Prediction for the future of the cruise industry...

[Cruizer Bill]

Bigger ships, floating amusement parks, more special charges and less true free public space. That is what is happening on RCCL and Carnival. Hope it does not come to HAL.

[Wakepatrol]

Golden Corral dining with a guy in ball cap and Crocs drinking from the chocolate fountain

[cruisemom42]

Why is it any different than hotels with concierge class lounges?

Book a certain category hotel room and have use of a lounge for breakfast, snacks, newspapers, cocktails (sometimes) etc

 

 

It's a fair question.

 

My take is that, for me (who has been cruising since the early 1970s), this is not the "premise" of cruising, at least not for the leisure North American market. US leisure cruising started out as more or less a reaction to the "class" system on European lines. It was a matter of everyone having the same access to the same amenities on board, outside of one's cabin. The cost of a larger cabin, balcony (very rare in those days) or suite was regarded as enough of a perk in itself as most cabins were quite small and many had only a porthole.

 

There was no priority boarding, specialty dining, special events (other than for past passengers), or exclusive areas on board the ships. Everyone ate in the MDR, everyone had access to the same areas of the ship.

 

I guess I bought into that whole idea, and for me, the direction cruising is heading in, with a focus on the suite passenger, is not my cup of tea. I don't speak just of HAL, as HAL is probably not at the head of the pack in this area. Other lines are certainly doing it.

[iancal]

On our last two cruises we were entitled to avail ourselves of 'Priority Boarding'

 

Sounds great? Well, we went with the unwashed masses. Why? There was no lineup.

 

People who were entitled to Priority Boarding were actually selecting that line, with one or two ahead of them, instead the of open lines at regular boarding.

 

We started to laugh as we saw people approaching the area and making their decision. We human beings are strange creatures.

Edited December 25, 2015 by iancal

[Tampa Girl]

I've turned down up sells to Neptune suites, the food is the same regardless of where you sit to eat it. Not much of a perk if it the food is standard for the fleet. M

 

Not to mention free laundry and dry cleaning (?) and constant snacks in the Neptune Lounge, which are not available in the Lido. And a personal concierge which on occasion has come in tremendously handy.

[Tampa Girl]

Double spacing wastes paper. :p

 

Paper? What paper?

[iancal]

We cruise on a number of lines.

 

We could never figure out why we would pay more for a Neptune suite on HAL, other than the real estate issue.

 

Our status on RCI for example, provides us with a personal concierge and a private lounge. We have this benefit whether we book an inside cabin or the owner's suite. We never use the concierge services, we do use the lounge.

[sail7seas]

It's a fair question.

 

My take is that, for me (who has been cruising since the early 1970s), this is not the "premise" of cruising, at least not for the leisure North American market. US leisure cruising started out as more or less a reaction to the "class" system on European lines. It was a matter of everyone having the same access to the same amenities on board, outside of one's cabin. The cost of a larger cabin, balcony (very rare in those days) or suite was regarded as enough of a perk in itself as most cabins were quite small and many had only a porthole.

 

There was no priority boarding, specialty dining, special events (other than for past passengers), or exclusive areas on board the ships. Everyone ate in the MDR, everyone had access to the same areas of the ship.

 

I guess I bought into that whole idea, and for me, the direction cruising is heading in, with a focus on the suite passenger, is not my cup of tea. I don't speak just of HAL, as HAL is probably not at the head of the pack in this area. Other lines are certainly doing it.

 

Time marches on and the times have changed. The entire premise of ocean sailing for vacationing has evolved. There was a time when only the rich could afford to cruise at all.

 

U.S/Canada are countries of equality yet some people drive Mercedes Benz and others have ten year old VW. That has not changed. There are some people who value a quiet place for breakfast, a concierge to deal with 'business' for them, they want a place to sit quietly outside their cabin to visit with friends/family with whom they are traveling. They choose to spend more money to purchase the use of such comforts.

 

Some people fly first class and stay in The Ritz. Others fly coach and book a room at Motel 6. No one is better than another but they have the means and desire to purchase more and they do so.

 

Cruising has evolved from the '70s and will continue to as long as they are in existence. As the times change, people's desires change, they have to change to meet what those with the means to buy their product request/want and are willing to pay for.

 

A friend who worked for a major U.S. airline once told me they didn't care if coach went out half empty as long as full fare paying passengers occupied all the seats in First Class. They pay more and that money is welcomed.

 

If the changes in offering 'extras' to Suite guests wasn't working for the cruise lines as they continue to adopt more extras, they wouldn't proceed in that direction.

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by sail7seas

[iancal]

We sometimes get tired of the offers we see for upsells. Last time we booked Celebrity we were offered an upgrade. Slightly larger cabin or a better (?) shower.

