Cancellation - being charged unreduced deposit on "reduced deposit" cruise?

[mkstewartesq]

Does anybody have any insight/advice into the following?

 

We booked a Jan 2016 cruise in August 5, 2015 under a WOW sale; the RC rep told us he would reduce the deposit from $200 to $100 and throw in some other freebies. I paid the $100 and, when the confirmation came in, I saw it said “Deposit of $200.00 is due by August 6 [next day]“, then, in blue, “Deposit amounts may vary by promotion”. The rep confirmed that no further payment was due August 6 (and, in fact, subsequent confirmations I got two months later in October reflecting some price adjustments still had this form language “Deposit of $200.00 is due by August 6”.)

 

In any event, we contacted the rep November 11 to take advantage of the BOGO offer, which explicitly provided for a 50% reduced deposit (off the standard $200 deposit) and an OBC; we actually ended up paying $200 MORE under this deal than before, but the OBC more than offset it.) So we are now paying under the BOGO/50% reduced deposit deal, and we made final payment that same day.

 

Now it looks like we may need to cancel, and are still within the “only lose your deposit” cancellation window. When I called RC to discuss, they told me ”if you cancel a reduced deposit booking, the cancellation fee is the full UNREDUCED deposit” (in my case, $200 rather than $100.) I spoke with Resolutions and asked them to point to me where this policy was stated in any of our confirmations or our cruise contract or on their website. They insist it is in the contract (it isn’t - the contract just says you lose your “deposit”) and finally just said “your original confirmation says ‘Deposit of $200.00 is due by August 6’. $200 is your deposit”. I pointed out that the deal terms even note - in two places - "booking confirmation will not reflect the reduced deposit", and they then said "a educed deposit isn't really a reduction in the deposit - it just means we are requiring you to pay less of the full deposit up front".

 

So they are basically ignoring that both my original deal and the more costly one I opted into were “reduced deposit” deals, and further citing to a policy regarding cancelling “reduced deposit” cruises that I cannot locate anywhere in my cruise documents or online.

 

Does anyone have any insight/advice?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Clarea]

When I look at my booking confirmation, it specifically lists the dollar amount of deposit that will be forfeited upon cancellation.

 

For example, we have a 10 day cruise in a JS coming up. On the booking confirmation, it says if I cancel 74 to 57 days prior to sailing I will lose $450pp. I only paid $100pp to book the cruise.

[Ocean Boy]

Very interesting issue. I had always thought in the past if a reservation was made under a reduced deposit offer that it was still the amount of the promotional deposit that was at risk if cancelling during that period. I have never before read or heard of someone having pay the penalty of a recalculated deposit. It will be interesting to read what others have to say.

 

Edit: I just read Clarea's response. Your confirmation may say that but what does the contract say? I don't have one to look at right now. I remember it as always referencing the deposit and nothing about an amount that would be specified in your booking confirmation.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Ocean Boy

[mkstewartesq]

When I look at my booking confirmation, it specifically lists the dollar amount of deposit that will be forfeited upon cancellation.

 

For example, we have a 10 day cruise in a JS coming up. On the booking confirmation, it says if I cancel 74 to 57 days prior to sailing I will lose $450pp. I only paid $100pp to book the cruise.

 

Well, there's part of the rub/confusion - mine says "100.00 Deposit Amount"; it doesn't say anything about "per person". I understand that this would be obvious one way or the other, if say, the total deposit was $500 and this line said "250.00 Deposit Amount", as obviously that would equal $500 (the total deposit) if both occupants cancelled. But recall that I am booked under a deal that expressly "reduces your deposit by 50%" yet erroneously still has the legend "Deposit of $200 due by August 6"; leading me to believe they are still calculating my ""100.00 Deposit" amount as if my total deposit were $200, not the $100 I booked at.

 

I reread the contract (and other documentation) several times, it only refers to the cancellation by reference to the term "deposit" - so not much clarity there (and certainly no statement that a reduced deposit cruise gets charged a full unreduced deposit as a "cancellation penalty", which is what the Resolution person expressly called it when I spoke to her.)

 

Thanks all for your assistance and thoughts so far. This is still clear as mud.

 

M

Edited December 3, 2015 by mkstewartesq

[TBone2K]

Don't forget you can always transfer your deposit to another cruise. In that case you might not get the deposit promotion and have to put in the extra dollars, but at least you won't be losing money.

