Cancelling a Cruise (Promotional Deposit vs. Brochure Deposit)

[doggfan7]

Hello good people of Cruise Critic. I am trying to help my in-laws out in a dispute they are having with Celebrity at the moment. I wanted to get opinions here since we all know how sometimes we get headstrong and fail to see the forest for the trees, but to us the issue seems very clear.

 

My in-laws who are seasoned cruisers on Celebrity (in fact, it's the only line they have ever sailed) booked a European cruise setting sail this May. When they booked the cruise, they only put down a $50 deposit for the two of them combined. They have since paid the whole fare. Tomorrow will be 57 days before the cruise.

 

Due to the terrorist attacks going on over there (with their departure port being Amsterdam in close proximity with Belgium), they felt uncomfortable taking the cruise and wished to cancel. Opinions can vary about whether it's an over-reaction or not, but if they won't be comfortable, they won't enjoy their vacation, so why go?

 

When they contacted their travel agent (very popular online travel agency whose name will not be mentioned due to CC rules), they were told they need to forfeit $900, since that was the "brochure deposit". We were told (and I say we because they got me involved) that it is NOT in any written materials or policy they can give us, but it is "just the way it has always been" (that you forfeit brochure deposit, not promotional deposit).

 

The official Celebrity Cruise cancellation policy simply says "deposit" for cancellations 57 days out. It does not define "deposit" nor does it make any mention to differences for promotional deposits. See:

 

http://www.celebritycruises.com/frequently-asked-questions#faq5970

 

I figured that at least the travel agent's booking or website would disclaim something to this effect, but it does not. I am not going to link to my in-laws booking for obvious reasons, but the cancellation policy is identical to that of the celebrity policy linked above.

 

When Celebrity was contacted, we were told "it is the way it is done and your in-laws are Elite Members so they should know that." Rudeness aside, I (as both an attorney and a concerned family member) cannot understand how a cruise line can withhold funds above and beyond what their written policy states and which the passengers agreed to upon booking.

 

Please, friends of CC, show me the light and guide me to where we are wrong so that I can go back to important things!

Edited March 29, 2016 by doggfan7
Grammer

[stipmom]

I have a booking done via celebrity for a 12 day cruise booked onboard where I left a deposit of $100 each. Paperwork says cancellation 74-54,days before amount Lost is $450 which is standard deposit amount.

 

Probably travel agency does not want to show you it.

[doggfan7]

I have a booking done via celebrity for a 12 day cruise booked onboard where I left a deposit of $100 each. Paperwork says cancellation 74-54,days before amount Lost is $450 which is standard deposit amount.

 

Probably travel agency does not want to show you it.

 

Interesting...that is what I am looking for but doesn't seem to exist for this booking. I'm not sure why our travel agent wouldn't want us to see it, they are the ones arguing with us about it and if they had something like that to show us to shut us up I would imagine they would have done so already!

[jelayne]

It is my understanding that a promotional deposit just delayed payment of the normal deposit until final payment.

 

I just checked the documents from my online TA. Under All Cruise Line Penalties there is a sentence that say "Also, "deposit penalties" are based on the cruise line's brochure deposit amount

and may be more than the amount you actually paid for deposit at the time you made your reservation".

 

Checked documents from another online TA I have used in the past and a very similar statement is in there contract also.

 

Sorry, I know that wasnt what you wanted to hear.

[Ereggae]

Including Holiday Sailings & Cruisetours Cruise Length Days Prior to Departure Charges per Person

1 to 4 Nights 75 Days or more No charge

74 to 57 days Deposit amount

56 to 29 days 50% of Total Fare (taxes, fees & port expenses excluded)*

28 to 15 days No refund except for taxes and fees

5 Nights or longer 14 days or less No refund except for taxes, fees and port expenses

90 days or more No charge

89 to 57 days Deposit Amount

56 to 29 days 50% of Total Fare (taxes, fees and port expenses excluded)*

28 to 15 days 75% of Total Fare (taxes, fees and port expenses excluded)*

14 days or less No refund except for taxes, fees and port expenses

 

*Or deposit amount, whichever is greater

[hancock]

Your in-laws lose the $900. Don't bother arguing about it. If they purchased insurance with cancel for any reason, then they should get the money back through the insurance.

