I will NEVER prebook pop up Sel de Mer again EVER - Heads up to 4 & 5* Mariners.

[iancal]

I have yet to meet someone who enjoys getting ripped off.

 

Makes a huge difference though when it is someone else's money and not yours.

 

What is wrong with pressing on for what you are entitled to and what you contracted for?

 

If the cashier at your grocery store scanned your can of peas at $101.00 instead of $1 would you be as cavalier?

 

Somehow I doubt it very much. Probably quite the opposite.

 

Comments like that speak volumes.

Edited July 22, 2018 by iancal

[ellieanne]

Four years ago, HAL had an internal audit of spending patterns by passengers, filtered by the number of Stars they had.

The average onboard spending budget targets at HAL are around $60 per pax per day.

New cruisers and 1 Star pax spend around that amount.

 

As each new star is earned, the average onboard spend goes down.

 

In the survey, 5 Star Mariners spent, on average, less than $5 per day. 4 Star Mariners averaged just over $7 per day.

 

Mass market cruise lines like HAL only make profit with onboard spending. If I were the HAL Company President, I would be very concerned about these numbers.

 

It makes sense. With the perks higher-star mariners get, their spending would naturally go down. They don't need to buy laundry packages, they get free laundry. They get a 50% discount on the upcharge restaurant meals, but that means they would have to go twice to make as much as a new Mariner that does not get a discount.

 

I'm a 4-Star Mariner and had a complimentary Explore4 package that included a Pinnacle Grill Dinner and Signature Beverage Package on my last cruise. After 11 days on board, my final bill was just $300, and most of that was a visit to the medical center for my husband.

 

Even without the Discounts or complimentary package perks, there is no way I would ever spend $60/day on board. Guess, even without my status, I'm not the kind of passenger HAL wants.

[kazu]

It sounds to me like someone skimmed through your correspondence far too quickly and missed the fact that it was multiple dinners, not just the one. Hopefully your follow up will do the trick.(yn)

 

Thanks - that's what I hope too.

 

Do not assume that any email correspondence coming from HAL is actually human-generated. Kazu, I know you are savvy enough to track down and speak to a real live responsible human being on the other end of a telephone to get your answers. I wish you a satisfactory resolution.

 

Thank you.

[*Miss G*]

Anyone who thinks their mother is always right, is always wrong.

 

An audit of spending by Mariner level is not going to turn up anything surprising. That level is reached by spending money. The reward for spending money is benefits. Everywhere you look there are loyalty programs. That's why they have them; so the customer will remain loyal. When a business does not honor the terms of that program, ALL customers -- including the ones that spend a lot -- will think twice about where to put their vacation dollars.

[kazu]

Four years ago, HAL had an internal audit of spending patterns by passengers, filtered by the number of Stars they had.

The average onboard spending budget targets at HAL are around $60 per pax per day.

New cruisers and 1 Star pax spend around that amount.

 

As each new star is earned, the average onboard spend goes down.

 

In the survey, 5 Star Mariners spent, on average, less than $5 per day. 4 Star Mariners averaged just over $7 per day.

 

Mass market cruise lines like HAL only make profit with onboard spending. If I were the HAL Company President, I would be very concerned about these numbers.

 

I have seen you post this before. Somehow, the numbers don't make sense to me. How can anyone only spend $5 per day on board? I have to assume that this figure is without the HSC since it is higher than that.

 

You can't even buy most drinks for $5?

 

Between drinks, wine packages, cellar master dinners, PG lunches & dinners & Sel de Mer's, Bingo, wine tastings, casino, etc., our spend should have been high enough to make HAL happy.

 

The one thing that affects not just 4 and 5* but all passengers' onboard spending is the Explore4. But, that is a false figure since they have 'paid' for it in their cruise price.

[sapper1]

You say you booked 10 dinners, was everyone a 5 star mariner? You only get the benefits for yourself and your cabin mates. So if all 10 folks were not in your cabin you only the discount on 2 dinners.

If the dinners are all billed to the four and five star Mariner then they are all discounted.

