Puerto Rico cruise documentation nightmare

[Shmoo here]

Sounds like you didnt read this thread at all and you need to do that before judging people. According to RC website i did have valid documentation. My wife had a valid id and a original government issued birth certificate and there was no mention of this 2010 issue with PR birth certificates either in the RCI website or CBP.

And here you have the problem. The RCI website (or any cruise line website) can only provide guidance - their best information as far as they know it.

 

They are not an official agency, and no one at the cruise line has the authority to say exactly what's valid. That's all up to the CBP people when you board.

[sparks1093]

And here you have the problem. The RCI website (or any cruise line website) can only provide guidance - their best information as far as they know it.

 

They are not an official agency, and no one at the cruise line has the authority to say exactly what's valid. That's all up to the CBP people when you board.

 

That's why the OP was between a real rock and a hard place- neither the RCI website nor the CBP website disclosed the information that they needed. As far as RCI not disclosing the information other cruise lines have no problem having the information on their website and as I demonstrated above they have no problem displaying the information when someone does their online check in and selects birth certificate as an option.

[Shmoo here]

That's why the OP was between a real rock and a hard place- neither the RCI website nor the CBP website disclosed the information that they needed. As far as RCI not disclosing the information other cruise lines have no problem having the information on their website and as I demonstrated above they have no problem displaying the information when someone does their online check in and selects birth certificate as an option.

All I'm saying is no cruise line's ID information is totally correct. Or totally wrong. Yes, some cruise lines continue to have the Puerto Rico birth certificate information on them, but, at least one doesn't. Why? Maybe they felt 7 years after the fact was enough time for the information to be disseminated. Who knows?

 

Yes, "according to RCI her ID was valid". But RCI is not the final determiner as to what's good and what's not.

 

But the bigger issue is the CBP website wiping that information.

 

Maybe OP might have a case against them, but not against RCI.

[Velvetwater]

Sorry for your situation, hopefully there will be lots of other fun family situations for you guys in the future.

 

Now, I may get flack for this but as government IDs and documentation change so frequently in different countries people should only be allowed on ships with a valid passport. Yes its a cost...and yes many US citizens do not have one but if it was passport or nothing (like international flights) lots of ID problems would disappear. Also the cost is minimal if you travel every year.

 

The US cruise industry is the only international travel I have heard of that accepts other ID for closed loop cruises....bar some land travel in certain unions but everyone over here pretty much carries their passport when they leave their country anyway.

 

So in conclusion, I think the industry does carry a little blame here too.

[MicCanberra]

Sorry for your situation, hopefully there will be lots of other fun family situations for you guys in the future.

 

Now, I may get flack for this but as government IDs and documentation change so frequently in different countries people should only be allowed on ships with a valid passport. Yes its a cost...and yes many US citizens do not have one but if it was passport or nothing (like international flights) lots of ID problems would disappear. Also the cost is minimal if you travel every year.

 

The US cruise industry is the only international travel I have heard of that accepts other ID for closed loop cruises....bar some land travel in certain unions but everyone over here pretty much carries their passport when they leave their country anyway.

 

So in conclusion, I think the industry does carry a little blame here too.

I agree, closed loops or not any cruise in our waters require passports even if they are just visiting on e international port.

[sparks1093]

All I'm saying is no cruise line's ID information is totally correct. Or totally wrong. Yes, some cruise lines continue to have the Puerto Rico birth certificate information on them, but, at least one doesn't. Why? Maybe they felt 7 years after the fact was enough time for the information to be disseminated. Who knows?

 

Yes, "according to RCI her ID was valid". But RCI is not the final determiner as to what's good and what's not.

 

But the bigger issue is the CBP website wiping that information.

 

Maybe OP might have a case against them, but not against RCI.

 

I don't think anyone is looking for a case per se but I do think under the circumstances that as a minimum RCI should refund the cruise fare as an act of customer good will.

[sparks1093]

Sorry for your situation, hopefully there will be lots of other fun family situations for you guys in the future.

 

Now, I may get flack for this but as government IDs and documentation change so frequently in different countries people should only be allowed on ships with a valid passport. Yes its a cost...and yes many US citizens do not have one but if it was passport or nothing (like international flights) lots of ID problems would disappear. Also the cost is minimal if you travel every year.

 

The US cruise industry is the only international travel I have heard of that accepts other ID for closed loop cruises....bar some land travel in certain unions but everyone over here pretty much carries their passport when they leave their country anyway.

 

So in conclusion, I think the industry does carry a little blame here too.

 

I won't even try to get into the travel that can be done within the Schengen area:) but documentation requirements actually change rather infrequently. The US cruise industry has nothing to do with the closed loop exception, this was enacted in the DHS regulations when DHS determined that a US citizen on a closed loop cruise poses a low risk to the national security.