[whitshel]

I know when I booked one of my cruises through a T/A and had a 1/2 deposit their confirmation basically said that rest of the deposit was due on final payment date as well as the final payment. So it may just be that the 1/2 off deposit is just differed until final payment, then even though you end up paying for the entire balance you are actually paying the rest of the deposit and the final payment. Hope that makes sense:confused:

[Ourusualbeach]

Don't forget you can always transfer your deposit to another cruise. In that case you might not get the deposit promotion and have to put in the extra dollars, but at least you won't be losing money.

 

After final payment you can't transfer to another cruise.

[Ourusualbeach]

I know when I booked one of my cruises through a T/A and had a 1/2 deposit their confirmation basically said that rest of the deposit was due on final payment date as well as the final payment. So it may just be that the 1/2 off deposit is just differed until final payment, then even though you end up paying for the entire balance you are actually paying the rest of the deposit and the final payment. Hope that makes sense:confused:

 

That is how I understood it as well.

[Kamloops50]

I have run into that on some reduced deposit sales.

[Ocean Boy]

I know when I booked one of my cruises through a T/A and had a 1/2 deposit their confirmation basically said that rest of the deposit was due on final payment date as well as the final payment. So it may just be that the 1/2 off deposit is just differed until final payment, then even though you end up paying for the entire balance you are actually paying the rest of the deposit and the final payment. Hope that makes sense:confused:

 

That is how I understood it as well.

 

That would make sense. So from RCI's perspective they are not really reducing the deposit but they are simply deferring the remainder of the deposit to be paid when the final payment is due. If that is the case then the OP is being charged appropriately for the cancellation.

[Kamloops50]

With a reduced deposit , you still pay the same fare balance at final payment. Fare isn't rediced just how much you pay upfront to reserve you cabin.

[sugcarol]

We are booked under the same 1/2 deposit They really are just deferring the balance of the deposit to the final payment amount, so in essence you are still paying 200.00 deposit. As for canceling under that promo, I understand the 200.00 deposit would come into play and the cruiseline is correct in what they are telling you.

[Merion_Mom]

After final payment you can't transfer to another cruise.

 

RC has been known to cut you some slack, SOMETIMES. It does not hurt to ask.

 

But ask through C&A, 800-526-9723

[Big_G]

Interesting, so it's not really a reduced deposit but partially deferred. Good to know. I hope it works out for you OP.

[mkstewartesq]

RC has been known to cut you some slack, SOMETIMES. It does not hurt to ask.

 

But ask through C&A, 800-526-9723

 

Thanks all. I will try the C&A number, just to give it a shot.

 

We all know RC "plays games' with pricing and sales, but this is a bit different to me. If they say the "deposit" is reduced by 50%, and that I owe the "deposit" if I cancel, then logically that to me means I owe the "reduced deposit" (as that was the only "deposit" I was charged and paid), and we (me and RC) agreed upfront that my "deposit" was 50% of the "normal" $200 deposit).

 

So saying the deposit is "reduced" is completely different from the rationale that it is really just "deferred" (in which case it isn't "reduced" at all, it's just the same amount split into two payments) - that's going a bit far for me as far as game-playing and veers toward dishonesty. Especially if there is no published policy like the one they cited regarding "reduced deposits pay a "full" deposit if they cancel".

 

But thank you all again, sincerely - I'll try C&A and see if they helps at all. I'll follow-up with what they say, just so you all know.

 

M

[CVU]

After final payment you can't transfer to another cruise.

If you have a "medical reason" Resolutions will work with you, "with a Dr. letter". They were great with us. We really wanted to take the cruise but life got in the way.:eek:

 

Good luck and thanks for the Heads Up, I am sure a lot on here will be interested in seeing what the outcome is. Anyone a Lawyer? LOL

Edited December 3, 2015 by CVU

[Ourusualbeach]

RC has been known to cut you some slack, SOMETIMES. It does not hurt to ask.

 

But ask through C&A, 800-526-9723

 

Absolutely agree with this. I have found Royal to be extremely compassionate and willing and o transfer cruise dates or provid full refunds after final payment in the case of severe illness or death in the family.

 

Not sure what the OP's situation is but they could plead their case. Nothing to lose and their deposit to gain.

[sugcarol]

I guess another way of checking is to book a dummy cruise, get the entire amount due, then deduct the normal deposit. That balance should not change.

 

For example

7 day cruise for two in balcony cabin=2000.00 including all tax. Less normal deposit 500.00.=1500.00 due at final payment. vs

 

7 day cruise for two in balcony=2000.00 including all tax. Less 1/2 deposit of 250.00=1750.00 due at final payment.

 

Both of these scenarios remain the same, Cruise is 2000.00

 

I call this fuzzy math but it is legal for them to do this, and we are willing to lose the entire deposit if we were to cancel.

