Navigator a disappointment- dogs & other issues

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

From what I understand, you just have to declare them a service animal:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/contentWithHero.do?pagename=service_animals

 

 

Holy crap, I'm taking my Siberian Husky on a cruise!!!!

 

ArRrrRrrooOooOoooOooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CVU]

Under ADA you don't even need a doctor or a vet. It is enough that the owner says it's a service dog and can describe a task the dog does to assist them (whether the dog actually is trained to do the task or not, since they can't be required to demonstrate it).

Well, I guess we can expect lots of dogs on the ships now......?

[suzyluvs2cruise]

Well, I guess we can expect lots of dogs on the ships now......?

 

There were 5 dogs on the Jewel TA.

[LMaxwell]

Why do international workers on a foreign flagged and foreign owned ship have to comply with ADA? RCI Miami is really just a reservations/logistics/management company

[chengkp75]

Why do international workers on a foreign flagged and foreign owned ship have to comply with ADA? RCI Miami is really just a reservations/logistics/management company

 

Short answer, because the US Supreme Court says so.

 

Long answer is because while in US waters or ports, cruise ships provide "public accommodation" and "specified public transportation" which "requires covered entities to make “reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures” to accommodate disabled persons," and the court ruled that "reasonable barrier removals" that interfered with SOLAS requirements would not be required.

 

As I've stated before, the justices noted that the ship's "internal procedures and policies" were not subject to the ADA, because "As a matter of international comity, a clear statement of congressional intent is necessary before a general statutory requirement can interfere with matters that concern a foreign-flag vessel’s internal affairs and operations". So, the justices said that without a modification to the ADA specifically requiring foreign cruise ships to meet the ADA in internal affairs and operations, there is no "clear statement of congressional intent". To date, Congress has failed to address this amendment.

[avalon007]

WOW - 'America the land of self identity' :eek:

 

I absolutely love dogs but if I want to self identify as one which bathroom should I use?

 

Honestly, watching US news of late & now reading some of this thread I have to wonder what is next America?

 

At first I thought this thread was a joke, but seems not.

 

This growing culture of everyone has the right to be, or say, or do what they want without question or care as to whom else it affects & if you disagree your a racist, bigoted, sexist, ageist, disability phobic or any other title the PC culture wants to label you with to shut you up, is leading to one big societal collapse. Just Google transabled to see how far things can go.

 

I have all respect for the legitimately identifiably disabled, but if you have a health issue that a dog can assist you with then you need to have that assessed by a professional & the dog needs to be certified & trained as such. Nobody should be able to claim their pet is a service dog just because they feel like it. :rolleyes:

 

PUBLIC SAFETY MESSAGE: If anyone is offended by my opinion then there is probably a safe room just around the corner you can run to with all the other victims traumatised by free speech. :p

[BeachChik]

I don't think they were attempting to use the word "crippled" in a demeaning manner. That is what people with various disabilities or handicaps were called years ago. Also, not everyone is quite so sensitive. So, again, I don't believe that they were trying to be rude - they are probably like me - and don't buy into "politically correct."

 

It has nothing to do with being pc and everything to do with respect. Calling someone with a disability a cripple is just rude. You don't call people with Down syndrome the r word for the same reason. It sounds terrible and it's disrespectful. Whether it was used years ago or not doesn't make it better.

[Paulette3028]

 

Apparently the need for a service animal will trump allergies.

 

True service animals will never be found on chairs or table tops eating food from the table......and all it would take would be for someone to sit on a chair that had been previously occupied by someone's pet, to have an allergic reaction occur and someone's breathing to stop. That is how severe some allergic reactions can be.

[LMaxwell]

Short answer, because the US Supreme Court says so.

 

Long answer is because while in US waters or ports, cruise ships provide "public accommodation" and "specified public transportation" which "requires covered entities to make “reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures” to accommodate disabled persons," and the court ruled that "reasonable barrier removals" that interfered with SOLAS requirements would not be required.

