Poll..... Should kids be allowed in the Haven at all?

[Two Wheels Only]

...the "real" reason the kids are in the haven pool area is simply because the parents dont feel like venturing out into the common areas because they want to get their "Moneys Worth" out of the haven...so they tell the kids to just play in the haven pool..

We enjoyed both the Haven pool AND the water-slides.

 

but for those of you who have kids or even grand kids...question: what do kids do when they are forced to be in an area that they think is boring and not fun??? they make their own fun...by jumping and splashing and being loud...and cannonballs and throwing /splashing water...basically acting like kids.

No, my kids didn't do any of those things. They had fun acting like well-behaved kids. They never disturbed anyone. The other kids that were there behaved in the same way. One thing that every child had in common was that their parent(s) was/were there, not missing in action.

 

...message for said parents: Its okay to pay for the Haven and during daytime hours use a pool OTHER then the haven...it alright..you will not be harassed outside of the velvet rope of the plush opulence of the haven courtyard. its okay..baby steps....give it a try...

We enjoyed both areas. We even went into the main pool.

 

dont force your children to play in a small haven pool where they will be bored in 10 minutes...

They enjoyed the Haven pool, Haven hot-tub, and the Haven bar (virgin drinks, obviously ;))

 

..you can leave an old book on your lounger in the Haven saving your poolside seat...i wont squeal on you.

As long as we're back in less than an hour......never-mind. That's a different topic.

[chloemonkey]

We traveled on the Escape in a Haven Suite this passed July. We didn't have issues with kids on this trip. I think the problem is that too many people forget to respect other people's rights to common spaces. We have traveled many countries and 10 different cruises with our kids since they were toddlers. They are now 15 and 17. It's a matter of common cortesy and not an age thing.

On our July cruise the ship had a curfew for all under 18. My kids stayed out until the last possible minute, but I can guarantee that if they were up to no good, they would have been sitting back in the room!

The Haven should not be an adult only space. Because even then you can not guarantee adult behavior either.

 

Not at ALL what we experienced on 7/31/16 and 8/6/16 sailings! MANY times we had children running up and down the halls stomping, yelling and banging on doors in the Haven.

 

Also, we always leave the casino really LATE and on the 14 nights that we were onboard, there were 3 occasions where the security guards were stopping young teens sayng "this is the 3rd. time that I have warned you! What is your stateroom number?" only to have the teens respond "I don't remember...." And as he tried to escort ONE of the boys onto the elevator.....two of the girls that were part of the group ran off! The security guard was caught offguard....told the boy to GO TO HIS STATEROOM and then exited the elevator to try to locate the girls....

 

Similar experience the other two times. So I do not buy the idea that Security could and WOULD handle young children that were NOT being supervised by their parents.....as we saw it firsthand. And this was around the hours of 3:00 to 3:30 am!

 

I understand that you believe that IF your children were misbehaving that Security would step in....but after seeing what they go through, I would disagree. Glad that you take responsibility for your kids though!

[AdoraBelle]

Yeah, expecting the ship's crew to parent doesn't seem like a good answer.

[hladygirl]

On the dawn a few years ago in July there were teens and tweens everywhere with beers in there hands, running and knocking into people and hanging out in hallways being very obnoxious. I responded to someone on cruise critic commenting on how they book their teens in an inside room not even near them because they are so well behaved angels and can be trusted. I commented that their children might be the ones roaming the halls at 3 am banging on doors etc. boy did I get flamed for that comment. But really, an unsupervised child on a ship may run wild just because they know they can.

[suesings]

Also, we always leave the casino really LATE and on the 14 nights that we were onboard, there were 3 occasions where the security guards were stopping young teens sayng "this is the 3rd. time that I have warned you! What is your stateroom number?" only to have the teens respond "I don't remember...." And as he tried to escort ONE of the boys onto the elevator.....two of the girls that were part of the group ran off! The security guard was caught offguard....told the boy to GO TO HIS STATEROOM and then exited the elevator to try to locate the girls....

