Unique (i think) children situation

[jwcruise1]

This is the situation and question I asked CBP:

 

 

My brother-in-laws children (ages 4 and 12)were in the sole custody of the maternal grandmother. Both parents were granted supervised visitation and my brother-in-law was just granted legitimization of the children. The grandmother has given my wife guardianship of the children by way of notarized letter. Nothing by way of court yet but forthcoming. My question is in this situation what if any permissions or documentation if any would we need to carry these children on a closed loop cruise?

 

 

Maybe I should have added both parents have supervised visitation and clarified the grandmother has legal guardianship.

 

CBP's response:

 

Thank you for contacting the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Information Center.

 

CBP strongly recommends that unless a child is accompanied by both parents, the adult(s) traveling with the child should have a letter from the child's other parent/legal guardian or both parents/legal guardians stating: "I acknowledge that my wife/husband/friend/sister/special group, etc., is traveling out of the country with my son/daughter. He/She/They has/have my permission to do so”. The letter should include the name(s) of the authorized adult(s), where they are traveling to, what the purpose of travel is, when and how long the travel is expected to take, contact information of the parents or legal guardians, and the reason for the child travelingwithout both parents or with another adult. Having the letter notarized is not necessary; but is highly recommended.

Red emphasis are mine.

With this all being said, if we have a letter from the grandmother would that be sufficient? We have a cruise booked for 4/4/2019 my 4th everyone else's first everyone is supper excited and I would hate to be turned away because we failed to get a required court order.

Sorry so long trying to give a little background. TIA

 

Has anyone had a similar situation and what was your experience?

Edited July 23, 2018 by jwcruise1
forgot to add

[beachbum53]

Rather than ask on here, why don't you call the cruise line directly and ask what the requirements are for this situation? Each cruise line may have slightly different requirements.

[leaveitallbehind]

Sounds complicated - and as such somewhat risky. I am not an authority on this at all nor am I suggesting that my opinion is correct from any legal standpoint. But if all parties involved agree with the children traveling with you then I would have a notarized letter from all of them acknowledging their permission to do so.

 

If all agree and there is no hidden agenda with them traveling with you, then there would be no reason to not have everyone's permission, which would then negate any possibility of being refused boarding. I would think that would take all the question out of it from the cruise line perspective.

 

I would think at the very least if only the grandmother is giving written permission you should have some documentation proving she is the legal guardian and authorized to do so.

 

But maybe to be sure you should discuss this with a legal authority where you live who is familiar with this type of situation for their advice.

 

I would also discuss this with the cruise line in advance as well.

 

Just my opinion.

[jwcruise1]

Thanks for your replies. I wish it were that easy :rolleyes:.

I will call cruise line but I thought it was a CBP issue so that is why I asked them. Should have known I wouldn't get a straight answer from a government agency.

[Kamloops50]

I would talk to a lawyer , then the cruise line.

[leaveitallbehind]

Thanks for your replies. I wish it were that easy :rolleyes:.

I will call cruise line but I thought it was a CBP issue so that is why I asked them. Should have known I wouldn't get a straight answer from a government agency.

 

It is a CBP issue and I think the government agency gave you a straight answer - they stated that it is strongly recommended that there should be a letter from the child's legal guardian. Where is that not clear? And I would think in your circumstance that would be the least you should have - and if it were me I would have one from all involved.

 

Cruise lines have their own requirements - or recommendations - so that they are protected from any liability.

 

The two entities are independent of each other. So in your case it is a combination of both the CBP and the cruise line that you need to satisfy. The CBP is not answering for the cruise line - only their guidelines. And the cruise line is not answering for the CBP - only their guidelines. That is why you need to talk with both.

 

And as previously posted I would seek legal guidance as well relative to what seems to be a rather unique situation with you.

 

Again - all just my opinion.

[sail7seas]

I would s suggest more contact with CBP and retaining an attorney

You situation is too complica ted for an internet forum, IMO Adice you get here could be questionable.

Edited July 23, 2018 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

This is too specific a circumsta`nce for a casual telephone clerk,.

Edited July 23, 2018 by sail7seas

[Sue Do-Over]

My children have travelled with their grandparents out of state (but never out of the country). We have always written a letter that specifies:

* permission to leave the state (or country)

* permission to participate (i.e. grandma can sign permission slips for zip-lines)

* permission to authorize medical care

 

Along with copy of their medical insurance card, on the same page as a current photograph.

