Still another formal night question

[RocketMan275]

I don't believe anyone is saying that someone wearing blue jeans would 'destroy the festivity' (your words) of a Gala Night.

 

However, what some of us ARE saying is that wearing blue jeans on a Gala Night in fact directly violates HAL's MDR attire guidelines for those nights, and blatantly disrespects both HAL and their fellow guests. For some, it represents very self-centered and selfish behavior.

 

I don't believe anyone is claiming that blue jeans satisfies the guidelines. The question is whether these guidelines are appropriate to today's cruising experience?

 

I understand that some think it is "very self-centered and selfish behavior" to wear blue jeans in the MDR on Gala Nights and they consider it to be "blatant disrespect" of their wishes. To me, the imposition of one's preferences in attire on others is also "very self-centered and selfish behavior" and "blatant disrespect" of the wishes of other guests.

 

I simply do not understand why any one's enjoyment of Gala Nights would be adversely affected by the mere sight of a pair of blue jeans?

Edited June 5, 2017 by RocketMan275

[RocketMan275]

Certainly in the MDR on Gala nights. But we do not bother with Gala night MDR requirements in other parts of the ship. Plus, we see lots of people changing after dinner and before going to the bars. Like it or not, that is the custom of many people. Including us when we did wear suit, tie, etc.

 

And I am VERY certain that HAL would rather have us out and about, spending money in the bars and the casino, rather the hiding in our cabin all evening.

 

If dressing up is so much fun, then why ditch the 'nice' clothes as soon as possible?

 

Have you ever encountered disapproving behavior from other guests while you were out and about on Gala nights in casual clothing? There have been multiple reports of snarky comments and rolling eyes.

[iancal]

No, but we probably would not notice, nor would we even care.

 

Besides, it is not like we were the only ones who do/did this. It is very common, and it was very common before the change from Formal to Gala. It is all make believe Mr and Mrs Dress-UP to us so we really don't give it much thought. We are not that insecure that we worry needlessly about fitting in.

 

On our last RCI cruise we were in the Diamond lounge for drinks at about 7PM on formal night. There was a mix. Half or more of us in casual clothes (mostly Ozzies), a third in jackets, no ties, and the balance in tux or dinner jacket. That was how it seemed when we were out and about on the ship. Very few women were dressed in formal attire. DW said most were casual.....slacks, glittery tops, skirts, with best Sunday beads.

Our Princess cruise in Feb seemed to have about the same numbers so far as we could discern.

[OlsSalt]

....

I simply do not understand why any one's enjoyment of Gala Nights would be adversely affected by the mere sight of a pair of blue jeans?

 

Begging the next question, why is someone's enjoyment of Gala Night adversely affected when asked to dress to the express standards for that setting?

 

If the answer to the first questions is I get to do whatever I want to do, then those who don't like seeing jeans on formal night get to do what they want to do - which is not like seeing jeans in the dining room on Gala night. They have as much right to look down their noses at the guy in jeans, as the guy in jeans has for flaunting the express guidelines in place when he bought the cruise ticket.

 

Win-win for everyone. Long live the Blue nose Brigade! Don't demand they cannot continue to look down their noses at the Gala night jeans wearers.

[KroozNut]

The question is whether these guidelines are appropriate to today's cruising experience?

 

I think most folks on this thread would answer a big YES to that question.

 

I understand that some think it is "very self-centered and selfish behavior" to wear blue jeans in the MDR on Gala Nights and they consider it to be "blatant disrespect" of their wishes. To me, the imposition of one's preferences in attire on others is also "very self-centered and selfish behavior" and "blatant disrespect" of the wishes of other guests.

 

No, some consider it blatant disrespect of HAL's wishes and guidelines regarding appropriate attire in the MDR for Gala Nights, and it is. It is not the imposition of our wishes on other's attire, it is the observance of others disrespecting HAL's wishes that is the issue.

 

I simply do not understand why any one's enjoyment of Gala Nights would be adversely affected by the mere sight of a pair of blue jeans?

 

Refer to the above.. :rolleyes:

[broadwaybaby123]

I always dress according to the dress code in the MDR that night. If it's that uncomfortable, I'll change after dinner. Formal night is one of my favorite nights, and I certainly wouldn't want to offend other cruisers who choose to dress up.

 

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[bUU]

I think most folks on this thread would answer a big YES to that question.:

All that matters is what the cruise line requires. For gentlemen, collared shirt and slacks. For ladies, dresses, skirts and slacks are all acceptable.