 

That is crazy. My two teen daughters will NOT be running around the ship at 3:00 AM with or without boys. Those are obviously parents looking to be young grandparents..... ;)

[dexddd]

Umm really? are you saying I am lying????? EXCUSE ME Have you ever been to Bermuda ? IF so you would KNOW that ships ARE NOT allowed to discharge anything including hot tubs water .. so YES they were closed untill we were out of Bermuda water, then cleaned and disinfected.

 

The Dawn also had an "incident" a couple weeks back but it was in the main pool. It was closed the whole time they were in Bermuda. That would really stink to have a main (really only pool in the case of the Dawn) out of action that long. They took out the little dipping pool the other side of the stage so the only other pool would be the little kids pool on the back.

[sctexan]

SO..HERE IS THE RUB...the "real" reason the kids are in the haven pool area is simply because the parents dont feel like venturing out into the common areas

 

I love that you think you just distilled the reason that EVERY family doesn't use the family pool outside of The Haven. You must be fun at parties.

 

Perhaps you should tell that to my 10 year old who after walking past the super loud and super crowded kids pool area said "I'm so glad we have The Haven pool." He's like his parents and doesn't like loud or crowded. We tried to get him to go to the kids' pool and he wasn't having any of it.

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[April42749]

The real issue is with NCL.

 

Marketing 101- pick your target group

 

They market The Haven to "affluent" people who want a sanctuary to "get away" from it all.

 

They market The Haven to "families" who want a safe haven for their kids.

 

In such a confined area just about any kid would get bored (what kid wants to go swimming in a bath tub, not splash the water and have to keep his voice down?).

 

Based on all I read, I would avoid The Haven because, I really don't want kids running and screaming around me. I'd rather get a spa pass, and that would be my Haven.

 

IMHO, the way things are, NCL should just market this to families and sell it as "an exclusive family area".

[richstowe]

The real issue is with NCL.

 

Marketing 101- pick your target group

 

They market The Haven to "affluent" people who want a sanctuary to "get away" from it all.

 

They market The Haven to "families" who want a safe haven for their kids.

 

In such a confined area just about any kid would get bored (what kid wants to go swimming in a bath tub, not splash the water and have to keep his voice down?).

 

Based on all I read, I would avoid The Haven because, I really don't want kids running and screaming around me. I'd rather get a spa pass, and that would be my Haven.

 

IMHO, the way things are, NCL should just market this to families and sell it as "an exclusive family area".

Great point .

 

Sorry takeadip , this may be an even better post . :p

But yours was good too plus managed to ruffle more feathers . ;)

[takeadip]

I was tempted to be after the "last word".

 

I can get even for bad behavior from anyone of any age. I will sing. It's not pretty.

 

Just kidding of course.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

HAHA i was with you on the Carnival Ecstacy...your singing was anything but!!! joking...my ears are still ringing..

[takeadip]

Seriously? No. Im not taking my small children to the main pool unless someone holds a gun to my head. They are too old for the toddler pool, but they can't touch the bottom of the main family pool, one of them can't swim (is in lessons), and there tend to be large, inattentive teenagers jumping in the kids pool on the pool deck - on top of other smaller kids (happened to my then 3 yo in 2015 on the Jewel, and was the #1 reason I booked Haven in the Jade.)

 

Additionally, there is no place to stand or sit to supervise more than 1 kid at at time, and I cannot get a drink or snacks without leaving the pool area (having to fish them out of the pool, then return to the cabin to put on dry clothes, etc so that we can get those things).

 

That is WHY I book the Haven, so they can swim safely, and I don't have to haul them all over the ship if someone gets hungry.

 

That being said, if they yell/scream or splash water out of the pool in the Haven, they will be reprimanded and removed (as needed). Once they are older, taller, able to stand in a 5 foot deep pool, and are good swimmers, I will be way more open to going to the main pool deck.

 

So no, not an ok suggestion, and the condescension is not appreciated.

 

Eta: we have not been on the mega ships, and have no intention to do so until the kids are more trustworthy and independent.

 

Eta(2): i notice you seem to only have 1 kid. Do you also advise other parents of multiple children on how they handle their kids? If so, stop, since supervising more than 1 is very different from supervising 2+

 

Star...i hear what your saying...we only have as many kids as we feel we can handle... from what you are saying its harder to handle 2 or more kids running in different directions..i cant imagine having to raise 2 or more kids for that matter...at the same time... #firstworldproblem

 

sent from my 2003 LG QUERTY keyboard outdated slide phone.

