NCL Cruise Service Charge Refund

[pokerpro5]

It has been clear for a very long time that these could be adjusted.

 

Originally, we could do it onboard.  Now you have to get a form, mail it in, and wait 30 days.

 

Don't feel bad about "removing tips", though.  As I posted on the previous page, DSC is NOT tips.  It's in place to reimburse NCL for employee salaries.  When you remove the DSC, it does not come out of the employees' pockets, unless you name a specific department which was causing the issue, and even then it may not come out of their pay.

 

People like to act sanctimonious on here about the DSC because they want to feel good that they're "tipping" by leaving it in place.  If they acknowledge the truth of the matter -- that they're actually not tipping, and that the DSC goes to NCL -- then they will feel crappy because they'll feel like they stiffed poor, third-world employees.

 

You were 100% correct to remove the DSC if your cruising experience was substandard, and they failed to otherwise compensate you properly.

[Newleno]

25 minutes ago, pokerpro5 said:

It has been clear for a very long time that these could be adjusted.

 

Originally, we could do it onboard.  Now you have to get a form, mail it in, and wait 30 days.

 

Don't feel bad about "removing tips", though.  As I posted on the previous page, DSC is NOT tips.  It's in place to reimburse NCL for employee salaries.  When you remove the DSC, it does not come out of the employees' pockets, unless you name a specific department which was causing the issue, and even then it may not come out of their pay.

 

People like to act sanctimonious on here about the DSC because they want to feel good that they're "tipping" by leaving it in place.  If they acknowledge the truth of the matter -- that they're actually not tipping, and that the DSC goes to NCL -- then they will feel crappy because they'll feel like they stiffed poor, third-world employees.

 

You were 100% correct to remove the DSC if your cruising experience was substandard, and they failed to otherwise compensate you properly.

we had to fill out a form on board, we got the credit before we disembarked, some here said that there was no form to fill out if on board the ship when requesting adjustment, our experience was different.  

 

 

[amscene1]

Does any one have a copy of the sheet they give you onboard to remove the DSC?

[Texas_Holdem]

the NCL gratuities fee is just that,  a scam.  Don't bother falling in love with the auto-tips --- take it off and tip those who you see and deal with directly.

 

 

[erdoran]

Along the context of deceptive business practices via DSC, although it isn't a cruise - hubby and I used to enjoy staying at Cove Haven Entertainments Resorts, which many years ago was run by Caesar's...has since been sold numerous times.  They started (as a Caesar's property) with an 18% autograt on the entire room charge (plus tax, but presumably that's legit).  Rooms ranged from $200-$500+/night, so their MANDATORY DSC even 15 years ago was much higher than NCL's.  The only positive was when you complained that was a LOT of $$ (18% upcharge) you were told there is zero need to tip another penny, other than (of course) if you order drinks, which weren't included.

 

So - $200/night was really $236/night.  Deceptive going in, but at least supposedly it went to the staff, or at least the staff was paid a decent salary.

 

Fast forward to now, same chain now has:

20% SERVICE CHARGE (it's for services, so be sure to tip the staff on top of that)

$27.95 daily resort fee

taxes (somewhere between 6% - 9%)-

Nothing can be removed or adjusted, even if you come during off season where the "resort fee" services are unavailable, other than the indoor pool or hot tub (unless it's out of service, which has happened too) .

 

So now, when you book a room at an advertised rate, you end up with a 30% to 50% upcharge - the $250/night special becomes (excluding tax) $327.50/night PLUS you are EXPECTED to tip everyone on top of that.  The less expensive rooms?  $200/night becomes $267.50/night, over a 30% upcharge before tax, and if you add tips, you could easily drop $20-$30/day on top of that just on housekeeping staff and breakfast/dinner tips.  

 

Why am I talking about a land-based resort on a cruise forum?  To piggyback onto the deceptive business practices topic, which I despise.  I'd much rather in this case the rooms be priced at $327.50 up front, because when you get to the payment page that is what you will see - but I guess a 3 day stay for $750 vs over $1k (with tax that's what it is) is a bit more palatable going in.  But - if that is really the price you pay, then why not just show it up front?  

