Still another formal night question

[RocketMan275]

I feel that attire is a superficial aspect and that festivity is intention not superficiality. Many years ago, my spouse and I spent an anniversary hiking Rich Mountain in the Smokeys. At dinner after the hike, we were sweaty, in t-shirts shirt and shorts, and it was as festive as any dinner we ever had. We were together; humans in connection with each other. Festivity is intention.

 

And that extends beyond festivity. On Sunday we worship. We praise, we reflect, we commit. And some folks are wearing jeans. And it is still just as much worship.

 

So, why would someone allow superficial things like what someone else is wearing to dinner affect their "festivity"?

 

I just do not understand this 'I can't have an enjoyable evening if someone else is wearing blue jeans". You book a suite for several thousand, and you let someone in a baseball cap ruin your cruise? Why would anyone give that much power to a total stranger?

[RocketMan275]

That's only part of the experience.. the rest being a combination of many factors, including the special menu, mood of the dining room staff and guests, different (upbeat) ambiance and just generally a different 'vibe' altogether.

 

I think what you're saying is that the expectation of a good time increases the chances that you will have a good time. That makes a lot of sense.

[KroozNut]

I think what you're saying is that the expectation of a good time increases the chances that you will have a good time. That makes a lot of sense.

 

Yep, what folks choose to wear on Gala Night (as long as they're within guidelines) is only a small aspect of the overall festive experience that evening.

[OlsSalt]

Bottom line for us is that we continue to pack only casual clothes, as we have done for several years now.

 

We have noticed two trends. The first is that formal nights/gala nights are no where near what they used to be in terms of food, food quality, food preparation, service, and indeed entertainment. Same on all the mass market lines. Cutbacks. We understand why this is. They used to be special. Now for us they really are not. The waiters, the m'aitre d and the wine steward may be wearing their best uniforms and the table settings are very attractive however this does not, in our opinion, compensate in any way for the decline in the MDR.

 

Second trend is how many people in our age group, early sixties, and below have adapted a more casual dress and seem to have fewer concerns with absolute conformity. This may be attributable to the fact that we do not take long cruises, 12-21 days or so is the norm for us . Not certain why this is. We do not really care what others wear but we certainly see fewer and fewer tuxedos, suits, and ties,jackets, long gowns, etc,

 

Not sure which came first since we have been cruising during this period of change. Our first cruise witnessed someone getting rejected at MDR door for improper dress and subsequently getting banned from the MDR for the rest of the cruise since he became very belligerent in response. That brought out a phalanx of head chef and other officers to deal with his loud protests.

 

If taking the temperature on this issue just on CC, the trend started clearly going against the more formal prior dress code guidelines with their actual enforcements. To the current state of a very optional "gala" suggestions.

 

So did the changes come more from the changing passenger demographics who wanted to dress more casually, or the ships slowly down-grading of the event itself? Whatever, it has been about a 10 year evolution from where we sat. And for us, we still love the chance to dress up in full regalia. Long may those memories live within us.

 

Yes, it is "prom night" and has become a special signature of our own entire cruise experience. Though the heavy beaded dresses in the past did get replaced with far lighter sparkles and sequins, once the new airline weight limits went into effect.

[VennDiagram]

Hal has relaxed the dress code. No need to go and buy a new suitcase to bring something that is not a requirement.

 

If I was gone for 3 months and a cruise was a small part of it the gala night clothes would stay at home. ....

 

Thank you! I agree :)

[bUU]

So, why would someone allow superficial things like what someone else is wearing to dinner affect their "festivity"?

It beats me why some people allow what other people are wearing affect their "festivity".

 

I just do not understand this 'I can't have an enjoyable evening if someone else is wearing blue jeans". You book a suite for several thousand, and you let someone in a baseball cap ruin your cruise? Why would anyone give that much power to a total stranger?

I agree 100%. The attire should matter at all, but surely the attire of others should matter less than nothing.

[KroozNut]

The attire should matter at all, but surely the attire of others should matter less than nothing.

 

No argument here, as long as the attire meets HAL's clearly established guidelines.;)

[RocketMan275]

No argument here, as long as the attire meets HAL's clearly established guidelines.;)

 

Suppose you have anytime dining. It's Formal/Gala Night. Suppose you join a table with a couple who are already seated. They are very charming and you have a wonderful evening only to find when they stand to leave (gasp, horrors), they're wearing blue jeans.

 

How does that change your perception of the evening?

[bUU]

No argument here, as long as the attire meets HAL's clearly established guidelines.;)

The guests' obligation to respect the host.

 

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[KroozNut]

Suppose you have anytime dining. It's Formal/Gala Night. Suppose you join a table with a couple who are already seated. They are very charming and you have a wonderful evening only to find when they stand to leave (gasp, horrors), they're wearing blue jeans.

 

How does that change your perception of the evening?

 

Honestly it would be disappointing to see yet another blatant disregard and disrespect for HAL's very reasonable request to dress within established guidelines.

 

It would demonstrate that particular couple's 'it's all about me' attitude, and I would think less of them; but it would not ruin my evening.

 

As a personal anecdote, on our last cruise, I (not even thinking too much about it) made the mistake of wearing 'nice' shorts and a polo to the MDR. I was promptly stopped at the podium, and not allowed in until I changed. I thanked the staff for their action, went back to our cabin and put on the appropriate attire.

 

It comes down to a matter of respect and regard for the cruiseline, and others in the dining room that do follow the guidelines.

