Proposal to Strengthen Cruise Passenger Safety Laws

[Biker19]

Well, then......

 

[John&LaLa]

So, I YOUR OPINION, just who is the "Little guy"?

 

So, who do you propose pays for this additional regulation? We recently traveled DC and saw all the GOVERNMENT building going on. The Government grew more in the last 8 years. You want Government growth? IMHO, we need to decrease GOVERNMENT control over US. We will be just fine.

 

 

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It has decreased. Laura just retired. [emoji33]

 

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[John&LaLa]

Well, then......

 

Didn't even make 100. You know it's bad when novices and know it all's challenge the Cheng

 

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[Biker19]

It has decreased. Laura just retired. [emoji33]

Do they have a hiring freeze?

[Aquahound]

Paul;

 

Couple questions for you, as I know of your CG connections, but not as a lawyer, so you may not know this.

 

It is my understanding that the Passenger Bill of Rights was voluntarily adopted by CLIA when asked by Congress, since Congress knew they had no authority to regulate this. Also, it is my understanding that the some of the provisions of the Passenger Vessel Safety and Security Act only apply to US flag ships, like the requirement for man overboard systems. I could be wrong on this, but that is my understanding.

 

As for the argument about extraterritorial jurisdiction, I don't think that holds water. Again, I'm not a lawyer, and BUU seems to be, but my reading of extraterritorial jurisdiction says that it must be agreed to by both parties (the country claiming jurisdiction outside its boundaries, and the agency governing that area). Since the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), is the recognized agency governing the open seas, any action by the US (which is one of only 4 maritime nations not signatory to the Convention) could be challenged in international court. The US does recognize UNCLOS as a "codification of customary international law".

 

You are correct....in that I don't totally know. The Passenger Bill of Rights was accepted by CLIA and a lot of good did come out of it and the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act. One is that the cruise lines are now reporting crime stats to the FBI and CGIS. I'm sure you've seen this site...

 

https://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg2/cgis/CruiseLine.asp

 

Ref extraterritorial jurisdiction, I'm not sure how that term came up. While I don't agree with everything Blumenthal said, I don't think this qualifies as extraterritorial jurisdiction. These ships are operated out of the US, from companies headquartered in the US and trading in the US. Regulatory jurisdiction already exists, so I don't see the leap to extraterritorial.

 

Don't let bUU get to you. He's a troll. He does this in every thread in which he posts.

[Biker19]

Just when I though this is winding down....

 

[John&LaLa]

BTW, I thought George's bride pushed him over

 

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[tallyho8]

I personally think that cruise ships are the safest place to be, At any given time there are about 1 million people on cruise ships around the world. Compare the amount of crime, deaths or injuries on a cruise ship in one day to the amount in any American city of 1 million people. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the cruise ships had less than 1% of that the city of 1 million had.

[BND]

BTW, I thought George's bride pushed him over

 

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A lot of people think that, but the other theories are a botched robbery. I, personally think she had something to do with it.

[xpcdoojk]

Just some interesting reading here. It's a proposal to strengthen cruise passenger safety laws. It's notable that the Brilliance of the Seas (George Smith) case is still being used as an example. Although I think Blumenthal's claim that cruise ships are "wild west" is a gross exaggeration.

[WASHINGTON, D.C.] - Today, U.S. Senator RichardBlumenthal (D-CT) and U.S. Representative Jim Himes (D-CT) introduced theCruise Passenger Protection Act (CPPA) to strengthen passenger safety on cruiseships. The bicameral legislation was led by Blumenthal and U.S. Senator EdwardJ. Markey (D-MA) in the Senate and U.S. Representatives Doris Matsui (D-CA),Ted Poe (R-TX) and Himes in the House of Representatives.

 

The CPPA would build on the passenger safety measuressigned into law in the 2010 Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act (CVSSA). Thebill strengthens crime reporting and video surveillance requirements, improvesmedical standards, and holds cruise lines responsible for deaths at sea.