 

-Mark

[Starflyr3]

The real issue is with NCL.

 

Marketing 101- pick your target group

 

They market The Haven to "affluent" people who want a sanctuary to "get away" from it all.

 

They market The Haven to "families" who want a safe haven for their kids.

 

In such a confined area just about any kid would get bored (what kid wants to go swimming in a bath tub, not splash the water and have to keep his voice down?).

 

Based on all I read, I would avoid The Haven because, I really don't want kids running and screaming around me. I'd rather get a spa pass, and that would be my Haven.

 

IMHO, the way things are, NCL should just market this to families and sell it as "an exclusive family area".

 

It is marketed as an exclusive area for affluent young families and couples. The "affluent", "young" and "family" are not mutually exclusive.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Starflyr3

[takeadip]

Great point .

 

Sorry takeadip , this may be an even better post . :p

But yours was good too plus managed to ruffle more feathers . ;)

 

Richstowe...im glad you agree with my extremely well written response to the OP. The other point you posted is correct...its marketed as a upscale area to give people a different cruise completely. My Inlaws were on the cruise with us (non Haven) and when we invited them up for a suite party we hosted they were blown away...my MIL commented...wow your living space is bigger then our condo in NYC!!!!

[takeadip]

We enjoyed both the Haven pool AND the water-slides.

 

 

No, my kids didn't do any of those things. They had fun acting like well-behaved kids. They never disturbed anyone. The other kids that were there behaved in the same way. One thing that every child had in common was that their parent(s) was/were there, not missing in action.

 

 

We enjoyed both areas. We even went into the main pool.

 

 

They enjoyed the Haven pool, Haven hot-tub, and the Haven bar (virgin drinks, obviously ;))

 

 

As long as we're back in less than an hour......never-mind. That's a different topic.

 

Two Wheels: your responses are spot on...there is no one size fits all (i proved this by buying my sister in law a snuggie a few xmas ago...thing was skin tight!!! ) but yes all your points are valid and people should experience the entire ship when sailing...here is a tip that most people dont know:

(when i have to go Number 2...i do it in a comunity bathroom on the ship...not in my stateroom..our room steward and butler appreciate it and thats just the kind of guy i am..)

 

happy to help.

-Mark

[Starflyr3]

Star...i hear what your saying...we only have as many kids as we feel we can handle... from what you are saying its harder to handle 2 or more kids running in different directions..i cant imagine having to raise 2 or more kids for that matter...at the same time... #firstworldproblem

 

sent from my 2003 LG QUERTY keyboard outdated slide phone.

 

-Mark

 

Heh, they're totally worth it, but it does make going to the pool terrifying! We're also the crazy ones who have 3 - but the oldest is an adult (22) and too busy for vacations. We're getting closer to swimming, at least, though, thanks to our cruise on the Sky - they happily played in the balcony hot tub (that we filled with cool water), as the 4 year old finally got over her fear of putting her face in.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Starflyr3

[April42749]

It is marketed as an exclusive area for affluent young families and couples. The "affluent", "young" and "family" are not mutually exclusive.

 

Oh....there may be an overlap, if the affluent young couple has children, BUT:

 

If I go to an upscale restaurant for a romantic evening, and pay top price....I do not want a child's birthday party at the next table, even if they are "Trump Children"....because they will be singing and running and making all kinds of chaos.

 

So...again, they should market this as a family friendly environment, not a "Haven away from it all" for adults traveling without kids.

[Starflyr3]

Oh....there may be an overlap, if the affluent young couple has children, BUT:

 

If I go to an upscale restaurant for a romantic evening, and pay top price....I do not want a child's birthday party at the next table, even if they are "Trump Children"....because they will be singing and running and making all kinds of chaos.

 

So...again, they should market this as a family friendly environment, not a "Haven away from it all" for adults traveling without kids.

 

That's my point, it's NOT marketed to only adults. Those who infer that are going to be disappointed.

 

See page 3 of this thread. I linked the video of Andy Stuart at the opening of the Haven on Breakaway. He very clearly states that the target demographic is young, affluent couples and families with children.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Starflyr3

[jm485]

Oh....there may be an overlap, if the affluent young couple has children, BUT:

 

If I go to an upscale restaurant for a romantic evening, and pay top price....I do not want a child's birthday party at the next table, even if they are "Trump Children"....because they will be singing and running and making all kinds of chaos.

 

So...again, they should market this as a family friendly environment, not a "Haven away from it all" for adults traveling without kids.

 

I've perceived a bit of marketing schizophrenia at NCL with respect to the Haven. I think some senior execs have talked about wanting it to be a place for affluent families with kids, while other senior execs have talked about trying to make NCL a more "upscale" line. Somewhere along the line, they've blurred their message to the point that it's tough to tell who they are trying to attract, other than people who are willing to spend more money.

 

We're a couple with no kids and we prefer to travel in suites. I don't think we're the target market for the Haven and I don't think it would be a good fit for us. That's OK -- there are plenty of ships in the NCL fleet that have suites that are not part of the Haven. I think they will work for us just fine.

[AdoraBelle]

I mentioned a few pages back that I think it would help a lot if they changed the name to something like Club NCL. Disney-type families are used to the word "Club" being somewhat interchangeable with concierge-level at the WDW resorts, and I bet that's a demographic that would bring NCL a lot of money. (Probably already is, as more and more people are being priced out of DCL.)

 

And the 'adult' cruisers wouldn't expect a quiet 'haven'.

[old nutter]

This whole "Haven" thing stems in many ways from the differences between the initial style "Haven" on the Jewel Class ships and the new much larger area on the mega-ships.

 

The initial Jewel ships Haven matched the name and the perception was that it was a quite haven away from the hustle and bustle of the rest of the ship. The concept worked for the Jewel ships and the Haven was always well booked, maintained a premium over the normal suites and a very much higher margin than the rest of the ship.

 

When the Epic was commissioned with a much larger passenger base, it was decided to ride on the success of the Jewel ships high margin area and make the Haven much bigger than the doubling in passenger numbers really justified , thus making a lot more money. What the suits did not understand then was that the reason the Haven had been successful was that it was small and select. Making it upwards of 10 times bigger than the original Havens totally changed the environment.

 

The Jewel Class Havens are devoid of anything that would entice children to want to spend time there. There is no blaring music, no big splash areas and nowhere near the amount of space for youngsters to run around in. The result was that the children tended to want to spend their time elsewhere, either in the clubs or by the bigger attractions. Not only that, but the Jewel ships are much more traditional cruise ships with much less dramatic attractions such as the plank, climbing frames and water slides, so the whole ship is a much quieter affair all together than the mega-ships.

 

We have sailed in non-Haven NCL ships, two of the Jewels, Epic and Getaway so can make some valid comparisons. Both mega-ships we have sailed on have open Havens with no roof and both of our mega-ship cruises were sailed in poor-ish weather. The Caribbean cruise we went on had quite a lot of rain and was not too warm and the Epic run we went on was to the Canaries in relatively cool weather. Without the roof, the Haven was not the best place for young people to spend lots of time in when there were much warmer and more interesting places to go, so we had few issues.

 

When we were on the Epic, the quiet space for Haven guests was the Posh. Unfortunately for us it was usually as cold up there as it was in the open Haven. I don't recall a similar area being available on the Getaway, so equally there would not be such an arrangement on the Breakaway (or presumably the Escape) either. The point here is that there is an area on the Epic that provides something approaching the Haven of the smaller ships. Maybe that was done because the suits were beginning to realize that in their haste to make more money from the space on the mega-ships they had destroyed the idea that the Haven was indeed no longer a haven.

 

Not that bad behavior is confined to the Breakaway, but it does seem to have more than it's fair share of problems with bad behaving adults and young Haven guests. I do think that whilst the closing roof was a great idea on the smaller ships to keep the Haven area habitable, it creates a completely different environment on the Breakaway because it brings everything inside again and it is a great space for youngsters to have some fun.

