Cheapening the product

[rsquare]

I just returned from an Aegean cruise on Queen Victoria, and I saw signs of Cunard’s cheapening its product. It may be that these have always been there, and I am just noticing them because they form a contrast with more recent experiences on other lines. Whether or not they are recent, they add up to a disincentive to pursue future cruising on Cunard.

 

The kinds of things that I am talking about are small touches which one might expect on a luxury or premium cruise line, and not on a mass market line. They are trivial in and of themselves, but they detract from the experience, and in my opinion leave Cunard more reliant on its image of English heritage to distinguish its brand than on what is actually delivered.

 

Small examples are the limited range of breakfast omelets available in Britannia, just ham, cheese and mushroom as I recall, with the cheese not otherwise named, but presumably cheddar. I can find more imaginative choices than this in my local diner. Shirts sent out to be laundered no longer have the option of being returned folded but always come back on hangars. Room service breakfast menus have deleted omelets and croissants as check-off options, although (so far) they will still be delivered if written in. The bedtime chocolates have shrunk by 30 or 40%. Britannia has no sugar-free dessert options available, unlike its presumably more humble sister company Holland-America, and the cheeses on the cheese tray are not ever named on either the menu or the plate; they seem like mass-market processed cheeses, not what one might find at a fine cheese shop. The variety of bread rolls in Britannia is limited to white, brown or seeded, in contrast to the cheese rolls and breadsticks which one finds on Celebrity. Also unlike HAL or Celebrity, Cunard does not provide a cloth tote bag on cruises. And at one port on my recent QV cruise, shuttle service from dock to town was free for all except those on saver fares, who were charged.

 

And maybe I am just noticing this after a cruise on a blessedly loudspeaker-free Crystal ship, but there is always some sort of light pop music playing in the public rooms; often these are vocals which impede concentration if one is reading a book.

 

I appreciate that Cunard is not to be compared with genuine luxury cruise lines such as Crystal; on a per-day basis, my Crystal oceanview cost 70% more than my QV balcony. But I think that the small touches which I find lacking on Cunard would not add substantially to its costs or fares; Crystal needs to charge far more because all drinks, alcoholic or non, are included in the fare, their loyalty program is more generous (e.g., an hour a day of free internet on one’s second Crystal cruise) and their ships carry half the passengers that Cunard does. What is far more disturbing is how far behind many of the mass-market cruise lines Cunard has fallen. A glorious heritage, a stagy Britishness and some snobbery about its more formal atmosphere cannot counterbalance the cheese-paring that I now see on Cunard.

 

Does this mean that I am no longer a Cunard customer? No; I will continue to do my yearly TA on the Mary because the service and the ship are unique. But I can’t see ever taking another cruise (as opposed to crossing) on Cunard.

[rafinmd]

It's interesting how people see things. I'll have one factual correction and a few observations:

 

Crystal (as of a few weeks ago) gives an hour of free internet daily starting with the FIRST cruise.

 

Things change all the time on all cruise lines. I can remember when Crystal had a string trio that strolled through the dining room playing requests, they no longer do that and the trio in general has been replaced by a piano-violin duo. I noticed in particular your mention of pillow chocolates shrinking, while on Crystal they were completely eliminated a few years ago.

 

Things change. Often we bemoan what is lost while taking for granted what is gained. I'm relatively recent with Cunard but can remember when cruise lines had a row of attendants waiting at the gangway embarkation day to escort people to their rooms. What doesn't get mentioned is that boarding probably started about 2PM then and the people who used to greet them are now taking care of lunch and other things.

 

All cruise lines have been trying to economize, it isn't just a Cunard thing by any means.

 

Roy

[Lanky Lad]

I had noticed the chocolate size had reduced on my last few cruises so I think it must be about 12 months since the shrank.

 

The shuttle bus charge has been in for about 18 months and is to encourage people to book the more expensive Cunard fare.

 

I could come up with a long list of those nice touches that have vanished since my first trip on QE2 back in 1991.

 

The price has not changed that much though so I am no complaining.

[ellie1145]

We love afternoon tea on Cunard and last year on QE it was superb.

 

This year on QV instead of individual jars of jam and a small dish of cream we were given the same small cream dish with a smear of jam and a tiny roll of cream, insufficient for a scone. Not a deal breaker but a sign of cuts I presume.

 

We also missed the wonderful young pianist on QE last year who was not only an amazing musician who compiled a wide variety of music, from classical to 'Frozen' but had such personaity, and was always happy to chat or play requests. This year the pianist was rarely seen and certainly seemed to have no rapport with passengers.

 

But did it spoil our cruise? No way! We had a fantastic time and would sail on QE or QV in a heartbeat.

Edited September 9, 2015 by ellie1145

[navybankerteacher]

I had noticed the chocolate size had reduced on my last few cruises so I think it must be about 12 months since the shrank.

