Puerto Rico cruise documentation nightmare

[sail7seas]

As far as I know there is no new style passports, it's the birth certificate that was the issue. If OP's passports were still unexpired they would have had no issue getting on the ship. When they discovered that their passport was expired they switched to plan B, which was to use birth certificates. Unfortunately under Puerto Rican law any passport issued before 2010 is no longer valid. If OP had checked the RCI or CBP website then they would have found no information indicating that there was a problem with their birth certificate's validity, which is the fly in the ointment. I agree with your earlier post about personal responsibility and all, and ultimately it is the passenger's responsibility to make sure they have the correct documentation but one would think that the information they need would be readily available.

 

Yes, I misspoke and said psssports when I meant BC's good you understood what I meant. :)

 

 

In post #72 above I got it more accurate and said B. C. :)

[Netopr]

Good point LH, :)

 

 

Adult people customarily are responsible for their own needs. If someone wishes to travel, one would expect they can find ttheir way to getting necesssary information to plan safe and successful travel for themselves and their family. Does no one get the conc ept of self-responsibility anymore? It is not always up to someone else to take care of everything for us. Sometimes it is our responsibility and sometimes we must individually take the blame for what might go wrong. JMO

 

OP, you did the right thing, you came to a forum full of people who aggregately have done a great deal of travel and cruising an d you asked. You have gotten answers, now you decide what to do. Please let us know what you decide

 

My plan is to send a notarized letter to RCI explaining everything, hopefully they will provide a full or partial refund or credit even if they say its my responsibility on their policy. I will also recommend they add a note on their website when you select that you are using a PR issued certificate. My family booked 8 rooms so well see if they care.

 

Other than that, from now on i will only trust passports and passport cards, never a BC from PR for traveling.

 

I will also create a video explaining this issue on YouTube for those Puertorricans living in the mainland and planning to book a cruise to the Caribbean. I may not explain my story there...

 

Thanks for all the replies, i wish my other hobby forums would get so many responses like this one.

[Netopr]

As far as I know there is no new style passports, it's the birth certificate that was the issue. If OP's passports were still unexpired they would have had no issue getting on the ship. When they discovered that their passport was expired they switched to plan B, which was to use birth certificates. Unfortunately under Puerto Rican law any passport issued before 2010 is no longer valid. If OP had checked the RCI or CBP website then they would have found no information indicating that there was a problem with their birth certificate's validity, which is the fly in the ointment. I agree with your earlier post about personal responsibility and all, and ultimately it is the passenger's responsibility to make sure they have the correct documentation but one would think that the information they need would be readily available.

 

Correct, this issue is not noted on RCI or CBP websites and i called RCI to ask if i could use a PR government issued birth certificate and they said yes as long as its government issued. They didnt mention the 2010+ requirement.

[NLH Arizona]

Correct, this issue is not noted on RCI or CBP websites and i called RCI to ask if i could use a PR government issued birth certificate and they said yes as long as its government issued. They didnt mention the 2010+ requirement.

Isn't it up to the individual to keep their papers up to date? If BCs were update, each individual should be held responsible to get their updated one.

 

Did you ask if they would accept a BC before the 2010 requirement?

[Netopr]

Isn't it up to the individual to keep their papers up to date? If BCs were update, each individual should be held responsible to get their updated one.

 

Did you ask if they would accept a BC before the 2010 requirement?

 

I didnt know that BC where updated in 2010, i have mentioned many times here. I moved to the mainland in 2008 to work for the government. I didnt get notified or read about it when it happened.

 

Should i ask if they accept BC for all years since i was born?

[NLH Arizona]

I didnt know that BC where updated in 2010, i have mentioned many times here. I moved to the mainland in 2008 to work for the government. I didnt get notified or read about it when it happened.

 

Should i ask if they accept BC for all years since i was born?

Knowing how important BCs are, I'm surprised that your family that still lives there never mentioned it.