 

"Many cruise ships are the size of small towns - butwith few emergency services and no law enforcement, these vessels are more WildWest than Atlantis," said Blumenthal. "And when something goes wrongon a cruise ship, a dream vacation can quickly turn into a nightmare. Our legislationwill ensure that consumers know the risks associated with cruise ship travelbefore they buy a ticket; and if their rights are violated, this bill will helpensure that they have a place to seek recourse."

 

"Cruise ship safety strikes close to home inConnecticut's Fourth District," said Himes. "In 2005, a young manfrom Greenwich - George Smith IV - went missing while on his honeymoon cruisein the Mediterranean Sea. Since George disappeared, his family has foughttirelessly to improve safety on cruise ships and to protect cruise shippassengers. The fight continues today with the Cruise Passenger Protection Act.This bill bolsters current law with tighter crime reporting, expanded videosurveillance equipment and record-keeping requirements, and streamlined trackingand public reporting of alleged crimes on cruise ships. Safety improvementslike these will help prevent more avoidable tragedies."

 

Blumenthal has introduced the Cruise Passenger ProtectionAct in the previous two Congresses. Since the legislation was first introduced,he has also led efforts to ensure the public reporting of cruise line crimestatistics and results of safety checks. In 2015, Blumenthal successfullyamended the Coast Guard Reauthorization Bill to require the Coast Guard issue areport on the implementation of man-overboard technology by cruise lines.Despite its life-saving potential, cruise lines have been slow to implement thetechnology and secretive about their plans for doing so.

 

"With serious safety and health incidents continuingto occur on cruise ships every year, we need to put measures in place toprotect passengers who need medical services or become victims of crime,"said Markey. "I am proud to join my colleagues in supporting federallegislation that puts in places basic protections for the millions of Americanswho take cruises."

 

"Standards for victims' rights should be strongwhether on land or at sea," said Matsui. "The Cruise Vessel Securityand Safety Act made important progress in strengthening protections for passengers,but we have much more work to do. This legislation strengthens existingreporting laws and raises consumer protection standards, so families have thepeace of mind they deserve when they board a cruise ship. I am grateful to thevictims and their families who have come forward and continue to be essentialvoices in our work to improve cruise safety through legislative reform."

 

"When American citizens board a cruise ship, theyexpect a peaceful escape," said Poe. "But the reality is that crimedoes not disappear simply because people are on vacation. Unfortunately,American passengers sometimes go missing or become victims of sexual andphysical assault while sailing the high seas. The passage of the 2010 CruiseVessel Security and Safety Act took the first step in protecting the safety andsecurity of passengers. The Cruise Passenger Protection Act builds upon thisimportant law by implementing stronger requirements to protect victims of crimeand to hold their perpetrators accountable."

 

Specifically, the CPPA would:

.Ensure a cruise vessel owner notifies the FBI withinfour hours of an alleged incident.

.Ensure that if an alleged incident occurs while thevessel is still in a U.S. port, the FBI is notified before that vessel leavesthe port.

.Require vessel owners to also report an alleged offenseto the U.S. Consulate in the next port of call, if the alleged offense is by oragainst a U.S. national.

.Clarify that vessels must have video surveillanceequipment in all passenger common areas, and other areas, where there is noexpectation of privacy.

.Allow individuals access to video surveillance recordsfor civil action purposes.

.Mandate that all video records are kept for 30 daysafter completion of the voyage.

.Direct the Coast Guard to promulgate final standardswithin one year detailing requirements for the retention of video surveillancerecords.

.Require that the internet website of alleged crimes oncruise ships indicate whether the reported crimes were committed againstminors.

.Direct the Department of Transportation to conduct astudy determining the feasibility of having an individual charged with victimsupport services on board each passenger vessel.

.Require integration of technology that can both captureimages and detect when a passenger has fallen overboard.