[jelayne]

Including Holiday Sailings & Cruisetours Cruise Length Days Prior to Departure Charges per Person

1 to 4 Nights 75 Days or more No charge

74 to 57 days Deposit amount

56 to 29 days 50% of Total Fare (taxes, fees & port expenses excluded)*

28 to 15 days No refund except for taxes and fees

5 Nights or longer 14 days or less No refund except for taxes, fees and port expenses

90 days or more No charge

89 to 57 days Deposit Amount

56 to 29 days 50% of Total Fare (taxes, fees and port expenses excluded)*

28 to 15 days 75% of Total Fare (taxes, fees and port expenses excluded)*

14 days or less No refund except for taxes, fees and port expenses

 

*Or deposit amount, whichever is greater

 

That is the same chart that is on all my bookings. The sentence I quoted earlier in the contract from both on-line TAs is in a paragraph above the chart.

[doggfan7]

Your in-laws lose the $900. Don't bother arguing about it. If they purchased insurance with cancel for any reason, then they should get the money back through the insurance.

 

That's fine, but I wanted them to show me why, written somewhere. They cannot do that. It's clear from other posters ITT that such language is usually included in their booking papers but in my in-laws case was not. If this was not the policy for this booking, why would anyone just say "okay, I'll consent to whatever you say just because that's what the documents should say."

[Sandy1975]

Awhile back I was going to book a cruise under the promotional $50 deposit. I was not sure we could take the days off but the price and perks in addition to the $50 deposit were really good. One of the questions I had was if I would only lose $50 should I cancel just after final payment and I was told that no, I would lose $900 (regular deposit). I didn't book because I was not sure I would know by the final payment whether I would be able to take the cruise or not.

[ISABELLA]

I had a situation where I was considering change cruises with a loss of a deposit which was only $100/pp. But TA explained that I will loose normal $450, since any deals on reduced deposit is considered as special deal and not normal deposit. It does make sense, but I also hoped it will be only $100.

Especially if cruise is paid in full, reduced deposit offer is irrelevant. You will loose full deposit. I know it is painful...

[afto]

Interesting...that is what I am looking for but doesn't seem to exist for this booking. I'm not sure why our travel agent wouldn't want us to see it, they are the ones arguing with us about it and if they had something like that to show us to shut us up I would imagine they would have done so already!

 

I wonder if at the time of booking your parents received some documentation that identified their $50 initial payment as a "reduced deposit" or "discounted deposit" or "promotional deposit" or some other wording that indicated that this payment did not fall into the same category as "deposit." That's just a thought; it would be a narrow opening through which Celebrity could wriggle its way out of refunding the rest of the $900. I agree with other posters that usual procedure would be to forfeit the "brochure deposit," but if they did not provide your parents with anything in writing to that effect, I don't see how they can expect your parents to know that. Good luck with this and please do let us know the outcome.

[BettyCruiser]

Do your parents have the Booking Confirmation-Guest Copy from Celebrity? This document clearly state the cancellation details for each booking. I don't usually have a copy because my TA uses her own form, but I booked my upcoming Hawaii cruise while on board another cruise so I received the Celebrity document. Although I only paid $100 per person deposit the confirmation clearly says 74-57 days prior to sailing beginning February 12 2016 cancelation amount is $450.00 deposit amount, and I assume that $450 is per person so $900 to cancel.

 

I also booked a cruise during the $25 deposit deal and there was small print to that effect if you took the time to read it.

 

Won't their insurance cover the deposit amount won't they also be losing a lot in airfare?

[Islandgirl4242]

Thanks for posting on the forum and raising questions for thought. Moving forward we will be much more aware of possible return deposit amounts when we book any cruise.

 

I'm sorry that your family members felt the need to cancel their cruise, but no one should travel at a time or to a place that they are not comfortable.

[elena7seas]

That's fine, but I wanted them to show me why, written somewhere. They cannot do that. It's clear from other posters ITT that such language is usually included in their booking papers but in my in-laws case was not. If this was not the policy for this booking, why would anyone just say "okay, I'll consent to whatever you say just because that's what the documents should say."

 

Yes they can. What your in-laws need to ask their Travel Agent for is the GUEST Copy of their BOOKING CONFIRMATION. This is available for every booking, and comes directly from Celebrity, at the request of the Travel Agent.

