Drowning on Liberty

[Johnamac123]

Although everyone has the right to post/say what they want, it is sad to see that some people choose to post the things that they do.

 

We have become a society where everyone feels that they should put in their 2¢, even if what they say doesn't add anything to the discussion. It becomes just a bunch of "yelling" with no real discussion.

 

Discussing an issue is very different than just posting judgmental or hateful words.

 

Soooo....with that said. To try and add to the discussion...

 

I am sailing on the Liberty next Nov and I have a son, who will be 10, and daughter, who will be 14. I would like to know the circumstances with this drowning. Was there a lifeguard? How deep was the pool? Were the parents nearby?

 

On my Disney cruise that I just went on there were two life guards just for the kid's pool. That pool was maybe 2.5 - 3 feet deep. Boy...they walked around that little pool like hawks...looking at each and every kid...over and over. I was seriously impressed. I still watched my son but felt better knowing that the lifeguards were being so vigilant.

 

After doing some research I have read that Disney is the only cruise line that has lifeguards? Say what? Hopefully this tragedy will be a wake up call to the industry? Yes, parents are ultimately responsible for the their children but the cruise lines need to also provide back up. What if an adult has a medical issue? Who is watching over them?

 

Obviously, this is a risk analysis game for the cruise industry. Cruise line weighs the cost of paying full time lifeguards for all their ships versus possibly getting sued and settling out of court. Which is the cheaper option? Sad truth is it boils down to money.

 

There was another drowning on an Oasis class ship within the past year I believe. It occurred in a small, round "motion" pool in the kids play area. There were no changes to RCI not providing lifeguards on their ships.

[LuCruise]

This kind of news is so heartbreaking. Here a family has come for what should be wonderful memories and ends in such s nightmare. Heartbreaking.

 

Sent from my ONE E1005 using Tapatalk

[internetwhiz]

Very sad. A Christmas cruise with family and friends.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bobal]

There was another drowning on an Oasis class ship within the past year I believe. It occurred in a small, round "motion" pool in the kids play area. There were no changes to RCI not providing lifeguards on their ships.

 

The child didn't drown - he was revived. It was on Oasis in January. And I have sailed on allure twice and oasis once since that accident and every time they have had an attendant next to that whirlpool

 

I post this not to detract from the horrible tragedy which has taken place but to correct the very misinformed post which I quoted above. Please get your facts straight before you post

[mollyeilis]

Hey, my grandkids have life jackets or wings whenever they're in the pool.

 

If they are strictly the blow up ARM wings, pop them and toss them. They can CAUSE drowning. If the child's arms get above their heads, the wings make it impossible for a young child to get the arms down. Arms up like that pushes the mouth underwater. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

I first heard about it several years ago. I resisted, because that's how I learned to swim, what is wrong with them? Silly internet.

 

Went to visit my brother in CA. We were in the pool. My son was literally in arm's reach from me with his wings on. My brother was swimming laps and I was chatting with him while standing there as DS played. My brother, from the other side of the pool, looks past me with an odd expression on his face. I turn, DS is drowning with his winged arms above his head, mouth under water. SILENT. Utterly, deadly, silent. I put my arm out, I reach him.

 

He was fine.

 

The moment we all knew he was OK, we popped those wings and got a proper life vest with the tether that straps between the legs to make sure the vest doesn't pop off over the head.

 

 

So if the wings are the type that just slip on the arms, get rid of them. Please.

[mollyeilis]

Very sad no matter what the circumstances were.

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Very sad and I am curious about the circumstances. I am assuming this happened at the pool so am surprised no one noticed. So I am curious what time it happened and all the circumstances.

 

Drowning is silent and can easily go unnoticed even when people are watching. It is terrifying. There are some videos online that show that drowning doesn't look like drowning at all. Nor does it look like "distress", to use a word a later poster used.

 

As I just posted, my son was drowning just next to me, and there was NO noise. (he's not the type where no noise = trouble...he's very good at amusing himself and it doesn't always mean he's making noise) No splashing, no noise, no nothing. If I'd seen him from behind I likely wouldn't have thought anything of it. Thankfully my brother saw him, and saw his face halfway under the water. Both DS and I had been interacting with my brother, so we were both facing him, not each other.

 

 

 

 

To respond to a tragedy like this by learning more and being even more vigilant is good. But to judge that someone else was NOT being vigilant is not good. We just don't know. And to kid ourselves that we can drownproof our families is just folly.

 

 

The only time I have ever relaxed (probably due to the event I described) when my kids or nieces/nephews were in the water (pool, lake, ocean) was when we owned a Newfoundland dog and the only thing that got her out of the water was when the kids were in, and she would take up a position and you could actually see her counting heads until all the kids came out of the water. She was a better lifeguard than most humans. Completely focused and no distractions.

 

Aw, love that story.

