Feeling a bit screwed over by RC, Irma safety/risk issue and no-refund, greed?

[caribill]

The area airports are planning to close for the weekend. If the ship is going to sail on Tuesday the 12th, than that means arriving on Monday the 11th. That is a very tight window. What if the airports are not ready then?

 

It is more than a case of flights actually operating on the 11th (or even the 12th).

 

There must actually be space on the flights for all the passengers who need to get to the port. These are not fully empty planes waiting to get new bookings. They would be existing flights which probably have very few available seats.

 

But it is also a question of the flights being able to operate. In Houston IAH and HOU shut down as tropical storm (not a hurricane as far as Houston was concerned) Harvey approached. Two days after the storm passed, the airports were ready for commercial flights again, but even five days after that the airlines had not gotten back to their normal schedules. Reason was that the airlines had repositioned their planes away from the area and it takes days to get planes and crews in position again.

 

 

So, if there is no major damage from wind and water to the Miami area airports, and if they resume a full schedule of flights within 24 hours after the storm has passed and if the cruise passengers manage to get seats on the flights, then they could get to the port on the 11th (with no hotel rooms available) or in the 12th in time for the cruise.

 

For another aspect of the overall problem, if the RCI and CCL and other ships do make it back to the two local ports on the 11th and 12th, many of the disembarking passengers will need the airports to be operating with an almost normal schedule so the passengers can fly home.

 

What will RCI do if the port is open, but the airports are closed and the disembarking passengers have no flights out of town and no hotel rooms to book?

[Luckybee]

I feel for you. I'm not cruising until Nov/Dec but supposed go to St Martin and Thomas twice on my B2B2B2B's. Unfortunately this is nothing new, cruise lines do this almost every yr, be it ship with Mechanical issues or weather: Harvey, Mathew, Sandy. Ships stay out extra 1-3 days, next one sails short those days and get them prorated usually with offer like now, sometimes not. Couple storms had ships sailing on cruise to nowhere, all sea days. They usually never cancel. Been cruising 30 yrs and had over dozen times at least one port change for all, can't remember ever getting any $ for changes. One thing do remember is yrs ago if ship missed a port they didn't even give you the Port Tax back.

 

Im not personally affected as you can see by my earlier posts...just feels wrong to me to put people in danger the way Royal is doing and Im quite empathetic towards those who are in this position

[1cats1]

I appreciate RCCL's optimism, however also consider the influx of Floridians being told to evacuate. If ships can sail on the 13th, those folks need to return to cleanup. Those cruisers trying to get to the port on the 13th might very well have no hotels to stay in. Should have bought the insurance. :o

[dcgrumpy]

Does that include air flight to the port and back, medical evacuation, etc. Am a nurse and have done cpr on a cruise passenger would not want to be off loaded in a 3rd world country-in this gentleman's time it was Jamaica

Yes. I don't remember all of the figures but I know it covered up to $1,000,000 for medical evacuation since that is always my biggest concern.

[bUU]

What will RCI do if the port is open, but the airports are closed and the disembarking passengers have no flights out of town and no hotel rooms to book?

There's a reason why all the cruise lines make explicitly clear in the contract that getting to/from the port of embarkation/debarkation is solely the passenger's responsibility. The very nice pricing (especially in August, September and October) factors in the terms and conditions and the likelihood of things like this happening; the additional risks that passengers are taking is baked in to the much lower fares passengers pay this time of year. So given all that, we should expect them to operate the cruise for the passengers who paid for it, who can get to the port as they're supposed to, and who wish to go on a shortened cruise, if applicable.

[SRF]

Appreciate the info but I disagree entirely that the entire weight of responsibility should be placed entirely on a persons choice of whether they purchased insurance or not, that's just not rational thinking. If the product I purchased cannot be delivered as advertised due to the cruiseline not being able to fulfill the product sold, customers should NOT be left on the hook or blamed simply because they didn't purchase insurance.

 

You do realize that if you have airline flights scheduled, and they are canceled or delayed due to weather the airline is not reasonable for giving you ANYTHING. No meals, no room, nothing. They will get you there, when they can. It may be later the same day, it may be the next day, and it may even be 2 - 3 days later.