 

I have a cruise that I booked on March 1st, 2015, during a $25 per person deposit promotion. The total deposit for the two of us is shown on the Booking Confirmation as $50.00 USD.

 

Under the statement of the BOOKING CHARGES is a line in a differentiated font that states "Deposit amounts may vary by promotion".

 

In the bottom half of the BOOKING CONFIRMATION, in the section entitled "Cancellation Schedule", the first line states....

 

"74-57 Days Prior to Sailing [Cancellation Amount] 450.00 Deposit amount".

 

Now, whether the Travel Agent provided this booking confirmation to your in-laws at the time the deposit was made, is different story. But the Travel Agent absolutely can provide one now, if requested.

 

By the way, I also have a booking that is part of a Group Booking, and the same advisory regarding the Cancellation Amount shows on my Booking Confirmation for that reservation as well.

[upwarduk]

We cancelled a cruise last June.

We were told we would not loose our deposit if we transferred the booking to another cruise ( we can only do this once as we live in UK)

There should have been a charge of £35 for doing this, but this would be waived as we are Elite.

Insurance can only be claimed if it is an expensive ' all eventualities.' I could not claim on ours, as I had not been made redundant ( we had just decided that we could not afford to cruise, as seasonal work had not worked out last year)

[gimletgal]

Yes they can. What your in-laws need to ask their Travel Agent for is the GUEST Copy of their BOOKING CONFIRMATION. This is available for every booking, and comes directly from Celebrity, at the request of the Travel Agent.

 

I have a cruise that I booked on March 1st, 2015, during a $25 per person deposit promotion. The total deposit for the two of us is shown on the Booking Confirmation as $50.00 USD.

 

Under the statement of the BOOKING CHARGES is a line in a differentiated font that states "Deposit amounts may vary by promotion".

 

In the bottom half of the BOOKING CONFIRMATION, in the section entitled "Cancellation Schedule", the first line states....

 

"74-57 Days Prior to Sailing [Cancellation Amount] 450.00 Deposit amount".

 

Now, whether the Travel Agent provided this booking confirmation to your in-laws at the time the deposit was made, is different story. But the Travel Agent absolutely can provide one now, if requested.

 

By the way, I also have a booking that is part of a Group Booking, and the same advisory regarding the Cancellation Amount shows on my Booking Confirmation for that reservation as well.

 

This is 100% correct. I doesn't matter what the "actual deposit" made - it is the "standard deposit" that becomes non-refundable.

[villauk]

We cancelled a cruise last June.

We were told we would not loose our deposit if we transferred the booking to another cruise ( we can only do this once as we live in UK)

There should have been a charge of £35 for doing this, but this would be waived as we are Elite.

Insurance can only be claimed if it is an expensive ' all eventualities.' I could not claim on ours, as I had not been made redundant ( we had just decided that we could not afford to cruise, as seasonal work had not worked out last year)

 

You were allowed to transfer the deposit even after final payment? That's what the OP is asking as they are already past the final payment date and so are questioning the 'full' deposit that they will lose.

 

Not all TAs provide their clients with the customer copy of the booking from X, however, there should definitely be one.

[upwarduk]

You were allowed to transfer the deposit even after final payment? That's what the OP is asking as they are already past the final payment date and so are questioning the 'full' deposit that they will lose.

 

No sorry, I was suggesting they transfer to another cruise, as they are 57 days out ( post 5)

Personally, I think they may have left this too late, depending on their TA and whether they ring Celebrity, or email them. Unfortunately the last TA we used, emailed Celebrity and answers took far too long.

The only way I was able to get satisfaction regarding our loss of air fare which was linked with the cancelled cruise, was to go via FB. I then got their attention, as nowhere did we have in writing that we would be charged airfare. T&C (as set out in the brochure, was a charge of £25 for a change in flight)

Edited March 29, 2016 by upwarduk

[az_tchr]

The only possible options are to transfer this to another cruise or lose the $900 deposit. If they get on a 3 way discussion about terrorism concerns they might get a sympathetic ear. If to Turkey or another port stop with a warning you probably can get assistance. That said would guess Celebrity will collect the $900 which is correct.

[sparky-elpaso]

I think what may be missing here is that the remaining payment amount they would have paid would have been increased by the difference between the "reduced deposit" and the normal deposit amount.