 

As I've stated before, the justices noted that the ship's "internal procedures and policies" were not subject to the ADA, because "As a matter of international comity, a clear statement of congressional intent is necessary before a general statutory requirement can interfere with matters that concern a foreign-flag vessel’s internal affairs and operations". So, the justices said that without a modification to the ADA specifically requiring foreign cruise ships to meet the ADA in internal affairs and operations, there is no "clear statement of congressional intent". To date, Congress has failed to address this amendment.

 

Thanks, that is a much more indepth response than I anticipated receiving!

 

Surely there's nothing illegal about a private citizen "calling out" another person.

 

"Hey buddy, I don't think that's a service dog, take him down from the table". I can see how that's a problem for a business, but if I said it to someone with a baby doll dressed dog that's a different story.

[Ocean Dancer]

Sometimes the older generation (baby boomers and up) use words that they were raised with and no disrespect is meant at all. My mother who just passed in January called herself a cripple and she was a fine classy woman.

 

Although I agree it wasn't the best choice of a word.....I know no lack of respect or rudeness was exhibited.

[Paulette3028]

I don't think I've seen in any of the previous postings a single concern with true service animals. What I've seen are comments about how RCL is not enforcing their own rules to appease a very small group of people to the detriment of thousands.

If I saw a "service" animal conducting itself, or the owner doing the things mentioned in previous postings, I'd first make a formal complaint to the person in charge of that facility. If that didn't resolve the issue, I'd move my compliant up to the next level. If the issue wasn't resolved, I'd remove all my tips for food service.

If more customers would make their complaints known in the end of cruise reviews, we'd surely outnumber the few that allow their dogs to relieve themselves as they please, eat from the tables, sit on the furniture, roam about without a leash, etc.

 

I can't say I agree with what you say: "If the issue wasn't resolved, I'd remove all my tips for food service". Clearly you are missing the point. Upper Management, at the Hotel Manager Level or Captain, at the end of the day is responsible for enforcement of policy. Taking it out on the wait staff, is idiotic.

 

I agree with moving the issue up the ladder and to the top of the ladder, but penalizing the lowest level worker on the ladder is senseless.

[Paulette3028]

I don't think they were attempting to use the word "crippled" in a demeaning manner. That is what people with various disabilities or handicaps were called years ago. Also, not everyone is quite so sensitive. So, again, I don't believe that they were trying to be rude - they are probably like me - and don't buy into "politically correct."

 

 

It has nothing to do with being pc and everything to do with respect. Calling someone with a disability a cripple is just rude. You don't call people with Down syndrome the r word for the same reason. It sounds terrible and it's disrespectful. Whether it was used years ago or not doesn't make it better.

 

A2Mich -- you may not buy into the 'politically correct' part of the issue, but society has come a long way in how it refers to people who for whatever reason are in some way different or challenged. It has a great deal to do with respect both given and perceived.

 

My parents (clearly from a generation where some words may have been commonly used) often used labels that I never wanted my children to hear.....and I told them enough times, not to use those terms....eventually they stopped, at least in the presence of me and my children -- I might not have been able to change how they spoke at other times.

 

Using the excuse "not everyone is quite so sensitive" is nonsense, it is just a cover up for someone else's poor behavior.

[LMaxwell]

I can't say I agree with what you say: "If the issue wasn't resolved, I'd remove all my tips for food service". Clearly you are missing the point. Upper Management, at the Hotel Manager Level or Captain, at the end of the day is responsible for enforcement of policy. Taking it out on the wait staff, is idiotic.

 

I agree with moving the issue up the ladder and to the top of the ladder, but penalizing the lowest level worker on the ladder is senseless.

 

I understand what you are saying and mostly am in agreement, but let's play Devil's Advocate a second and look at it from the other side.

 

If you have an issue with the services and address it with onboard management and they are unwilling or unable to correct the situation, those daily charges are you only leverage. I *DO* think asking to have a dog that is violating the lines own rules removed from the dining room, or at a minimum ask the owner to comply with the rules, is a reasonable request and within the power of onboard management to resolve.

 

I am categorically NOT saying it is the right thing to do, but I understand it and I wouldn't hold it against someone if they went through the right channels first to get the issue resolved and it fell on deaf ears. Someone is going to be unhappy here; the guest, or the worker, and both are going to put pressure on management.

