NYT article about the "classes" of travel

[kangforpres]

Hi Everyone-

 

I know CC is not always the best place to solicit thought or commentary about societal issues but this is a really good article about NCL's "Haven" and privileged or upgraded travel in general versus travel for the masses. Let me know what you think.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/economy/velvet-rope-economy.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

[PatsyAnne]

My first time on a ship (Nieuw Amsterdam) in 1970, I was in second class, or whatever it was called. One of the stewards snuck me into first class so I could see the difference. Same movie, different theater. I was perfectly happy with where I was, and I (okay, my parents since I was still in college) could afford the trip home from Europe. I got what I paid for and it was a wonderful experience. I like that we don't have classes on the HAL ships, although it sounds like Neptune Suites offer some exclusivity. But meanwhile, until I win the lottery, I'm happy that I can travel as one of the masses, and have no problem with others paying more and having their own experience. However, if we're talking about shrinking seats in airplane steerage...

[I&J Cruisers]

Airlines have had first class forever. This is nothing more than trying to attract a passenger that would otherwise sail on a much more upscale line than NCL. I don't see anything wrong with that. I get what I pay for. Someone with more discretionary money is paying for and getting more.

 

 

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[jig]

Leave it to the New York Times to make a political statement about a cruise. This is not an egalerterian country. We have always had people that could afford more and spent more. Mass market cruise lines are seeing their passengers going to seebourne or silversea or regent. This is a way to try to keep them in the family.

Somehow I think "Pinch" is very picky who gets into the private clubs he belongs to. New Yorkers like myself might remember what happened when patti Davis , pres reagan's daughter tried to dare move into the building he lied in.

Article about nothing.

 

 

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[Tarpeian Rock]

Leave it to the New York Times to make a political statement about a cruise. This is not an egalerterian country. We have always had people that could afford more and spent more. Mass market cruise lines are seeing their passengers going to seebourne or silversea or regent. This is a way to try to keep them in the family.

Somehow I think "Pinch" is very picky who gets into the private clubs he belongs to. New Yorkers like myself might remember what happened when patti Davis , pres reagan's daughter tried to dare move into the building he lied in.

Article about nothing.

 

 

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I think you nailed it. The conceit and misinformation of the article was that the "1%" travels on NCL to begin with. Those pointed words about the mass of lax having to "go past frosted glass." Really. This was an article about politics, not travel.

[kangforpres]

Well if you don't understand the inherit importance of class when just being able to cruise while 90% of the crew are from 3rd world countries who work 16 hour days just to make your on-board experience as pleasant as possible. I understand how the article would be totally lost on you.

 

I grew up poor and working class, didn't get to fly commercial until I was 18 and a freshman in college. Moved to California with $200 in my pocket and a one way Amtrak coach ticket.

 

Now I'm upper middle class and I get to fly first class and stay in Neptune Suites. I'm forever grateful for the good fortune, I always knew when i could afford to I would travel often if for nothing else just for the experience because i didn't get to do it when I was younger and some of my friends where spending summers "abroad" like they were entitled to it.

 

I work with the public and see first hand the disparagement in our society toward the poor, We choose HAL because it is still mostly classless and hope it stays that way. NCL and RCI Brands do not appeal to us I was just trying to promote discussion beyond Gala Nights and Smoking policy.

 

Travel in Peace and remember how lucky you are just to travel,

 

Paul

Edited April 25, 2016 by kangforpres

[PatsyAnne]

Paul, I am forever grateful for our ability to travel. And like a lot of other people on this board, there was little money to spare when I was growing up. My trip to Europe one summer was affordable due to scholarships, work savings, and a cot in my sister's and BIL's kitchen, and coming home by ship was cheaper than flying then. But like now, experiences and travel were a priority and my family made it work. I don't say I grew up poor because we had a roof, food, books, and education.

 

That's one reason the article didn't represent my feelings. I don't take a trip upset about perks someone else is getting. It's no skin off my back, and I don't feel relegated to a lower class because someone else has more. We are lucky enough to make the trade off for more days traveling in a more economical stateroom. Good choices to have.

[Cruizer Bill]

Many of us travel now because we practiced "Delayed Gratification" during our lives. We lived well within our means, and then saved and INVESTED our money so it would grow and we would have more when we retired. Personally, DW and I did not buy new cars and take many expensive trips. I carried my lunch to work every day for over 20 years and that saved me enough to buy a new car if I wanted. We NEVER go to expensive restaurants, even today, instead, we spend money on cruising. So it is not all about luck, just part of it.

