Ala Carte items in MDR

[LMaxwell]

Why do you think cruise fares have not gone up as much as inflation?

 

All the cruise lines are pumping out megaliners which reduce overall cost of operations compared to smaller ships, reducing the fares (appeal to wider audience) and also they have to fill all those berths or generate no revenue. And it goes way beyond that. They can only charge what the market will stand. But if you compare prices now to a year or two ago, the industry as a whole has gotten a lot more pricing power with higher average fares, less last minute discounting, etc. The single biggest variable cost for operating a cruise ship is fuel. Cruise lines are purchasing up fuel futures at a furious rate while prices are low, and they have now been low enough long enough for cruise lines to start to reap those rewards. I don't begrudge cruise lines making a profit, but they're all sitting pretty flush right now but still acting as if they need to appeal to the bottom dollar, bottom of the barrel cruiser and make everything else an optional extra.

[Hendricks Clan]

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g150807-i8-k5364423-What_does_all_inclusive_means_exactly-Cancun_Yucatan_Peninsula.html look at this

 

So you posted a link to another message board...really? Once again food is included in the price of my NCL fare, the specialty restaurants are an added option that one doesn't have to pay for so to say food isn't included in the fare is laughable.

[NLH Arizona]

I think people would be ok had they gone about this in a better way, like Carnival maybe. On Carnival one can still get a free steak or lobster on the menu, but one can get an even better one for an upcharge. I think had NCL kept the original prime rib, but added the new one as an uncharge people wouldn't be so upset.

See I look at it a different way. Instead of ordering the upcharge item, folks will just ask for two of the free prime rib entrees and if the servers said no, they you can bet that all heck would be raised. I think they would have been better served to take the prime rib off the menu and then add it to the upcharge menu in a year. They could have put a nice filet on the upcharge menu, which I think would have been perfectly acceptable.

[LMaxwell]

And you are absolutely correct, I would guess if the upcharge items go really well, NCL might add some upgraded upcharged appetizers and desserts and why not if folks are will to pay for them. If it was my business I would do the same.

 

Somehow I have the hunch if it were your business you would offer new and truly premium items for an upcharge.

 

You probably would not take something already on the free app menu, remove it from the free side, simply make it larger, and charge for it.

 

To me that's a big difference.

 

Point being if they want to upcharge something, it should be a new/premium item. Don't just give me a bigger portion of something you used to include at no extra charge, and charge for it and act like "well, it's bigger, so it's not really what we had before."

Edited November 7, 2015 by LMaxwell

[NLH Arizona]

I like the idea of paying a little bit more in the fare and having a much more inclusive style of vacation that is relaxing and more care free and less like WORK. :cool:

You might like it, but I bet you would have a lot of opposition, because many like the lower fares and want to choose what they spend their money on.

 

I still cruise on Crystal, but not so much since they went almost all inclusive. It cost me more now and I'm paying for others to drink, etc., instead of getting any addition benefit to me. I wish they would go back to how it use to be, before they went almost all inclusive.

[LMaxwell]

Instead of ordering the upcharge item, folks will just ask for two of the free prime rib entrees and if the servers said no, they you can bet that all heck would be raised.

 

I totally agree with you 100% on this. That's probably why no "free" version exists. And it is what makes me think an MDR limit of items is coming. Why get an upcharge item if I can order 4 non-upcharge items sample all? But if I can only choose 1...well, then if the upcharge is the most appealing maybe I cave in.

[NLH Arizona]

I totally agree with you 100% on this. That's probably why no "free" version exists. And it is what makes me think an MDR limit of items is coming. Why get an upcharge item if I can order 4 non-upcharge items sample all? But if I can only choose 1...well, then if the upcharge is the most appealing maybe I cave in.

Bingo on your second sentence. I don't think they will limit the number of items, because they are not in competition with the upcharge items....either someone is going to order lobster or prime rib or they are not.

[LMaxwell]

You might like it, but I bet you would have a lot of opposition, because many like the lower fares and want to choose what they spend their money on.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. Sure, low fares SOUNDS nice, until you think of the concept of purchase power and see how just a few dollars more across everyone on the ship can yield far greater return than just spending that money on your own could. Egalitarian isn't quite the proper word here, but it is late and that is what comes to mind;and that is cruising used to be a lot more egalitarian. No matter what cabin you had the same high quality food, no upcharges. The same entertainment for all; no upcharges. A lot of people may jump for low price, but show them the big difference a small increment can make and they may not suddenly want the lowest price. You do not sound like a low price cruiser to me. You sound a lot like a value cruiser. You've mentioned budgets. I don't assume you are made of money, but you do have the ability to vacation how you please. You see value in this base cost plus plus model. I feel opposite because it changes the feeling to me. That's a very intangible and difficult thing to adequately convey and I can only hope my descriptions are coming across as intended. Maybe I just don't have a way with words or communicating as effectively as I wish.