 

$$$ is a universal language.

 

It's a shame that issues like this can't be resolved without the hurdle of "the poor workers" card being played. RCI's rules about the dogs are pretty clear....and it's for reasons of health and safety.

 

Who gets sued if another guest gets bitten by a pet someone lied to sneak on? The pet owner or RCI? Or both?

[Paulette3028]

I understand what you are saying and mostly am in agreement, but let's play Devil's Advocate a second and look at it from the other side.

 

If you have an issue with the services and address it with onboard management and they are unwilling or unable to correct the situation, those daily charges are you only leverage. I *DO* think asking to have a dog that is violating the lines own rules removed from the dining room, or at a minimum ask the owner to comply with the rules, is a reasonable request and within the power of onboard management to resolve.

 

I am categorically NOT saying it is the right thing to do, but I understand it and I wouldn't hold it against someone if they went through the right channels first to get the issue resolved and it fell on deaf ears. Someone is going to be unhappy here; the guest, or the worker, and both are going to put pressure on management.

 

$$$ is a universal language.

 

It's a shame that issues like this can't be resolved without the hurdle of "the poor workers" card being played. RCI's rules about the dogs are pretty clear....and it's for reasons of health and safety.

 

Who gets sued if another guest gets bitten by a pet someone lied to sneak on? The pet owner or RCI? Or both?

 

LMaxwell, you and I have had some great 'differences of opinion' and often we agree more than we disagree.....which makes it all very good.

 

I can't answer who gets sued if a person is bitten by a dog on board....I speculate both....the pet owner would surely be sued if it happened on land and I expect would be if it happened on a ship and the cruise line would be sued if they knew prior to the altercation that the dog was not meeting the standards they have set by their own guideline.

 

But why penalize the low end worker, is my issue. If the Hotel Manager along with the Captain (you personally don't know me, but let me tell you I would take it that far) would not enforce Royals codes as listed (and from now on, I am going to have a printout with me) it would not take me much time to fire off an email to Michael Bayley (and perhaps a few others that I can think of). I would do it, right in front of the Hotel Manager and Captain. It will get attention, not because of any personal relationship....because the situation will demand the attention. It might not solve the problem at that moment....but I feel certain it would start a chain of conversations to move the issue forward....far more than 'taking away a few tips from people that have NO ability to enforce anything).

[LMaxwell]

LMaxwell, you and I have had some great 'differences of opinion' and often we agree more than we disagree.....which makes it all very good.

 

I can't answer who gets sued if a person is bitten by a dog on board....I speculate both....the pet owner would surely be sued if it happened on land and I expect would be if it happened on a ship and the cruise line would be sued if they knew prior to the altercation that the dog was not meeting the standards they have set by their own guideline.

 

But why penalize the low end worker, is my issue. If the Hotel Manager along with the Captain (you personally don't know me, but let me tell you I would take it that far) would not enforce Royals codes as listed (and from now on, I am going to have a printout with me) it would not take me much time to fire off an email to Michael Bayley (and perhaps a few others that I can think of). I would do it, right in front of the Hotel Manager and Captain. It will get attention, not because of any personal relationship....because the situation will demand the attention. It might not solve the problem at that moment....but I feel certain it would start a chain of conversations to move the issue forward....far more than 'taking away a few tips from people that have NO ability to enforce anything).

 

 

 

Firing off an email to the CEO may get you a response after you've gotten off the ship; but I have my sincere doubts as to whether it would resolve the issue while onboard. I doubt the efficacy of your approach. And, just speaking honestly, the amount of hassle and arguing I'd have to go through to get the attention of the Captain would absolutely dominate my vacation time and ruin my vacation. It's like trying to reach a store owner to rectify the situation of a bad employee. Sometimes more grief than the original issue.

 

Just saying, companies mostly speak one universal language: $$$. When people complain AND take away money that corporate things tend to happen faster.

 

I'd just hand the worker cash. Not the waiters fault really. Can't penalize them.

 

I've yet to be impressed by the response of Mr. Bayley on any issues. For someone who use to work in guest services onboard ships he sure does seem to have insulated himself from onboard issues.

