather than shortened.:confused:

[Paulchili]

In conclusion may be the shortening of timings are a safety issue ???

 

Do you mean stay there just long enough to get robbed but not long enough to see anything? :D

[buggins0402]

Which tactics are you referring to? You can easily ignore the art sales and cameras (the photographers eventually get the message that you don't want your photo taken). Upselling on the liquor does appear to be creeping to be par for the course though...

 

Honestly, Az is probably the closest you're going to get to O at this time, and frankly, they are pretty close.

 

Certainly, their itineraries are better (now with O's shenanigans, much better) than O's.

 

It's a line I'd consider...but they only have 2 ships (sometimes only one) so very little choice. The lack of choice is particularly difficult for those still working who need to fit in a vacation to a work schedule.

 

Actually, with what's been happening to O itineraries, going back to land vacations is a consideration. Some nice hotels in Europe look very cheap right now, given the $/Euro Xrate.

Edited September 11, 2015 by buggins0402

[LHT28]

Which tactics are you referring to? You can easily ignore the art sales and cameras (the photographers eventually get the message that you don't want your photo taken). Upselling on the liquor does appear to be creeping to be par for the course though...

 

I would agree with BUGGINS they have 2 ships ... then they seem to charter one after the itineraries are released

 

Yes I guess you can avoid the photographers & art sales but when you are used to not having those it still can be annoying

 

It is always a case of what works best for you

 

YMMV

 

Let's not make this about Azamara VS Oceania thread people can go to the Azamara forum & bash them there

 

Edited September 11, 2015 by LHT28

[cbb]

nah...."slow" meaning in about 7-9 day cruise one would see about 3 ports; with O, most of those days (depending on geography, of course) would be in a port. We just didn't have enough port time with Crystal.

 

BTW....we like river cruising. Danube and Rhine, Rhone and Duoro....all have sweet little villages and lovely large historical towns and river cruising is a great way to travel if you prefer DIY exploring as we do.

[roger b]

Do you mean stay there just long enough to get robbed but not long enough to see anything? :D

 

Those that were mugged did not think it was a joke!!! and we were there a full day all I can say is your safety should be paramount, personally I would be happy to leave either of the two ports mentioned early.

[hondorner]

Alternatives -- we can never go "back" to land touring, as we never did any in the first place. Unpacking every night and packing every morning is not on my list of things to do.

 

The "big" ships -- the largest new ships on many cruise lines -- will never be in the picture for us, either. Azamara will never be a choice for us -- 'nough said about that.

 

We have sailed 34 days on NCL's "smaller" ships, Jewel and Star, and will do so again for 11 days in November. We managed to get to Platinum in those 34 days (10 points for a 10 day cruise, 72 points for a 24 day cruise -- 24 extra for booking early and 24 more for a suite -- Platinum is 75). The food is acceptable, we don't use any of the extra cost specialty restaurants, the service is better than expected, the cabins are clean, the entertainment is good, the excursions are much cheaper, and the smoking is restricted enough as long as one stays away from the casino. Dining is open and ress is causal. And, it's much less money! None of the changes in fees affect us as we don't use the "features".

 

River cruising -- our one cruise on the Rehin was acceptable, and we'd do more if they weren't so far away. But, our "go to" river cruising has become American Queen Steamboat Company -- we just completed our 5th voyage since 2012.

 

Without having to unpack and pack, the only modes of traveling are cruises and our RV. There's still so much of the USA we haven't seen.

We did a 4 month cross country trip in 2011 and have done at least a month road trip most years before and since. Most include a cruise in the middle -- we just got home from a 34 day road trip with an 8 day Mississippi River cruise in the middle for our 50th anniversary.

 

We do have a 13 day river cruise on Scenic on the Mekong River (Siam Reap, Cambodia to Saigon, with air), in August of '16, but I have a "cancel for any reason" policy on it.

 

If cruising becomes too burdensome or unattractive or expensive, we'll just stick with the RV. The big difference is we have to make our own bed and pick up our own towels...

 

BUT -- in the meantime, as long as we can afford it, we'll stick with Oceania. I haven't seen the types of changes in this discussion on my O cruises, but the last one was in May, 2014. Like CBB, there have not been many changes in the 2016 world cruise on which we're booked, and the few that have changed have been for valid reasons. We get a free O cruise when we return from that, and then we'll take a hard look. We don't cruise for the ports so much as we do for the ship and cruise itself (one of our favorites was 12 days from Copenhagen to Miami with one port stop in the Azores), so port time changes don't affect us. Most of the time our excursions (ship or private) are half day and we're back on the ship in time for a late lunch. It's very, very rare for us to care when the ship arrives or departs.

[buggins0402]

BTW....we like river cruising. Danube and Rhine, Rhone and Duoro....all have sweet little villages and lovely large historical towns and river cruising is a great way to travel if you prefer DIY exploring as we do.

 

Interesting you say that River cruises are great for DIY'ers. I might have to give them more consideration. I was always under the impression they were like those package bus tours in Europe, only on a river boat instead of a bus...and all the sightseeing was included guided tours, which isn't our travel style.

[alaskaca]

For those on the Amazon Adventure 25 day cruise, check your email.

Hours have been adjusted again. It would appear that there has been a change of heart with the original itinerary revision. Maybe someone is reading Cruise Critic:D

[Hunding]

Interesting you say that River cruises are great for DIY'ers. I might have to give them more consideration. I was always under the impression they were like those package bus tours in Europe, only on a river boat instead of a bus...and all the sightseeing was included guided tours, which isn't our travel style.

 

Most, or all, of the "included guided tours" -- if they are included -- are optional. You are certainly not obligated to go on them. Many river cruise pax go off on their own -- no problem.

[cbb]

re river cruises: as stated above, the tours of the town are included in the cost and sometimes are nice to participate in because you can skip ahead of the lines to get into someplace that the town is famous for or can use the included tour as a way to get into town center.

 

Otherwise, we walk off the little gangplank, walk into town and do our own thing. If we do go with the group, there is often a "fast" walkers, or alternatively a "slow" walkers group and after we see the things we want to see we strike off on our own.

 

I usually tell our guide that we are leaving in case he/she has taken a head count. If we are moored some distance away, I ask where we can meet up with them for the return trip back to ship.

 

We have used O ship excursions this way sometimes; skipping a line for something, especially if we couldn't get the tickets online, is great. Then we go off on our own. Yes, it is an expensive way to get into town, but then sometimes you have to pay for what you want.

[MVPinBoynton]

And river cruise tours do allow for a nice amount of free time in town normally.

[wripro]

Donna,

Most of us are not that naive that we do not understand the concept of the bottom line or the importance of it. But there is a right way to do this and the wrong way to do it.

The right way would be either to do it on future cruises that are not on the books yet or if it had to be done now then being more upfront and honest about it (for example, do it before final payment and let people have a choice whether to cancel or stay).

The wrong way to do it is to sneak it in after final payments hoping that nobody would notice or care and when questioned, claim that it is just a few minor changes here and there on only a few cruises , having no effect at all while the fact is that most current cruises are effected - some more than others. Even blaming the changes on changing tides :D

 

Quote from Oceania's website (underlining mine):

 

Core Values

At Oceania Cruises, we do things the R.I.T.E. way – Respect, Integrity, Trust and Excellence are the foundation of all our actions, every day, in everything we do

 

Of the R.I.T.E way, the first 3 values are currently taking a serious hit.

 

Completely agree.Paul. It's the underhandedness that upsets me more than anything.

[Paulchili]

And river cruise tours do allow for a nice amount of free time in town normally.

 

Yes - river cruises are great for itineraries as you can visit inland destinations not accessible by Ocean liners.

The onboard life overall (boat facilities, food options/quality, ambiance, entertainment, cabins) in general pale in comparison to Ocean cruises (esp. with Oceania).

There is room for both for different reasons and purposes.

[sammiedawg]

Yes - river cruises are great for itineraries as you can visit inland destinations not accessible by Ocean liners.

The onboard life overall (boat facilities, food options/quality, ambiance, entertainment, cabins) in general pale in comparison to Ocean cruises (esp. with Oceania).

There is room for both for different reasons and purposes.

 

While we enjoyed the overall river cruise experience for the interior ports, in no way was it on par with an ocean cruise for the reasons stated by Paul. Oceania blows Viking river cruises out of the water. The first River cruise night we dined with a well traveled couple and they said out loud what I was thinking about the food, service and ambience. Their exact words were "well we know this is not Oceania".

[sammiedawg]

I think you're right that Oceania is trying to drive more people to take ship's excursions. I'm looking at the introduction of the OLife excursion benefit and the recent tendency to make last minute changes after final payment, which means the private tour types have to scramble to revise arrangements already in place. I think Oceania is coping with the inevitable consequences their early branding.

 

Your world. Your way. An emphasis on itineraries rather than ice-skating/rock climbing walls/wave pools. The result of those decisions has been to attract cruisers who are deeply passionate about their time off the ship in spite of enjoying their time on the ship. Until recently, Oceania has been able to offer this group a good "home": interesting itineraries coupled with longer port times and no included excursions. But the economics have changed and Oceania is making fewer classic Oceania-style decisions.

 

Corporate seems to think that despite the complaining, the itinerary-passionate types will feel they have no other cruise line that is a good fit. And that may be true, if we're considering ocean-going cruises only. But river cruising is looking good: newer, more upscale ships and in-depth itineraries of a smaller area. And independent travel has never lost its appeal.

 

We're heading to Cuba in December, and, next summer, we're hosting our immediate family for a milestone anniversary celebration in the US. As a result, we haven't thought about another major trip for the rest of 2016. Our existing plans coupled with our disenchantment with Oceania's recent behavior mean we are throwing our Oceania print catalogs in the trash, typically without even opening them. Is that what Oceania wants from people who have not cruised with another ocean-going line since the day Oceania was founded?

 

IMO the O life program rolled out in response to The launch of Viking oceans, which is a more inclusive product. I much prefer a la carte choices for either DIY or private tours but we did upgrade for a modest price one of our O cruises next year. IMO O life is a trial balloon.

 

I have limited interest in land touring of more than a few days, it is exhausting to ride around on buses, trains and check in and out of hotels.

 

We did one fourteen night River cruise of Europe last summer, in no way did the food, service, ambience compare to an O cruise. I disliked the regimentation of everyone eating at the same time, going on excursions at the same time, returning to the small riverboat at the same time.

[avalong]

IMO the O life program rolled out in response to The launch of Viking oceans, which is a more inclusive product. I much prefer a la carte choices for either DIY or private tours but we did upgrade for a modest price one of our O cruises next year. IMO O life is a trial balloon.

 

I have limited interest in land touring of more than a few days, it is exhausting to ride around on buses, trains and check in and out of hotels.

 

We did one fourteen night River cruise of Europe last summer, in no way did the food, service, ambience compare to an O cruise. I disliked the regimentation of everyone eating at the same time, going on excursions at the same time, returning to the small riverboat at the same time.

 

I understand that on Uniworld river cruises they have open dining, which is why, when I finally decide to try river cruising, it will be with Uniworld.

Edited September 11, 2015 by avalong