 

The shuttle bus charge has been in for about 18 months and is to encourage people to book the more expensive Cunard fare.

 

I could come up with a long list of those nice touches that have vanished since my first trip on QE2 back in 1991.

 

The price has not changed that much though so I am no complaining.

 

The sad fact is that the bean counters have been continually finding little savings here, there and everywhere so as to be able to offer fares which will fill the ever-growing number of berths. One wonders if they will hit a wall - beyond which they cannot go, and start raising fares to maintain quality, or simply continue to nibble away at the edges of quality; perhaps even announce a campaign to restore previous amenities (unlikely third option).

 

I've noticed the shrinking chocolate -as well as Holland America's increasingly diluted fresh orange juice. Frankly, I would be willing to pay more to stop the erosion.

[balf]

. One wonders if they will hit a wall - beyond which they cannot go, .

 

 

What they could do.

 

Charge for room service

Coin operated laundry

No chocolates

Reduce WC benefits

Reduce number of cocktail receptions

Axe the Pol Acker (please)

 

Anything but realistic prices.

 

David.

[navy boy]

I fear that Cunard is following the experiment that Carnival have carried out on P&O over the last few years by cutting and cutting our cruise experience.

There is a long way to go yet, on Britannia the headline act can only be seen if a passenger pays extra in a restaurant where the act then performs, so the line can advertise a headline act prior to the cruise then gain extra revenue.

The plethora of pay extra restaurants, extra shops, pay extra events, franchising out such as the Spa is all examples of the Carnival approach which is been adopted and aggressively pushed.

 

A small chocolate is just the start

[Scrapnana]

We love afternoon tea on Cunard and last year on QE it was superb.

 

This year on QV instead of individual jars of jam and a small dish of cream we were given the same small cream dish with a smear of jam and a tiny roll of cream, insufficient for a scone. Not a deal breaker but a sign of cuts I presume.

 

I'm very sad to hear this. Sounds more like getting the scone in the Lido (but of course you can get as much jam and cream as want there ;)).

 

The plethora of pay extra restaurants, extra shops, pay extra events, franchising out such as the Spa is all examples of the Carnival approach which is been adopted and aggressively pushed.

 

Unfortunately, I think this is true of most, if not all, mainstream cruise lines, not just those under the Carnival Corp. umbrella.

[keithm]

I just returned from an Aegean cruise on Queen Victoria, and I saw signs of Cunard’s cheapening its product. It may be that these have always been there, and I am just noticing them because they form a contrast with more recent experiences on other lines. Whether or not they are recent, they add up to a disincentive to pursue future cruising on Cunard.

 

The kinds of things that I am talking about are small touches which one might expect on a luxury or premium cruise line, and not on a mass market line. They are trivial in and of themselves, but they detract from the experience, and in my opinion leave Cunard more reliant on its image of English heritage to distinguish its brand than on what is actually delivered.

 

Small examples are the limited range of breakfast omelets available in Britannia, just ham, cheese and mushroom as I recall, with the cheese not otherwise named, but presumably cheddar. I can find more imaginative choices than this in my local diner. Shirts sent out to be laundered no longer have the option of being returned folded but always come back on hangars. Room service breakfast menus have deleted omelets and croissants as check-off options, although (so far) they will still be delivered if written in. The bedtime chocolates have shrunk by 30 or 40%. Britannia has no sugar-free dessert options available, unlike its presumably more humble sister company Holland-America, and the cheeses on the cheese tray are not ever named on either the menu or the plate; they seem like mass-market processed cheeses, not what one might find at a fine cheese shop. The variety of bread rolls in Britannia is limited to white, brown or seeded, in contrast to the cheese rolls and breadsticks which one finds on Celebrity. Also unlike HAL or Celebrity, Cunard does not provide a cloth tote bag on cruises. And at one port on my recent QV cruise, shuttle service from dock to town was free for all except those on saver fares, who were charged.

 

And maybe I am just noticing this after a cruise on a blessedly loudspeaker-free Crystal ship, but there is always some sort of light pop music playing in the public rooms; often these are vocals which impede concentration if one is reading a book.

 

I appreciate that Cunard is not to be compared with genuine luxury cruise lines such as Crystal; on a per-day basis, my Crystal oceanview cost 70% more than my QV balcony. But I think that the small touches which I find lacking on Cunard would not add substantially to its costs or fares; Crystal needs to charge far more because all drinks, alcoholic or non, are included in the fare, their loyalty program is more generous (e.g., an hour a day of free internet on one’s second Crystal cruise) and their ships carry half the passengers that Cunard does. What is far more disturbing is how far behind many of the mass-market cruise lines Cunard has fallen. A glorious heritage, a stagy Britishness and some snobbery about its more formal atmosphere cannot counterbalance the cheese-paring that I now see on Cunard.

