Cancelling prepaid gratuities

[MicCanberra]

And at ine stage I worked 15+ hours a day 360+ days a year for about 15 years.

 

Should my clients have tipped me?

 

No because you didn't work on the ship, You actually got paid a salary that doesn't need to be supplemented by gratuities.

[LMaxwell]

The cruise lines have devised a system that works best for them. If they wanted to change it to be a stronger benefit to the worker and less benefit to the company, they have the power to do that, but they don't. This applies to many cruise lines. So long as someone is playing within the rules of the house it's fair play. It's not like a cruise line is going to let someone violate a policy just for asking. The policy basically leaves the decision up to the guest. People need to accept it or complain to the company about it.

[GUT2407]

No because you didn't work on the ship, You actually got paid a salary that doesn't need to be supplemented by gratuities.

 

And that's at the heart of it all.

 

I just wish that they'd either include them in the price or make them non removeable.

 

Or better still pay a salary that doesn't need supplementing.

[MicCanberra]

And that's at the heart of it all.

 

I just wish that they'd either include them in the price or make them non removeable.

 

Or better still pay a salary that doesn't need supplementing.

 

Agreed, but until that time we will have these threads to discuss these issues.

[MicCanberra]

The cruise lines have devised a system that works best for them. If they wanted to change it to be a stronger benefit to the worker and less benefit to the company, they have the power to do that, but they don't. This applies to many cruise lines. So long as someone is playing within the rules of the house it's fair play. It's not like a cruise line is going to let someone violate a policy just for asking. The policy basically leaves the decision up to the guest. People need to accept it or complain to the company about it.

 

True, the companies are certainly not going to change the system that suits them best.

[Lerin]

We have just returned from a cruise and were very disappointed with the service and the expectations from staff to be tipped even though we had already pre paid our gratuities.

 

We are going on another on voyager in a few weeks and we have already pre paid once again but would like to cancel this and pay as we go for great service.

So you're going to punish the new staff on your upcoming cruise due to mistakes from crew on a previous cruise. Nice.

[MicCanberra]

So you're going to punish the new staff on your upcoming cruise due to mistakes from crew on a previous cruise. Nice.

 

Perhaps they are just reserving judgement.

[moopetguy]

I think it's fairly well established that the crew rely on the gratuities to make up a large percentage of their wages. I believe most people agree that this shouldn't be the way cruise lines compensate their employees, but this is the way it is, and it's not going to change any time soon.

 

For those who believe the crew have knowingly consented to such a compensation model, and if they don't like it, they should get another job -- well technically that is true, but it's somewhat under duress. The crew are made up of many nationalities where a cruise line contract is probably one of the most lucrative employment prospects available, relatively speaking.

 

Most alternatives back home are so bad, that they'll take anything "less bad". I think this is why many crew who have families back home are willing to make the sacrifice to be away from them for months at a time, to provide for them.

 

If they could find a better job close to home and be with their families, wouldn't they do so? The "better" job opportunities simply aren't there in sufficient numbers, so most have to take what they can get.

 

Luck plays a huge role, too. I was lucky to be born in Canada and have a good education without breaking the bank. If I were born in an unstable, under-developed, or war-torn country, I'd probably be screwed like most people who live there regardless of "how hard I worked" or what have you.

 

Anyhow, this model of relying on customers' tips to substantially increase their employees' wages is still rampant across the U.S. It's not just on cruise lines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States

 

It looks like 20 states keep to the federally-mandated minimum wage of $2.13/hour for employees receiving at least $30 in tips/month. Many states offering above the minimum are barely higher (25 states under $3/hour, 37 states under $5/hour).

 

Probably the only ways to fix this are to stop patronizing businesses that compensate their employees this way, or hope a white knight comes along and isn't afraid to take the hit (from customers, shareholders, etc.) by raising the wages of their employees to something fair and decent. I believe Starbucks is a leader in this area, but they're a minority in the food service industry.

 

TL; DR, I would say not to reduce or remove the gratuities entirely (whether pre-paid or paid daily) unless the service has truly been substandard and attempts to resolve the issues on-board were not successful.

[MicCanberra]

Good post.:D

[dundeelass]

everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but what gets me is that it seems everyone on here feels that the room stewards ect are paid very little. well who told you that the ceo of the cruiselines or just the general sensus on here ?

i was in hospitality in scotland and tipping is so not the norm here, just do your job and if you get tips then thats fab. how do we ever know if the people we are tipping actually get it anyway. just a thought:p

[BekkaW]

everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but what gets me is that it seems everyone on here feels that the room stewards ect are paid very little. well who told you that the ceo of the cruiselines or just the general sensus on here ?

i was in hospitality in scotland and tipping is so not the norm here, just do your job and if you get tips then thats fab. how do we ever know if the people we are tipping actually get it anyway. just a thought:p

 

Low wages plus gratuity is a well established practice in the U.S. (Where the cruise lines are based). You can't really compare it to Scotland, it's comparing apples and oranges.

