Formal nights in Europe - leave the tux at home

[RocketMan275]

If, in fact, you do dress for dinner, I hope you enjoy it - but the term “fashion police” still refers to a fictitious group which has no existence - except in the imagination of people who do not like to dress.

Oh, the fashion police do exist. I've read cruise critic posts where passengers stated they would not allow someone to be seated at their table who did not meet their definition of appropriate attire.

I've also seen posts where passengers claimed to have escorted the matre'd through the MDR pointing out violations of the dress code. These are certainly examples of passengers operating as fashion police.

[navybankerteacher]

Oh, the fashion police do exist. I've read cruise critic posts where passengers stated they would not allow someone to be seated at their table who did not meet their definition of appropriate attire.

I've also seen posts where passengers claimed to have escorted the matre'd through the MDR pointing out violations of the dress code. These are certainly examples of passengers operating as fashion police.

 

If you have really read (and believed) such absurd posts, I can see why you might believe the “fashion police” exist —- at least in the minds of the posters.

 

However, these not actually “examples of passengers operating as fashion police” —- but rather examples of people wanting to believe in the existence of “fashion police”.

[iancal]

Each to their own. If people want to dress up in tuxes, gowns then more power to them if they derive enjoyment from it.

 

We gave it up several years ago when we retired and changed our travel habits. Traded in our 26" bags for carry on only with a max weight of 7-8KG.

 

The other reason was formal nights themselves. For us they became very old. Food and service offerings declined to the point where we no longer felt it was very special. We were no longer willing to pack formal clothes for a few hours out of a ten or fourteen day cruise-especially shoes. It seemed rather pointless to both of us. Airline baggage fees were not an issue for us since we get free bags on a number of airlines. We felt a need to only pack and carry what we could each easily physically handle without any assistance-partly because of the way we travel.

 

Times have changed. Cruisers have changed, cruise lines have changed.

Edited July 18, 2018 by iancal

[Cruise Junky]

If you have really read (and believed) such absurd posts, I can see why you might believe the “fashion police” exist —- at least in the minds of the posters.

 

However, these not actually “examples of passengers operating as fashion police” —- but rather examples of people wanting to believe in the existence of “fashion police”.

 

I know the poster he's talking about...pretty sure it happened. It fits with the guy's general behaviour.

[taxmantoo]

It's 2018,not 1900.

Exactly ... and one would think people have learned to dress better by now ! If you have a tux, wear it.

[iancal]

We so no harm if some people want to do lets pretend or mr. dressup. Whatever makes them happy. We really do not care what others wear. We do not control it so we don't fret over it. The cruise line on board team make the decision as to what is or is not within their guidelines. We see lots of variance in this regard.

[RocketMan275]

If you have really read (and believed) such absurd posts, I can see why you might believe the “fashion police” exist —- at least in the minds of the posters.

 

However, these not actually “examples of passengers operating as fashion police” —- but rather examples of people wanting to believe in the existence of “fashion police”.

 

I can assure you that my reports of what I read were accurate. Those were reports of actions taken by passengers to install themselves as "fashion police".

 

What else would you call it if a passenger told a waiter that he could not seat someone at their table because that person did not satisfy their interpretation of the dress code? That passenger was certainly acting as an enforcer of the dress code.

[navybankerteacher]

I know the poster he's talking about...pretty sure it happened. It fits with the guy's general behaviour.

 

Sure what happened? That there was a post (which is what “he” was talking about), or that someone actually mouthed off the way “he” reported seeing a post that claimed that someone did?

 

Second or third hand reports getting to be accepted as fact is what urban myth is all about.

[iancal]

Why get upset about an interfering busybody? You will find them everywhere. Along with sidewalk superintendents. I do not think that even they realize just how rude and obnoxious their comments or actions can be.

 

Just ignore them. Easier to smile and be somewhat amused than get bent out of shape by them. Just decide not to let one of them ruin you day. It is just the way they are so accept it and move on.

[Sea girl 23]

Oh, the fashion police do exist. I've read cruise critic posts where passengers stated they would not allow someone to be seated at their table who did not meet their definition of appropriate attire.

I've also seen posts where passengers claimed to have escorted the matre'd through the MDR pointing out violations of the dress code. These are certainly examples of passengers operating as fashion police.