 

The fine print IS important, as you are agreeing to it when you book. It is a contract between you and the cruise line. Saying later, "well that isn't fair, they should do what is 'right'" is not realistic. And if the cruise line tried to do something different from the fine print to suit themselves, you would be yelling about that.

[SRF]

YI can tell you today which holidays we are taking, and when right up until the end of 2018 and into the beginning of 2019. If I had to sit down and look at dates where we both would be available between now and the end of 2018 I might be able to find a week or two but Im skeptical that I could. A one year credit wouldn't work well for us.

 

AFAIK, you have one year to BOOK the next cruise, not one year to TAKE the cruise. So you could wait until August next year, and be able to book out to around April 2020.

[baileybrad]

Really? My wife is teacher, school here does not get out till the after first week of June, then teachers are held over for another week and then she has 6-7 days of continuing education to complete, which most of those are only offered in the first weeks of June.

That is your situation, and based on your own comments the last week of June is open. We have about 6 teachers in our subdivision and their families travel on vacation in June all the time.

 

So your next choice would seem to be July, still a not an extremely busy season for hurricane activity. We have cruised once in June, twice in July and even one in early August over the past few years and have had no storm issues. We drive to the ports (Canaveral and Everglades) from SC.

 

SO if you REALLY want to cruise with your wife..........July it is.

[lbjen]

Another consideration on spaces available on incoming flights is that the airlines need to get all the people they diverted to other airports back into the area too. One of our friends was diverted to Chicago while IAH was shut and they didn't get her back here until 2 days after it reopened because that's how long it took for a seat to become available.

[baileybrad]

We had people in Houston who came down early for their cruise, because they knew it was likely that their flight would be canceled the day before the cruise was supposed to depart. They came early, into a storm, because RC said they would not get their money back if they weren't here when the ship left.

And it may happen again expect Florida is gonna be torn up from her toes to her head. In my lifetime a storm has never went straight up the peninsula. Crossed it, doubled back and crossed it again, rode a coast but not what this one looks to do. Messy, messy, messy.

[bUU]

Another consideration on spaces available on incoming flights is that the airlines need to get all the people they diverted to other airports back into the area too.

Yes, passengers do need to consider the impact of situations like this on their ability to get to/from the port and factor that into their decisions, initially with regard to whether to book during certain times of the years and whether/how much travel insurance to purchase, and then in the moment with regard to whether it is practical for them to attempt to get to the cruise versus cancelling and incurring whatever losses they'll incur as a result.

[el820]

June

 

Up here in Toronto Canada, school continues to the end of June unless you're in post secondary.

[orville99]

Quoted directly from RCL's website (and this has been on there since Wednesday): "Given the changes to these sailings, if you are unable to travel and need to cancel your cruise, we will provide you with a 100% future cruise credit. Pre-booked shore excursions will be refunded to your original form of payment, and you will have the ability to book excursions in our new ports of call once onboard. "

[BNBR]

You do realize that if you have airline flights scheduled, and they are canceled or delayed due to weather the airline is not reasonable for giving you ANYTHING. No meals, no room, nothing. They will get you there, when they can. It may be later the same day, it may be the next day, and it may even be 2 - 3 days later.

 

The fine print IS important, as you are agreeing to it when you book. It is a contract between you and the cruise line. Saying later, "well that isn't fair, they should do what is 'right'" is not realistic. And if the cruise line tried to do something different from the fine print to suit themselves, you would be yelling about that.

 

Airlines operate very differently than cruise lines and are regulated with their own set of rules. Weather delays with airlines are almost always relatively short. Canceled flights are refunded as well, they wouldn't generally delay a flight 3 or 4 days like Royal is trying to do with the cruise. The flight would be canceled and you can take a refund.

 

This comes off, to me, as a bit slimy that Royal is delaying the cruise several days to avoid giving out refunds. I tend to agree with the other poster, if the cruise cannot offer your the product you paid for, you should get a full refund. That's fairly normal commerce. But sure, the fine print is there and Royal (and other lines) can screw you if they want.

 

Really, who is going to be able to travel to South Florida for a cruise on Wednesday? It's bumper to bumper trying to get out of the State, no gas, etc. Everyone will be trying to get home Wednesday and they expect people to somehow get to the cruise ports from out of State? That's entirely unreasonable and ridiculous, but it allows them to keep peoples money and avoid cancellation.