Edited December 3, 2015 by sugcarol

[mkstewartesq]

Anyone a Lawyer? LOL

 

Well, actually . . . I am a lawyer (for reals - 18 years), and I specialize in contract law (note the "Esq" in my username.) :):)

 

And, as a lawyer, I don't think RC has a leg to stand on here, for all the reasons I stated. Either the "deposit" is $100 or it's $200 - but, once we've agreed on one, it can't be both depending on how RC feels on a given day, especially when they can't point to a policy to the contrary in their contract or anywhere else. And, yes, I do think the explicit statement in their advertising that "your deposit is reduced by 50%" is false advertising, especially when their refund policy states you lose your "deposit" but they try to claim the "deposit" is really 2X the "reduced deposit" in the deal you agreed to when you try to exercise your right to cancel.

 

But all that being said, I'm giving myself the exact same advice I would give my clients - you only "win" a case if the outcome is worth all of the trouble and expense you have to go through to get that outcome. And, at the end of the day, I'm obviously not going to file a lawsuit against RC over a hundred dollars; my out of pocket expense just to file would be a multiple of that, not to mention time, stress and so on - especially given that the contract obligates me to participate in arbitration (which I DO think is enforceable).

 

So, yeah - legally, I think they're wrong, but, knowing I'm not realistically going to fight it up to the Supreme Court over $100, that's why I came for some practical thoughts/experiences from all you fine folks who may have some real-world experience with these things (this would only be my second RC cruise). Which you have all generously given me, and I sincerely appreciate. :)

 

M

[klfrodo]

Well, actually . . . I am a lawyer (for reals - 18 years), and I specialize in contract law (note the "Esq" in my username.) :):)

 

And, as a lawyer, I don't think RC has a leg to stand on here, for all the reasons I stated. Either the "deposit" is $100 or it's $200 - but, once we've agreed on one, it can't be both depending on how RC feels on a given day, especially when they can't point to a policy to the contrary in their contract or anywhere else. And, yes, I do think the explicit statement in their advertising that "your deposit is reduced by 50%" is false advertising, especially when their refund policy states you lose your "deposit" but they try to claim the "deposit" is really 2X the "reduced deposit" in the deal you agreed to when you try to exercise your right to cancel.

 

But all that being said, I'm giving myself the exact same advice I would give my clients - you only "win" a case if the outcome is worth all of the trouble and expense you have to go through to get that outcome. And, at the end of the day, I'm obviously not going to file a lawsuit against RC over a hundred dollars; my out of pocket expense just to file would be a multiple of that, not to mention time, stress and so on - especially given that the contract obligates me to participate in arbitration (which I DO think is enforceable).

 

So, yeah - legally, I think they're wrong, but, knowing I'm not realistically going to fight it up to the Supreme Court over $100, that's why I came for some practical thoughts/experiences from all you fine folks who may have some real-world experience with these things (this would only be my second RC cruise). Which you have all generously given me, and I sincerely appreciate. :)

 

M

 

:)

With 1 question and 3 responses, you've already exceeded the $100 in lost billable hours

[sugcarol]

I'm sure you are correct about not being worth the effort for 100.00. I booked online and price came up 2129.10. RCI asked for 500.00 deposit. I called and they overrode deposit to 250.00, but cruise price never changed, it just told me what was due at final, which was 2129.10 less 250.00. I guess that is how they cover themselves because original cruise price never changed.

[Clarea]

I'm sure you are correct about not being worth the effort for 100.00. I booked online and price came up 2129.10. RCI asked for 500.00 deposit. I called and they overrode deposit to 250.00, but cruise price never changed, it just told me what was due at final, which was 2129.10 less 250.00. I guess that is how they cover themselves because original cruise price never changed.

It's normal for full deposit to be required on the website. Royal has never bothered to program the website to handle reduced deposit promos.

[GottaKnowWhen]

You can't file a suit against RCCL. Your contract stipulates arbitration of disputes. Their arbitrator, their rules, they win.

[ForMyBoys2015]

:)

With 1 question and 3 responses, you've already exceeded the $100 in lost billable hours

 

This made me smile!! He probably exceeded $100 in billable hours while writing the original post :p

 

OP I totally agree with you. In this case if they reduced the deposit amount and cancellation should only forfeit the original deposit then I think its clear you should only lose the agreed to deposit amount. Good luck.

[elruth]

This doesn't provide any insight but I thought when one buys insurance and then cancels after final payment, one would only lose the $$ for insurance and get the rest refunded.