 

Far be it for a Brit to make comments about the demographic on the various routes, but the signs we have been getting from reports are that the clientele on the North-South cruises has many people who spend much more time inside away from the weather than their warmer more southerly cousins. I know that in Europe, Mediterranean nationals are much more laid-back than those of us in the Northern European states. If that happens over the pond as well, then the Northern states are likely to be a mix of less tolerant people to go with the added environmental issues on the big roofed Havens, so conflict is almost guaranteed. Without the roof though, sailing around the North Atlantic would not make for a pleasant cruise down to the warm so keeping it open would not be sensible. (As I am sure the Getaway will prove next year going up and down to the Baltic!)

 

The new suits are now in a no-win situation. Clearly, whilst the idea of the Haven is still working pretty well on the smaller ships, the greedy idea (came before FDR by the way) of over-expanding the Haven on the mega-ships is not working well on the bigger ships. I doubt if the suits want to have different company themes for different ships, so if they want to continue to sell the Haven as a premium brand on top of a more select brand overall (certainly FDR's stated aim) something needs to be done to restore the Haven to it's former existence.

 

My suggestion, for what it is worth, would be to use the next update to provide two separate areas for premium passengers (expand partially on the Epic's Posh arrangement across the other mega-ships). One could be the big family area and the other could be a more quiet area. I am sure that a little welding at the stern end of the upper floor to add a permanent roof over the area where the food tables are could provide a quieter Haven upstairs for those who like that kind of peace and quiet. Maybe a hot tub could be added there at the same time?

 

Banning younger passengers is not a solution, but providing areas more appropriate to the needs of all Haven cruisers might enable family groups to exist in an area where they would be comfortable whilst also providing an area for the quieter generation to enjoy the peace and quiet of a restful premium cruise. Perhaps putting an age limit of 16 (NCL definition of minors) would enable families with older young people to enjoy either area depending on their personal wishes.

Edited August 31, 2016 by old nutter
added a bit

[scopewest]

old nutter, thank you for your post. After reading this thread, I was going to not book NCL's Haven, but your comments small vs. large Haven areas is very informative. Now I may start looking at the Jewel class ships if I decide to book the Haven for the first time.

[Starflyr3]

Old nutter - good idea, though I thought that was already a thing on the bigger ships. I know Epic has Posh, and I though the early ability to buy passes to Vibe on the -away classes served the same purpose.

 

Perhaps if they removed the charge for Vibe for Haven passengers?

[3XX1XY]

Well... yes. I mean It's marketed to families. Nothing states otherwise. If you are looking for an adults only atmosphere there are resorts and other cruise lines that cater to that.

[old nutter]

Well... yes. I mean It's marketed to families. Nothing states otherwise.

 

I am sorry, but if you browse the web site that is not strictly true. The sections devoted to families do not show or mention the Haven on any of those pages. Equally, when you go to the section describing the Haven on the web site, none of the images or descriptions mention children or young accompanying adults and the descriptions all seem to express a peaceful and calm adult-like environment. All of the images with people on show adult couples, so no, it is not marketed to families, but is clearly open to them.

 

Obviously, there is nothing to suggest that accompanied young people are not allowed in the Haven, but the Haven is most definitely not specifically aimed at families with youngsters on the NCL web site. In fact about the only bit of the Haven that would seem encourage families with youngsters is the second bedroom, since there can be three single beds in it, one of which, the upper bunk, is most definitely not for adults

[Two Wheels Only]

I am sorry, but if you browse the web site that is not strictly true. The sections devoted to families do not show or mention the Haven on any of those pages. Equally, when you go to the section describing the Haven on the web site, none of the images or descriptions mention children or young accompanying adults and the descriptions all seem to express a peaceful and calm adult-like environment. All of the images with people on show adult couples, so no, it is not marketed to families, but is clearly open to them.

 

 

https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Haven.Luxurious-Benefits2016_1.jpg

 

Luxurious Benefits

 

• Priority when reserving restaurants and entertainment
  
• Exclusive access to The Haven Courtyard area with private pool, sundeck, hot tub and fitness area
  
• Distinctive platinum keycard
  

 

 

 

Obviously, there is nothing to suggest that accompanied young people are not allowed in the Haven, but the Haven is most definitely not specifically aimed at families with youngsters on the NCL web site.

 

See above image from NCL.com