 

Worst part - what can be done about it?  For us, we've stopped going there because of a lot of reasons, but their sneaky charges are a big reason.  Another, frankly, is that $250/night is pushing it for what they offer, but the "real" price is absurd!

 

And don't charge me a 20% service charge, which means "gratuity" in many other cultures, and then expect me to tip your staff besides!

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by erdoran

[littlelulu01]

This is the information Ncl provides regarding my dsc.  Passing out wads of cash is simply not necessary.  They have great staff who are educated, have access to the internet... if ncl is truly just lying to us and pocket the staff gratuity, they would not have the excellent staff retention. Of course the crew is happy to take extra cash tips but you’re not stiffing if you don’t want to give any more. 

 

 

[cdnsteelman]

6 minutes ago, littlelulu01 said:

They have great staff who are educated, have access to the internet...

I think for me that this is the most salient argument that DSC does, indeed, get distributed to staff (at least a healthy percentage of it). The fact is there are countless ways that disgruntled staff can anonymously call out falsehoods in a very public manner.

 

I still do not believe that 100% of the DSC, however, is distributed to staff - some of it is NCL profit centre. That said the lion's share is being redistributed to staff or there would be lots of anonymous public commentary to the contrary.

 

I also believe that NCL has a very good handle on what percentage of DSC will be removed fleet wide per cruise year as well as per ship / per itinerary (just like Walmart can tell you quite accurately what they expect "shrink" to be on aper department / per store basis and on a regional and national basis). These are very sophisticated businesses and so the expected loss of DSC is then built back in to the amount of DSC charged. In an age of Big Data, this is algorhythmic child's play.

 

There will always be those who remove their DSC for any number of reasons but the fact is they are being subsidized by those who don't and its already built in to the calculation.

 

 

[PTC DAWG]

Some sad comments here from the non tipping crowd...IMHO...

[heelfan94]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

Some sad comments here from the non tipping crowd...IMHO...

Agreed.  I always thought people should have to do some kind of hospitality work so they know what it's like.  I was a waitress in college and it can be tough.  

[Letsgo 2]

Some people should just stay home , and I can’t believe we are still discussing DSC or how to get around paying them. If you don’t want to pay them there is a simple solution, don’t cruise

Marion

[Two Wheels Only]

3 hours ago, cdnsteelman said:

There will always be those who remove their DSC for any number of reasons but the fact is they are being subsidized by those who don't and its already built in to the calculation.

 

Knowing NCL, they probably assume that 100% of guests will remove the DSC....so NCL raises the cruise price by about $150pp to make up the loss.  (FDR math)

[erdoran]

IMHO if someone thinks DSC isn't going to employees and wouldn't ordinarily pay it, take whatever the DSC would be and give it out as direct tips to employees, being sure to catch at least the customer-facing ones.

[littlelulu01]

Poker pro- I think your assumptions are based on ncl’s former wording.  Dsc explanation used to say something about staff incentive programs and lots of folks got hung up on that.  See my screen shot above.  It now clearly reads the Dsc is just a plain old gratuity. 

 

Staff I’ve spoken with really like the program of dsc compensation. If ncl is telling me they are giving my dsc to employees who serve me as my gratuity, AND crew are happy, it’s good enough for me.  

 

 

[fshagan]

Money is fungible. 

 

NCL pays their employees, contractors and vendors.

 

NCL collects the DSC and cruise fares, service charges, etc. They make a profit (hopefully) or take a loss.

 

The way the money flows is not my concern, as it's mainly accounting. 

 

NCL sells cruises. I buy the cruise from them for a set amount of money plus fees that equal a dollar amount I'm willing to pay. At the time I book my cruise, I compare the total cruise cost to the value I place on taking that particular cruise. I don't spend a second wondering where every penny of my total cost is actually going. It never crosses my mind, and I suspect it doesn't cross your mind either. 