 

 

Yes, you are correct. However, if a child is being "watched like a hawk", even subtle signs will be noticed.

 

I really doubt it. If you watch the main video you can find online (someone was taping something on the beach and caught a rescue), even when LOOKING for it you can't see what's going on.

 

 

 

On my Disney cruise that I just went on there were two life guards just for the kid's pool. That pool was maybe 2.5 - 3 feet deep. Boy...they walked around that little pool like hawks...looking at each and every kid...over and over. I was seriously impressed. I still watched my son but felt better knowing that the lifeguards were being so vigilant.

 

After doing some research I have read that Disney is the only cruise line that has lifeguards? Say what? Hopefully this tragedy will be a wake up call to the industry?

 

2 years ago DCL didn't have them either. It took a near drowning (and the boy's life, and the life of his family, will NEVER be the same) for them to get lifeguards. Of course, they have the tiniest, most overcrowded, people-soup pools so I have NO faith that even the best lifeguard will notice anything in a DCL pool.

 

 

 

 

... we've had some people suggest it was inappropriate at a time like this to talk about pool safety and appropriate supervision.

 

No. There is a difference between "wow, I will be more vigilant in the future and learn what drowning looks like so I have a chance to know what might be going on" and "poor parental supervision!"

 

One is helpful and good. The other is utterly useless.

 

 

 

But as an ex special education teacher, and an aunt to an autistic boy, he is never left unsupervised.

 

When does the family sleep?

[Paul65]

No. There is a difference between "wow, I will be more vigilant in the future and learn what drowning looks like so I have a chance to know what might be going on" and "poor parental supervision!"

 

One is helpful and good. The other is utterly useless.

 

I admit that the delivery was not the best, but I think talking about appropriate supervision is, in general, helpful and good, while expressing sympathy is nice, but not very useful.

 

I'm surprised reading this thread, though, that some people expected drowning to be some event that involves noise and thrashing about. In general, I don't even think "Hollywood" depicts it that way most of the time. A kid can slip under the water in an instant, and that's why supervision is so important. I think, for an 8 year old to drown in a pool, it absolutely means there was a lapse of supervision in some way or another.

[antsnanny]

Im thinking the cruise should require life jackets in and around their pools for children.

[Paul65]

When does the family sleep?

 

A good percentage of autistic children have a tendency to be wanderers, and I would expect that most parents of such children have ways to make sure their child doesn't wander anywhere that would get them in trouble in the middle of the night. If you have your home reasonably "child-proofed," they can't be kept safe and you can get some sleep.

 

I get your point that you can't have an eye on them 100% of the time, but you can create a safe environment at home and have an eye on them 100% of the time that you're out in a public area.

[MommieMara]

 

When does the family sleep?

 

Yes its unfair to claim as child is NEVER left unsupervised. Sometimes children die due to negligence but sometimes its an accident. I to teach special needs children. My student that drown was autistic and got up in the night, unlocked the door and left the apartment. As parents we need to be very careful. we also should try not to judge situations like this when we do not have the facts. All we know right now is some poor family has lost their baby days before Christmas very tragically.

[MAHA]

Thoughts are with this family in their time of grief.

 

As for lifeguards for the pools, my 3 sons were all lifeguards at summer pools. Many parents of smaller children were not in the pool with their children or watching them. These children were kindergarten age to around 7. They assumed that their children would be watched by the lifeguards. Some of these parents were busy sitting around poolside tables, drinking beer and talking with friends. The lifeguards had to watch their children even closer as well as discipline them, keeping them from scanning the pool as frequently as may have been necessary. Having lifeguards on the cruise ship will lead to potentially less parents watching or being in the pool with their children. I am not convinced that having lifeguards will prevent a drowning.

 

When we started cruising, I was in the pool with my youngest, who was 12 at the time. He didn't need me in the pool as he had been on the summer swim team since he was 4, but I felt it was my responsibility to watch him. I had always been in the pool with my kids when they were young. Even with lifeguards, I felt it was my responsibilty to be with them.

 

Not placing blame with anyone as no one knows what happened. Sounds like the medical team did all they could in trying to revive this poor child.

 

It does seem to me that there has been an increase in cruise ship pool drownings in the past couple of year. It also conincides with the introduction of unlimited drink packages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rvmike]

Hopefully the parents weren't chair hogs and left for lunch hoping the cruise line would baby sit the child

[mek]

What a tragedy! Since none of us know the circumstances, I think it's inappropriate to judge; however, I seriously doubt if the family members are taking the time to check CC, even if they are members, so I doubt if they will be offended by anything posted here.

[sharpasice]

The child didn't drown - he was revived. It was on Oasis in January. And I have sailed on allure twice and oasis once since that accident and every time they have had an attendant next to that whirlpool

 

I post this not to detract from the horrible tragedy which has taken place but to correct the very misinformed post which I quoted above. Please get your facts straight before you post

 

I just got off FOS Sunday and one day, happened to be sitting right next to that circular whirlpool type pool. There was NO attendant and few parent's watching...I purposely watched the kids...it was stressful and finally I had to leave. One of the problems with this pool is even though you can see below the water line, it is deceiving. Often times you can see a child's head appear as though it is 5 ft away from the body under the water. We were all talking about that at poolside as it was so difficult to determine if a child was in trouble...I don't know what causes it...maybe the curved glass or just the water. I think they should reconsider this type of pool on future ships.

[A&L_Ont]

Thoughts are with this family in their time of grief.

 

As for lifeguards for the pools, my 3 sons were all lifeguards at summer pools. Many parents of smaller children were not in the pool with their children or watching them. These children were kindergarten age to around 7. They assumed that their children would be watched by the lifeguards. Some of these parents were busy sitting around poolside tables, drinking beer and talking with friends. The lifeguards had to watch their children even closer as well as discipline them, keeping them from scanning the pool as frequently as may have been necessary. Having lifeguards on the cruise ship will lead to potentially less parents watching or being in the pool with their children. I am not convinced that having lifeguards will prevent a drowning.

 

When we started cruising, I was in the pool with my youngest, who was 12 at the time. He didn't need me in the pool as he had been on the summer swim team since he was 4, but I felt it was my responsibility to watch him. I had always been in the pool with my kids when they were young. Even with lifeguards, I felt it was my responsibilty to be with them.

 

Not placing blame with anyone as no one knows what happened. Sounds like the medical team did all they could in trying to revive this poor child.

 

It does seem to me that there has been an increase in cruise ship pool drownings in the past couple of year. It also conincides with the introduction of unlimited drink packages.

 

A well thought out post.

[A&L_Ont]

Pretty much what I was coming here to post. What we think drowning looks like thanks to Hollywood and what it actually looks like are very different things.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/family/2013/06/rescuing_drowning_children_how_to_know_when_someone_is_in_trouble_in_the.html

 

Written on your heart, thanks for the link. This link is a great learning tool. I think everyone should read this link and watch the videos. If you are serious about child and adult swim safety please go to the link.

[Jasp 0401]

So very sad my heart goes out to the family and also to everyone that try to save this young boy.The loss of a love one is very hard and even more so when it is a child

Edited December 23, 2015 by Jasp 0401

[internetwhiz]

...and even more so at Christmas.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

Written on your heart, thanks for the link. This link is a great learning tool. I think everyone should read this link and watch the videos. If you are serious about child and adult swim safety please go to the link.

 

You're welcome! I remembered seeing it before, so I did a search to find it. Yes...VERY important information to be aware of! (And a good reminder for me as my class is about to start swimming with our school swim program after December break.)

[gaylemh]

I live on the beach at the Jersey Shore. It's shocking the things I see every summer. There are days when there are red flags or yellow flags when the ocean is very rough or there are rip currents. You are not allowed in the water at all with a red flag, and with a yellow flag you are only allowed up to you knees.

 

It shocks me that as soon as the lifeguards leave for the day, parents are bringing their kids into the ocean. (or anyone is going into the ocean) They actually wait by the water to jump in as soon as the lifeguards leave. Some of the parents are sitting on the beach while their kids are going into the water by themselves, and even taking pictures. I don't know what they are thinking. Rip currents and rough seas are nothing to fool around with.

 

I also see little kids, under 5 years old, playing down by the water, with the parents sitting on the beach 20 ft away. Yes the parents can see their child, but it only takes a second for a large wave to come out of nowhere and wash their child out to sea.

 

I guess they thinks nothing bad is going to happen to them or their kids.

[Keith1010]

Very sad. A reminder that tragic accidents can happen anytime, anywhere.

 

Keith

[Newby58]

I was at a popular beach in Sydney which had 3 lifeguards. My 7 y/o was playing on the sand at the waters edge. I was watching her like a hawk. All of a sudden, a huge wave took her out of her depth. Immediately, I saw she was in trouble. Fully clothed I raced into the water. Instinctively, she raised her face and tried to float as someone else on here mentioned. She could swim however was literally washed off her feet. I was nearly to her when another big wave was coming. I was afraid she would go under. Adrenaline kicked in. A board riderswimm

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Newby58]

Sorry, to continue.... A board rider grabbed her after hearing my screams. I swam with her back to the beach. We cried together for an hour. I thank God to this day. The lifeguards saw nothing. Lifeguards are not the answer. Parents are.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Newby58]

She is a beautiful young lady now, all of 16 :-)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sparkygirl]

Im thinking the cruise should require life jackets in and around their pools for children.

 

 

I disagree requiring a life jacket for children is not the answer. My four year old is a competitive swimmer and swims 300-600 yards during a practice session. There are many factors that contribute to a drowning and mitigation of all the factors is a challenge with no single solution.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk