Top Tip for the Haven - Be aware of the Tips

[erdoran]

I for one have really struggled with the expectation that the passengers are responsible for NCL staff salary, because that's the reality of the situation. NCL exploits the "tipping expectation" so they can increase profits. But, like amygutman says, if you don't pay them with tips and NCL pays a reasonable salary, then of course cruise fares will increase proportionately, so you are going to pay this, one way or another :>

 

The thing about how hard they work, how helpful they are, etc, etc....there are lots & lots of non-tipped professions that work very hard as well. My husband delivers pre-packaged snack cakes to stores and he works very long hours in terrible weather at times, and he doesn't get tips - nor does he expect them. I work 12-16 hrs days, sometimes 7 days/wk, get paid decently (obviously) and don't expect my customers to tip me, even if I'm up most of the night or spend my weekend working on one of their problems. That's my job, and I'm paid to do that job.

 

IF NCL staff were paid well, then IMHO "they work very hard" is irrelevant; however, that's also moot, because they aren't. And like it or not, either we pay them directly or they are very underpaid.

 

so....it comes out that, in my mind, the cruise fare is the "base amount" of what a cruise REALLY costs. Take that, add DSC, add the OBLIGATORY tips (because they really are obligatory), add the MANDATORY 20% on every drink, spa service, etc (since when are THOSE tips mandatory? only on cruise lines), and it's really all part of the true cost of a cruise. (and that's excluding excursions and all the other $ extra$ items that are being pushed throughout the cruise, which are NOT as mandatory).

 

No, I'm not objecting to tips, because the reality of the situation is that either I tip or the employees don't get paid. I hate the mentality,, I hate that it's pushed onto the pax, but it's part of cruising....

 

PS Way back before Internet, my ex and I were "surprised" by the tip requirement. First cruise we ever took, in the 1980's, there was no Internet and no advance info. Last night of the cruise we were hit with the little envelopes, and our "recommended" tips totaled $300+ - with NO WARNING from our TA or anyone else. No problem if we had known in advance, but that's not a nice surprise!

[NLH Arizona]

I for one have really struggled with the expectation that the passengers are responsible for NCL staff salary, because that's the reality of the situation. NCL exploits the "tipping expectation" so they can increase profits. But, like amygutman says, if you don't pay them with tips and NCL pays a reasonable salary, then of course cruise fares will increase proportionately, so you are going to pay this, one way or another :>

 

Is there proof that NCL isn't using the service charge/tips for crew salary, so they can increase profits? Most cruise lines do this very same thing and have been doing it for more years than I can remember. In the beginning, it was with envelopes and now just automatically charged.

 

On my first cruise, my TA never told me about the tipping, but fortunately I read books about cruising before the cruise and then attended the meeting on the ship that explained everything, including the tips which were given out to the crew in envelopes. If I wouldn't have done these things, I would have been very, very surprised and might not have brought that much cash with me.

[erdoran]

Is there proof that NCL isn't using the service charge/tips for crew salary, so they can increase profits? Most cruise lines do this very same thing and have been doing it for more years than I can remember. In the beginning, it was with envelopes and now just automatically charged.

 

On my first cruise, my TA never told me about the tipping, but fortunately I read books about cruising before the cruise and then attended the meeting on the ship that explained everything, including the tips which were given out to the crew in envelopes. If I wouldn't have done these things, I would have been very, very surprised and might not have brought that much cash with me.

 

I am not saying they are withholding tips, I'm assuming they are giving the crew tips INSTEAD of paying a decent salary. It would be despicable if they underpaid crew AND charged pax mandatory tips which they also kept. But remember - for Haven we pay tips directly to butler, concierge (at least) so we know NCL doesn't touch those.

[NLH Arizona]

I am not saying they are withholding tips, I'm assuming they are giving the crew tips INSTEAD of paying a decent salary. It would be despicable if they underpaid crew AND charged pax mandatory tips which they also kept. But remember - for Haven we pay tips directly to butler, concierge (at least) so we know NCL doesn't touch those.

Sorry, I guess I didn't understand your comment: NCL exploits the "tipping expectation" so they can increase profits.

 

Could you explain how they are increasing profits while exploiting the tipping expectations? Thanks.

 

Most all the mass market cruise lines do the same thing, so something has to be working otherwise they would have all scrapped this policy for a better one.

[erdoran]

Sorry, I guess I didn't understand your comment: NCL exploits the "tipping expectation" so they can increase profits.