 

Some Googling of "Holland America,Fashion Police" gets some..how shall we say..interesting results.:D This is a longtime thing.

[RocketMan275]

Sure what happened? That there was a post (which is what “he” was talking about), or that someone actually mouthed off the way “he” reported seeing a post that claimed that someone did?

 

Second or third hand reports getting to be accepted as fact is what urban myth is all about.

 

Regrettably, the persons involved did not post video to youtube so their word is all we have to go on. Those were first hand, 'I did it', confessions posted by cruise critic members with thousands of posts. I'm willing to accept their word. Why won't you?

 

BTW, I'm willing to admit that the 'fashion police' is a small and decreasing minority and that one is very unlikely to encounter the situations I described. That isn't the same thing as saying that they don't exist.

Edited July 18, 2018 by RocketMan275

[rsldonk]

Exactly ... and one would think people have learned to dress better by now ! If you have a tux, wear it.

 

 

 

And this right here is the heart of the issue. I have a single sports coat. I hate wearing it and bought it a few years ago because I have a paper at an important conference and my advisor insisted I wear it. Since then, I’ve wore it exactly 5 times. The good news was it was only about $100 or so. Why would I spent over $1000 or more on a tuxedo that I have never had occasion to wear since my high school prom? But yeah, I’ll take the jacket because it goes well with my kilt and formal sporran and I have rare enough occasion to even wear that.

 

 

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[navybankerteacher]

I can assure you that my reports of what I read were accurate. Those were reports of actions taken by passengers to install themselves as "fashion police".

 

What else would you call it if a passenger told a waiter that he could not seat someone at their table because that person did not satisfy their interpretation of the dress code? That passenger was certainly acting as an enforcer of the dress code.

 

Your “reports of what ... read” - that is what I mean by SECOND HAND . I am not saying that you did not read those reports - but that they are hearsay - and would not be acceptable as any evidence. I do not deny that there might be the occasional idiot who sneers about what someone might wear —but I am saying that, aside from the rare jerk, there is no “fashion police” — but I do believe that there are many people who lack self-confidence and who prefer to blame their angst about their own appearance on an imaginary bunch of loud mouth critics.

 

There is frequent mention of “fashion police” - but I have yet to hear or see anyone acting like one,

[Fouremco]

I suppose it all comes down to your personal definition of "fashion police". My understanding from my years on this and other boards is that the term refers to posters who criticize those who have the temerity to dress in a fashion not up to the standards of the fashion police member. These standards frequently have nothing to do with the actual standards established by the cruise line in question. Expressing one's personal preference in dress or bemoaning the lowering of standards is quite acceptable, but there's a fine line between that and criticizing others when their dress complies with the standards.

 

As for passengers taking it upon themselves to help enforce ships' standards while aboard, I've not witnessed it personally but I've no doubt that he happens on the rare occasion. For example, anyone who spends time on the Celebrity board would be familiar with one individual in particular who has reported having done so on several occasions and I have no doubt that he would. This is, nevertheless, only a minuscule part of the general activity of the fashion police, who are far more comfortable hiding behind their keyboards than actually confronting someone in person.

 

That's just my read, and maybe others have a very different interpretation of "fashion police". Personally, I'm all in favour of wearing what you want, as long as it meets the cruise line's standards, but someone wearing shorts in the MDR won't ruin my cruise.

[RocketMan275]

Your “reports of what ... read” - that is what I mean by SECOND HAND . I am not saying that you did not read those reports - but that they are hearsay - and would not be acceptable as any evidence. I do not deny that there might be the occasional idiot who sneers about what someone might wear —but I am saying that, aside from the rare jerk, there is no “fashion police” — but I do believe that there are many people who lack self-confidence and who prefer to blame their angst about their own appearance on an imaginary bunch of loud mouth critics.

 

Are you saying that the "fashion police" are the creation of people who "lack self-confidence" and who are anxious about their own appearance? I thought you avoided/condemned abusive or insulting language.

 

I note in passing that another definition of "angst" is: a feeling of persistent worry about something trivial. Something 'trivial' would certainly include how one dresses for dinner.

Edited July 18, 2018 by RocketMan275

[wales4ever]

Strange - I was on the sailing the week previous, June 24 -1 July. Myself and many others had dinner suits on. (tuxedos to the Americans)

[sammiedawg]

This thread is quite the throwback in time. In the real world, almost all US private clubs for boating, golf, social life, swimming dispensed with formal dress eons ago. Country club casual is where it is. People look very nice and they would laugh at the idea of formal wear.

Even prom kids don’t wear tuxedos or evening gowns any more. I had two brand new prom “gowns” with tags on, purchased fifteen years ago but never worn. I tried to donate them to a local group that recycles prom clothing and they declined the donation. They said kids would not wear them.

Other than a Holland America cruise, I haven’t see tuxedos in forever.

[Sea girl 23]

^And only occasionally on HAL cruises-and on some ships more than others allegedly/apparently.

[*Miss G*]

Strange - I was on the sailing the week previous, June 24 -1 July. Myself and many others had dinner suits on. (tuxedos to the Americans)

Strange to me, too, because that's not been my experience either. It just goes to show how different each sailing can be.

[*Miss G*]

This thread is quite the throwback in time. In the real world, almost all US private clubs for boating, golf, social life, swimming dispensed with formal dress eons ago. Country club casual is where it is. People look very nice and they would laugh at the idea of formal wear.

Even prom kids don’t wear tuxedos or evening gowns any more. I had two brand new prom “gowns” with tags on, purchased fifteen years ago but never worn. I tried to donate them to a local group that recycles prom clothing and they declined the donation. They said kids would not wear them.

Other than a Holland America cruise, I haven’t see tuxedos in forever.

Interesting how things are different based on locality. Where I'm from prom kids do wear tuxedos and evening gowns... and so do adults who attend formal gatherings.

It's possible that the donation center thought that the items may have been dated? I know that I wouldn't dream of wearing some of the outfits I wore 15 years ago. :o

[taxmantoo]

Other than a Holland America cruise, I haven’t see tuxedos in forever.

You don't watch the Oscars, or the Grammys, or the NBA awards banquet, or the NFL awards banquet, or you've never been to a big charity fund raiser, or a theater premiere? Maybe buy a fashion magazine once in a while? Tuxedos are still around and going strong; whether people choose to wear them and where they choose to wear them is what we're discussing. I'm sure if you look for them, you will see them. If you choose not to look, you will not see them.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

I am not interested in private clubs, what the members wear or what ideas they would laugh at. And I hope most cruise passenger would not put that group, nor any group tending (apparently) toward conformity, up on a pedestal.

 

I don’t have a tux but I see no problem with HAL passengers enjoying a formal atmosphere, a few evenings on a cruise, and if that becomes less stylish so be it - the point is the formality and the message it provides. The message is not one of impressing people, but rather, on occasion we defer to standards, we live in a society.

[Fouremco]

I am not interested in private clubs, what the members wear or what ideas they would laugh at. And I hope most cruise passenger would not put that group, nor any group tending (apparently) toward conformity, up on a pedestal.

 

I don’t have a tux but I see no problem with HAL passengers enjoying a formal atmosphere, a few evenings on a cruise, and if that becomes less stylish so be it - the point is the formality and the message it provides. The message is not one of impressing people, but rather, on occasion we defer to standards, we live in a society.

Ay, there's the rub. Whose standards? The only ones that really count onboard are HAL's. What people wear at the Oscars, proms or country clubs really doesn't matter.

[sammiedawg]

You don't watch the Oscars, or the Grammys, or the NBA awards banquet, or the NFL awards banquet, or you've never been to a big charity fund raiser, or a theater premiere? Maybe buy a fashion magazine once in a while? Tuxedos are still around and going strong; whether people choose to wear them and where they choose to wear them is what we're discussing. I'm sure if you look for them, you will see them. If you choose not to look, you will not see them.

 

I didn’t mention any of the events you cited. I mentioned private clubs where patrons are very well dressed but they no longer wear formal wear to any event.

(I actually have a 30 year old picture of my father at an NYC College Football Hall of game event, wearing a tux).

[VennDiagram]

 

I had two brand new prom “gowns” with tags on, purchased fifteen years ago but never worn. I tried to donate them to a local group that recycles prom clothing and they declined the donation. They said kids would not wear them.

 

Styles have changed a lot in fifteen years. I'm not surprised the group declined the donation. I am quite sure it is all about them being fifteen years out of date, and has nothing at all to do with how formal proms are in 2018.