[RMLincoln]

A somewhat different point of view is that those who chose to book premium-priced rooms help subsidize the less expensive room fares.

 

Cruise lines have to make money so they find all kinds of ways to do that: casinos, alcohol, sodas, bottled water, gelato, specialty coffee, specialty restaurants, photos, bingo... and yes, premium rooms. I thinks this is a win - win - win deal: good for the cruise line, good for the folks who want the fancier rooms and their perks, and good for the value cruiser too. This way I don't have to pay for things I'm not interested in or decide aren't in my budget but I can still cruise, and others can get what they want. Works for me. m--

[cruisemom42]

A somewhat different point of view is that those who chose to book premium-priced rooms help subsidize the less expensive room fares.

 

Cruise lines have to make money so they find all kinds of ways to do that: casinos, alcohol, sodas, bottled water, gelato, specialty coffee, specialty restaurants, photos, bingo... and yes, premium rooms. I thinks this is a win - win - win deal: good for the cruise line, good for the folks who want the fancier rooms and their perks, and good for the value cruiser too. This way I don't have to pay for things I'm not interested in or decide aren't in my budget but I can still cruise, and others can get what they want. Works for me. m--

 

I agree with this up to a point. I don't begrudge passengers paying more for a larger cabin with its associated perks. However, I do think things are going a bit far when areas on some ships are specifically and only for certain passengers' use. Special dining rooms, special pool areas, and so on.

 

I suppose I have been cruising too long; attitudes have really shifted from the early days of cruising when all passengers were more or less equal once they stepped outside their cabin door. All ate at the same dining room, all used the same pool. And people (or at least so they said) preferred this to what at the time was thought of as the class system on the old ocean liners.

[kelleherdl]

I agree with this up to a point. I don't begrudge passengers paying more for a larger cabin with its associated perks. However, I do think things are going a bit far when areas on some ships are specifically and only for certain passengers' use. Special dining rooms, special pool areas, and so on.

 

I suppose I have been cruising too long; attitudes have really shifted from the early days of cruising when all passengers were more or less equal once they stepped outside their cabin door. All ate at the same dining room, all used the same pool. And people (or at least so they said) preferred this to what at the time was thought of as the class system on the old ocean liners.

 

What if the 'special' areas did not exist if the cruise line did not see the revenue potential to build them in the first place. Is that taking away something from the general cruiser? I think not. I have never sailed NCL and stayed in the Haven, but it is my understanding these are purpose built areas that were not repurposed from general spaces. I think it is no different that HAL is adding the Retreats to space that either did not exist before or was underutilized.

 

Dennis

[brainyblonde]

The photo in our newspaper of the Haven showed two under twelve years of age children, one on the recliner, one on the edge of the pool. Other people's children are not the idea of a luxury experience for me.

[colonialinnkeeper]

An interesting article. We like HAL because there is no "in your face" class system. We will be cruising QM 2 for our first Cunard experience and I am curious to see if/what the differences are.

[OlsSalt]

Victimology:101

[Tampa Girl]

 

I suppose I have been cruising too long; attitudes have really shifted from the early days of cruising when all passengers were more or less equal once they stepped outside their cabin door. All ate at the same dining room, all used the same pool. And people (or at least so they said) preferred this to what at the time was thought of as the class system on the old ocean liners.

 

When was that? Cunard has always had and still does have different classes of passengers. While all the passengers today can enjoy the entire ship, the Grills passengers have exclusive use of their own dining rooms.

 

As for U.S. ships, I sailed on the SS United States in the 60's, and there were three classes of ship, each with its own dining room. More or less equal? I don't think so.

[sammiedawg]

Victimology:101

 

Yes.

In the US certain media outlets pound and pound on this theme. Forget personal responsibility. It is laughable they cared the rhetoric to an article about cruising.

I can almost guarantee the real 1% is not traveling on NCL.

 

Thanks for posting the link.

[avian777]

Leave it to the New York Times to make a political statement about a cruise ... Article about nothing.

 

I think you nailed it. The conceit and misinformation of the article ... This was an article about politics, not travel.