 

You're certainly not wrong, but if I took your approach I'd get off that ship with a level of frustration and aggravation through the roof watching that dog eat off the table every day while my strongly worded email went unanswered.

 

BTW - I've heard good things about Ichyami in Boca. http://www.ichiyami.com Going to try that next. My job actually has me spending more time around the Sunrise area, if you know good sushi there let's hear it :)

[Paulette3028]

Firing off an email to the CEO may get you a response after you've gotten off the ship; but I have my sincere doubts as to whether it would resolve the issue while onboard. I doubt the efficacy of your approach. And, just speaking honestly, the amount of hassle and arguing I'd have to go through to get the attention of the Captain would absolutely dominate my vacation time and ruin my vacation. It's like trying to reach a store owner to rectify the situation of a bad employee. Sometimes more grief than the original issue.

 

Just saying, companies mostly speak one universal language: $$$. When people complain AND take away money that corporate things tend to happen faster.

 

I'd just hand the worker cash. Not the waiters fault really. Can't penalize them.

 

I've yet to be impressed by the response of Mr. Bayley on any issues. For someone who use to work in guest services onboard ships he sure does seem to have insulated himself from onboard issues.

 

You're certainly not wrong, but if I took your approach I'd get off that ship with a level of frustration and aggravation through the roof watching that dog eat off the table every day while my strongly worded email went unanswered.

 

BTW - I've heard good things about Ichyami in Boca. http://www.ichiyami.com Going to try that next. My job actually has me spending more time around the Sunrise area, if you know good sushi there let's hear it :)

 

And yes, the international language of business is $$$ but not penalizing the worker, who really can't handle the issue, is merely a pawn in the tragic event. I don't necessarily agree that going through the act of sending the email gets no response....it might IMMEDIATELY get those on board in charge to take an action....since MOST people complain and then don't follow up...the belly ache to the Hotel Manager or Captain and then 'walk off to their own cabin'....when now that hasn't happened...and it may not be so easily 'shoved under the carpet'.

[2CatsInFlorida]

Most illogical. The only people who will suffer are the waitstaff.

 

 

I think withholding gratuities is the only logical way to express displeasure to guest services at having dogs on ships, or smokers for that matter.

 

And if the waiter doesn't enforce the rules they shouldn't get a tip.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

Edited May 24, 2016 by 2CatsInFlorida

[tiessa]

I think withholding gratuities is the only logical way to express displeasure to guest services at having dogs on ships, or smokers for that matter.

 

And if the waiter doesn't enforce the rules they shouldn't get a tip.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

 

 

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to justify not tipping.

 

Send the pup over to the smoking section with me and we'll all be happy! We'll tip a little extra to make up for your bad manners.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[LMaxwell]

And yes, the international language of business is $$$ but not penalizing the worker, who really can't handle the issue, is merely a pawn in the tragic event. I don't necessarily agree that going through the act of sending the email gets no response....it might IMMEDIATELY get those on board in charge to take an action....since MOST people complain and then don't follow up...the belly ache to the Hotel Manager or Captain and then 'walk off to their own cabin'....when now that hasn't happened...and it may not be so easily 'shoved under the carpet'.

 

Just saying at that point it's like being at work, not on vacation. If onboard management allows it to get to that point they have already failed to do their job and I'm not exactly feeling the Wow at that point; know what I mean? I know what its like to chase a company to do the right thing. Frustrating. On vacation? Triply so. If it does not faze you, more power to you my friend.

 

No issue on my end whatsoever with real service animals, but the fakers are so obviously easy to spot.

 

When someone gets bitten and sues RCI for millions maybe then they'll start enforcing the rules...

[LMaxwell]

Sounds like you are looking for an excuse to justify not tipping.

 

Send the pup over to the smoking section with me and we'll all be happy! We'll tip a little extra to make up for your bad manners.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

You sound like the type to leave dog waste and cigarette butts without cleaning up.

 

See how easy it is to pass stupid judgments based on nothing? :rolleyes:

[mollyeilis]

The "bottle of wine for 2 2-for-2 coupons" thing is odd. Not sure why they would do that for you. I'd be happy with just the glasses of wine.