[pms4104]

I won't even try to get into the travel that can be done within the Schengen area:) but documentation requirements actually change rather infrequently. The US cruise industry has nothing to do with the closed loop exception, this was enacted in the DHS regulations when DHS determined that a US citizen on a closed loop cruise poses a low risk to the national security.

If I recall correctly, in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the US Govt planned to tighten up on doc requirements for entry into the country ... the WHTI is, in part, a response to lobbying from the cruiselines who claimed that the cost of passports would deter travelers, and they wouldn't be able to fill their ships. Pretty simplistic explanation ... but not entirely false.

[sparks1093]

If I recall correctly, in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the US Govt planned to tighten up on doc requirements for entry into the country ... the WHTI is, in part, a response to lobbying from the cruiselines who claimed that the cost of passports would deter travelers, and they wouldn't be able to fill their ships. Pretty simplistic explanation ... but not entirely false.

 

Many people and organizations provided input into the regulations since by law the public must be given time to do so. Had the DHS reached a different conclusion regarding closed loop cruises (that US citizens pose a low risk to the national security) I doubt that the exception would exist regardless of the cruise line's view (and the closed loop exception isn't the only exception to using a passport, there are 11 others IIRC).

[sail7seas]

This whole iD thing seems so simple.... time and again we read of one person or another who loses out on their cruise, yet, others still refuse to get and keep passports current. They seem to be rolling the dice, will they be allowed to board. WhY? Does a week go by without someone posting tthey are worried they might not have proper ID but yet they still won't get a passport. Their choice, I know, but how many times do they have to read about a missed cruise and lots of lost money in those non-refundable circumtsances before they break down and geta passport??? Unless they are not eligible to get one for some reason?

 

If they are going to keep traveling internationally, sooner or later they will have to get a passport, why not now?

Edited December 25, 2017 by sail7seas

[sparks1093]

If they are going to keep traveling internationally, sooner or later they will have to get a passport, why not now?

 

Can't speak for everyone, and I know that you'll pooh-pooh my answer, but passports do expire. While we knew we wanted to travel internationally someday we had no idea when we first started cruising when that day would be. Turned out that day came in 2015 and the passports we obtained then are good until 2025. Had we gotten passports when we first started cruising we would be renewing them next year. I know that doesn't matter to a lot of people but to my frugal Vermont nature it would have been a waste. (And not everyone will continue to travel internationally for one reason or another.)

[sail7seas]

Can't speak for everyone, and I know that you'll pooh-pooh my answer, but passports do expire. While we knew we wanted to travel internationally someday we had no idea when we first started cruising when that day would be. Turned out that day came in 2015 and the passports we obtained then are good until 2025. Had we gotten passports when we first started cruising we would be renewing them next year. I know that doesn't matter to a lot of people but to my frugal Vermont nature it would have been a waste. (And not everyone will continue to travel internationally for one reason or another.)

 

 

I don't think I have ever pooh poohed any post of yours, and I am not about to sttart now. :) If I have done a pooh,,pooh, i don't remember and I apologize.:o

[MicCanberra]

I suppose it is very different for us in Australia (compared to the US at least) as you need a passport if you want to travel anywhere outside the country.

[sparks1093]

I don't think I have ever pooh poohed any post of yours, and I am not about to sttart now. :) If I have done a pooh,,pooh, i don't remember and I apologize.:o

 

It may have been unintentional but at one point in one of these debates you said you'd never heard a reason for not getting a passport that you gave any value to and I know that I have shared with you the reason why we did not get passports when we started cruising ($850 for passports for the family for a 4 day cruise just didn't seem like a wise investment to me).

[sail7seas]

It may have been unintentional but at one point in one of these debates you said you'd never heard a reason for not getting a passport that you gave any value to and I know that I have shared with you the reason why we did not get passports when we started cruising ($850 for passports for the family for a 4 day cruise just didn't seem like a wise investment to me).

 

 

While I do not sprecifically recall that, I'll take your word for it. if you will 'take' the apology I offered above .

[sail7seas]

I suppose it is very different for us in Australia (compared to the US at least) as you need a passport if you want to travel anywhere outside the country.