 

Could you explain how they are increasing profits while exploiting the tipping expectations? Thanks.

Most all the mass market cruise lines do the same thing, so something has to be working otherwise they would have all scrapped this policy for a better one.

 

Instead of paying their staff a fair salary, they underpay them, and rely on pax to make up the difference. Totally unfair to the staff, because now they can't rely on income, totally unfair to pax because there's an expectation/requirement of several hundred dollars in tips/DSC that's NOT clearly disclosed up front AT TIME OF BOOKING. And even if they see DSC, the extra tips are NOT obvious and if someone isn't relatively savvy, they may also be surprised by the expectation of the additional tips.

 

Cruise fares ARE NOT CHEAP! One would assume when you pay your fare you're done unless you choose to spend extra-and that's no way the truth.

 

DH and I like to go to a resort in the Poconos. Rooms are advertised as "two nights, 3 days, $499 special" - but the final bill (disclosed before committing at least) is over $800!!! Not kidding! they add a 20% "service charge" (formerly was called "gratuity", $25/day or so "resort charge", etc, etc, etc. And the staff is still looking for tips!

 

It's all marketing - as high as fares are, the cruise lines, our Pocono resort, etc, want them to look lower than they really are.

[NLH Arizona]

Instead of paying their staff a fair salary, they underpay them, and rely on pax to make up the difference. Totally unfair to the staff, because now they can't rely on income, totally unfair to pax because there's an expectation/requirement of several hundred dollars in tips/DSC that's NOT clearly disclosed up front AT TIME OF BOOKING. And even if they see DSC, the extra tips are NOT obvious and if someone isn't relatively savvy, they may also be surprised by the expectation of the additional tips.

 

Cruise fares ARE NOT CHEAP! One would assume when you pay your fare you're done unless you choose to spend extra-and that's no way the truth.

 

DH and I like to go to a resort in the Poconos. Rooms are advertised as "two nights, 3 days, $499 special" - but the final bill (disclosed before committing at least) is over $800!!! Not kidding! they add a 20% "service charge" (formerly was called "gratuity", $25/day or so "resort charge", etc, etc, etc. And the staff is still looking for tips!

 

It's all marketing - as high as fares are, the cruise lines, our Pocono resort, etc, want them to look lower than they really are.

I've had to pay resort fees, even though I might not use the facilities and that doesn't sit will with me, but I have no choice.

 

The crew has a contract and they are guaranteed that dollar amount. If there isn't enough money in the gratuities/service charge paid by the passengers, then the cruise line makes up the difference.

 

The way I look at it, we can either pay the DSC/automatic gratuities or we can pay an increased cruise fare by the amount of the DSC/automatic gratuities, because we all know that the cruise lines aren't going to lose those dollars. This is why I get a kick out of some that have issues paying the DSC/automatic gratuities and want the cruise lines to not have them, but they still want the crew to get their contracted rate of pay, because we are going to pay the crew's salaries one way or another, just like every business in the world.

 

Thanks for the great discussion.

[erdoran]

Thanks, NLH - I agree, we are going to pay them one way or another. It's part of the cruise fare, just a well-hidden part :>

[MizDemeanor]

Everyone should just go and enjoy themselves and not nitpick the incidentals, it’s part of the costs of cruising, just like baggage fees on a flight to the ship for a large group of cruise travelers or parking or taxi or hotels. Just figure it in and stop complaining like you’ve been morally wronged for goodness sake!

[yummysbakery]

Just off the jade. Our Butler when receiving his tip thanked us and commented he didn't do much for us and actually said our tip was too much...seriously it definitely wasn't too much....it did make me wonder though what they average in tips if he thought ours was too much lol. In full disclosure he served us breakfast one time and brought us a movie one time delivered our afternoon canapes and serviced the coffee machine. I just automatically budget this in as part of the cost of the cruise.

 

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[RickinNYC]

So. The big question. Is $100 ok for the butler? And what is ok for the concierge?

 

 

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[All-ready2cruise]

So. The big question. Is $100 ok for the butler? And what is ok for the concierge?

 

 

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So, the big answer is... in general the concierge is approximately 60-75% of what you tip your Butler, unless of course, your concierge has been more valuable in his/her efforts to satisfy your every need ... then it's a bit of a conundrum and up to you how you decide what's appropriate.