 

 

 

If the dog owners were breaking Royal's rules, say something. Complain. Like if someone's smoking outside of the smoking area, complain. Employees aren't likely to do something that might get their tips cut unless others are complaining.

 

I see you did complain. Repeatedly? Did you talk to the owners of the animal? I hope so. It really seemed to have bothered you.

 

 

 

just curious was it a seeing eye dog? I've seen more and more of these service dogs everywhere certified as "emotional" service dogs. It makes their owners happy. I get it my dogs make me happy too....just want to find out how to make them my service dog. would love to cruise with them.

 

Do you have a disability? Do your dogs do anything that helps to mitigate this disability? If so, you might very well have a service dog.

 

We always want service dogs to be "seeing eye dogs", but those dogs are incredibly special and AMAZING. They are trained from puppyhood. That's just NOT what the majority of service dogs are.

 

 

 

Service dogs deal with more than just blindness. A service dog is any dog that's trained to mitigate a life-altering disability. This can be blindness, yes, but it can also be mobility issues, hearing problems, PTSD, severe diabetes, seizures, severe migraines, and so on.

...

* Hint: The ADA DOES NOT REQUIRE CERTIFICATION. This would be an unreasonable hindrance for disabled people who can't afford or acquire certification (unless you want to pay for it with your taxes?) so all those fake places online that offer certification? They're scams. Says so right here: http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html#cert

 

I loved everything you said. Especially the bits I left quoted.

 

 

 

 

You can just buy and fake this paperwork in the internet. As in the US officials e.g. from ships and airlines are not allowed to ask what specific issue the person with the dog has due to discrimination law you can benefit from it without really needing a service dog.

 

You don't need paperwork.

 

And the law allows people to ask what the dog has been trained to do. ..."staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform?"

 

That's the important part, after all.

 

 

 

 

Our youngest puppy (just over 2 yrs old) is very aware when I have a kidney stone or my blood sugar is off or even if I am sick.....

 

I'm a big girl and know what I should and shouldn't eat, what I feel like when my sugars are too high or too low etc etc ....

 

I agree with what others have said about a 'service dog'. They are well trained and sit at the owners feet, so not walk around and lick people and do not eat from the table!!

 

I met a family a few month back whose son is a disabled vet with severe PTSD. He also has diabetes. The dogs have come to get his parents *while the young man is sleeping deeply* to let them know that his blood glucose level has dropped terrifyingly low. This young man would likely die in his sleep without the dogs' help.

 

I have recently learned that diabetes is a progressive disease. I hope you become more open to letting your awesome dog closer to you if your disease progresses to the point where you might have to worry about that.

 

And no, not all service dogs are trained to that degree. Is your puppy trained like that at this point? You've run across a dog that helps you naturally; it IS a service dog. Neat, huh?

 

 

 

I thought she had gone to get something to clear up but no they both walked away. A couple of minutes later a crew member came and wiped up the wee and squirted what I assume to be disinfectant on the deck.

 

So...she went to get someONE to help clean it up. You wanted her to do the cleaning, but I doubt an employee on a cruise line would let anyone actually do that.

 

My son once threw up while in a grocery store. All over me and it hit the floor. There were two adults, so one went off to get an employee. Neither of us was going to clean it up ourselves; if we were at home, then yes, but while at a store, no.

 

 

 

 

My question on this subject is, what about people like me who are allergic to dogs? ....Not to mention seeing people putting their fingers in the dogs mouth, then put it in their mouths. I don't care how clean a dogs mouth is, this sickens me when I see it.

 

I'm allergic to many animals, too.

 

IMO someone's disability trumps my allergies.

 

When on earth have you EVER seen that? I have been around dogs my whole life, I used to live with dogs as a kid, many of my friends have dogs...and I have literally never seen such a thing. Why not say something if you have friends who do that?

 

 

 

As to why there is no certification required, it is one of our crazy American "feel good" and "don't offend anyone" laws, because having to register or certify a service animal would identify and make public a person's disability.

 

So you're happy forcing someone who already has a disability to pay more money for such registration and certification?