 

I assure you, my cruise will not be ruined by these changes. But if I find they detract from my overall enjoyment and how *I* feel on vacation (it's not work, it's not day to day life, I don't need a floating hotel company to watch my diet, etc.) then I pull the ripcord. If the industry continues to move in that direction, I better go brush up on other styles of travel. Neither of us is wrong.

[Loonbeam]

Unfortunately, cruise pricing doesn't work that way. You cannot just raise the price of a perishable item.

 

Cruise rooms are perishable, in that if they do not sell by a certain date, they have $0 value and still have a fixed cost. This is why the lines spend a large amount of money on systems designed to keep the cabin prices in line with demand. This is why cruise prices constantly change.

 

For the most part, cruisers are the ones to blame for this system. Chasing price drops, deals, lowest price TAs, maximum offers etc means the lines have to look at other areas to make profits (much the same as the airlines do). It's also why they break out the grats and don't add them to the fare. They don't control the fare as much as people think they do.

 

That is what I would like to see! Just up the price $50pp and forget all these additional charges! The additional fees just tick people off. I would think in the long run it would be more profitable just raising the cruise cost since not all take advantage of all the upcharge items anyway. Raise the price and do away with the room service fee and the upcharges for the MDR items. Also, raise the price of the specialty dining rooms and do away with the a la carte menu. This will bring us back to knowing what our price is before we board without having to be concerned with additional charges.

[Greciangirl]

Has anyone cruised and confirmed either way that the udp (not the sdp) are exempt from the upcharges in the mdr? And slightly off topic what about the fcc's where they were advertising you could select the udp, has that changed to the sdp now? Im not particularly happy with the changes but I dont cruise until January so who knows what will happen between now and then. Whatever happens or doesnt happen will determine whether Ncl will be my choice of cruiselines. I'll reserve judgement until after my cruise.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[sparks1093]

Some of the new menu choices look appealing, but to me the value diminishes when something that was included in my cruise fare is removed from the complimentary choices and becomes a for fee upgrade. I've called Carnival and Royal out for similar, but not identical, business decisions.

 

Was the previous prime rib 16 oz? No. Could I get prime rib without paying additional? Yes. Could I get additional if I could handle 16 oz total without paying more? Yes. Can I get prime rib in the MDR now without paying additional? No.

 

Like I said, offering new options at an upcharge; I don't love it, but I get it. But removing an included offering and charging for it reduces value for me. Some people think it increases value because there are more options. But for me anything that takes from my wallet to get what I had already been getting, reduces value. That doesn't make me right and you wrong, it shows a difference of perspective.

 

If I'm not mistaken (and I admit that I might be) those surcharge items have been available for a surcharge before now- in the specialty restaurants. Now that the specialty restaurants are going a la carte they can add them to the MDR menu without affecting the bookings in the specialties.

 

I fully understand your feelings of reduced value with all of the changes being added together.

[sparks1093]

Or they could say nothing and up cruise prices $50pp.

 

That is what I would like to see! Just up the price $50pp and forget all these additional charges! The additional fees just tick people off. I would think in the long run it would be more profitable just raising the cruise cost since not all take advantage of all the upcharge items anyway. Raise the price and do away with the room service fee and the upcharges for the MDR items. Also, raise the price of the specialty dining rooms and do away with the a la carte menu. This will bring us back to knowing what our price is before we board without having to be concerned with additional charges.

 

They've raised their prices much more that $50pp and intend to raise them even more (read one of the threads about the Bloomberg article).

[newmexicoNita]

Unfortunately, cruise pricing doesn't work that way. You cannot just raise the price of a perishable item.

 

Cruise rooms are perishable, in that if they do not sell by a certain date, they have $0 value and still have a fixed cost. This is why the lines spend a large amount of money on systems designed to keep the cabin prices in line with demand. This is why cruise prices constantly change.

 

For the most part, cruisers are the ones to blame for this system. Chasing price drops, deals, lowest price TAs, maximum offers etc means the lines have to look at other areas to make profits (much the same as the airlines do). It's also why they break out the grats and don't add them to the fare. They don't control the fare as much as people think they do.