 

Sort of like this:

 

Total cruise price $3,000 $3,000

Reduced deposit 100 Normal deposit $900

Remaining balance $2,900 $2,100

 

I wouldn't expect that any business would have to try to figure out what kind of "deal" was made at the outset of thousands of transactions. The bookkeeping would be horrendous. They have to come up with a "normal" set of circumstances to use all of the time.

[Jade13]

Awhile back I was going to book a cruise under the promotional $50 deposit. I was not sure we could take the days off but the price and perks in addition to the $50 deposit were really good. One of the questions I had was if I would only lose $50 should I cancel just after final payment and I was told that no, I would lose $900 (regular deposit). I didn't book because I was not sure I would know by the final payment whether I would be able to take the cruise or not.

 

 

How do they collect it if the brochure deposit hasn't been paid yet? We canceled an Azamara cruise last year. We actually received our full deposit back after a long fight (different circumstance - we wanted to move to a different cruise/date before final payment and they said US citizens could only move a booking once - they still haven't shown me where it says that) but if we had asked to cancel our cruise how would they be able to get $900.00 from us when our deposit total was only $100.00 for both of us? (I know, it was an old deposit)

 

I see your response has to do with canceling right after the final due date which is the issue this couple is having. But question is the same on how they collect if the amount hasn't been paid.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Jade13

[Jade13]

The only possible options are to transfer this to another cruise or lose the $900 deposit. If they get on a 3 way discussion about terrorism concerns they might get a sympathetic ear. If to Turkey or another port stop with a warning you probably can get assistance. That said would guess Celebrity will collect the $900 which is correct.

 

 

I agree this is the best route to try to transfer to another cruise based on terrorism concerns.

[ThursdaysChild]

Do your parents have the Booking Confirmation-Guest Copy from Celebrity? This document clearly state the cancellation details for each booking. I don't usually have a copy because my TA uses her own form, but I booked my upcoming Hawaii cruise while on board another cruise so I received the Celebrity document. Although I only paid $100 per person deposit the confirmation clearly says 74-57 days prior to sailing beginning February 12 2016 cancelation amount is $450.00 deposit amount, and I assume that $450 is per person so $900 to cancel.

 

I also booked a cruise during the $25 deposit deal and there was small print to that effect if you took the time to read it.

 

Won't their insurance cover the deposit amount won't they also be losing a lot in airfare?

 

I ALWAYS insist that any TA I use give me a Guest Copy of the reservation from Celebrity. I book nearly all of my cruises onboard, or with reduced deposits. Here's a copy and paste from my Guest Copy for my upcoming cruise (I removed the dates):

 

Cancellation Schedule Cancellation Amount Date

74 to 57 Days Prior to Sailing 450.00 Deposit Amount

56 to 29 Days Prior to Sailing 50% of Total Price

28 to 15 Days Prior to Sailing 75% of Total Price

14 to 0 Days Prior to Sailing 100% of Total Price

 

 

My deposit was $100.00 per person.

Please note that cancelling 56or fewer days before sailing forfeits 50% of the total price!

[villauk]

How do they collect it if the brochure deposit hasn't been paid yet? We canceled an Azamara cruise last year. We actually received our full deposit back after a long fight (different circumstance - we wanted to move to a different cruise/date before final payment and they said US citizens could only move a booking once - they still haven't shown me where it says that) but if we had asked to cancel our cruise how would they be able to get $900.00 from us when our deposit total was only $100.00 for both of us? (I know, it was an old deposit)

 

I see your response has to do with canceling right after the final due date which is the issue this couple is having. But question is the same on how they collect if the amount hasn't been paid.

 

Because up to 75 days (current final payment date that is due to alter shortly) it's a refundable deposit, so you would get you money back i.e. $100 in your case. After final payment they have all your funds, therefore removing the penalty amount before any refund. If you didn't pay on the 75 day deadline, your booking would be cancelled anyway ;).

[doggfan7]

Thank you everyone for your comments and assistance. It's clear (and pretty much always was) what Celebrity's standard policy was/is. There is no dispute on that. My concern was that this policy was somehow absent from any of the documentation that was received. Their travel agent did not provide a guest copy of the booking from Celebrity as some had requested. They fully expected that they would lose the $900 because neither wanted to start a war over something that clearly SHOULD have been disclosed to them.

 

Still, I think it's a prudent lesson for all of us when booking cruises with promotional deposits.