 

The only benefit appeared to be daily pre dinner appetizers delivered to the cabin and two bottles of water.

 

As DW said, the last thing we need is more food prior to dinner. Extra food on a cruise line is not exactly an incentive. When we turn on that silver spigot in the bathroom we can get as much water as our hearts desire....without buying the upgrade. And we see zero value in so called 'Priority Check-In'.

 

So far, the incremental value to us of an upgrade from our standard balcony has fallen well short of the incremental cost. The cruise lines, all of them, need to do a better job with the upsell offerings.

Edited December 25, 2015 by iancal

[RocketMan275]

 

If the changes in offering 'extras' to Suite guests wasn't working for the cruise lines as they continue to adopt more extras, they wouldn't proceed in that direction.

 

 

And, we're certainly glad they do offer those extras. We're retired now. We long and hard. We lived inexpensively. Now we can afford those 'little extras'. Life is good.

[AZNative2000]

If the changes in offering 'extras' to Suite guests wasn't working for the cruise lines as they continue to adopt more extras, they wouldn't proceed in that direction.

 

One more effect I see is that the other line offering the new exclusive dining venue (among other perks) is selling out of suites very quickly. They can only wish they had more suites to satisfy the demand. (Even with the increasing of prices.)

 

Even HAL ... cruises I've been eyeing for late 2016 and even 2017 seem to have very few Neptune Suites available (if any) but lots of balcony and Signature Suite cabins available.

 

Cheers!

Edited December 25, 2015 by AZNative2000

[cbr663]

...

 

A friend who worked for a major U.S. airline once told me they didn't care if coach went out half empty as long as full fare paying passengers occupied all the seats in First Class. They pay more and that money is welcomed.

 

 

That is an old analogy left over from the days of a regulated airline industry. Since the airline industry deregulation in 1978, airline profits have fallen just like the cruise industry. In fact, since 1978, every major US interstate airline has visited a bankruptcy court at least once, some even more than once. You may be interested in visiting here: https://www.mcgill.ca/iasl/files/iasl/aspl613_paul_dempsey_airlinebankruptcies2012.pdf

 

This is actually the crux of the problem facing the cruise industry. While the cruise lines still manage to post profits, like the airline industry, it takes a lot of money and effort for cruise lines to make money. Carnival Corp with all its brands still do not make any profits from cruise tickets and its profits are made from on-board purchases.

 

I think the future will bring 2 types of cruises - the all inclusive niche which will be limited to luxury lines and the a la carte pricing models for the mass market lines. The a la carte pricing models allows passengers to customize a cruise to meet their individual needs while allowing cruise lines to increase their profits by charging for each item.

 

Want a dining experience reminiscent of the golden age of cruising? There's a speciality dining event for that. Want white-gloved personalized service? There's a deck side cabana for that. Want a personalized butler and amenities? There's a suite for that also. Premium drinks and beverages? There's a package for that also. Chose one or more than one. Want it all? There's a luxury line for that.

[visagrunt]

Cruising has increasingly become a travel option for the masses, the way that air travel did in the 1970's.

 

Cruise lines, however, do not have some of the pricing options available to airlines because almost everyone is spending their own money to cruise. Accordingly, the subset for whom money is no object is considerably smaller than the the cohort willing to pay business class airfares to cross an ocean.

 

The proliferation of cost added options provides an opportunity for passengers to pay for the benefits that they want, and to forego those that they don't. It allows cruise lines to keep fares as low as possible, which enables them to market to the broadest possible market segments.

 

But I don't see a return to class separation on a widespread basis. Creating segregated real estate on the ship imposes a set of fixed costs on your higher category fares that may be difficult to sustain.

[RocketMan275]

 

This is actually the crux of the problem facing the cruise industry. While the cruise lines still manage to post profits, like the airline industry, it takes a lot of money and effort for cruise lines to make money. Carnival Corp with all its brands still do not make any profits from cruise tickets and its profits are made from on-board purchases.

 

Watched a Discovery Channel (I think it was discover) show named "Cruise Inc." The subject was a one week cruise on NCL. There were extensive interviews with NCL executives. One segment confirmed that the cruise tickets covered fixed costs and any profits came from on-board purchases. That's one reason the cruise lines push the all inclusive beverage packages.

[sail7seas]

That is an old analogy left over from the days of a regulated airline industry. Since the airline industry deregulation in 1978, airline profits have fallen just like the cruise industry. In fact, since 1978, every major US interstate airline has visited a bankruptcy court at least once, some even more than once. You may be interested in visiting here: https://www.mcgill.ca/iasl/files/iasl/aspl613_paul_dempsey_airlinebankruptcies2012.pdf

 

<snip>

 

 

I was sure I heard a number of reports about the profits airlines made last year particularly from sources such as baggage fees, ticket change fees, extra leg room fees, etc

 

[GUT2407]

Sure and some will have to row.