 

Enjoy your suite and your dilemma.. ;)

[yummysbakery]

So. The big question. Is $100 ok for the butler? And what is ok for the concierge?

 

 

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I think that it depends on how much you use his services and the length of the cruise and the number of people in the cabin. Give what you feel comfortable with. No matter what is said on this thread you can be assured that butlers and concierge have received tips from 0 to skys the limit lol

 

 

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[All-ready2cruise]

Just off the jade. Our Butler when receiving his tip thanked us and commented he didn't do much for us and actually said our tip was too much...seriously it definitely wasn't too much....it did make me wonder though what they average in tips if he thought ours was too much lol. In full disclosure he served us breakfast one time and brought us a movie one time delivered our afternoon canapes and serviced the coffee machine. I just automatically budget this in as part of the cost of the cruise.

 

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Had the same experience on the Star... Cipriano was so grateful for our tip... when questioned (we didn't think our tip was overly extravagant) he indicated that many pax didn't tip much at all, $2/day ... some not at all. I felt badly for him but he seemed quite happy with his lot and very grateful for his tip.

[MizDemeanor]

So. The big question. Is $100 ok for the butler? And what is ok for the concierge?

 

 

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Good questions.

 

I know what I gift at holidays to hairdressers, manicurists, groomers, etc as a for example who we ‘tip’ and already pay for services for throughout the year.

 

I think your butler amount is quite generous and one that I might likely feel comfortable with myself for the services for the duration of a cruise, but I’m quite certain that others mileage will vary. That is why this conveyance is so personalized and individual.

 

I might have an ability and an inclination to be a cheerful sharer and I recognize that we are all different.

 

 

I don’t judge those who begrudge, I just think that the stars don’t align all of us in the universe and that’s Ok too. I do my thing and others do theirs. We all find a way to coexist with differences...there’s plenty of room for everyone on this planet.

[Ironworker808]

So. The big question. Is $100 ok for the butler? And what is ok for the concierge?

 

 

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Every cruiser will be different. Some will never use his/her services, while others will use them extensively.

 

To make things more confusing, there’s no standard like the 15% of food sales used to calculate a servers tip.

 

DW and I have sailed the Haven twice. The first time was a four day, and we didn’t use our butlers services that much. Mostly because it was our first experience in the Haven, and it was our first cruise...ever.

I think we had our ice bucket refilled a couple of evenings, and had breakfast in our room one morning. Pretty sure we tipped him $150.

 

However, our second Haven cruise was a seven day, and we had another couple with us. And whew-boy, did we work his poor soul like a rented mule! Two specialty dining nights we had him serve in the room, breakfast four mornings, and too many room service meals to count. Ice bucket was refilled several time a day (we had complimentary bottles of rum, vodka, and whiskey in the room), and probably a dozen or more little requests between the four of us during the week. He got a grand. I’m guessing it was more than he expected because he still emails me every now and then just to ask how we’re doing, lol.

 

To answer your question, there is no right amount. I’d say it should be whatever you think he was worth. My guideline is, Did your presence make my vacation more enjoyable than if you were not there? If yes, you’re going to know my appreciation. We also tipped the room steward, and two of the Haven bartenders.

[RickinNYC]

Thanks all. I should have worded my question as “$100 as a standard baseline”. I do realize everyone is different.

 

And it’s just my husband and I on a seven day.

 

 

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[jujumal]

I looked it up Cruise Critic recommends $3-$5 a night per person.

[fourofakind]

Wow just wanted to comment I LOVED your video!!!! The Haven was never something I considered before but now I am. Thanks for sharing!

[welove2cruise2014]

I would be incredibly put off by ship staff (Haven or otherwise) that felt the need to tell me that they didn't share in the "gratuity pool". I might be inclined to forego any additional tipping that I may have been prepared to offer.

 

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[buddylover]

If a suite guest is going to ignore the information that is already available (FAQ, for ex), that same guest is going to ignore any additional information that NCL would provide.

 

 

"Why does my free promo cost over $100pp" - didn't read the Terms & Conditions of the promo.

"Why isn't the butler a part of the DSC?" - didn't read the FAQ about Money Matters.