[sail7seas]

My plan is to send a notarized letter to RCI explaining everything, hopefully they will provide a full or partial refund or credit even if they say its my responsibility on their policy. I will also recommend they add a note on their website when you select that you are using a PR issued certificate. My family booked 8 rooms so well see if they care. No, osrry but it is nott likedly thdy care your family booked 8 cabins.

 

Other than that, from now on i will only trust passports and passport cards, never a BC from PR for traveling.

 

I will also create a video explaining this issue on YouTube for those Puertorricans living in the mainland and planning to book a cruise to the Caribbean. I may not explain my story there...

 

Thanks for all the replies, i wish my other hobby forums would get so many responses like this one.

 

 

In What way do you think notarizing your letter is going to help you? do you undersand what a nottary on a document means and why some ahve to be notarized but your letter would not fit into tthat category. A re you by chance confusing your terminology and meant to say certiied, mail, retrurn receiptt requestted? where would you go to find your notary? Do you happen to know a notary public? They are very common and there are many of them pariticularly around law offices. I suspect you might be thinking certified mail. Whta is the goal you wish to achieve with your notary/

 

 

Don't get your hopes up too high to tthink RCI is going to refund you anything. Maybe some of the ;posts here explained to you why they are not wrong to refuse in the opinion of many very experienced travelers/ cruisers. who post here.

[sail7seas]

Sorry, but no, I do not think they care your family booked 8 cabins. they dont ' care your family did not see to it you knew your dw's B.C. was invalid.

[ptf2009]

I feel so badly for you that you missed your family reunion vacation as well as your money invested in your trip. It's difficult to even imagine the heartache when we fellow CCer's count the months, weeks and then days until our next cruise. By you sharing your misfortune you have probably saved (or will) someone else from this unfortunate situation.

 

One thing I would like to share: There are ways to get a passport on the same day. You just have to go to the closest city that processes them. Of course the cost is higher, but it is possible for those who realize too late that their passports have expired or if they can't find it (two days before the cruise, like my DH:().

[sail7seas]

I feel so badly for you that you missed your family reunion vacation as well as your money invested in your trip. It's difficult to even imagine the heartache when we fellow CCer's count the months, weeks and then days until our next cruise. By you sharing your misfortune you have probably saved (or will) someone else from this unfortunate situation.

 

One thing I would like to share: There are ways to get a passport on the same day. You just have to go to the closest city that processes them. Of course the cost is higher, but it is possible for those who realize too late that their passports have expired or if they can't find it (two days before the cruise, like my DH:().

 

 

Given the OP lives in Maryland, I inquired about how far from D.C. he is located? Is it remotely possible he could acutally have gotten appointment at State Deparment in W, D.C and gotten the passport renewed on the spot?

 

[/i]I don't believe he responded to that post.

 

If a consulate abroad can do it, can't the State Departrment?

[sparks1093]

Isn't it up to the individual to keep their papers up to date? If BCs were update, each individual should be held responsible to get their updated one.

 

Did you ask if they would accept a BC before the 2010 requirement?

 

How is someone supposed to ask if they have no idea they have to ask? The RCI website should mention this.

[sparks1093]

In What way do you think notarizing your letter is going to help you? do you undersand what a nottary on a document means and why some ahve to be notarized but your letter would not fit into tthat category. A re you by chance confusing your terminology and meant to say certiied, mail, retrurn receiptt requestted? where would you go to find your notary? Do you happen to know a notary public? They are very common and there are many of them pariticularly around law offices. I suspect you might be thinking certified mail. Whta is the goal you wish to achieve with your notary/

 

 

Don't get your hopes up too high to tthink RCI is going to refund you anything. Maybe some of the ;posts here explained to you why they are not wrong to refuse in the opinion of many very experienced travelers/ cruisers. who post here.

 

I think at least from a customer service perspective they might get a refund because RCI doesn't mention this exclusion at all on their website and other cruise lines do. I have no idea if that would be pertinent in an arbitration hearing but I would at least run it by an attorney.

[sparks1093]

Given the OP lives in Maryland, I inquired about how far from D.C. he is located? Is it remotely possible he could acutally have gotten appointment at State Deparment in W, D.C and gotten the passport renewed on the spot?