 

I'm not happy to do that. I want to make things easier for those with disabilities.

 

 

(multi-quote failed on me at this point)

 

I was on Enchantment this past week and there was a dog onboard. Don't even get me started on this one... The owner left it in it's room most of the time. We'd hear it bark when we'd walk by the room. The owner was always busy sunning herself and drinking by the pool. I don't know how she even passed it off as a service dog when she never had it with her but a few times...

 

It infuriates me because there are people who legitimately have & need service dogs. These entitled people who buy fake vests online and tell everyone their dog is a service dog, just so they don't have to leave fluffy home. GRRRR.

 

 

I lived above first one, then TWO, pitbulls who were supposed service animals. They helped with the owner's seizures. Alas, she never, not once, took the dogs with her when she left the apartment. She did leave them at home with boyfriend du jour and her 4 year old. The 4 year old would randomly open the door with the dog(s) next to her. I was *terrified* of these dogs. The female dog trapped DH in his car TWO TIMES when he was coming home from work as the random boyfriend let the dog out. Boyfriend would stand on the 2nd floor balcony while the dog was let out (nope, he didn't clean up after her). DH is 300+ lbs and he was not going to get out of his car with that dog standing there.

 

Because of this situation I decided to learn about service animals.

 

And even though we ended up having to move to get away from the situation (3 years of helping apartment management document it was enough) and it all negatively impacted our lives...I came out of it still NOT wanting to negatively impact the lives of actually disabled people.

 

 

 

I know of 3 Pinnacles who bring their " service dogs" and I would bet my last dollar, they are not legally certified.

 

Of course they aren't, since there is no such thing.

 

 

Luckily my allergy is just eyes and skin, but what would the reaction be if someone's allergy was an asthma attack?

 

That could be me. I would use my inhalers.

 

It's not the cat's fault my body's system thinks the world is made of poison. That's MY fault. The airline isn't responsible for me. I'm responsible for me.

 

 

 

Truly trained service animals will never be the real problem, but it will be all those fake ones, that make it tougher for those that seriously need their service animal.

 

Only when the people who WANT it to be harder cause that to happen. If everyone felt like me it wouldn't become harder on those that need service animals. Change starts with OUR attitudes.

 

 

 

We have yet to see a "true" service dog on any ship. A true service dog cost's thousand of dollars and actually delivers a service to a person who has a genuine disability.

 

You are confusing a Seeing Eye Dog with other service animals. The dogs I mentioned earlier that have saved the life of their owners' grown son many times, were BORN with this instinct. Those dogs weren't trained to lead a blind person; they could just sense that there was a problem, and they naturally alerted their people.

 

 

If you're not blind or deaf or crippled in some manner then why do you need an animal to accompany you on a cruise?

 

It's REALLY unfortunate that you're not reading the replies here. I'm just beyond disturbed by your response.

[mollyeilis]

We just went through some ADA training video's where I work....and we were instructed to ask 'nothing' about the potential need that the dog provided.....just help the customer in any way we could to expedite their time in our business. We have people walking into our business that clearly are bringing dogs, who are not service dogs and the company is afraid to do anything about it, even when the dog bothers others in our building. But as you say, the fear of litigation.

 

And that is your company's CHOICE.

 

From previous discussions like this, I have learned that there has not yet been a successful lawsuit against a company that questions, sends a disruptive service dog out, etc. So your company is being silly. This isn't the fault of "fake" service dogs. This is the fault of the place you work.

 

 

 

On one cruise there was a lap service dog. The dog was trained to sniff out sesame oil. The owner had a deadly allergy. Another cruise a small dog was able to tell when the owners blood pressure was elevated. I don't judge. They are there because the cruise line approved them.

 

That is just SO cool.

 

 

 

A true service dog is trained to incredibly hold their bodily needs until they hear a command to take care of their business.

 

And a 'true service dog' is properly trained to behave incredibly well in unfamiliar surroundings and to take care of their personal 'business' only when commanded properly to do so, a remarkable skill.

 

Again, confusing Seeing Eye Dogs with other service dogs.