 

Victimology:101

 

... absolutely spot on!!! This sort of nonsensical (and hypocritical) article is unfortunately typical of the NYT and probably explains why the NYT just announced another layoff of 150 employees as it faces steadily declining readership. RIP, NYT!!!

[RocketMan275]

We've sailed Oasis RCI in one of their crown loft suites located behind a key pass door. Loved the two level cabin and it had the best shower (big enough for two with a rain forest shower) we've ever had on a cruise ship.

 

On Oasis, we had access to their Coastal Kitchens for all our meals. In our opinion, it was vastly overrated. Imagine a MDR menu that only changed once during a seven day cruise. The lunch menu did not change. We actually preferred the 'crowded buffet tables in the Windjammer'.

 

We've sailed on Westerdam and enjoyed the Neptune suite more than the crown loft. Just wish HAL would ditch the bathtub and put in a better shower.

 

In general, we scrimped for years. We drove 10 year old cars and took our lunches to work. We invested all we could. We're retired now and look forward to a bit of pampering.

 

BTW, we've considered the Haven and decided not to try it. We're balcony people and we'd rather have a nice balcony than a private pool.

Edited April 25, 2016 by RocketMan275

[cruisemom42]

When was that? Cunard has always had and still does have different classes of passengers. While all the passengers today can enjoy the entire ship, the Grills passengers have exclusive use of their own dining rooms.

 

As for U.S. ships, I sailed on the SS United States in the 60's, and there were three classes of ship, each with its own dining room. More or less equal? I don't think so.

 

I'm talking about the 1970s, the birth of the true "cruise" industry -- not using ships to travel from place to place but as a way of vacationing. Sitmar, for example, or Royal Viking Line.

[dogo88]

When I looked at Haven costs it was over double my "non Haven" costs. I'd rather go on two cruises than one Haven cruise.

 

Dan

[jig]

... absolutely spot on!!! This sort of nonsensical (and hypocritical) article is unfortunately typical of the NYT and probably explains why the NYT just announced another layoff of 150 employees as it faces steadily declining readership. RIP, NYT!!!

 

 

Bet they won't be taking a cruise for a while. Maybe they should have gotten a job at a media that people read.

 

 

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[Tampa Girl]

I'm talking about the 1970s, the birth of the true "cruise" industry -- not using ships to travel from place to place but as a way of vacationing. Sitmar, for example, or Royal Viking Line.

 

All three of the Cunard ships do cruises, as well. It is the QM2 N. Atlantic run that is frequently used for transportation. All three vessels also do world cruises. I don't know if any other cruise line has separate dining rooms today. (Besides NCL)

[RuthC]

All three of the Cunard ships do cruises, as well. It is the QM2 N. Atlantic run that is frequently used for transportation. All three vessels also do world cruises. I don't know if any other cruise line has separate dining rooms today. (Besides NCL)

There was a time, back in the 70s, that Cunard had a couple of ships that were single-class. There was no such thing as "Grill Class" dining rooms on those ships.

[cruisemom42]

All three of the Cunard ships do cruises, as well. It is the QM2 N. Atlantic run that is frequently used for transportation. All three vessels also do world cruises. I don't know if any other cruise line has separate dining rooms today. (Besides NCL)

 

Celebrity has "Luminae" -- their suite-only dining room. Plus the special dining room for the Aqua cabins ("Blu").

 

I was excepting Cunard from my remarks. But even still, I don't recall their two purpose-built cruise ships (as opposed to ocean liners) in the 1970s -- the Cunard Countess and Cunard Princess -- having a class system onboard.

[galensgrl]

That was an interesting article. But I will say DH and I started our cruising life in an ocean view cabin on NCL, got upgraded to a balcony on our second cruise, and have had a balcony room for every cruise since then, which is 6 cruises plus the one we are embarking on in 3 days. We contemplated a Neptune suite but decided not this time. They were a little pricey as we are the second leg of what is a three part cruise, so those Neptunes were commanding top dollar. I don't envy those who get what they paid for, they deserve special treatment for the prices they pay, I mean $10,000 for a cruise for 2 for a week better pay for some kind of special treatment. Right now we aspire to a Neptune or similar suite, when the timing and price are right. The exclusivity aspect doesn't appeal to us, we could care less about buying into that aspect of things. I shy away from anything that reeks of snobbery. But more real estate and other perks will woo us into booking a suite one day.