Proposal to Strengthen Cruise Passenger Safety Laws

[time4u2go]

To what ships and passengers would this apply? There's several variables involved:

 

• Whether the ship is U. S.-flagged or flagged in another country.
  
• Whether the cruise starts in the U. S. or not.
  
• Whether the cruise ends in the U. S. or not.
  
• Whether an affected passenger is American or not.
  

Not sure which combinations of these the law would apply to.

[Milwaukee Eight]

I made that comment while we were climbing Dunn's River Falls in Jamaica for the first time years ago.

 

 

 

Exactly. Can you image Dunn River Falls in the US?? We would build a structure where visitors could only view from some distance not to mention the people hired by the Government to watch and insure your safety while egress on said structure and also the people hired to watch over the watchers.

 

Not to mention delays in Ports while our FBI investigates. You think they could conclude their onboard investigation during turnover day???

 

 

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Edited July 14, 2017 by Milwaukee Eight

[bUU]

To what ships and passengers would this apply? There's several variables involved:

 

• Whether the ship is U. S.-flagged or flagged in another country.
  
• Whether the cruise starts in the U. S. or not.
  
• Whether the cruise ends in the U. S. or not.
  
• Whether an affected passenger is American or not.
  

Not sure which combinations of these the law would apply to.

Based on the wording of previous drafts, any ship that embarks or disembarks passengers at US ports. Extraterritorial jurisdiction would allow application even if that is not the case, based instead on transacting the sale of the cruise within US markets, or the cruise line being based in the US.

 

So if you don't like the government protecting passengers in this way, you are welcome to book cruises on foreign-owned cruise lines that do not make port at US ports, and to book your cruises through foreign travel agencies.

[gotta cruise again]

What struck me was this language:

 

Our legislation will ensure that consumers know the risks associated with cruise ship travel before they buy a ticket; and if their rights are violated, this bill will helpensure that they have a place to seek recourse.

 

How will consumers learn of these risks? Will there be a personal phone call, from a knowledgeable person at the cruise line, to each potential passenger, explaining all the risks? Will each travel agent have to list the risks prior to the purchase of the ticket? If a passenger is not aware of the risks and buys a ticket, are they allowed to cancel at any time without penalty, once they learn the risks?

 

From reading the boards, it is evident that there are passengers who don't take the time to do much research prior to buying a ticket. They aren't reading cruise line websites in detail; they may not be using a truly knowledgeable TA; they may be relying on the particular cruise line's phone reps for correct info ( :eek: ); etc.

 

This above isn't stated to diss cruise passengers but to emphasize that the lofty goal of "ensuring passengers know the risks before buying a ticket" is one that, in a lot of cases, will not be realized. There are probably more cruise passengers who show up at the pier without passport or essential identification or necessary documents than there are who are harmed on a cruise ship. So if you can't get a person to bring their ID to embarkation, when that's a requirement to board the ship for their vacation, how will legislation ensure that people are aware of the potential risks associated with cruising PRIOR to buying a ticket?

 

PS: all of the above are rhetorical questions posed only because there are more important issues to be addressed than adding another box to check off as "read" when you are buying a ticket!!

[Milwaukee Eight]

I do wonder if Blumenthal has ever been on a cruise and has any idea what he is talking about.

 

 

And you should wonder. He may say he has Cruise experience but very likely the same tales about his Vietnam experience. A loser...

 

 

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[bUU]

What struck me was this language:

 

Our legislation will ensure that consumers know the risks associated with cruise ship travel before they buy a ticket; and if their rights are violated, this bill will helpensure that they have a place to seek recourse.

 

How will consumers learn of these risks?

I view the "know the risks" part as far less significant than the recourse part. Negligence is part of tort law, and just because the service is offered on a foreign ship and in a foreign place doesn't mean that the service, sold within an American marketplace and utilizing the US banking system to support the transaction, should be immune from the consequences of negligence.

[dreadpirate3]

What struck me was this language:

 

Our legislation will ensure that consumers know the risks associated with cruise ship travel before they buy a ticket; and if their rights are violated, this bill will helpensure that they have a place to seek recourse.

 

How will consumers learn of these risks? Will there be a personal phone call, from a knowledgeable person at the cruise line, to each potential passenger, explaining all the risks? Will each travel agent have to list the risks prior to the purchase of the ticket? If a passenger is not aware of the risks and buys a ticket, are they allowed to cancel at any time without penalty, once they learn the risks?

 

From reading the boards, it is evident that there are passengers who don't take the time to do much research prior to buying a ticket. They aren't reading cruise line websites in detail; they may not be using a truly knowledgeable TA; they may be relying on the particular cruise line's phone reps for correct info ( :eek: ); etc.

 

This above isn't stated to diss cruise passengers but to emphasize that the lofty goal of "ensuring passengers know the risks before buying a ticket" is one that, in a lot of cases, will not be realized. There are probably more cruise passengers who show up at the pier without passport or essential identification or necessary documents than there are who are harmed on a cruise ship. So if you can't get a person to bring their ID to embarkation, when that's a requirement to board the ship for their vacation, how will legislation ensure that people are aware of the potential risks associated with cruising PRIOR to buying a ticket?

 

PS: all of the above are rhetorical questions posed only because there are more important issues to be addressed than adding another box to check off as "read" when you are buying a ticket!!

 

The same number of people who actually read their contracts now. I didn't even have to check anything, my PVP did it. :rolleyes:

[Saab4444]

People do not fall from a ship, they jump. Many people die on cruise ships because they are old and sick. Why should a cruise line be responsible for this and how could they avoid it?

 

 

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[cleophus12]

I think this legislation and the discussion that goes with it have come up because of a couple that died in a stateroom fire on an Amazon river cruise this past week. I saw the story on the news. A power strip in the room caught fire and the two died I believe. No fire alarms went off and it took quite a while for anyone to get into the room to investigate the smoke. By then it was too late.

[Milwaukee Eight]

I think this legislation and the discussion that goes with it have come up because of a couple that died in a stateroom fire on an Amazon river cruise this past week. I saw the story on the news. A power strip in the room caught fire and the two died I believe. No fire alarms went off and it took quite a while for anyone to get into the room to investigate the smoke. By then it was too late.

 

 

 

This event occurred in April 2016. Basically written by lawyers which make up a huge percentage of our lawmakers in Congress. Wants ways for Americans to sue Cruise Lines in International Waters. So more lawyers will benefit.

 

 

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[bUU]

No fire alarms went off and it took quite a while for anyone to get into the room to investigate the smoke. By then it was too late.

Precisely, and these kinds of changes would ensure that purveyors are held accountable for the negligence that they commit in this regard.

[hapster85]

I think this legislation and the discussion that goes with it have come up because of a couple that died in a stateroom fire on an Amazon river cruise this past week. I saw the story on the news. A power strip in the room caught fire and the two died I believe. No fire alarms went off and it took quite a while for anyone to get into the room to investigate the smoke. By then it was too late.

This proposed legislation and discussion started months ago, but the incident you mention, would be further proof to those in favor of it.

[bUU]

This proposed legislation and discussion started months ago, but the incident you mention, would be further proof to those in favor of it.

If I recall correctly, the legislation predates this incident. (One draft of the act was introduced into Congress in 2015.) The problem is long-standing. The default obstruction against tilting the balance more so in favor of passengers generally can only be overcome on the coat-tails of a reminder to the public why such changes are necessary and valuable.

[Milwaukee Eight]

If I recall correctly, the legislation predates this incident. (One draft of the act was introduced into Congress in 2015.) The problem is long-standing. The default obstruction against tilting the balance more so in favor of passengers generally can only be overcome on the coat-tails of a reminder to the public why such changes are necessary and valuable.

 

 

 

So, you think we need the US Government to protect us from ourselves? I understand the risk we take when we board a cruise ship. I understand the risk we take when we take unregulated excursions. If any part of this regulation is passed, it will drive up cruise prices.

 

 

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[bUU]

So, you think we need the US Government to protect us from ourselves?

The legislation would protect passengers from the negligence of cruise line operators. I didn't realize you personally operated a cruise line (a conclusion that stems from the fact that that would be the only way your comment would make syntactical sense). As you are a cruise line operator, yes, I think we little people need to be protected from your negligence.

 

Again, if you want to be free from US government regulations, then feel free to secure the products and services you want abroad, live abroad, transact your purchases abroad, and consume those services abroad. There is no need to feel enslaved to a nation the consumer protections of which you see no value in.