 

If you don't believe the cruisleine is telling you the truth about how tips are distributed then why are you doing business with them? This is a serious question - a business I didn't feel I could trust would not be getting my money.

[dundeelass]

do you beleive everything people tell you really ? i dont. i am not saying i dont tip, but if i fail to get good service, hot food ect, i have no hesitation too. after being on over 50 cruises i have my own opinion, after talking to a few food and beverage managers and hotel directors. to be honest you would never know who gets our tips. people lie, and thats a fact of life.:confused:

[north29]

OP

If you are expecting high quality yesteryears service on any cruise line except the cruise lines that you have to win the lottery to cruise on, your expectations are too high even in a grand suite (I will never truly know about those).

In all my cruises, I have enjoyed basic, OK, good, better and best but NEVER BAD service.

I would never think of not pre paying Gratuities.

[caribbean sailor]

Pay the gratuities people. Keep in mind the staff work everyday for 6-9 months sometimes.

 

Pay your people Royal,the staff work everyday for 6-9 months.shame on you Zane.You should be paid by tips.:p :p

[gerif]

Pay your people Royal,the staff work everyday for 6-9 months.shame on you Zane.You should be paid by tips.:p :p

 

Of course, they could pay the staff more and eliminate tips. This is what the "premium " lines do. Tips are built into the high cruise fare. Perhaps one of these lines would suit you better.

[dwhe]

...We have just returned from a cruise and were very disappointed with the service and the expectations from staff to be tipped even though we had already pre paid our gratuities....

 

That's one thing I've never come across when cruising, staff expecting to be tipped. am I just lucky?

 

Even for room service I usually have to go after them to give them a tip they don't just stand there.

[Clarea]

Of course, they could pay the staff more and eliminate tips. This is what the "premium " lines do. Tips are built into the high cruise fare. Perhaps one of these lines would suit you better.

Excellent idea.

[dundeelass]

How will you ensure the folks behind the scenes who get some of the gratuities are not left out?

 

i feel the same, when my kids were younger and at the kids club, the staff there were deserving of a tip but you never knew if they ever got it. so i would give them one myself. tipping is a very personal subject as you can tell from the people who get on their high horse regarding it. some people agree on tipping and some do not. its a choice.;)

[moopetguy]

Here on CC, there's an interview with a guy who worked for Carnival and wrote a book about it. He describes various aspects of working on a cruise ship, including the low pay and heavy reliance on gratuities for the restaurants crew.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/v-2/articles.cfm?ID=1059

 

There are various other interviews/reports to be found online that corroborate the low pay...

 

http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/whats-it-like-to-actually-work-on-a-cruise-ship/

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/ot.html

 

Also, what's very telling is that during open Q&A sessions like the Captain's Corner on board with RCI, they (HD, CD, etc.) are extremely secretive when passengers ask about crew wages. They'll talk about the positive aspects such as crew parties, crew bars/pools/lounges, etc. but stonewall questions about money. They know it's exploitative of crew coming from certain nationalities where the cruise lines can get away with very low pay. If cruise lines offered good compensation for all their crew, I'm sure they'd be the first to let us know.

[Grandma Dazzles]

I think it's fairly well established that the crew rely on the gratuities to make up a large percentage of their wages. I believe most people agree that this shouldn't be the way cruise lines compensate their employees, but this is the way it is, and it's not going to change any time soon.

 

For those who believe the crew have knowingly consented to such a compensation model, and if they don't like it, they should get another job -- well technically that is true, but it's somewhat under duress. The crew are made up of many nationalities where a cruise line contract is probably one of the most lucrative employment prospects available, relatively speaking.

 

Most alternatives back home are so bad, that they'll take anything "less bad". I think this is why many crew who have families back home are willing to make the sacryifice to be away from them for months at a time, to provide for them.

 

If they could find a better job close to home and be with their families, wouldn't they do so? The "better" job opportunities simply aren't there in sufficient numbers, so most have to take what they can get.

 

Luck plays a huge role, too. I was lucky to be born in Canada and have a good education without breaking the bank. If I were born in an unstable, under-developed, or war-torn country, I'd probably be screwed like most people who live there regardless of "how hard I worked" or what have you.

 

Anyhow, this model of relying on customers' tips to substantially increase their employees' wages is still rampant across the U.S. It's not just on cruise lines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States

 

It looks like 20 states keep to the federally-mandated minimum wage of $2.13/hour for employees receiving at least $30 in tips/month. Many states offering above the minimum are barely higher (25 states under $3/hour, 37 states under $5/hour).