 

 

 

I don't think they were attempting to use the word "crippled" in a demeaning manner. That is what people with various disabilities or handicaps were called years ago. Also, not everyone is quite so sensitive. So, again, I don't believe that they were trying to be rude - they are probably like me - and don't buy into "politically correct."

 

Doesn't matter what he or you think about the word. It matters to those he's describing. It has nothing to do with being PC, but being kind and sensitive. That word hasn't been used to describe people in *decades*. There's almost no reason for that poster or you to be using it.

 

 

 

There is no doubt the woman on the cruise didn't want to kennel her dog, so she kept telling people how she has a certificate for her dog proving he is a service dog. She lives in FL and there is no doubt the certificate was purchased online and was a fake.

 

But there is no such thing. Why not say that to her?

 

 

 

Just another question, do cruise lines limit the amount of dogs they allow on board, say a total of three per ship on safety grounds?

 

Don't you think that would be incredibly discriminatory, and just plain rotten, against the fourth disabled cruiser who needs their service animal? I think that would be awful.

 

 

 

Maybe I'll make up an anxiety issue and get service dog excuses for my two pugs.

 

From the previous response detailing all that's needed to get a dog onto the cruise, it seems like a HUGE pain. Seems to me that someone who is willing to do all that might actually need that dog.

 

 

 

True service animals will never be found on chairs or table tops eating food from the table

 

Paulette, come on. You keep on describing something that's actually up to the OWNER. If an owner of a dog that can sense seizures lets that dog eat from a plate on the table, that doesn't make that dog a "not real" service dog.

 

 

 

Sometimes the older generation (baby boomers and up) use words that they were raised with and no disrespect is meant at all. My mother who just passed in January called herself a cripple and she was a fine classy woman.

 

 

OK, first, describing yourSELF is a million times different than describing others or making generalizations. My husband and his mom have absolutely NO issue with "Oriental". My MIL describes herself as that, because that's what Asians were called for a long time. If DH feels like describing himself like that, well, OK, but once he starts describing others in that way (when they may or may not be OK with it) it's a problem.

 

 

But in describing others, people need to change with the times.

 

My MIL is a racist (even against her OWN people b/c she's been gone from that country for 45 years) jerk. She has used horrid language about all sorts of people. I don't CARE that she was raised using those words. They are rude.

 

I knew a southern belle who used the N in a lovely high class accent. Didn't matter. It was HORRIBLE. She wasn't classy *at all* once she used that word. The word negated everything else about her.

 

I have two friends who still use the R word. We are 46 years old and that word hasn't been used, other than in medical terms (to describe things like growth), since we graduated from high school. There is truly no excuse for my friends to still be using it. They also use "gay" to describe things they they are "stupid". The rest of us changed after the 80s. They are choosing not to change. When they use those words, they are anything but classy.

[A2Mich]

It has nothing to do with being pc and everything to do with respect. Calling someone with a disability a cripple is just rude. You don't call people with Down syndrome the r word for the same reason. It sounds terrible and it's disrespectful. Whether it was used years ago or not doesn't make it better.

 

Sorry, but it has absolutely everything to do with being PC. There is a sizable portion of people who take offense to nearly everything, whether any offense was actually intended or not. There is also a sizable portion of the population who simply say things as they see them, and that's simply how they were raised. My father in law was most definitely one of those people who would say EXACTLY what was on his mind - if people felt offended or disrespected, well, it sucked to be them. Fact is, people are all different, and just as you may feel the word "cripple" is disrespectful, what about the word "handicapped?" Different strokes for different folks - we can also choose to be offended or not over everything in life. I personally choose to not get offended by much at all. Life is too short to sweat the little stuff...

[A2Mich]

A2Mich -- you may not buy into the 'politically correct' part of the issue, but society has come a long way in how it refers to people who for whatever reason are in some way different or challenged. It has a great deal to do with respect both given and perceived.

 

My parents (clearly from a generation where some words may have been commonly used) often used labels that I never wanted my children to hear.....and I told them enough times, not to use those terms....eventually they stopped, at least in the presence of me and my children -- I might not have been able to change how they spoke at other times.