 

[/i]I don't believe he responded to that post.

 

If a consulate abroad can do it, can't the State Departrment?

 

I believe that before a passport can be issued the OP would need to get updated birth certificates and that could take more than a day or two.

[sail7seas]

How is someone supposed to ask if they have no idea they have to ask? The RCI website should mention this.

 

In this 'information age', it is easy to get almost any info one would legitimately have a need for. I often joke that googgle knows everything, but they really do. :

 

I wonder now that this sadly has happened to OP< has he done a google search? did he research yet to see if he had asked,what would he have learned?

 

"google: Is a birth certificate issued in 2000 from PuertoRrico val id as ID to board a cruise ship in U.S. port?

 

I wonder what would pop up?

 

How about: birth certificate, issued in Puerto rico, 2000 validity issues?

 

'I'm back,,,, it didn't take but a minute to find this useful link re: Puerto Rico birth certificates .

https://usvitalrecords.org/puerto-rico/birth-certificate.html?gclid=C

 

 

 

 

Google: Can someone renew U.S. Passport in person, same day at U.s. State Department in Wash. D.C?

 

 

 

Is it not the responsibility of the cruise line to research every conceiveable issue. it is for the traveler to do.

Edited December 22, 2017 by sail7seas

[sparks1093]

In this 'information age', it is easy to get almost any info one would legitimately have a need for. I often joke that googgle knows everything, but they really do. :

 

I wonder now that this sadly has happened to OP< has he done a google search? did he research yet to see if he had asked,what would he have learned?

 

"google: Is a birth certificate issued in 2005 from PuertoRrico val idl as ID to board a cruise ship in U.S. port?

 

I wonder what would pop up?

 

How about: birth certificate, issued in Puerto rico, 2001 validity issues?

 

Why worry about google when the company you are doing business with should be able to tell you? How many times have people on this very site said "check the cruise line website" or "ask the cruise line" when the question of birth certificates come up? Pretty worthless advice if they can't be counted on to provide the right answer. This is a unique situation because I know of no other state or territory that has invalidated every birth certificate issued before a certain time.

[sail7seas]

Hi Sparks

 

I would trust reading multiple links from google and doing additional searches if appropriate over tak ing the word of a cruise line telephone rep

Edited December 22, 2017 by sail7seas

[cruisemom42]

I think some are being unnecessarily hard on the OP. Yes, I agree he made a mistake or two, and I don't think the cruise line owes him a refund necessarily. But the situation wasn't very clear either.

 

Imagine if you were born in a state in the US where you no longer lived, and that this state decided to invalidate all birth certificates issued before 2000. Let's say you never heard anything about this happening because you haven't lived in that state in forever. Also, let's say you've read repeatedly that all one needs to cruise on a closed-loop cruise in the Caribbean is a valid birth certificate and a drivers license. You know from past experience that your birth certificate is an original or a valid copy because prior to 2000 you used it to obtain a passport.

 

Now -- how would you even THINK to Google whether your BC issued in XXXX was valid? Has this ever been suggested as a standard procedure for everyone traveling with a BC for id? Does anyone here routinely do that, just on the off-chance that their state has invalidated their previous valid document?

 

A good travel agent might have caught it. A family member might have mentioned it. The OP could have randomly read about it. RC perhaps should have posted it on their site. But none of these things happened.

 

But to beat up the poster about not checking the validity of what was previously known to be a valid BC is kind of uncalled for, IMO.

 

Personally, I always use a passport for travel, knowing it is as near to a universally accepted form of id as can be had. This just confirms that having had that document would've avoided a huge amount of remorse.

 

I thank the OP for posting his experience because it clearly brings new information to some. Including me -- as much as I read travel info, I had not ever heard about this change in BC in Puerto Rico.

[sail7seas]

I think some are being unnecessarily hard on the OP. Yes, I agree he made a mistake or two, and I don't think the cruise line owes him a refund necessarily. But the situation wasn't very clear either.