 

now your explanation shows a person who understands the business. Good post

[newmexicoNita]

I am still trying to understand why some of you are so upset about this? Have you even bothered to look at the new menues? ok, so you won't get your beloved Prime Rib, but look at all the other options there are? If anyone can say, there is nothing on the menu I even like, you must be a pretty darn picky eater.....I am excited about trying some of the new items in the MDRS. Other than our 2 free dinners for being platinum I doubt we will eat anywhere else.

[sparks1093]

I am still trying to understand why some of you are so upset about this? Have you even bothered to look at the new menues? ok, so you won't get your beloved Prime Rib, but look at all the other options there are? If anyone can say, there is nothing on the menu I even like, you must be a pretty darn picky eater.....I am excited about trying some of the new items in the MDRS. Other than our 2 free dinners for being platinum I doubt we will eat anywhere else.

 

It is the totatality of changes that is still upsetting to some, not this one issue by itself.

[david_sobe]

I am still trying to understand why some of you are so upset about this? Have you even bothered to look at the new menues? ok, so you won't get your beloved Prime Rib, but look at all the other options there are? If anyone can say, there is nothing on the menu I even like, you must be a pretty darn picky eater.....I am excited about trying some of the new items in the MDRS. Other than our 2 free dinners for being platinum I doubt we will eat anywhere else.

I don't see many people being "upset". I think people are just writing about their reactions to these changes and yes some don't agree they are a great idea. I don't eat lobster and not a big prime rib fan here. But I understand these standard dishes on cruise lines and many veteran cruisers will be festered by having to pay extra for these items in the MDR. Prime rib has even been included in the buffet. Its not the expensive to feed the masses with. I do agree that NCL have upgraded the MDR menus. Ironically the quality of the MDR increased while the quality in the specialty restaurants has declined at the same time their prices have went up considerably IMHO. I am disappointed (not upset) about the pot pie, chicken fingers, and cheese sticks being removed from the menu in O'Sheehans. I cruised earlier this year with NCL and with all the changes within the last few months I would not even know what to expect if I was to sail tomorrow. The UDP has changed so many times and I believe it does not even include some specialty restaurants now. It seems Del Rio is going well beyond his initial hope of getting $50 more from every passenger. I don't understand the service fees that are added because you ordered something in the MDR. I am even disappointed in seeing the Grammy experience go. Of course it is cheaper to hire your house blues band than bringing in grammy winners every few months and possibly even renting the memorabilia. There are lots of cut backs while at the same time price increases, fee increases, and gratuity increases. Its just frustrating to see NCL go so fast in this direction. Of course its going to rub loyal NCL cruises and newbies the wrong way.

Edited November 7, 2015 by david_sobe

[punkincc]

Has anyone cruised and confirmed either way that the udp (not the sdp) are exempt from the upcharges in the mdr? And slightly off topic what about the fcc's where they were advertising you could select the udp, has that changed to the sdp now? Im not particularly happy with the changes but I dont cruise until January so who knows what will happen between now and then. Whatever happens or doesnt happen will determine whether Ncl will be my choice of cruiselines. I'll reserve judgement until after my cruise.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

Since the UDP ( and SDP ) is a 'Specialty' dining package, it was not intended for use in any of the complimentary dining venues. Of course , none had 'upcharge' items until now, so I guess until someone gives it a try we would not have a definite answer. But until you see the MDR listed in the included venues in the terms and conditions of the UDP/SDP, or an * added at the bottom to indicate the change, I think you would be wasting your time.

[punkincc]

I don't understand the service fees that are added because you ordered something in the MDR..

 

 

Has this been confirmed?

 

I saw reference to it being indicated on the bottom of the menu, but the one I looked at just had a reference to the '18% Gratuity and Beverage Service Fee' which would be added if you ordered a drink from the bar.

 

I don't know how they could add the '18% Specialty Gratuity and Service Fee'' in the MDR, since the MDR is not a specialty venue. They would have to come up with a 'MDR Upcharge Gratuity and Service Fee' to cover that.;)

[SailBreakaway]

Our thoughts, That being the case, UDP is the answer. Dump the MDR and just dine at Cagneys, Le Bistro, etc. UDP now becomes a worth while investment. Agreed though, we're moving toward that airline a la carte philosophy, not a good thing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited November 7, 2015 by SailBreakaway

[david_sobe]

Has this been confirmed?