A few years ago we were part of a large roll call Pinnacle meal in which it was set up so a high star member hosted each table to get the discount for the others and then the rest of the table paid the host in cash for the discounted amount.

[bUU]

Four years ago, HAL had an internal audit of spending patterns by passengers, filtered by the number of Stars they had. The average onboard spending budget targets at HAL are around $60 per pax per day. New cruisers and 1 Star pax spend around that amount. As each new star is earned, the average onboard spend goes down. In the survey, 5 Star Mariners spent, on average, less than $5 per day. 4 Star Mariners averaged just over $7 per day. Mass market cruise lines like HAL only make profit with onboard spending. If I were the HAL Company President, I would be very concerned about these numbers.

And you'd take action to shift the focus of your operation's attention to where it should be, fostering high-revenue passengers. The cruise line's challenge is overcoming a problem they have created for themselves, having for years fed a broken system that fostered an unfounded sense of excessive entitlement in these low-revenue passengers that they deserve preferential treatment on the basis of their past spending rather than based on a reasonable expectation of their future spending. There has been, and will continue to be, lots of pain shared between the cruise line and its oldest, lowest-revenue passengers as the cruise line tries to remedy that failing.

[*Miss G*]

I have to agree Kazu. One would have to work extremely hard to spend only $5-$7 per day. I don't believe it either.

[sapper1]

I have to agree Kazu. One would have to work extremely hard to spend only $5-$7 per day. I don't believe it either.

Good grief. We would have to take the pledge to spend that small an amount. Not going to happen. :)

[KirkNC]

Four years ago, HAL had an internal audit of spending patterns by passengers, filtered by the number of Stars they had.

The average onboard spending budget targets at HAL are around $60 per pax per day.

New cruisers and 1 Star pax spend around that amount.

 

As each new star is earned, the average onboard spend goes down.

 

In the survey, 5 Star Mariners spent, on average, less than $5 per day. 4 Star Mariners averaged just over $7 per day.

 

Mass market cruise lines like HAL only make profit with onboard spending. If I were the HAL Company President, I would be very concerned about these numbers.

 

I am curious how you would have access to the findings of an internal audit?

[kazu]

I would hope that if this were the reason for the refusal of the discount that it would be clearly provided to the OP. This would not only help the OP understand the reason for HAL's decision, but also ensure the proper application of any applicable discounts in the future.

 

As Vict0riann pointed out earlier in this thread, the PG manager considered it a "themed" dinner and not eligible for discount. It was a simple as that. It had NOTHING to do with hosting other people. We were on a 28 day cruise with 4 Sel de Mer dates.

 

It has NOTHING to do with taking advantage or anything else. All 4 & 5*'s did not get it on the cruise (at least, none did that I spoke to that went). Hopefully this is clear enough.

Edited July 22, 2018 by kazu

[iancal]

HAL's low on board spending numbers can hardly be a surprise. No doubt that right across the board they are lower than most other lines.

 

Think about HAL ships. Tend to be smaller, far less venues in which to spend money. HAL does not exactly have the title of entertainment capital of the cruise ship industy. Again, fewer venues, less incentive to spend money. Then there is demographics. That speaks for itself. Ships that are all tucked in to bed at 10:30 ish clearly do not generate the same type of on board revenue as those who have busy venues well into the night.

 

I suspect that this is a financial challenge for HAL. No wonder their new builds are more in line with other cruise lines.

[DaveOKC]

HAL's low on board spending numbers can hardly be a surprise. No doubt that right across the board they are lower than most other lines.

 

Think about HAL ships. Tend to be smaller, far less venues in which to spend money. HAL does not exactly have the title of entertainment capital of the cruise ship industy. Again, fewer venues, less incentive to spend money. Then there is demographics. That speaks for itself. Ships that are all tucked in to bed at 10:30 ish clearly do not generate the same type of on board revenue as those who have busy venues well into the night.

 

I suspect that this is a financial challenge for HAL. No wonder their new builds are more in line with other cruise lines.

 

So true. A few years ago (about 5-6) I had a hotel manager tell me that the Vista and larger HAL ships were alot more profitable than the R and S class ones, so HAL would not be replacing the smaller ships.

[taxmantoo]

In the survey, 5 Star Mariners spent, on average, less than $5 per day. 4 Star Mariners averaged just over $7 per day.

 

... The cruise line's challenge is overcoming a problem they have created for themselves, having for years fed a broken system that fostered an unfounded sense of excessive entitlement in these low-revenue passengers that they deserve preferential treatment on the basis of their past spending rather than based on a reasonable expectation of their future spending.

 

Woa :mad: We are proud to be part of those lucky enough to have attained 5-star status and are most certainly not what could be considered "low revenue passengers" :rolleyes: On a great many of our cruises, if we had chosen to book an inside cabin or oceanview cabin or even in some cases a verandah cabin, our total onboard bill would have exceeded the actual cost of the cabin. With gratuities, excursions, special dinners, spa access. corkage fees, additional drinks, etc. our bill far exceeds the expected spending threshold. Believe me, we do not at all feel entitled when sitting down for a free $35 meal in the PG.

 

If HAL is to promote its Mariner Program to encourage people to come back, they should fix it so that obtaining the benefits that are rightfully ours without our having to "beg" for them becomes automatic. We have found it very humiliating to stand in line at Guest Services to argue our case for benefits that could very easily be built into the system with a few lines of computer code. You enter your Mariner number when booking, the discount is allowed before processing to your credit card...period!

[Tante Amalie]

We are 5 star Mariners and eat most of our meals in PG (mainly because the food has gotten so bad in the MDR, but that's another thread). In addition to the 5 star discount, we always get some dinners from our travel agent and sometimes Explore4 etc. This makes the calculation of our dining charges complicated.

 

It almost always gets screwed up, but we expect it and get it straightened out. The interesting thing is that at least 50% of the time they end up making a mistake in our favor. I check the cabin charges carefully and if we are being overcharged, I let them know. They have always corrected their mistake. If I am being undercharged, I don't say anything (perhaps I should). In any event, we have never lost anything and have sometimes benefited greatly from their sloppy accounting.

[iancal]

I was not in the least bit surprised at CHPURSER's comments about spend on HAL ships

 

I was not surprised about the number of people who removed gratuities from their account on the trip that he referenced. People who do this are not about to advertise the fact to other cruisers.

[bUU]

HAL's low on board spending numbers can hardly be a surprise.

I suspect it is; I suspect that some people might even try to rationalize the numbers, or outright deny them, in an attempt to find quarter for what they wish was true. Some of those low-revenue passengers may even try to claim that they aren't part of the problem even though they are. It's a battle; those who are increasingly irrelevant to the future of the cruise line desperately trying to cling to relevance despite there being a better direction for CCL's investments.

 

I suspect that this is a financial challenge for HAL. No wonder their new builds are more in line with other cruise lines.

Precisely, and if that doesn't result in a change the the prototypical passenger from what it used to be into this high revenue-generating passenger envisioned, then where do you think CCL will invest more capital in the future? Will they invest in what is effectively a losing proposition, or will they invest in another brand within the family that has a different passenger profile?

[iancal]

I do not think that low revenue customers are the problem.

 

Rather, I think that HAL has a business plan, an entertainment plan, and a ship fleet that is at variance with their target average per diem spend. Not to mention their actual demographics vs their so called target demographics.

 

HAL's older, loyal customers are asking for new ships, small ships and a return to the cruise environment of 20 or so years ago....including formal nights. Alas, I suspect tha many are probably not willing to pay more.

 

Those that were/are willing to pay more may have already tried/switched one or two other higher end cruise lines who really do target this niche. HAL might say that they do but in reality HAL does not. It is more pretend than anything else, IMHO.

 

Customers are not to blame for what may be the mismatch between the potential mismatch with HAL's financial plan.

Edited July 22, 2018 by iancal

[kazu]

I do not think that low revenue customers are the problem.

 

Rather, I think that HAL has a business plan, an entertainment plan, and a ship fleet that is at variance with their target average per diem spend. Not to mention their actual demographics vs their so called target demographics.

 

HAL's older, loyal customers are asking for new ships, small ships and a return to the cruise environment of 20 or so years ago....including formal nights. Alas, I suspect tha many are probably not willing to pay more.

 

Those that were/are willing to pay more may have already tried/switched one or two other higher end cruise lines who really do target this niche. HAL might say that they do but in reality HAL does not. It is more pretend than anything else, IMHO.

 

Customers are not to blame for what may be the mismatch between the potential mismatch with HAL's financial plan.

 

I agree.

 

Can we now return to the topic of this thread please or let it die?

[bUU]

I do not think that low revenue customers are the problem.

Then there isn't much to talk about. Revenues are fundamental to a healthy, growing business.

 

Customers are not to blame for what may be the mismatch between the potential mismatch with HAL's financial plan.

That's a rationalization for bashing a cruise line for doing what's best for its owners. Regardless, blame is irrelevant. It isn't the passengers' fault that they are low revenue customers, and it isn't the cruise line's fault that they're changing to better serve other, higher revenue passengers. Everyone is doing what they're supposed to. The only error is trying to say that anyone is doing something wrong.

[cbr663]

As Vict0riann pointed out earlier in this thread, the PG manager considered it a "themed" dinner and not eligible for discount. It was a simple as that. It had NOTHING to do with hosting other people. We were on a 28 day cruise with 4 Sel de Mer dates.

 

It has NOTHING to do with taking advantage or anything else. All 4 & 5*'s did not get it on the cruise (at least, none did that I spoke to that went). Hopefully this is clear enough.

 

It is perfectly clear. So much so, that perhaps you can change the title to reflect a heads up to other passengers that HAL sometimes views the pop up dinners as themed dinners and not eligible for a Marnier discount.

 

Why so much angst?

[kazu]

It is perfectly clear. So much so, that perhaps you can change the title to reflect a heads up to other passengers that HAL sometimes views the pop up dinners as themed dinners and not eligible for a Marnier discount.

 

Why so much angst?

 

Perhaps you might want to re-read your own post which I quoted earlier. The "IF's" have been used several times so I was simply making things as crystal clear as I could.

 

I thought it had been in post #1, but the insinuations by some that I must have been trying to take advantage of benefits are tiresome and untrue.

 

All I was trying to do was give people a heads up and a warning so they are prepared IF it happens to them on their cruise. I, for one, will not book Sel de Mer in advance in the future. If it's booked up, it's booked up. It's not worth 7 trips to try to get fixed and feel like you are batting your head against the wall.

[xjust4fun]

thanks a lot for the heads up we were going to pre-book all of our specialty dinners for our 3 cruises guess we will not book Sel De Mer. Thanks again for the advice.....

[Lady Chew]

If you pay for someone else’s dinner, it is charged to you using your Mariner status which means it will get the discount. This probably will sound tacky, but when we have met non 4-star people on cruises and all decide to go to a specialty restaurant, I always offer to charge their dinner to my account and then they can pay me back in cash at the discounted price. They are always very happy to do this since it saves them money. And if they don’t want me to do that, that is not a problem. They can have their meals charged to their account at the full price and we can still all enjoy dinner!

 

And we thank you!! But next cruise, we'll have caught up with y'all. Five stars, baby!

[LVinTennessee]

So far, I’ve only read to page 8, but Miss G’s post #80 really rang true to me despite BUU’s posts.

My church friends, who are the nicest people, regularly cruise with HAL. They are retired and have taken multiple cruises including B2B cruises. While I don’t know their spending habits or their mariner status, their love for HAL (plus the other loyal HAL cruiser comments on Cruise Critic) is what helped me book my first HAL cruise (and I spent quite a bit with no discounts).

I have yet to fill out my HAL survey from my latest cruise, but I wonder if they will ask “how did I hear about this cruise line?” Or “what compelled me to choose HAL over other cruise lines?” Maybe they should track how 4/5 star mariners are promoting their product. Because that equals $$$$.

On another note, when I happily told my church friends that I had finally booked a cruise on HAL, with a sad face from my friend, I got an extremely lackluster response about how “it’s not like it used to be.” HAL should be concerned about that. Because that will equal less $$$$.

 

 

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