[BecciBoo]

A little common sense goes a long way...but sadly, parents don't teach common sense today.

 

But you can't fix stupid...not even with a bunch of new laws:')

[Milwaukee Eight]

The legislation would protect passengers from the negligence of cruise line operators. I didn't realize you personally operated a cruise line (a conclusion that stems from the fact that that would be the only way your comment would make syntactical sense). As you are a cruise line operator, yes, I think we little people need to be protected from your negligence.

 

in.

 

 

I am proud to be an American and served for our right to debate this. I'm not going anywhere.

 

If one reads the Article, it's an attempt to extend our laws on libel to the High Seas. Currently, US Citizens have the right to file for damages but doesn't provide for pain and suffering.

 

"Currently, the federal Death on the High Seas Act allows family members to file for damages against a ship owner for the death of loved ones at sea. ABC reported the act also means family members can often not obtain judgments for non-pecuniary damages, such as pain and suffering, when a passenger dies in international waters."

 

There is no Park or attraction in the US where you could walk unescorted across the Natural Bridge of Aruba, climb Dunn River Falls, enjoy Maho Beach from close or afar, explore the Island Caves. I remember when I was 16 and as a newly certified diver, we would dive Blue Springs, a 112' cave in Orange City. We parked right next to the hole and just walked in. We didn't need anyone to protect us. We knew our limits. Now, there is a Park Fee, a built bridge structure, entry is in the water about 1/8 of a mile upstream. They prohibit lights for most and limit the divers who may dive the hole beyond light. It has taken much of the fun and enjoyment with it.

 

If you read further in the article you will find it was a prohibited power strip that caught fire. It is all about having the ability to expand our libel laws for the High Seas. The US is mostly Governed by Lawyers.

 

I'll take our cruises and excursions like they are now and hope it stays that way. Regulation, like I said creates Regulators who have Regulatory Agencies to Regulate.

 

 

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[bUU]

A little common sense goes a long way...but sadly, parents don't teach common sense today.

Indeed: They teach abject self-interest, the kind of thing that leads otherwise good people to be negligent in the interest of bolstering their own personal finances.

 

I'll take our cruises and excursions like they are now and hope it stays that way.

I hope that things will change to make operators as liable for what happens while at sea as they are when docked in port.

[DfDinLA]

"Many cruise ships are the size of small towns - butwith few emergency services and no law enforcement, these vessels are more WildWest than Atlantis," said Blumenthal.

In my opinion this is quite an overstatement. Cruise ships are safer (from a crime standpoint) than many American inner cities. I live in Los Angeles so I do have a frame of reference about this.

[bUU]

Degree is a matter of opinion, but the objective reality is not: Aboard cruise ships, there are fewer police officers and police detectives aboard cruise ships, working in the interest of passengers to protect them from malfeasance by the cruise line as compared to what most passengers can expect at home.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Biker19]

Degree is a matter of opinion, but the objective reality is not: Aboard cruise ships, there are fewer police officers and police detectives aboard cruise ships, working in the interest of passengers to protect them from malfeasance by the cruise line as compared to what most passengers can expect at home.

And you know this how?

[bUU]

Publicly available information. Municipal budgets specify how many police officers are deployed on land. None show any police officers deployed aboard ships.

[Biker19]

That's a technicality - there are security officers on the ship that in most cases perform the same function as a town cop. And if you you are on a re-positioning cruise via the middle east, you'll have even more "security".

[bUU]

That's a technicality - there are security officers on the ship that in most cases perform the same function as a town cop. And if you you are on a re-positioning cruise via the middle east, you'll have even more "security".

You clearly didn't read the message to which you replied. Let's try again:

Aboard cruise ships, there are fewer police officers and police detectives aboard cruise ships, working in the interest of passengers to protect them from malfeasance by the cruise line as compared to what most passengers can expect at home.

 

There is no technicality involved here. This is the point: The regulations being discussed, specifically, protect passengers from malfeasance (in the object case, negligence) by the cruise line.

[wolfganghowell]

Oh good grief - police detectives on cruise ships? Sure - there have been "crimes" onboard. But the % of crimes hardly constitutes a police force. If the malfeasance by the cruise line is so rampant, please give up cruising. When you think of the millions of people who cruise, the crime statistics are very low and the safety is very high.