[Stratheden]

The guests' obligation to respect the host.

 

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Sorry there is no host, we are customers who have paid to dine at that restaurant.

[bUU]

Restaurants are your host when you patronize their services.

 

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[Stratheden]

So, it isn't the attire that makes Gala/Formal Nights special and festive?

 

What is so festive about clothing?

If they had a dance floor and a band where people could dance between courses that may be festive.

If they served extra special food, maybe that would be festive. But they don't. There is nothing special about the food.

All they do is put covers on the chairs and the waiter wears a different jacket.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Stratheden

[bUU]

If they served extra special food, maybe that would be festive.

Wait a minute. Festive was "special" earlier in the thread. Who said you get to unilaterally change it to "extra special"?

 

 

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[KroozNut]

Sorry there is no host, we are customers who have paid to dine at that restaurant.

 

Beg to differ.. the cruise line is your host, and in this case the MDR specifically. Just like on land, the restaurant has specific 'guidelines' that one must adhere to in order to patronize that establishment; hence the common phrase, 'no shoes, no shirt, no entry'..

[Hlitner]

What is so festive about clothing?

If they had a dance floor and a band where people could dance between courses that may be festive.

If they served extra special food, maybe that would be festive. But they don't. There is nothing special about the food.

All they do is put covers on the chairs and the waiter wears a different jacket.

 

You have a good point. So if I sat at your MDR table totally nude, with my hairy chest staring you in the face...you would be OK? Or perhaps I would show you a bit more respect and show up in a Speedo :). Where do you draw the line?

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

Sorry there is no host, we are customers who have paid to dine at that restaurant.

 

The cruise line is your host. The cruise line is also the host of your fellow passengers - who should be able to expect that you will comply with whatever guidelines your mutual host specifies.

[iancal]

Why focus on the extremes? The vast majority of people are close to the center on this, both in attitude and dress.

 

From my perspective there is as little merit going on about tshirts, baseball hats, etc as there is going on about tuxedos. Reality resides in between.

[Bentleg]

Tie and jacket is the majority on a formal night. If you don't want to do that, eat in the Lido, the menu is the same.

 

 

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[kazu]

Tie and jacket is the majority on a formal night. If you don't want to do that, eat in the Lido, the menu is the same.

 

 

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Sorry, but tie and jacket is not the requirement on GALA nights. Yes, some people wear them (as does DH) out of choice. But, it is not a requirement Nor is it always the majority on Gala night. It depends upon the cruise and the demographic of those on board IME. There is no need to eat in the Lido unless you choose not to dress in the minimum requirement established by HAL or you prefer the Lido ;)

[cruisetheworld67]

Tie and jacket is the majority on a formal night. If you don't want to do that, eat in the Lido, the menu is the same.

 

 

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So because I am not wearing a jacket and tie on a Gala Night ( get it right ...it is now called a gala night....not formal night) and I show up in a pair of slacks with a polo shirt....I should be sent to the Lido to eat?

 

No No! If you are not comfortable cuz I do not meet YOUR requirements .... how about YOU go to the Lido! After all......the menu is the same.:evilsmile:

[slidergirl]

Tie and jacket is the majority on a formal night. If you don't want to do that, eat in the Lido, the menu is the same.

 

 

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Absolutely, positively wrong. Sorry.

 

Tie and jacket are not in the majority, unless perhaps you are doing the 30+day HAL cruises.

As long as someone is attired to at least the ship's minimum suggestions, that person is more than welcome to dine in the MDR by the ship. They need not to relegate themselves to the Lido because some will stick their noses in the air and "tsk tsk" because a jacket and tie or LBD is not worn. It doesn't matter if it is Gala Night (NOTE: Formal night has been thankfully retired, so it is not an appropriate term to use for HAL anymore), or embarkation night, a jacket is not a prerequisite for entry into the MDR - it is pants and a collared shirt for men, dress or pants for women.

 

We can go on with the extremes of shorts, baseball hats, Speedos, Daisy Dukes, dresses 8 inches above the knee and showing every inch of the body - if that person shows up and is allowed to enter the MDR, you have choices: complain to the host and ask for another table, get up and leave or suck it up and eat. Only self-important boors would comment to the guests who were allowed in.

[RocketMan275]

You have a good point. So if I sat at your MDR table totally nude, with my hairy chest staring you in the face...you would be OK? Or perhaps I would show you a bit more respect and show up in a Speedo :). Where do you draw the line?

 

Hank

That's a straw man argument. No one is arguing that total nudity is acceptable in the MDR.

 

Could you explain how/why wearing blue jeans destroys the 'festivity' of Gala Nights?

[KroozNut]

Could you explain how/why wearing blue jeans destroys the 'festivity' of Gala Nights?

 

I don't believe anyone is saying that someone wearing blue jeans would 'destroy the festivity' (your words) of a Gala Night.

 

However, what some of us ARE saying is that wearing blue jeans on a Gala Night in fact directly violates HAL's MDR attire guidelines for those nights, and blatantly disrespects both HAL and their fellow guests. For some, it represents very self-centered and selfish behavior.

[iancal]

Certainly in the MDR on Gala nights. But we do not bother with Gala night MDR requirements in other parts of the ship. Plus, we see lots of people changing after dinner and before going to the bars. Like it or not, that is the custom of many people. Including us when we did wear suit, tie, etc.

 

And I am VERY certain that HAL would rather have us out and about, spending money in the bars and the casino, rather the hiding in our cabin all evening.