 

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[retird]

Some posters are referring to "formal night" and "gala/formal night". Didn't Holland America take the word formal out of it and rename it just "gala night" and eliminate the requirement of a tie and jacket?

[POA1]

Some posters are referring to "formal night" and "gala/formal night". Didn't Holland America take the word formal out of it and rename it just "gala night" and eliminate the requirement of a tie and jacket?

 

Indeed, they did.

[kazu]

Some posters are referring to "formal night" and "gala/formal night". Didn't Holland America take the word formal out of it and rename it just "gala night" and eliminate the requirement of a tie and jacket?

 

Indeed, they did.

 

ditto to POA. It's Gala Night and there is NO requirement for tie and jacket despite what some say.

 

What some of us do by choice, doesn't mean anyone else has to.

[RocketMan275]

Begging the next question, why is someone's enjoyment of Gala Night adversely affected when asked to dress to the express standards for that setting?

 

If the answer to the first questions is I get to do whatever I want to do, then those who don't like seeing jeans on formal night get to do what they want to do - which is not like seeing jeans in the dining room on Gala night. They have as much right to look down their noses at the guy in jeans, as the guy in jeans has for flaunting the express guidelines in place when he bought the cruise ticket.

 

Win-win for everyone. Long live the Blue nose Brigade! Don't demand they cannot continue to look down their noses at the Gala night jeans wearers.

 

There is a right to restrict dress which is truly outrageous and offensive. Blue jeans and baseball caps do not fit that criteria. It really comes down to how much control should you have over another persons behavior in order to enhance your experience. The other people on a cruise are not there to assist you in your enjoyment of your cruise. You have no right to impress them into your service, ie, wearing the attire you desire.

[OlsSalt]

There is a right to restrict dress which is truly outrageous and offensive. Blue jeans and baseball caps do not fit that criteria. It really comes down to how much control should you have over another persons behavior in order to enhance your experience. The other people on a cruise are not there to assist you in your enjoyment of your cruise. You have no right to impress them into your service, ie, wearing the attire you desire.

 

The ship establishes the guidelines for dress, not the other passengers. But the passengers can express themselves in any way they want - either by ignoring the guidelines if the ship does not enforce them, or looking down on those who have chosen to ignore them. That pretty much covers all the main possibilities under discussion.

[bUU]

Except there is a difference. The host sets the rules of the house. The host has standing to enforce requirements within the rules of the house if they see fit. A guest who does not comply has no right to outrage when the host enforces the requirements. Another guest has no standing to enforce the requirements. Another guest has no standing whatsoever with regard to expectations on other guests. So somebody who is complying with the rules but not with the expectations on other guests is literally and explicitly fault free. But somebody who is complying with the rules but interfering with the host's efforts to make other guests feel welcome is violating guest obligation.

 

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[marcc]

I'm the guy who started this thread. I just wanted to know if I had to bring my suit on this trip. I never expected it to turn into a philosophical discussion on group dynamics. I should have asked about something less contentious like politics, sex or religion. Thank goodness I didn't ask anything about tipping. :D

 

Marc C

[POA1]

I'm the guy who started this thread. I just wanted to know if I had to bring my suit on this trip. I never expected it to turn into a philosophical discussion on group dynamics. I should have asked about something less contentious like politics, sex or religion. Thank goodness I didn't ask anything about tipping. :D

 

Marc C

 

The money question would have been, "What's the dress code for tipping on Gala Nights if you are a smoker?" ;)

[bUU]

The money question would have been, "What's the dress code for tipping on Gala Nights if you are a smoker?" ;)

Is chair-hogging no longer a thing? :)

[POA1]

Is chair-hogging no longer a thing? :)

Not on Gala Nights. (Which we continue to refer to as formal nights because... just because.)

[RocketMan275]

Not on Gala Nights. (Which we continue to refer to as formal nights because... just because.)

 

Simple question: What is the difference between formal nights and gala nights?

Simple answer: Not a lot.

Q: Why the change from “Formal” To “Gala” night?

A: To many, the “Formal” term was misleading as it implies a specific type of dress (black tie or tuxedo) that has never been a requirement. “Gala” still implies festive or dressy without misleading guests to bring attire the majority of guests don’t wear.

Q: Are a jacket and tie required for men?

A: Jacket and tie is the preferred attire in all fine dining restaurants on Gala Nights, though it is not required. Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change.