 

The only time you think of it is when you see a line item you don't like (for any number of reasons). 

 

So, here's my question: since you started out thinking the total cost was A-OK, and you knew about the costs, and you have an ethical problem with the wording on part of that cost, what do you do with the money? If you don't give an equal or higher amount out in cash, do you give it charity?

 

[jaxw17]

On 9/26/2017 at 5:39 AM, sprint180 said:

 

 

 

As a former waitress I will speak to this.

You are absolutely right to. Tips are to be earned. If I gave crappy service Or really messed a order I wouldn't expect a tip, and, Some people just don't tip. I believe that is their right. I am a good tipper. Probably because I've been on the other side. I have never and would not take off the dsc but I have had basically no service from a steward and did not tip extra, which I normally do. Basically I believe to each their own, tip or no, it's your choice.

 

 

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The voice of reason. Thank you for your reply 

[MiDenny]

So, I'll be up front and state that I pay my DSC well in advance, always.  I do so because it is convenient for me.  I am just a little bit more relaxed because of this and many other things that are paid in advance and I don't need to worry about.  It's part of the price of my vacation as I see it.  I've only been on six cruises, but I can't imagine any service so horrible that I would consider asking for the DSC to be refunded.  That's me....I don't worry for one second what anyone else does. 

 

I do find these threads to be entertaining though.  Neither side of the conversation is ever going to convince the other that they are in the wrong.  I won't try to convince anyone to join my "side", but I do have a couple questions.  To those of you who keep stating as fact that the DSC funds are being captured by NCL and are not making it to the crew, what if they actually posted a breakdown showing where it all went? Would that change your mind? Would you then leave it in place?  I'm guessing that most would be in two groups.  A) The evil corporation is lying or B) I didn't have contact with most of these people so I will still ask for a refund.  Much like me, you've made up your mind what the end result is and will pile up reasons to back up your "argument", though there really isn't any sense in arguing anything. 

 

What I would REALLY like to know is this.  Within the ranks of the people who keep advocating for DSC refund are the people who either did hide (or would) on the last night of the cruise in the days of the envelope system. I'll be honest and confess that I never cruised in the envelope days, but have heard and read many stories on here about the empty dining rooms on the last night.  I'm not saying that everyone on that side of the issue would do this, but they are among your ranks.  I want to know if any of them will actually speak up. After all, they're not required to show up for dinner that night. I'm just curious if anyone will speak up, be honest and say, yep, that's me.  And I'm not talking about those having service issues or problems. I'm talking about the cruisers that would make this their standard practice, no matter what.  They're out there.....

 

 

[mdwcruises]

I keep the DSC intact by default but I certainly wouldn't hesitate removing it if I believe the service doesn't warrant it.   

Edited November 16, 2018 by mdwcruises

[fshagan]

3 minutes ago, MiDenny said:

What I would REALLY like to know is this.  Within the ranks of the people who keep advocating for DSC refund are the people who either did hide (or would) on the last night of the cruise in the days of the envelope system. I'll be honest and confess that I never cruised in the envelope days, but have heard and read many stories on here about the empty dining rooms on the last night. 

 

You are exactly right, not just on this quoted part but also on the rest of your points.

 

When we were cruising in the envelope days you did see a lot of empty tables on the last night. We had two or three cruises where envelopes were still the norm, and I would guess at least 10% of the tables were empty on the last night. I'll bet if you asked people who weren't there at least some of the them would say "I don't trust the envelopes, I give much more in direct cash to the person out of sight of management."

 

I try to take people at their word for their intentions, but I suspect some people use it to reduce the cost of their cruise, and for no other reason. 

[Two Wheels Only]

If I owned a company that sells a cruise for $2,000 + $250 in DSC ($125 each for a couple), and I see that an increasing percentage of guests are removing the DSC, I'll just increase the cruise to $2,300 and proclaim "NO DAILY SERVICE CHARGES!!!"