 

Does this mean that I am no longer a Cunard customer? No; I will continue to do my yearly TA on the Mary because the service and the ship are unique. But I can’t see ever taking another cruise (as opposed to crossing) on Cunard.

I hate saying it,but the food in the Eclipse MDR(Celebrity)was vastly superior to that in Britannia on the QV. It was generally superior to Britannia on the QM2 as well. As to the 2 times we cruised the Grills..Totally top notch,however we can't do the Grills often. On Celebrity you have a extra Al a Carte menu with the room service breakfast menu. Not sure Cunard offers this, but a good idea.

[pris993]

I hate saying it,but the food in the Eclipse MDR(Celebrity)was vastly superior to that in Britannia on the QV. It was generally superior to Britannia on the QM2 as well. As to the 2 times we cruised the Grills..Totally top notch,however we can't do the Grills often. On Celebrity you have a extra Al a Carte menu with the room service breakfast menu. Not sure Cunard offers this, but a good idea.

 

Everyone sees things differently. We are elite on Princess and Celebrity... yet, I find the MDR on Celebrity so crowded and noisy I skip, never found the food or service on Celebrity as good as what I experience on Princess, Holland America, and Cunard was far superior in the MDR to all of them on my last two cruises on the QV... which was a few years ago. Going on the OM2 in 3 weeks, will see how it compares now. LOL

[BlueRiband]

If you want an answer, take a look at 1991 fares and see how they compare to those 24 years later:Cunard Discounts Transatlantic Fares on QE2

 

Now, you were asking about a cheapening product on Cunard ships? There aren't enough passengers willing to pay the prices needed to sustain five day crossings and past levels or services and amenities. And someone posted with glee when a $799 TA was offered. It's always about the money. Premium services and discounted prices don't co-exist for long.

Edited September 10, 2015 by BlueRiband

[rsquare]

If you want an answer, take a look at 1991 fares and see how they compare to those 24 years later:Cunard Discounts Transatlantic Fares on QE2

 

Now, you were asking about a cheapening product on Cunard ships? There aren't enough passengers willing to pay the prices needed to sustain five day crossings and past levels or services and amenities. And someone posted with glee when a $799 TA was offered. It's always about the money. Premium services and discounted prices don't co-exist for long.

 

Recall that I was talking about cruising, not crossing. The regular transatlantic service is unique to Cunard, and is carried out with a purpose-built vessel. But Cunard's cruising operations exist in a very competitive, highly segmented market where it is usually not too difficult to read the price-value equation for different lines.

 

My point was that Cunard is slipping not only relative to its aspirations of being a premium or entry-luxury cruise line, but even relative to mass-market competitors such as HAL and Celebrity which lack such aspirations. I don't see how it can maintain its positioning as a high-end cruising experience without differentiating the product more from its mass-market peers. Cunard memorabilia and formal nights alone will not do it.

[crossingfan]

I can't imagine any major cruise line not offering sugar free or no sugar added desserts in the main dining room. If its true that this option has been deleted they will many unhappy passengers!

[navybankerteacher]

If you want an answer, take a look at 1991 fares and see how they compare to those 24 years later:Cunard Discounts Transatlantic Fares on QE2

 

Now, you were asking about a cheapening product on Cunard ships? There aren't enough passengers willing to pay the prices needed to sustain five day crossings and past levels or services and amenities. And someone posted with glee when a $799 TA was offered. It's always about the money. Premium services and discounted prices don't co-exist for long.

 

Those fares of 24 years ago tell it all: the prices have not moved (except possibly downwards). Cheap is nice, so perhaps we should just be happy with it - or switch to premium lines.

[tv24]

IMHO, anyone who thinks Cunard cruising is anything above mass market is living in a dream world. Comparisons to Crystal or other true luxury lines will not match up. Cunard cruising is truly comparable to Holland America, Celebrity, or Princess. Enjoy it for what it is, and don't try to imagine it to be something it isn't. If you want luxury, you'll just have to pay more. And I have to say we love our crossings on the QMII, but we avoid the pitfalls.

[navy boy]

I am very pleased to see rsquare differentiate between QM2 crossings and cruising. The days of needing ships for emigration and mass transportation are gone. The vast bulk of passengers are now holiday makers and this requires the lines to offer a transparent holiday product which is not financially manipulated in such a manner that the customer (passenger) is left feeling their hard worked for holiday has been used as an opportunity to fleece them. If this continues I feel it likely that a wall could be hit and the cruising bubble could burst.

 

On these forums I have previously mentioned that cruise lines seem to desire the ships to be run along the lines of shopping centers where passengers are seen as trapped wallets to be squeezed at every opportunity. Each small change in the quality of product delivery re-enforces this feeling for me. I don't want to feel this, as it effects my enjoyment of some of the most enjoyable periods of my year, but the approach is now so obvious and it needs to change from been purely profit driven to one where genuine customer happiness is the target.