IOW, HAL changed the name from Formal To Gala with no substantive changes in the policy.

So, what difference does it make whether you call it Formal or Gala, the dress policy hasn't changed.

[OlsSalt]

Gala Night: Black tie optional.

[POA1]

Technically black tie or tuxedo isn't formal. It's semi formal. White tie and tails is formal.

 

Most galas are black tie events. Calling something Gala when you really mean business casual just muddles the matter.

 

Of course, I wore black tie (semi formal) on formal nights and there's a whole contingent of people, including HAL, who think Gala = Golf Shirt + Khakis.

 

That's why I propose three realistic dress code standards:

 

1) Screw it. Wear what you want. We give up.

 

2) C'mon, at least act like you're trying.

 

3) Wear what you think looks nice. (This one is coupled with voting by your fellow passengers as to whether you actually look nice or not. The voting is non-binding, but lets you know where you stand.)

[RocketMan275]

Gala Night: Black tie optional.

 

But according to the policy, Black Tie was never required, ie, always optional.

 

The change in terminology was designed to give the appearance of change without making a real change. It was designed to make the evening more attractive to the causal dress crowd without completely alienating the Formal Night Crowd. As the "new" dress codes clearly states, nothing has changed, it's just a word game.

[bUU]

Most galas are black tie events.

Some galas are black tie events. As a matter of fact, "black-tie gala" is not a redundancy. To make a gala a black tie event, it is necessary to include the adjective, "black-tie".

 

Calling something Gala when you really mean business casual just muddles the matter.

Trying to tie a word like gala, which means, "a social occasion with special entertainments or performances" to specific attire worn by the attendees just muddles the matter. If you want to complain that you don't consider those nights to include anything special, then go ahead, but it is a much weaker argument since what is "special" and what is "entertainment" is highly subjective and so the complaint simply is a disagreement with the cruise line, which sounds more like a reason to pick another cruise line rather than anything the cruise line or any of the other passengers is doing wrong.

[RJ2002]

I'm the guy who started this thread. I just wanted to know if I had to bring my suit on this trip. I never expected it to turn into a philosophical discussion on group dynamics. I should have asked about something less contentious like politics, sex or religion. Thank goodness I didn't ask anything about tipping. :D

 

Marc C

 

You don't know the HAL Board, huh? ;) You can count on answers to simple questions evolving into this type of exchange.

 

Enjoy your cruise without your suit! :D

[OlsSalt]

But according to the policy, Black Tie was never required, ie, always optional.

 

The change in terminology was designed to give the appearance of change without making a real change. It was designed to make the evening more attractive to the causal dress crowd without completely alienating the Formal Night Crowd. As the "new" dress codes clearly states, nothing has changed, it's just a word game.

 

Gala Night: Black tie optional.

Don't overthink this.

[slidergirl]

Some galas are black tie events. As a matter of fact, "black-tie gala" is not a redundancy. To make a gala a black tie event, it is necessary to include the adjective, "black-tie".

 

Trying to tie a word like gala, which means, "a social occasion with special entertainments or performances" to specific attire worn by the attendees just muddles the matter. If you want to complain that you don't consider those nights to include anything special, then go ahead, but it is a much weaker argument since what is "special" and what is "entertainment" is highly subjective and so the complaint simply is a disagreement with the cruise line, which sounds more like a reason to pick another cruise line rather than anything the cruise line or any of the other passengers is doing wrong.

 

From the Cambridge Dictionary: "a special public occasion at which there is a lot of entertainment."

 

Sure does not sound like HAL (based on the other thread on lack of entertainment) ;)

 

The dress "code" for gala - doesn't it depend on the location and cultural norms of the location? New York City? Right off the bat, I think of the Met Gala. I've received invites for "gala evening" fundraisers here in town - NEVER would anyone here imagine running out and renting a tux or gown for them - it's "country club" wear as the highest level, but many still show up in jeans and a jacket for older men (yep, they think throwing on the old blue blazer with the jeans is fancy). The biggest annual Gala here is a fundraiser for our small theater and summer music program. The two biggest anticipated entertainment features of this Gala are the Cow Ballet and Cowpie Bingo (think about this one for a second!!) Tuxes and gowns are definitely NOT standard attire...

The Gala opening for the Sundance Film Festival - definitely not formal attire, either... It's all in what the organizer determines what they want for the dress and it is up to the organizer to let attendees know the level of "atmosphere" for said specific gala.