 

deleeted

Edited December 26, 2017 by sail7seas

[Essiesmom]

I consider any travel I do outside US borders to be international, including the Caribbean, Canada, Mexico... I got my first passport in 1971 on the suggestion that I might go to Europe. I didn’t on the lifetime of that passport, although I did do four cruises, a Caribbean vacation and a Mexico vacation. When I got orders to Germany in 1976 I renewed it, even though I didn’t need one. I didn’t actually need it until my trip to China in 1983. I have never let it expire. EM

[Netopr]

I consider any travel I do outside US borders to be international, including the Caribbean, Canada, Mexico... I got my first passport in 1971 on the suggestion that I might go to Europe. I didn’t on the lifetime of that passport, although I did do four cruises, a Caribbean vacation and a Mexico vacation. When I got orders to Germany in 1976 I renewed it, even though I didn’t need one. I didn’t actually need it until my trip to China in 1983. I have never let it expire. EM

 

Good for you! Unfortunately we are not experienced travelers and we made a mistake not noticing that one of our passports expired until the last minute and thats why we decided to go with plan b. We are human and make mistakes. After this experience, we have identified many mistakes we made. Some are:

 

- not renewing passport one week prior our cruise

- not verifying passport expiration date earlier

- trusting RCI customer service, website and policy

- not doing research on birth certificates expirations

- trusting Puerto Rico birth certificates in general...

 

I think the best thing the US could do for traveling is to enforce passports everywhere you go, including domestic flights.

[MicCanberra]

 

I think the best thing the US could do for traveling is to enforce passports everywhere you go, including domestic flights.

Good point but perhaps not the domestic flights, that may be overkill..

[lbjen]

Good point but perhaps not the domestic flights, that may be overkill..

 

I was thinking the same, but with this whole Real ID thing, the fact that we have people traveling with IDs from so many different government entities rather than just using a single federal ID such as a passport, maybe it's not such a bad idea. After all, you still have alternative options to flying if the idea of having to get a federal ID to do it bothers you so much.

[MicCanberra]

I was thinking the same, but with this whole Real ID thing, the fact that we have people traveling with IDs from so many different government entities rather than just using a single federal ID such as a passport, maybe it's not such a bad idea. After all, you still have alternative options to flying if the idea of having to get a federal ID to do it bothers you so much.

I suppose you are right but realistically, domestic flights generally only need a current photo ID (drivers licence) for proof you are who you claim to be.

[sparks1093]

While I do not sprecifically recall that, I'll take your word for it. if you will 'take' the apology I offered above .

 

Of course I do and acknowledge that I may have read more into it than was intended. I do appreciate the civil debates:).

[sparks1093]

I consider any travel I do outside US borders to be international, including the Caribbean, Canada, Mexico... I got my first passport in 1971 on the suggestion that I might go to Europe. I didn’t on the lifetime of that passport, although I did do four cruises, a Caribbean vacation and a Mexico vacation. When I got orders to Germany in 1976 I renewed it, even though I didn’t need one. I didn’t actually need it until my trip to China in 1983. I have never let it expire. EM

 

Yep, any country outside of the US is international except for US territories. Thing is that how one travels to those countries matters in what document one needs to perform the travel. If I fly to Canada I can only do so with a passport. If I drive up (which makes more sense since it's only 8 miles from my front door;)) I have choices other than a passport and if the only international travel I'm ever going to do is that 8 mile drive then it would make more sense for me to have a passport card or EDL. If the only international travel I'm ever going to do is closed loop cruises the same thing applies (and yes, there are people who can only travel that way). We all have different travel patterns and some have viable options when it comes to travel documents, it's really as simple as that. I'm going to choose differently than you, and you are going to choose differently from me.

[sparks1093]

Good for you! Unfortunately we are not experienced travelers and we made a mistake not noticing that one of our passports expired until the last minute and thats why we decided to go with plan b. We are human and make mistakes. After this experience, we have identified many mistakes we made. Some are:

 

- not renewing passport one week prior our cruise

- not verifying passport expiration date earlier

- trusting RCI customer service, website and policy

- not doing research on birth certificates expirations

- trusting Puerto Rico birth certificates in general...

 

I think the best thing the US could do for traveling is to enforce passports everywhere you go, including domestic flights.

 

I agree with everything except the last line:).

[LuckyZ]

Royal Caribbean really needs to do a better job with its website documentation FAQs.

 

When it comes to documentation/visa/passport requirements we NEVER rely on the cruise line website or on what the cruise line CSR's tell us. Nor do we rely on any travel agent.

 

We have learned over the years to review this on our own and ensure that we have the required paperwork. We do compare it to the cruise line data but we certainly do no use the latter as the test of what is really required..

 

Agree with above posts. Not to pile on but we've learned after 15 cruises that

(A) Passports are really the only valid forms of ID if you want to prevent identification issues with cruise lines

(B) As a general rule, passports should have at least six months of validity when traveling internationally. Most countries will not permit a traveler to enter their country unless the passport is set to expire at least six months after the final day of travel.

Note: There has been a lot of threads posted over the years about needing passports and I "always" have sided on people getting a passport. It's not cheap but it's that one time that costs you a lot of money because you're stranded somewhere that makes you regret your decision.

Edited December 26, 2017 by LuckyZ