.Create medical standards requiring that a qualifiedphysician and sufficient medical staff to be present and available forpassengers, crew members receive basic life support training, automateddefibrillators are accessible throughout the ship, and the initial safetybriefing includes important emergency medical and safety information.

.Ensure that should a U.S. passenger die aboard a vessel,his or her next of kin could request the vessel to return the deceased back tothe United States.

.Hold cruise lines responsible for deaths at sea byensuring families of victims are able to pursue fair compensation. This givescruise passengers the same rights as airline passengers.

 

Paul, I knew this was garbage when the first two names in the story were mentioned.

 

Lord help us from those that want to make the world perfect for surely they should at least be sane...

 

JC

[xpcdoojk]

Isn't this the same Blumenthal that was running on his Vietnam record, until he was outed. What a clown.

 

Maybe someone can confirm if the "Smith" case the Medit. itinerary and the rumor of Russian Paxs from Brooklyn that did him in for his casino winnings. Also, security could not find his wife who supposedly was drunk in some hallway. There was a story in Vanity Fair, that this fellow was so drunk and he loved to smoke cigars and was smoking a stogey while sitting on his balcony ledge. How would this law affect the industry if they simply jump!

 

Yes one of about 70 clowns in the Senate. One of the most obvious.

 

JC

[xpcdoojk]

To what ships and passengers would this apply? There's several variables involved:

 

• Whether the ship is U. S.-flagged or flagged in another country.
  
• Whether the cruise starts in the U. S. or not.
  
• Whether the cruise ends in the U. S. or not.
  
• Whether an affected passenger is American or not.
  

Not sure which combinations of these the law would apply to.

These are US Senators. Do you think you people in the UK even begin to be thought about by such "bright lights"? These people are generally elected with a small net worth and retire/die leaving their mistresses with fortunes formerly dreamed of by kings and petty despots.

 

JC

[xpcdoojk]

You can refer me where you like. My reading comprehension is quite advanced. I don't require your assistance. Thanks.

 

My opinion is different than yours. We don't need more regulations. Most of us seem to be quite safe onboard and feel protected from the big scary cruise line.

 

Trust me he would vote for Sydney... what else do you need to know that you are arguing with a wall.... stone wall.

 

JC

[Aquahound]

Paul, I knew this was garbage when the first two names in the story were mentioned.

 

Lord help us from those that want to make the world perfect for surely they should at least be sane...

 

JC

 

I agree. 27 total serious crimes were reported between Jan 1 - March 31. We don't have stats on petit crimes, but I'd hardly call 27 serious crimes (allegations) over a 3 month period from 10 cruise lines the "wild west." I'm not sure what Blumenthal's agenda is, but I can certainly say he's an idiot.

 

These are the 1st quarter stats for 2017:

 

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/mission/safety/278981/cruise-line-incident-report-1-jan-31-mar-2017.pdf

[xpcdoojk]

Just back from groomers.

 

 

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Absolutely lovely for a landshark. They are lovely animals, right up to the point they take your arm off.:eek::cool:

 

JK

 

JC

[xpcdoojk]

You are correct....in that I don't totally know. The Passenger Bill of Rights was accepted by CLIA and a lot of good did come out of it and the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act. One is that the cruise lines are now reporting crime stats to the FBI and CGIS. I'm sure you've seen this site...

 

https://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg2/cgis/CruiseLine.asp

 

Ref extraterritorial jurisdiction, I'm not sure how that term came up. While I don't agree with everything Blumenthal said, I don't think this qualifies as extraterritorial jurisdiction. These ships are operated out of the US, from companies headquartered in the US and trading in the US. Regulatory jurisdiction already exists, so I don't see the leap to extraterritorial.

 

Don't let bUU get to you. He's a troll. He does this in every thread in which he posts.

That was obvious the first time I saw him/her.... which was this thread. I felt like Bicker had returned.

 

Lord bless the pygmies in Africa. That is not funny.

 

JC

[ONECRUISER]

Just back from groomers.