 

Better feedback forms towards the end of cruises would help if the providers actually, genuinely listened to what passengers want and acted on it. Currently the company feedback product we are asked to complete is a tick box affair which appears to give the passenger a say but actually has been designed to pat themselves on the back.

 

Passengers can choose to go or not, we do not have to go, we could spend our money elsewhere. Cruising has a genuine alternative appeal, that of sea travel, but if the lines continue to slice the product the bubble could burst, if the worldwide banking sector can go bang Carnival had better believe they can too and as they get bigger they get more susceptible to it.

 

If we need to pay a little more then so be it, but, Carnival, perhaps you better deliver what we genuinely want!

[balf]

IMHO, anyone who thinks Cunard cruising is anything above mass market is living in a dream world.

 

 

Dropping the "Fabled White Star Service" would be a welcome start.

 

David.

[ToadOfToadHall]

Here's a picture of the chocolates I took in 2013 (compared with a 2012 one):

 

[bluemarble]

Dropping the "Fabled White Star Service" would be a welcome start.

 

David.

 

I think scrapping that "new golden age of ocean travel" marketing slogan might be in order as well. We have only been cruising since 2005 and only on mass-market lines in the equivalent of Britannia class, so I can't comment on what sailing was like during the original "golden age of ocean travel". We love Cunard, but haven't found that the level of service or amenities on Cunard differ significantly from what we have experienced on other mass-market lines. I don't think maintaining fixed-time dining with a formal dress code in the MDR is quite enough to truly harken back to those earlier times.

 

Regards,

John.

[keithm]

Everyone sees things differently. We are elite on Princess and Celebrity... yet, I find the MDR on Celebrity so crowded and noisy I skip, never found the food or service on Celebrity as good as what I experience on Princess, Holland America, and Cunard was far superior in the MDR to all of them on my last two cruises on the QV... which was a few years ago. Going on the OM2 in 3 weeks, will see how it compares now. LOL

Have you done the Solstice class ships? I certainly didn't find their MDR more crowded than Britannia. I found Britannia on the QV to be more crowded & noisy than the MDR on the Eclipse. Celebrity has their "Celebrity Favorites" didn't see anything like that on any of the Cunard trips we took. I certainly appreciated the more formal styles of dress on Cunard,though the Eclipse(I think,unique among Celebrity ships)comes pretty close. I think due to the 14 day trips v/s 7-10 day trips on their other ships. Sorry, but the Celebrity food HAS been better than Britannia, with the exception of cruising Cunard 2004-2008. After that the food was still good but certainly dumbed down a bit. Service,however was always excellent.

[Alibobs]

I am not an expert on cruising by any means but I like the Cunard brand......and I certainly cannot fault the value for money a saver fare offers

 

I remember the chocolate shrinkage.....on our second QM trip ( I think) we actually had some large and some smaller chocolates for turn down.......

[Bell Boy]

Here's a picture of the chocolates I took in 2013 (compared with a 2012 one):

 

 

Can we put this chocolate size saga, once and for all to bed please

 

This has been covered on more than one occasion on these boards. The reduction in size hasn't anything to do with cutbacks. The original larger size for many years were produced in the USA, where almost everything has to be big and bold;).

 

The new smaller version is a premium chocolate,it was sourced from a European chocolate manufacturer, and I must say they certainly taste a lot nicer !:)

 

I noticed recently Seabourn appear to have moved over to this product . Being part of the Carnival enterprise ,I suppose we could expect P&O to be the next to follow.

[ToadOfToadHall]

I think the larger and smaller chocolates taste exactly the same. Having had some US chocolate only last year, it was so foul and far too sweet it went in the bin - it was horrible, so I can't believe the larger Cunard chocolates were made in the US, unless they were using a European recipe.

[pkpon]

If I am honest I did find the food and service disappointing in the Britannia restaurant last year on the QV.

 

Next year I have booked Britannia Club on the QE which I understand would be the equivalent of the Columbia/ Caronia restaurant on the QE2.

 

I have always loved Cunard and they are still my favourite cruise line.

[alc13]

The effort required to make thousands of people feel relaxed, comfortable, and well-served at the same time is staggering. And on top of that passengers must feel like they haven't overpaid for the experience; they want to believe they paid not just a fair price but a good price for it. At the same time the staff providing all that service have to be fairly compensated. Management faces an ongoing challenge trying to keep everyone happy and make a profit at the same time.

 

This looks like a classic free market struggle in a highly competitive field. If customers start drifting away from Cunard because they see too much product cheapening, Cunard/Carnival will respond; either by restoring some of the luster along with higher fares, by finding some new way to attract their disappearing customers without increasing fares, or by accepting and marketing to a new customer base.