 

Imagine if you were born in a state in the US where you no longer lived, and that this state decided to invalidate all birth certificates issued before 2000. Let's say you never heard anything about this happening because you haven't lived in that state in forever. Also, let's say you've read repeatedly that all one needs to cruise on a closed-loop cruise in the Caribbean is a valid birth certificate and a drivers license. You know from past experience that your birth certificate is an original or a valid copy because prior to 2000 you used it to obtain a passport.

 

Now -- how would you even THINK to Google whether your BC issued in XXXX was valid? Has this ever been suggested as a standard procedure for everyone traveling with a BC for id? Does anyone here routinely do that, just on the off-chance that their state has invalidated their previous valid document?

 

A good travel agent might have caught it. A family member might have mentioned it. The OP could have randomly read about it. RC perhaps should have posted it on their site. But none of these things happened.

 

But to beat up the poster about not checking the validity of what was previously known to be a valid BC is kind of uncalled for, IMO.

 

Personally, I always use a passport for travel, knowing it is as near to a universally accepted form of id as can be had. This just confirms that having had that document would've avoided a huge amount of remorse.

 

I thank the OP for posting his experience because it clearly brings new information to some. Including me -- as much as I read travel info, I had not ever heard about this change in BC in Puerto Rico.

 

 

 

How about the failure to renew t he passport? Is that the fault oft he cruise line, the terriitory of Puerto rico? Or? .....

[njhorseman]

Given the OP lives in Maryland, I inquired about how far from D.C. he is located? Is it remotely possible he could acutally have gotten appointment at State Deparment in W, D.C and gotten the passport renewed on the spot?

 

[/i]I don't believe he responded to that post.

 

If a consulate abroad can do it, can't the State Departrment?

 

Not at the State Department, but at the Washington, DC Passport Agency office on 19th St, NW. There are 26 passport agency offices. You can find them here:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/where-to-apply/passport-agencies.html

Edited December 22, 2017 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

I think at least from a customer service perspective they might get a refund because RCI doesn't mention this exclusion at all on their website and other cruise lines do. I have no idea if that would be pertinent in an arbitration hearing but I would at least run it by an attorney.

 

It might be worth spending a few dollars to have an attorney write a letter to Royal Caribbean. Despite the contractual provision stating that it's the passenger's responsibility to make sure they have the proper travel documents, the fact that the cruise line's website does provide detailed information about required documentation might make for an argument that a reasonable person should expect to be able to rely on the cruise line's written advice.

Edited December 22, 2017 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

I believe that before a passport can be issued the OP would need to get updated birth certificates and that could take more than a day or two.

 

There's nothing to indicate that a new birth certificate would be required. A passport, issued less than 15 years before the date of application, is the only documentation required to be submitted with the application per the passport renewal application instructions and the State Department's website.

 

That having been said, this whole thread is about an example of websites, including government websites, not having entirely accurate information.

[Cyber Kat]

This is absolutely bizarre. I have heard of currency being withdrawn from circulation, never heard of obsolete birth certificates. Good thing your wife isn't running for president.

 

 

My husband was born in Jersey City, NJ and they had the same issue. Everyone who was born there before a certain year (I forget what year). His birth certificate was basically useless. He had to get a new one to send with his passport renewal.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[MicCanberra]

How about the failure to renew t he passport? Is that the fault oft he cruise line, the terriitory of Puerto rico? Or? .....

I would think that anyone contemplating travelling overseas (internationally) would make sure that they have a passport that was vaild.

[sparks1093]

How about the failure to renew t he passport? Is that the fault oft he cruise line, the terriitory of Puerto rico? Or? .....

 

Yes, that was an oversight on the passenger's part, but it's also an oversight that anyone could make.

[sparks1093]

There's nothing to indicate that a new birth certificate would be required. A passport, issued less than 15 years before the date of application, is the only documentation required to be submitted with the application per the passport renewal application instructions and the State Department's website.

 

That having been said, this whole thread is about an example of websites, including government websites, not having entirely accurate information.

 

It would fly in the face of logic for the State Department not to require an updated birth certificate since the previous one may have been the result of fraud and by state law is no longer valid. But we are talking a government operation here so logic may not play too large a part in it;).