 

Sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment that a guest (suite or otherwise) is to blame for 'ignoring the reading of FAQ's that is already available'. Many folks, myself included, only spend time reading pages and pages of FAQ's if we are searching for something specific....and additional tipping NOT included for Haven suites would probably not even occur to the average person. After all, they pay the tips that NCL requests, why should the Haven be different (from a rookie point of view?). So it would behoove NCL to specifically notify those guests who pay a premium to stay in the Haven regarding who gets what and who doesn't get what from the tips, thus necessitating additional tips!! Not everyone digs as deep as you apparently, reading each and bit of 'fine print' associated with their cabin!....LOL :o

[Two Wheels Only]

So it would behoove NCL to specifically notify those guests who pay a premium to stay in the Haven regarding who gets what and who doesn't get what from the tips, thus necessitating additional tips!! Not everyone digs as deep as you apparently, reading each and bit of 'fine print' associated with their cabin!....LOL :o

So....NCL should put something like

 

"Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge."? It's already there for people to read....if people choose to read it. If people don't read it, should NCL have the concierge recite it on embarkation/disembarkation day?

[$hip$hape]

Sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment that a guest (suite or otherwise) is to blame for 'ignoring the reading of FAQ's that is already available'.

Many folks, myself included, only spend time reading pages and pages of FAQ's if we are searching for something specific....and additional tipping NOT included for Haven suites would probably not even occur to the average person. After all, they pay the tips that NCL requests, why should the Haven be different (from a rookie point of view?).

So it would behoove NCL to specifically notify those guests who pay a premium to stay in the Haven regarding who gets what and who doesn't get what from the tips, thus necessitating additional tips!!

Not everyone digs as deep as you apparently, reading each and bit of 'fine print' associated with their cabin!....LOL :o

 

So....NCL should put something like

"Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge."? It's already there for people to read....if people choose to read it.

If people don't read it, should NCL have the concierge recite it on embarkation/disembarkation day?

IMHO, If one wants to brag about staying in the Haven,

They should leave bundles of gratuities/tips for those who personally served.

Don't let NCL know.

Edited May 22, 2018 by $hip$hape

[BNBR]

So....NCL should put something like

 

"Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge."? It's already there for people to read....if people choose to read it. If people don't read it, should NCL have the concierge recite it on embarkation/disembarkation day?

 

It's there to read on the FAQ. And that is right in the name "Frequently Asked QUESTIONS" - it's a place to look up answers to questions. You don't look up answers to questions that you don't have. I cruise quite a bit and I had not even thought about the tipping in the Haven being different and not part of the DSC - especially since suite guests generally pay a higher DSC to begin with.

 

When you book the cruise and prepay the gratuities or whatever, it would be appropriate to be notified of tipping these staff in the Haven, etc.

[Two Wheels Only]

When you book the cruise and prepay the gratuities or whatever, it would be appropriate to be notified of tipping these staff in the Haven, etc.

 

Let's be honest. If someone booked a suite and was about to pre-pay their DSC, what would their reaction likely be if just before checkout, a disclaimer popped up that read "Oh, btw, the butler and concierge do not benefit from the DSC...you can tip them separately, if you choose."? :confused:

 

If the butler/concierge are a part of the suite DSC, people will complain that they are paying for something that they didn't use ("I made all of my own reservations.....I didn't ask the butler for anything...")

 

If the butler/concierge are not a part of the DSC, people will complain that they are paying a higher DSC plus being pressured to tip the butler/concierge. ("I was bombarded with notifications that the butler/concierge do not benefit from the DSC..." or "Nobody told me that the butler/concierge do not benefit from the DSC because I didn't read it...").

[BNBR]

Let's be honest. If someone booked a suite and was about to pre-pay their DSC, what would their reaction likely be if just before checkout, a disclaimer popped up that read "Oh, btw, the butler and concierge do not benefit from the DSC...you can tip them separately, if you choose."? :confused:

 

If the butler/concierge are a part of the suite DSC, people will complain that they are paying for something that they didn't use ("I made all of my own reservations.....I didn't ask the butler for anything...")

 

If the butler/concierge are not a part of the DSC, people will complain that they are paying a higher DSC plus being pressured to tip the butler/concierge. ("I was bombarded with notifications that the butler/concierge do not benefit from the DSC..." or "Nobody told me that the butler/concierge do not benefit from the DSC because I didn't read it...").

 

Oh, I know EXACTLY why they don't prominently display these details. NCL loves hiding the details. I've pointed this out in the past with several things they conveniently hid and mislead on during the booking process. Why would you put any barrier at checkout that might make someone question their decision? Just let them get on the ship and "surprise!"