 

 

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Nice. Tell Bella I said, "Woof"

[chengkp75]

You are correct....in that I don't totally know. The Passenger Bill of Rights was accepted by CLIA and a lot of good did come out of it and the Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act. One is that the cruise lines are now reporting crime stats to the FBI and CGIS. I'm sure you've seen this site...

 

https://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg2/cgis/CruiseLine.asp

 

Ref extraterritorial jurisdiction, I'm not sure how that term came up. While I don't agree with everything Blumenthal said, I don't think this qualifies as extraterritorial jurisdiction. These ships are operated out of the US, from companies headquartered in the US and trading in the US. Regulatory jurisdiction already exists, so I don't see the leap to extraterritorial.

 

Don't let bUU get to you. He's a troll. He does this in every thread in which he posts.

 

I agree that the CVSSA has brought about some good and the Bill of Rights has made the cruise lines do some things they rather wouldn't, but generally not sure how much actual strength the CVSSA has to enforce its requirements. In my mind, its like trying to get the USCG to enforce its own stricter safety and training requirements on foreign flag vessels, rather than merely ensuring SOLAS compliance.

[Paulxyz2004]

That was obvious the first time I saw him/her.... which was this thread. I felt like Bicker had returned.

 

Lord bless the pygmies in Africa. That is not funny.

 

JC

 

To me it looks like a certain ambulance chaser type lawyer with a well known website has signed up for CC. :eek:

[bUU]

The knee jerk reaction to try to insult and brow beat perspectives you don't like away is pitiful. Agree or disagree but try to do so like mature adults rather than inanely trying to claim opposing perspectives are trolling.

 

The point is that the federal government can assert its authority. The only real barrier is myopic reactionaryism.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[jimbo5544]

Thanks op for posting it.

 

 

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[BND]

The knee jerk reaction to try to insult and brow beat perspectives you don't like away is pitiful. Agree or disagree but try to do so like mature adults rather than inanely trying to claim opposing perspectives are trolling.

 

The point is that the federal government can assert its authority. The only real barrier is myopic reactionaryism.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

You do realize the Federal Gov is made up of fallible people, right? There is a reason the Fed Gov is made up of three branches. It stops individuals from trying to control everything. You seem to be the one with the knee jerk reaction and not liking what the majority (and some who actually work in the maritime field) are stating. But, like most bills introduced, this is likely to either go nowhere or be changed drastically in committee.

 

My oldest son has a friend who told him that the Gov can make better decisions for him than he can for himself (he was actually talking about everyone). My son just shook his head.

[bUU]

You seem to be the one with the knee jerk reaction and not liking what the majority (and some who actually work in the maritime field) are stating.

The majority of people posting to this thread doesn't constitute a reason to use puerile nonsense to try to blot out opposing perspectives. A majority of people posting to this thread may not even constitute a representation of the perspectives of the actual majority of people, and surely doesn't represent a permanent condition. Consider the long-term trend going back a few hundred years, and recognize that we're in a period of regression.

 

And let's be clear: This isn't a maritime issue. It's a legal/regulatory issue. The more people try to assert their maritime credentials the clearer it becomes to me that it is a knee jerk reaction to the reality that this isn't a maritime issue and a reflection of dissatisfaction that this matter involves other expertise.

 

But, like most bills introduced, this is likely to either go nowhere or be changed drastically in committee.

It's good to come back to a matter of agreement. This isn't going to anywhere, just like the 2015 bill didn't go anywhere. Trying to improve anything for the little guy is going to have to wait for a different time when we have moved past the aforementioned period of regression.

[Ocean Boy]

Just back from groomers.

 

 

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Bella knows who has the cookies.:)

[Ocean Boy]

That was obvious the first time I saw him/her.... which was this thread. I felt like Bicker had returned.

Lord bless the pygmies in Africa. That is not funny.

 

JC

Oh my...:eek::eek::eek: