Navigator a disappointment- dogs & other issues

[makiramarlena]

According to ADA (and it's not clear whether a ship that is not US flagged is obligated by law to follow ADA), a business CANNOT require a doctor's note, certification, qualifications, training documentation, or ANYTHING to identify a service dog other than the owner's declaration that the dog assists them with a disability and the task the dog performs (although the business cannot ask that the dog demonstrate the task.)

 

An emotional support animal (the owner merely requires the animal's presence, it doesn't perform a task) might be required to have a prescription or a doctor's note and this is usually for housing and airlines. Emotional support animals are not covered under ADA. There are separate US laws and regulations regarding the presence of emotional support animals in housing and on passenger airlines. Not sure what law refers to ships, especially those not US flagged.

 

According to ADA, the only animals that qualify as service animals are dogs and, in some cases, miniature horses. The law was amended a few years ago to state this; prior to the amendment there were folks showing up with service cats, rats, goats, tarantulas, snakes, fish in a bowl, pigs, turkeys, alpacas, you name it. Other species may qualify as emotional support animals with documentation. Of course you can also purchase such documentation off the Internet for a price.

 

There was a New Yorker article where the author purchased one of these documents and went around the city accompanied by various animals that she borrowed from friends and farms. She got in pretty much anywhere she wanted to accompanied by an emotional support pig, cat, turkey, and alpaca. She was asked to leave a restaurant with a snake, after having taken it into stores.

 

Not long ago the news had some stuff about someone who was permitted to take a live turkey onto an airplane as an emotional support animal. The turkey sat in the seat next to its owner.

[tlatrice]

The next person who sits at that table or on that chair could be highly allergic to dander that is carried by a dog and have unnecessary medical issues due to improper table etiquette.

 

I am one of those who is very allergic to animals. I can often tell if a person has an animal at home within 30 seconds of being around them. It sucks really, because it can happen at the most inopportune moments. I try to always get aisle seats in theaters and churches just in case I sit near someone who has pets and get sneezy/itchy/scratchy.

 

My supervisor got a new cat about a year ago. He'd step into my office for 30 seconds and I'd sneeze for 30 minutes after he'd left. I FINALLY built up an immunity to his cat, but it took months.

 

At a school function for my son a couple sat across the table from me. Immediately my eyes started to water and I started sneezing. I had to leave the cafeteria. I texted my son's father saying "I think those people must have pets. I'm fine out here." A few minutes later he texts me back "5 dogs and 3 cats". We had to move away from them.

 

So far, my allergic reactions don't trigger my asthma, but my eyes water, my nose and throat itches, I sneeze multiple times, my face and neck itch like crazy and my temperature spikes. It's not pleasant.

 

I hope they can do something about this.

[Fouremco]

Because their boss is the one responsible for the problem. Let him deal with their complaints.

Most illogical. The only people who will suffer are the waitstaff.

[createcolorfun]

from my understanding of service dogs, they should not be petted or allowed to lick anyone because they are the service dog for that owner. A true person with a service dog should tell others not to acknowledge the service dog unless the person is in distress. We just got off liberty and there was a service dog, did not bother anyone. But previous to the last day, we were at dinner and the owner was outside walking the dog (i assumed he was taking him to let the dog go to the "doggie area to do his duty") and the poor dog was limping, don't know what had happened, the dog wasn't like that when i saw him the first day of the cruise. Makes you wonder if the dog when on an excursion and was injured some how. Anyways, i think they should be allowed if they are truly a service dog to the owner...

[makiramarlena]

a SERVICE dog should not be:

 

off leash

away from the disabled person

cared for by staff

left alone in a hotel room or ship cabin

sitting on furniture (laps maybe, depending on the service the dog provides)

fed at the table

approaching other people to be petted unless the handler is asked and allows it

acting aggressively toward other persons or animals

relieving itself in public areas

 

Service animals can be dressed in clothes or costumes, transported in strollers or baby carriages, and still be service animals.

 

In the case of service dogs running loose or eating at the table, the business probably won't enforce that. They don't want to be accused of going after a disabled person. Maybe if the dog actually bites somebody.

 

Apparently the need for a service animal will trump allergies. If an allergic person is on a plane with a service (or emotional support) animal, if they can't be on the same plane as the animal, it's up to them to find another flight. The airline will generally assist them in being seated away from the animal (if they can remain on the same plane).

Edited May 23, 2016 by makiramarlena

[johnjen]

In ref to DOGS on board - I think the cruise industry needs to review this sudden "explosion" of these so-called "service dogs" because I think the category has become a point of abuses and excuses. Now it's "I have anxiety so I need my dog with me at all times including on a cruise ship" excuse. It's really getting old AND unfair to dog owners who would love to bring their dogs along for the ride. Maybe I'll make up an anxiety issue and get service dog excuses for my two pugs.

[Ocean Boy]

In ref to DOGS on board - I think the cruise industry needs to review this sudden "explosion" of these so-called "service dogs" because I think the category has become a point of abuses and excuses. Now it's "I have anxiety so I need my dog with me at all times including on a cruise ship" excuse. It's really getting old AND unfair to dog owners who would love to bring their dogs along for the ride. Maybe I'll make up an anxiety issue and get service dog excuses for my two pugs.

 

I'd have more anxiety having the dog along for the week. Hmmm, maybe I should re-think the wife and kids, too.:p

[chengkp75]

According to ADA (and it's not clear whether a ship that is not US flagged is obligated by law to follow ADA). Not sure what law refers to ships, especially those not US flagged.

 

 

Ships that embark passengers in the US (not just make port calls there), regardless of flag, are required to meet certain aspects of the ADA, based on the US Supreme Court ruling that I mentioned earlier, Specter v. NCL. As I said in my previous post concerning this, "The court specifically exempted the ships' "internal policies and procedures" from compliance." This is how RCI has formulated a "code of behavior" for service animals that probably would not be allowed in the US.

[johnjen]

I'd have more anxiety having the dog along for the week. Hmmm, maybe I should re-think the wife and kids, too.:p

 

We have two pugs - they'd be peeing everywhere and I'd be concerned with that. The anxiety alone, bringing them along - never would!

[Charger2008]

I would also have spoken up. Service animals don't do things like sit in their owner's lap and eat from the table at a restaurant. I think it's a shame that the selfish and self centered are passing pets off as service animals. It makes things more difficult for people who have a genuine need for a service animal. Likewise, if my cabin was near someone who left their "service" dog there alone and barking all day I would go to Guest Services and be persistent until something was done. I'm all for accommodations for those who truly need them, but I also have rights and paid good money for my vacation. If the people stretching the truth and violating ship policy are negatively impacting my enjoyment you better believe I will say something!

 

Even with true service animals, I think there is probably a limit to how many a ship can accommodate at one time before the animals become a liability from a sanitation/exercise/space perspective. People bringing pets along could have the same effect on a person with a true need as a physically able person booking an accessible cabin...they're taking a "spot" from someone who legitimately needs it.

 

 

 

 

I'll have to try putting my cat allergy on my next reservation. I had a REALLY bad experience with one next to me on a United flight in November. The flight attendant couldn't or wouldn't attempt to reseat me. My eyes almost immediately swelled up, and things got progressively worse during the flight when the passenger put the carrier in her lap and began stroking the yowling beast!:eek:

 

Thank goodness it was a short flight. I think the whole plane was ready to strangle the owner by the time we landed. She didn't help matters by not apologizing and refusing to leave the cat under the seat. I just don't understand why I could get arrested for consuming a peanut on a plane, but it's OK for people to bring non-service animals into the cabin. Luckily my allergy is just eyes and skin, but what would the reaction be if someone's allergy was an asthma attack?

 

An animal does not have to be a service animal to be in the cabin, you DO have to pay extra and there is a limit on how many animals can be in the cabin on each flight.

[Charger2008]

I am one of those who is very allergic to animals. I can often tell if a person has an animal at home within 30 seconds of being around them. It sucks really, because it can happen at the most inopportune moments. I try to always get aisle seats in theaters and churches just in case I sit near someone who has pets and get sneezy/itchy/scratchy.

 

My supervisor got a new cat about a year ago. He'd step into my office for 30 seconds and I'd sneeze for 30 minutes after he'd left. I FINALLY built up an immunity to his cat, but it took months.

 

At a school function for my son a couple sat across the table from me. Immediately my eyes started to water and I started sneezing. I had to leave the cafeteria. I texted my son's father saying "I think those people must have pets. I'm fine out here." A few minutes later he texts me back "5 dogs and 3 cats". We had to move away from them.

 

So far, my allergic reactions don't trigger my asthma, but my eyes water, my nose and throat itches, I sneeze multiple times, my face and neck itch like crazy and my temperature spikes. It's not pleasant.

 

I hope they can do something about this.

 

That happens to a friend of mine. He cannot sit next to me on the bus into work because of his allergies and I can be wearing a suit/dress straight from the cleaners, just out of the bag but he still has a very bad allergic reaction. We always make sure to tell any appliance repair person coming over that we have pets and if they have allergies, they might want to send someone else. Poor dishwasher repair guy had it bad, we thought he was going to die and even told him "please send someone else" but he finished the job wheezing and sneezing :)

[tserface]

I think RCI has to pay the waitstaff regardless of the gratuities collected (a minimum amount) so this would be a logical way to protest. I think it's odd that people with some disabilities are respected and others with others (like sinus problems) are not.

 

I think if someone can afford to go on a cruise, they can afford to get a qualifying document from a doctor to bring their animal on the cruise. In other aspects of life that may not be true, but certainly people cruising have at least the means for that simple step.

 

Tom

 

Most illogical. The only people who will suffer are the waitstaff.

[critterchick]

Can you clarify... are you served the 4 glasses (depending on the pour roughly 16- 22 oz - almost a full bottle) or has there been some sort of deal made to give you a whole bottle?

 

Thanks.

 

M

 

We have had the same offer - use both BOGO coupons and get a full bottle. We have also been given discounts on wine flights. This, coupled with recent sky-high prices we've seen on wines makes me think that sales are way down.

 

We have yet to see a "true" service dog on any ship. A true service dog cost's thousand of dollars and actually delivers a service to a person who has a genuine disability. Every dog we have ever seen on a cruise is a very poor substitute for a Teddy Bear for a passenger who obviously has emotional problems. Have no idea why RCI feels compelled to irritate 3,500 passengers to accommodate 1 or 2 wackos, but we wish Miami would come to their senses and stop this nonsense. We are SICK OF IT!!!!!!!!!!

 

We have seen quite a few, including a group of 19 service dogs onboard Mariner in 2010. They were all very well-behaved and all but one or two were clearly working when we saw them. They had a break every evening in one of the conference rooms where they could be dogs, romp and play. We heard about it and my friend and I attended. It was a lot of fun.

[makiramarlena]

An emotional support or therapy pet is NOT a service animal.

 

Say you are a business and you have a customer come in with a dog, they say it's a service dog. They are holding it on their lap, feeding it from the table and letting it approach other customers for petting. How do you get them out?

 

You can't state that the dog isn't a service dog. There isn't any way to prove it isn't once the owner has represented to you that it is. You can't ask for proof that the owner is disabled. You can't ask for service dog certification. They aren't required to have any.

 

The only way to get the dog out is based on the behavior of the dog (not that of the owner). If it is "disruptive" or "not housebroken" you can have the dog removed (but not the owner - the owner must be allowed to return without the dog.) If the critter bites somebody, barks continuously, or freaks out in public that's probably it. If it is peeing everywhere you might have a case that it isn't housebroken. Anything else, you have an issue asking the owner to remove the dog. All they have to do is say "NO" or make a scene or go to the press and you have a big problem; they don't even have to sue you.

Edited May 23, 2016 by makiramarlena

[mil76]

We have two pugs - they'd be peeing everywhere and I'd be concerned with that. The anxiety alone, bringing them along - never would!

 

Two Pugs here as well. I'm certain that if I were to get them "certified" as service animals and took them on a cruise, RCL would suddenly decide to enforce the policy and we'd be off the ship at the first port... :eek:

[Ukigirl]

We were on that same cruise and saw this dog many times throughout the day walking around with that same dirty toy!

[cruzeluver]

We have two pugs - they'd be peeing everywhere and I'd be concerned with that. The anxiety alone, bringing them along - never would!

 

 

Two Pugs here as well. I'm certain that if I were to get them "certified" as service animals and took them on a cruise, RCL would suddenly decide to enforce the policy and we'd be off the ship at the first port...

 

Another pug parent here. Love them, but yeah, they would not do well on a cruise.

[Ukigirl]

I was on the same cruise, the first day I was standing next to the gentleman who had the dog and attempted to talk to him, not because I'm nosy but because I love dogs. He was quite rude and just walked away. I did see that dog laying on a pool chair one evening, ummm no.

[grouchomarx]

An emotional support or therapy pet is NOT a service animal.

 

Say you are a business and you have a customer come in with a dog, they say it's a service dog. They are holding it on their lap, feeding it from the table and letting it approach other customers for petting. How do you get them out?

 

You can't state that the dog isn't a service dog. There isn't any way to prove it isn't once the owner has represented to you that it is. You can't ask for proof that the owner is disabled. You can't ask for service dog certification. They aren't required to have any.

 

The only way to get the dog out is based on the behavior of the dog (not that of the owner). If it is "disruptive" or "not housebroken" you can have the dog removed (but not the owner - the owner must be allowed to return without the dog.) If the critter bites somebody, barks continuously, or freaks out in public that's probably it. If it is peeing everywhere you might have a case that it isn't housebroken. Anything else, you have an issue asking the owner to remove the dog. All they have to do is say "NO" or make a scene or go to the press and you have a big problem; they don't even have to sue you.

 

This is from Royal's website:

 

If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc.

[MrsKC08]

A true, trained service or emotional support dog will sit or lay quietly on the floor. Not be at the table. It is truly sad that there are people that take advantage of this.

 

You would be surprised how easy it is to get any dog declared a service dog if you find a vet and a doctor that will petition that they are.

 

We were on a cruise on the Freedom some years back and this lady had a maltese with her all the time. The lady was not very friendly, but the dog was well behaved. I assume she used that dog for emotional support or maybe for diabetes. She wasn't physically handicap, but she was cruising alone.

[Charger2008]

We love our cats (most of the time); however, our vacation is to relax and get AWAY from our cats, work, daily stress, etc. NO WAY would I ever take an animal on a cruise unless I was disabled and needed a guide/service dog - a REAL one, not a "I must have Muffin with me at ALL times" dog :D

[iluvcruzin]

Here's some of the content on RCCL's policy

 

A service dog is defined as "any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability." Service dogs are not considered pets.

 

Evidence that a dog is a service dog is helpful but not required (such as identification cards, other written documentation, presence of harnesses and/or tags or the credible verbal assurance of the person with a disability using the dog).

 

When it comes to someone having a service dog, you can't ask them why but you can ask them what service they have been trained to do (as noted above).

 

RCCL should ask this and by having a policy in which one does not have to provide evidence is encouraging people to bring animals onboard. Many people are allergic to them including myself.

 

I find it a rude and selfish act for someone to bring their pet dogs onboard that hasn't been trained to perform an act for a person with a disability. It sounds like that is what people are doing because they aren't being enforced to provide the proper documents.

[cruisegirl1]

We have had the same offer - use both BOGO coupons and get a full bottle. We have also been given discounts on wine flights. This, coupled with recent sky-high prices we've seen on wines makes me think that sales are way down.

 

 

 

 

We have seen quite a few, including a group of 19 service dogs onboard Mariner in 2010. They were all very well-behaved and all but one or two were clearly working when we saw them. They had a break every evening in one of the conference rooms where they could be dogs, romp and play. We heard about it and my friend and I attended. It was a lot of fun.

 

 

Thank you Jean. I may look into to this wine thing. Heading on Freedom soon. Wonder what their take on the wine coupon will be? Thanks so much

M

[makiramarlena]

You would be surprised how easy it is to get any dog declared a service dog if you find a vet and a doctor that will petition that they are.

 

 

Under ADA you don't even need a doctor or a vet. It is enough that the owner says it's a service dog and can describe a task the dog does to assist them (whether the dog actually is trained to do the task or not, since they can't be required to demonstrate it).

[cello56]

I totally agree that these "Internet" service dogs are an abuse of the system, and it needs to stop.

 

However, one of the sweetest things I ever saw on a cruise happened on Oasis a few years ago. DH and I were sitting in the library overlooking the Royal Promenade. We saw a obviously blind gentleman being shown around the ship by a RCI staff member. He had the service dog - a golden retriever - on a leash in one hand, and his visually impaired wife was holding on to his other arm. So the dog led the man and the man led the wife.

 

Another cruise we saw a group of seven or eight - again obviously visually impaired - passengers board as a group, and each of them had a service dog. Never heard a single bark or ran into anything unprofessional from those wonderful dogs.

 

It burns me up that people would create a fake service dog for their own convenience, whilst others such as these need their dogs in order to be able to cruise.