 

I saw reference to it being indicated on the bottom of the menu, but the one I looked at just had a reference to the '18% Gratuity and Beverage Service Fee' which would be added if you ordered a drink from the bar.

 

I don't know how they could add the '18% Specialty Gratuity and Service Fee'' in the MDR, since the MDR is not a specialty venue. They would have to come up with a 'MDR Upcharge Gratuity and Service Fee' to cover that.;)

You are probably right. With all the changes and new service fees and gratuities I cant keep track. I don't quite understand them and what they are for. :eek:

[LMaxwell]

Our thoughts, That being the case, UDP is the answer. Dump the MDR and just dine at Cagneys, Le Bistro, etc. UDP now becomes a worth while investment. Agreed though, we're moving toward that airline a la carte philosophy, not a good thing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

UDP no longer is being sold. Those that already have it can use it, but you no longer can purchase it. You can purchase SDP, but even that is subject to numerous upcharges.

[LMaxwell]

I am still trying to understand why some of you are so upset about this?

 

I thought I articulated my point well enough to be understood, but, again, it changes the feeling of a care free vacation for me. Once this is a success you will see upcharge items on apps and desserts.

 

Then that will lead to upcharge items on lunch and breakfast menus.

 

Then there will be specialty breakfast and lunches open to all with upcharges.

 

It's a slipperly slope. The more it looks like Disney World, the less inclined I am to book again. It is very clear the direction this is going.

[luvtheships]

That is what I would like to see! Just up the price $50pp and forget all these additional charges! The additional fees just tick people off. I would think in the long run it would be more profitable just raising the cruise cost since not all take advantage of all the upcharge items anyway. Raise the price and do away with the room service fee and the upcharges for the MDR items. Also, raise the price of the specialty dining rooms and do away with the a la carte menu. This will bring us back to knowing what our price is before we board without having to be concerned with additional charges.

 

 

But if they jump up the fee by $50 that's all they get but if they do these add on fees there is no telling what might happen

 

A pax may eat prime rib or lobster in the mdr every night

 

Or like me....won't pay the extra

 

The thing is by adding the mdr charges they could get lots more than $50 per pax

 

Or

 

Zero per pax

 

Of course what isn't being said here is that they absolutely did add $50 plus to the cruise prices that's obvious PLUS they are adding more and more up charge items PLUS they are enticing pax to book very early with fake free promos like ubp which are not free at all....and then still taking away stuff that was included when you booked

 

If prime rib was on the menu when you booked....it should either be taken completely off the menu ....or still be included for free

 

By keeping it on the menu but charging for it now is just showing pax the disdain Ncl actually has for their repeat cruisers

 

 

Newbies are totally clueless. Of course I've been saying for months Ncl wants to rid themselves of their savvy longtime cruisers and bring on newbies that can be brainwashed.

[jaja]

I thought I articulated my point well enough to be understood, but, again, it changes the feeling of a care free vacation for me. Once this is a success you will see upcharge items on apps and desserts.

 

Then that will lead to upcharge items on lunch and breakfast menus.

 

Then there will be specialty breakfast and lunches open to all with upcharges.

 

It's a slipperly slope. The more it looks like Disney World, the less inclined I am to book again. It is very clear the direction this is going.

 

Yes...!!!! It was always so relaxing to go on a cruise and KNOW what to expect...offerings, charges, services and not have to check prices on a menu or read all the fine print. Now it seems to be a "crap shoot" Some even suggest bringing the TOS from booking time in case there are problem (I for one do not want to spend time on vacation negotiating for what I think I should have) .

 

YES..I know things change and I know NCL is a business...all I am saying is that the product is changing so much, so fast that I, for one, may rethink vacation options after my next cruise--we will see.

 

.I booked in March...sailing next May...who knows what I will be entitled to then .

[LadySpoilt]

I do think the MDR concept is going to change and maybe sooner than later. Remember the specialty restaurants used to be X price (one set price) but has now gone to ala cart. I think the future of the MDR will go the same way as the original specialty concept. Previously the UDP enabled you to go to any specialty restaurant anytime. I think you will see the MDR eventually doing that as well. You can pay one set price (ultimate MDR Package) and use it all you want.

At that point it will be said, well if you don't want to pay more you can go the buffets for free. Remember that was said/and still said today, now being if you want free food go to MDR or buffets, only the venues will change. I think the next will be if you want MDR food you have to pay extra for it, if you want free food, go to the buffet.

Edited November 7, 2015 by LadySpoilt