 

Probably the only ways to fix this are to stop patronizing businesses that compensate their employees this way, or hope a white knight comes along and isn't afraid to take the hit (from customers, shareholders, etc.) by raising the wages of their employees to something fair and decent. I believe Starbucks is a leader in this area, but they're a minority in the food service industry.

 

TL; DR, I would say not to reduce or remove the gratuities entirely (whether pre-paid or paid daily) unless the service has truly been substandard and attempts to resolve the issues on-board were not successful.

 

Excellent post! People forget that it is not only cruise line staff that depend on tips for their salary.

 

For anyone who does not wish to pay the standard tips/gratuities/service charge it would make more sense to patronize a more luxury line or all inclusive where tips are part of the fare, and pay more in the first place.

[Grandma Dazzles]

i feel the same, when my kids were younger and at the kids club, the staff there were deserving of a tip but you never knew if they ever got it. so i would give them one myself. tipping is a very personal subject as you can tell from the people who get on their high horse regarding it. some people agree on tipping and some do not. its a choice.;)

 

The club staff are not part of the automatic gratuities being discussed. Any tips given to them are always given in person. A lot of choose not to tip them as they are paid professionals, often with a degree, and are paid accordingly. They are not the same as room stewards, waiters, kitchen staff, etc.

[dundeelass]

The club staff are not part of the automatic gratuities being discussed. Any tips given to them are always given in person. A lot of choose not to tip them as they are paid professionals, often with a degree, and are paid accordingly. They are not the same as room stewards, waiters, kitchen staff, etc.

 

like i say its a choice, not everyone can travel on the luxury lines.

[grandgeezer]

I think it's fairly well established that the crew rely on the gratuities to make up a large percentage of their wages. I believe most people agree that this shouldn't be the way cruise lines compensate their employees, but this is the way it is, and it's not going to change any time soon.

 

For those who believe the crew have knowingly consented to such a compensation model, and if they don't like it, they should get another job -- well technically that is true, but it's somewhat under duress. The crew are made up of many nationalities where a cruise line contract is probably one of the most lucrative employment prospects available, relatively speaking.

 

Most alternatives back home are so bad, that they'll take anything "less bad". I think this is why many crew who have families back home are willing to make the sacrifice to be away from them for months at a time, to provide for them.

 

If they could find a better job close to home and be with their families, wouldn't they do so? The "better" job opportunities simply aren't there in sufficient numbers, so most have to take what they can get.

 

Luck plays a huge role, too. I was lucky to be born in Canada and have a good education without breaking the bank. If I were born in an unstable, under-developed, or war-torn country, I'd probably be screwed like most people who live there regardless of "how hard I worked" or what have you.

 

Anyhow, this model of relying on customers' tips to substantially increase their employees' wages is still rampant across the U.S. It's not just on cruise lines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States

 

It looks like 20 states keep to the federally-mandated minimum wage of $2.13/hour for employees receiving at least $30 in tips/month. Many states offering above the minimum are barely higher (25 states under $3/hour, 37 states under $5/hour).

 

Probably the only ways to fix this are to stop patronizing businesses that compensate their employees this way, or hope a white knight comes along and isn't afraid to take the hit (from customers, shareholders, etc.) by raising the wages of their employees to something fair and decent. I believe Starbucks is a leader in this area, but they're a minority in the food service industry.

 

TL; DR, I would say not to reduce or remove the gratuities entirely (whether pre-paid or paid daily) unless the service has truly been substandard and attempts to resolve the issues on-board were not successful.

 

In a later post there is an interview with a former Carnival dining room employee. He stated that he worked 80 hours per week and got $60 month from them. If you believe him, that's less than $.20 per hour not including anything extra for overtime. It was also mentioned that room and board, etc was considered part of their wages. That's outrageous. I did a lot of traveling for work and it was paid for by the company. I understand that eventually the customer is going to pay, but why can't they give some dignity and pay them more up front?

[knittinggirl]

In a later post there is an interview with a former Carnival dining room employee. He stated that he worked 80 hours per week and got $60 month from them. If you believe him, that's less than $.20 per hour not including anything extra for overtime. It was also mentioned that room and board, etc was considered part of their wages. That's outrageous. I did a lot of traveling for work and it was paid for by the company. I understand that eventually the customer is going to pay, but why can't they give some dignity and pay them more up front?

An interesting book. He's also written a book on Ship's Auctions.

 

I worked for YMCA of the Rockies back in 1980, I got $200 a month plus Room, board and nurse visits. With room, board and limited medical paid, I got to save most of the income. We also worked until the job was done each day. Be that 3 hours or 12 hours. At age 23, those 12 hour days were killers. No tip income.

Edited February 19, 2016 by knittinggirl

[knittinggirl]

On another tip thread, someone mentioned if the Gratuities were included in the fare, we'd have to pay taxes on them. As they are a separate (voluntary) line item, passengers don't pay taxes on them.