 

Using the excuse "not everyone is quite so sensitive" is nonsense, it is just a cover up for someone else's poor behavior.

 

And that is your opinion to which you are entitled, and which I respect, but I am not of that same school of thought. While you certainly have the right to feel the way you do, it is not up to you to determine proper etiquette and verbage. That said, while I wouldn't personally call someone a "cripple," I can certainly see how some people may and still not mean any disrespect by it. After all, they are simply words, and we can choose to be offended or not. I think that for those who get so hung up on respect and are offended or insulted by everything they don't like, that there are truly deeper underlying issues at play.

 

At any rate, I have also seen the abuse of policy by owners (or would that be "custodians of") emotional support animals. I also don't have a problem with those who have true service animals that perform a specific duty(ies) for their master , but the abuse by those unwilling to leave Fifi for the week is absurd. I also think that people who cannot be emotionally separated from their PETS need to have alternative vacation plans where they are not in a self contained environment and subject others to their PETS. Again, true service animals are another story.

[A2Mich]

And that is your company's CHOICE.

 

From previous discussions like this, I have learned that there has not yet been a successful lawsuit against a company that questions, sends a disruptive service dog out, etc. So your company is being silly. This isn't the fault of "fake" service dogs. This is the fault of the place you work.

 

 

 

 

 

That is just SO cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, confusing Seeing Eye Dogs with other service dogs.

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't matter what he or you think about the word. It matters to those he's describing. It has nothing to do with being PC, but being kind and sensitive. That word hasn't been used to describe people in *decades*. There's almost no reason for that poster or you to be using it.

 

 

 

 

 

But there is no such thing. Why not say that to her?

 

 

 

 

 

Don't you think that would be incredibly discriminatory, and just plain rotten, against the fourth disabled cruiser who needs their service animal? I think that would be awful.

 

 

 

 

 

From the previous response detailing all that's needed to get a dog onto the cruise, it seems like a HUGE pain. Seems to me that someone who is willing to do all that might actually need that dog.

 

 

 

 

 

Paulette, come on. You keep on describing something that's actually up to the OWNER. If an owner of a dog that can sense seizures lets that dog eat from a plate on the table, that doesn't make that dog a "not real" service dog.

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, first, describing yourSELF is a million times different than describing others or making generalizations. My husband and his mom have absolutely NO issue with "Oriental". My MIL describes herself as that, because that's what Asians were called for a long time. If DH feels like describing himself like that, well, OK, but once he starts describing others in that way (when they may or may not be OK with it) it's a problem.

 

 

But in describing others, people need to change with the times.

 

My MIL is a racist (even against her OWN people b/c she's been gone from that country for 45 years) jerk. She has used horrid language about all sorts of people. I don't CARE that she was raised using those words. They are rude.

 

I knew a southern belle who used the N in a lovely high class accent. Didn't matter. It was HORRIBLE. She wasn't classy *at all* once she used that word. The word negated everything else about her.

 

I have two friends who still use the R word. We are 46 years old and that word hasn't been used, other than in medical terms (to describe things like growth), since we graduated from high school. There is truly no excuse for my friends to still be using it. They also use "gay" to describe things they they are "stupid". The rest of us changed after the 80s. They are choosing not to change. When they use those words, they are anything but classy.

 

 

I'm not even going to dissect this, but will say that I agree with you on some points, and disagree with you on others. I will say that I disagree with others having to "change with the times" so as to not offend others. Maybe some people need to not be so sensitive to so much in their own lives????

 

I do agree that the use of any racial epithets is in poor taste, but bottom line, I don't get offended over the mere use of a word, rather it is the INTENTION that makes a difference. Not everyone always has the best choices in vocabulary, nor is everyone necessarily concerned with not offending people by walking on pins and needles. Many people have become so preoccupied with labels and worried about offending others, and it's actually rather sad.

 

Just two decades ago, the word "handicapped" was very common, but apparently some people were upset by it, and are now trying to force us to use the word "disabled." Bottom line is that it's all semantics. We as a society have chosen to attach various stigmas to various words and quite honestly, it's getting ridiculous anymore. Intent is what matters most in my opinion.