 

I disagree that this is what insurance is for. The difference here is Royal being able to offer the product, as originally advertised. If you can't get to the port on Sunday because there is a thunderstorm and flight cancellations in Iowa or whatever, then sure, insurance. If there is a hurricane disrupting the port and Royal is unable to provide the product you paid for, that's on Royal, not you.

Edited September 8, 2017 by BNBR

[marci22]

People begged and pleaded with RCI to NOT come to the impacted area and all RC said was "Then lose your money, even with insurance, because the cruise is a Go."

 

I'm pretty sure that there are some policies that cover you if a hurricane warning is issued in your departure city or home city within a certain time limit (saw 7 days for one). So even if Royal sailed, you would be covered.

 

There is also this trip cancellation coverage on my cc: "Severe weather, which prevents a reasonable and prudent personfrom beginning or continuing on a Covered Trip"

[bUU]

Airlines operate very differently than cruise lines and are regulated with their own set of rules.

Very true.

 

they wouldn't generally delay a flight 3 or 4 days like Royal is trying to do with the cruise.

To be fair, United Airlines doesn't have any 7-day long flights.

 

This comes off, to me, as a bit slimy that Royal is delaying the cruise several days to avoid giving out refunds.

It shouldn't come off as anything other than what the affordable mass-market cruise lines have all done for a long time and what the terms and conditions state that they can do. Cancel the short cruises and delay the longer cruises. These terms and conditions are baked into the pricing. If the cruise lines were to offer a superior product (with more of the risk being borne by the cruise line and less of the risk borne by the traveler) then prices would be unacceptably higher as far as many consumers are concerned.

 

I tend to agree with the other poster, if the cruise cannot offer your the product you paid for, you should get a full refund.

How much more money is a majority of cruise passengers willing to pay for that change to the terms and conditions of the cruise contract? This isn't basic food, clothing or shelter; it's a discretionary expense and so the pricing is based on the value of what's offered: Increase the value = increase the price.

 

Both the supplier and the purchaser have obligations in any commercial transaction. If you don't like the offer, decline and walk away.

[LeeW]

OP is mostly wrong about his options. The actual offer is !00% FCC if you don't cruise on Wednesday; 50% FCC plus 50% OBC if you do. No insurance needed. If you have insurance you can get a refund, but assuming you can cruise in the next year you don't lose anything from RCI. Now we still don't know if anyone can get to Fort Lauderdale on Wednesday, or if the ship can get into port, but this isn't a bad deal.

 

Folks that got off ship in Jamaica apparently were complaining about poor treatment. Onboard it is the opposite - continuous updates on the ship info channel, information on getting off in Puerto Maya and Cozumel (Saturday and Monday). No charged gratuities for Sun-Wed (but you can add them back). Drinks/internet 50% off (not free, though). If you bought the ultimate dining package it is extended for free for rest of cruise. Specialty dining otherwise is 50% off. Calm seas, warm, and a port every other day. Current plan is Cozumel on Monday and one sea day north of Cuba.

 

Things could still go wrong - if port and airport are not open on Wednesday then new folks can't get on and folks onboard will continue to cruise around.

[MikeBTN]

"Some people, like the OP, are just complaining that that they just don't get a complete cash refund like those folks who's cruises have been cancelled."

 

You just don't get it do you? It could literally be a life or death situation here for anyone attempting to come in to make the modified cruise, let alone all of the Floridian's that are in harms way. How you can be so dense not to get that blows my mind. There is no crystal ball right now on exactly where this thing hit's. It's NOT about the money right now, it's about safety and a cruiseline not willing to deter their cruisers from coming into a potentially catastrophic situation just so they can mitigate some fiscal loss.

 

As you said yourself, there is no crystal ball - why would you expect Royal Caribbean to completely cancel a cruise when the cruise ports could be safe and easily accessible on Tuesday or Wednesday? You, they, and I have no idea.

 

As mentioned by several individuals, many people have relatively inflexible schedules. There are also many people planning on sailing that are not from Florida and I'm sure would like to take some portion of their vacation. Some people from Florida may also just want to get away from the destruction or might not have a place to stay, and the ship allows them some sort of haven.

 

Lastly, and this somehow continues to get lost in this discussion, Royal Caribbean IS NOT FORCING ANYONE TO COME TO THE PORT. If you don't feel safe or comfortable, THEY'RE ALLOWING YOU OUT OF THE CONTRACT. Instead of issuing a 100% cash refund, they're issuing the credit as a future cruise credit.

 

Also a side note - I imagine most trip insurance offerings would not issue you a refund should the port be open and the ship sail in these conditions unless you have some sort of "cancel for any reason" or "cancel for a named storm" type coverage. If the ship is sailing and you can "reasonably" (and that definition is up to the insurance company) get to port, the insurance company will expect you to be on the ship. No different from Royal Caribbean, except that Royal Caribbean is offering to allow you to change your sailing date.

[BNBR]

OP is mostly wrong about his options. The actual offer is !00% FCC if you don't cruise on Wednesday; 50% FCC plus 50% OBC if you do. No insurance needed. If you have insurance you can get a refund, but assuming you can cruise in the next year you don't lose anything from RCI. Now we still don't know if anyone can get to Fort Lauderdale on Wednesday, or if the ship can get into port, but this isn't a bad deal.

 

Folks that got off ship in Jamaica apparently were complaining about poor treatment. Onboard it is the opposite - continuous updates on the ship info channel, information on getting off in Puerto Maya and Cozumel (Saturday and Monday). No charged gratuities for Sun-Wed (but you can add them back). Drinks/internet 50% off (not free, though). If you bought the ultimate dining package it is extended for free for rest of cruise. Specialty dining otherwise is 50% off. Calm seas, warm, and a port every other day. Current plan is Cozumel on Monday and one sea day north of Cuba.

 

Things could still go wrong - if port and airport are not open on Wednesday then new folks can't get on and folks onboard will continue to cruise around.

 

I'd rather be on a cruise ship than in Fort Lauderdale right now. That's for sure. I have friends that got stuck in Aruba. Darn....

[Cuizer2]

Caribill and others -

Just wanted to say, I feel your pain. We were scheduled on Royal Caribbean when Hurricane Jeanne struck in 2004. We faced all the dilemmas that current passengers are facing.

 

Our cruise was to leave Miami on Saturday - the day the hurricane was to hit Miami. On Friday morning, RCCI was insisting our ship would travel as planned (that's why I'm suspicious of that big list of ships they currently claim are still going this weekend).

 

We were a family group flying from the West Coast and celebrating our dad's birthday. We had to leave Friday morning to have any chance of getting to Miami before the storm hit and being available for the still-scheduled sailing.

 

Our group included two elderly parents and a four-month old baby. Coach airfare to fly us all to Miami was about $6000. I purchased trip insurance for everyone. I was also treating the entire family group to the cruise.

 

On Friday morning, we had to make the decision to fly to Miami -- straight into a coming hurricane or stay home. Since RCCI continued to claim the cruise was going as scheduled, we felt we had no choice but to fly.

 

Also, I called the insurer explaining the situation and that the cruise was unlikely to go given the hurricane.

 

The insurance company response:

If your flight is going to Miami and you're not on it, we will NOT reimburse you for the airfare.

If your cruise sails and you're not on the ship, we will NOT reimburse you for the cruise fare.

 

So insurance is often not very helpful in these situations.

 

With no further information and unwilling to forfeit $6,000 of airfare and approximately $8,000 in cruise fare, we boarded our flight from So. Cal. on Friday morning, flying directly into the hurricane's path and having no idea if we would have to evacuate to a shelter. Our Friday night hotel rooms were at a hotel on South Beach.

 

We arrived in Miami about 4 pm on Friday. About 5 pm on Friday, RCCI announced that our 7-day cruise would leave the following Tuesday for a 4-night cruise. Those who took the 4-night cruise would get a 25% credit for a future cruise and a 50% on board credit. Those who didn't take the cruise were, if I recall correctly, entitled to a 100% FCC.

 

Meanwhile, we now had to figure out if we could stay in our hotel rooms until Tuesday (or if we'd be evacuated by the authorities). We spent Friday night at the hotel. Saturday, we learned that the port of Miami was closed. We also learned, however, that the storm likely would shift further east at the last minute. Our hotel was able to let us keep two of our four rooms (which made for crowded conditions but at least we weren't in a shelter). So, we hunkered down and stayed at the hotel.

 

What did insurance pay for? Two hotel rooms for Saturday, Sunday, Monday, as well as documented food expenses for those days. It wasn't a great deal of money on the insurance claim, plus I'd paid over $500 in premium for the insurance. My biggest frustration was that travel insurance was of no use in helping us in a tough situation.

 

Once on board, the 50% on board credit was nice. We bought a couple of things and then used the rest for a refund to my credit card. The 25% FCC was useless. I had paid for airfare and cruise for our entire family group. But, I only was entitled to the FCC for my cruise fare. The FCC was personal to each person in our group. So, the FCC could only be used for a future cruise if the person holding it had enough money to cruise again during the year. The people in my family did not. So, 10 FCCs went unused.

 

We've since stopped cruising and the way things were handled with respect to Hurricane Jeanne (and our incredible stress at being put in the position of having to fly elderly parents and a baby straight into a hurricane) is one reason why.

 

Thank you for posting this. It shows what happens when the future consequences are unknown (or not thought out too well).

 

I cruise a lot (not as much as some, but in eighteen years I have taken 31 cruises and have another one booked later this year, two booked for 2018, and one more in the spring of 2019), so a FCC that expires in one years would be useless to me because I plan my cruises more than one year out.

[BNBR]

why would you expect Royal Caribbean to completely cancel a cruise when the cruise ports could be safe and easily accessible on Tuesday or Wednesday? You, they, and I have no idea.

 

Because EVERYONE knows the ports won't be easily accessible on Tuesday or Wednesday. Unless you happen to live right near the port and were home for the storm so no need to travel.

 

 

Do you not realize the issue with traffic trying to get out? It's a completely log jammed in the State right now, and people have been evacuating for 4 days. Now, consider the storm will still be in North Florida/Southern US Tuesday, so you can't even drive.... then on Wednesday, when millions are trying to get home, you think people can just hop in their car and "easily access" the ports?

 

And flights should really be full of tourists trying to make a cruise because of RCI's greed and not be more available to residents trying to get home? And try getting a flight that day.... This assumes the airport is even opened and workers are even available. Etc.

 

It's ridiculous. They need to cancel the cruise and make arrangements accordingly. This is a pure money grab. The only reason they are "changing the itinerary" and not canceling is to keep people from receiving refunds. It's as simple as that. I've been defending Royal quite a bit but it's becoming indefensible.

[Cuizer2]

As a shareholder and avid cruiser of RCCL, the #1 reason for all decisions made is MONEY! Stop the BS about pax safety is 1st. It's very obvious they are creating a cruise to nowhere to keep from issuing refunds. We will hold off on calling & canceling the 7 day Allure sailing and hope the 4 day cruise to nowhere is canceled so we can get the refund we are entitled to. If they still won't, I will call my credit card company as a last ditched effort.

 

Sending anyone to S FL on Tues/Wed is insanity...If the city is not badly damaged and the port open, it will be gridlock on the roads heading south to FLL...let alone gas shortages along the way. Sometimes the only way to wake up the bean counters is to put the spotlight on them in the press.

 

Cruises to nowhere are no longer legal. So the ship is going to have to stop at at one foreign port.

 

I completely agree with you on this.

[John&LaLa]

Cruises to nowhere are no longer legal. So the ship is going to have to stop at at one foreign port.

I believe those requirements may have been waived. Majesty is headed east with crew and passengers from our shortened cruise. No plans to stop anywhere.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app

[Cuizer2]

You would think they would have learned something on Harvey. They kept insisting the 8/27 sailing of Liberty was going to happen.Up until either Friday night or Saturday morning, they kept insisting on sending people to the Galveston area. Basic research would have told them it would be impossible for people to even GET to Galveston since the only way to reach the island was UNDER WATER. They sent people into a disaster zone. Now they are attempting to possibly do it again? I don't get it.

 

$$$$$

[Cuizer2]

June

 

The hurricane season begins on June 1.