[RocketMan275]

One more effect I see is that the other line offering the new exclusive dining venue (among other perks) is selling out of suites very quickly. They can only wish they had more suites to satisfy the demand. (Even with the increasing of prices.)

 

Even HAL ... cruises I've been eyeing for late 2016 and even 2017 seem to have very few Neptune Suites available (if any) but lots of balcony and Signature Suite cabins available.

 

Cheers!

 

We were on Oasis where they have a suites lounge and a dedicated dining venue (Coastal Kitchens) for suites guests. We had a Crown Loft Suite which was only steps away from both. While we liked the lounge (always some kind of finger foods, complimentary wine (11-11) and liquor (530 to 830), we were less than impressed with the dining. Please note, ours appears to be a minority view but we felt the menu was too limited only changing once in seven days. We ate more in the buffet than in Coastal Kitchens. As an aside, the dress code was smart casual and we saw no baseball caps, shorts at night, etc.

[dakrewser]

Some people fly first class and stay in The Ritz. Others fly coach and book a room at Motel 6. No one is better than another but they have the means and desire to purchase more and they do so.

 

 

And some fly 1st and stay in Motel6 while others fly coach and stay in the Ritz-Carleton. Which is the whole idea behind the "choose your own amenities" bingo-card options packages. If you want bigger cabin, bigger balcony, better food, concierge-service, butler service, etc., etc. its all available - for a price.

 

I like the concept. If I can make an analogy to something we've discussed here recently, it's like a made-to-order sandwich rather than the pre-made, "one type suits all" system.

[sail7seas]

Exactly

[cruisemom42]

 

Cruising has evolved from the '70s and will continue to as long as they are in existence. As the times change, people's desires change, they have to change to meet what those with the means to buy their product request/want and are willing to pay for.

 

A friend who worked for a major U.S. airline once told me they didn't care if coach went out half empty as long as full fare paying passengers occupied all the seats in First Class. They pay more and that money is welcomed.

 

If the changes in offering 'extras' to Suite guests wasn't working for the cruise lines as they continue to adopt more extras, they wouldn't proceed in that direction.

 

 

I understand and acknowledge that times have changed since I started cruising -- but it's only fairly recently that there has been such a pronounced emphasis on suite perks and exclusive items aboard ships.

 

However, I don't agree with or like the changes. :cool: I currently tend to patronize the smaller ships that have a more egalitarian approach still. If that changes significantly, I'm willing to do without cruising altogether and simply do land-based travel. Not from lack of funds; it's just not my idea of cruising.

[cruisemom42]

One more effect I see is that the other line offering the new exclusive dining venue (among other perks) is selling out of suites very quickly. They can only wish they had more suites to satisfy the demand. (Even with the increasing of prices.)

 

 

Cheers!

 

If you're talking about Celebrity, I guess it depends. I've read several posts on their boards recently about suites not selling as well as they were a year ago for the same cruises...

[sail7seas]

Cruisemom,

 

While off topic, I have to comment about your Carl Sagan quote in your signature:

 

History is full of people who out of fear, or ignorance, or the lust for power have destroyed treasures of immeasurable value which truly belong to all of us. We must not let it happen again. -- Carl Sagan

 

 

It positively breaks my heart when I see antiquities that belong to all humankind destroyed so recklessly. Of course, human life is the biggest loss but to lose centuries old relics because of a small band of zealots is painful beyond measure.

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by sail7seas

[cruisemom42]

Of course, human life is the biggest loss but to lose centuries old relics because of a small band of zealots is painful beyond measure.

 

 

Of course you are right about the human cost. But these relics belong to everyone and remind us collectively of where we have been (as a global community) and provide a sense of pride in our past.

[deliver42]

When I book a cruise it's for the ship and itinerary. What I want to add is up to me. I can stay standard, which I think is still pretty good, or I can upgrade to whatever I want. I don't see that as steerage. It's all about choices, And I think that's the way it should be.

[iancal]

We would pay more if there is real value for us. More real estate and a better dining venue has value. We are not about to upgrade only for a slightly larger cabin or a free meal in an optional restaurant. If we are paying more we want a better experience. For us that does not mean the MDR on most of the mass markets. DW says she would rather upgrade to an Azamara or Oceania than upgrade on a mass market line if the only real difference to the latter is more real estate, priority boarding, or a meal in an alternate dining venue. It has to be an upgrade out of the MDR.

 

When we upgrade in land based travel the upgrade is usually to a better hotel or resort than it is to say a club room instead of a regular. Had years of that in business travel and it has to be better that a room that appeals to my ego or aspirations.

Edited December 26, 2015 by iancal