 

....or I'll raise the cruise to $2,300 + DSC as NCL would/does.

 

 

[heelfan94]

3 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

If I owned a company that sells a cruise for $2,000 + $250 in DSC ($125 each for a couple), and I see that an increasing percentage of guests are removing the DSC, I'll just increase the cruise to $2,300 and proclaim "NO DAILY SERVICE CHARGES!!!"

 

....or I'll raise the cruise to $2,300 + DSC as NCL would/does.

 

 

Exactly.  If we cruise we are going to pay the same amount whether it's listed as DSC or under cruise fare.  

[LMaxwell]

4 minutes ago, pokerpro5 said:

 

Very few people remove the DSC.  On each cruise I've taken in the DSC era, I've examined the "DSC removal log" near the end of each cruise.  It's typically around 1% of all guests, and I imagine it's even less now because many take the form and don't mail it in.
 

The DSC is separate from the cruise fare to give an artificially low base price listed online.  Take an inside cabin selling for $599 per person.  The DSC is now $101.50.  If it were rolled into the base fare, the cabin would be listed as $700.50.  Which sounds more appealing to the budget-minded cruiser -- $599 or $700?

 

It's a dirty marketing trick, much like resort fees on land.

 

 

The DSC the cruise companies claim is not income or revenue counted towards profits.   If it's not income for them, then they aren't losing anything if the DSC is removed.  I have my doubts as to whether 100% is passed on to eligible staff (also; eligibility requirements, performance to earn, etc.), but even if everyone removed DSC the company is only obligated to pay what is in the contract, and they'd do that whether DSC came in or not.  

 

I agree that resort fees are a dirty marketing trick on land.  But they are advertised as paying for amenities, not as a gratuity or supplement to workers income.  In short, they are a revenue stream for the resort company.  It's smoke and mirrors, but whatever, we all understand it.  It's a non-negotiable fee, but it is also isn't advertised as being the main compensation for employees.  

 

[LMaxwell]

3 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

If I owned a company that sells a cruise for $2,000 + $250 in DSC ($125 each for a couple), and I see that an increasing percentage of guests are removing the DSC, I'll just increase the cruise to $2,300 and proclaim "NO DAILY SERVICE CHARGES!!!"

 

....or I'll raise the cruise to $2,300 + DSC as NCL would/does.

 

 

Hi, I meant to multi-quote and include this post in my response above.  

[LMaxwell]

26 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

 Keep removing those DSCs in the full knowledge your allowing right-thinking cruisers to subsidize your choice.

 

 

 

I see cruise fares as one cruiser subsidizing another.  I don't see how keeping DSC or removing DSC results in one person subsidizing or being subsidized by another though; I've been following the recent path of the conversation and just am not seeing the connection but willing to learn. 

[pokerpro5]

44 minutes ago, cdnsteelman said:

You and your ilk are not worth the effort. People who listen with their mouths can't hear. If it doesn't say anything to you that you're in this with Expat Cruise there's no hope of reason. You're wrong about the DSC, you bluster on to defend your innate cheapness, you don't have clue one about what corporate communications entails, and you think you're the smartest guy in the room. I won't be responding to whatever drivel you serve up next so the last word (or thousands of words, which will more likely be the case, are all yours). Keep removing those DSCs in the full knowledge your allowing right-thinking cruisers to subsidize your choice.

 

When I have the time I'll figure out how to block you and your Expat twin to ensure I don't stumble across your ramblings and feed your trolling in a weak moment in the future. 

 

Just as I expected, a non-answer.

 

Two paragraphs of gibberish instead of answering my simple question as to why you mocked my clear, true, and obvious statement.

 

It doesn't surprise me that you are avoiding backing up your assertion, because you would look like a fool if you attempted it.

 

By the way, look up the definition of "troll".  It seems that you don't understand what one is.

[fshagan]

7 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

...  but it is also isn't advertised as being the main compensation for employees.  

 

NCL has never said it was "main compensation".