 

In the event of an emergency, she could show that document to hospital personnel, for example, to establish her connection to this specific child (who might not have the same last name).

[sail7seas]

The circumstance here is complicated with questions regarding custody... . and lack of all pertinent court orders.

[navybankerteacher]

The circumstance here is complicated with questions regarding custody... . and lack of all pertinent court orders.

 

Right — much to complicated a situation to rely upon a group such as CC posters for guidance.

 

Even if grandmother had “sole custody”, a “notarized letter” is really a meaningless scrap of paper. All notarization does is (attempt to) confirm the identity of the person who signed the notarized document.

 

Legal custody of mionors does not get transferred that easily.

 

The children will most likely travel with birth certificates as part of their identification. Any parent shown on the birth certificates not traveling with the children should give the parent traveling with them a notarized letter of permission.

 

Don’t take my word for it - but certainly seem competent advice.

[jwcruise1]

Maybe I should have clarified a little further, the notarized letter is from the grandmother giving dw guardianship we have the court order giving grandmother custody. The court order I was referring to needing to get is permission from court to take kids out of country since that is pretty much the route we would have to take. But I do appreciate all your replies was just hoping someone on here would have had a similar experience.

[EmiGirl826]

Maybe I should have clarified a little further, the notarized letter is from the grandmother giving dw guardianship we have the court order giving grandmother custody. The court order I was referring to needing to get is permission from court to take kids out of country since that is pretty much the route we would have to take. But I do appreciate all your replies was just hoping someone on here would have had a similar experience.

 

I would bring a copy of the court order giving grandma legal custody along with a notorized letter giving you and your wife permission for medical decisions, travel, and participation.

[Etta1213]

I want to take my daughter and her children on a closed loop cruise. The daddy of one child has shared custody but no contact.i told my daughter I won`t try to take that child onto a cruise ship without notarized letter from child`s dad, plus passport for the child. If child is injured, my understanding is that we couldn't `t get on a plane with him to fly home.

[jwcruise1]

Ok called CCL this morning and was told all we needed was a letter from the grandmother and we would be fine. i will probably call a few more times to make sure i get the same answer from different reps. Hope this post helps someone else but i don't really think there will be a lot of people on these boards in this situation. Thanks again for all responses. 254 days :cool:

[zqvol]

Really simple, if your explanation of the situation is accurate from a legal stand point. Bring a copy of the court order granting the grand mother guardian ship, and notarized permission from her to take the children out of the country.

[zqvol]

Ok called CCL this morning and was told all we needed was a letter from the grandmother and we would be fine. i will probably call a few more times to make sure i get the same answer from different reps. Hope this post helps someone else but i don't really think there will be a lot of people on these boards in this situation. Thanks again for all responses. 254 days :cool:

 

This is correct, but as a precaution I would take a copy of the decree giving her guardianship, to avoid having to explain why she signed the letter.

[ger_77]

Ok called CCL this morning and was told all we needed was a letter from the grandmother and we would be fine. i will probably call a few more times to make sure i get the same answer from different reps. Hope this post helps someone else but i don't really think there will be a lot of people on these boards in this situation. Thanks again for all responses. 254 days

 

The next time you call and - hoping you get the same answer - get the agent to send you an email with that same information on it, and bring the email with you along with the other documentation.

I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert, nor do I play one on television, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :)

[SRF]

No matter WHAT they say, I would follow the advice to bring a notarized/certified copy of the court order, so there is NO question that the grandmother has full legal custody.

 

No matter what the cruise line says, you could be standing on the dock watching the ship sail away.

 

You want a paper trail. Kids BC says who they were born to. Court order transfers legal custody. Notarized letter gives permission to take them on the trip.

 

Even if the grandmother was coming on the cruise, I would have a copy of the court order.

[gerif]

No matter WHAT they say, I would follow the advice to bring a notarized/certified copy of the court order, so there is NO question that the grandmother has full legal custody.

 

No matter what the cruise line says, you could be standing on the dock watching the ship sail away.

 

You want a paper trail. Kids BC says who they were born to. Court order transfers legal custody. Notarized letter gives permission to take them on the trip.

 

Even if the grandmother was coming on the cruise, I would have a copy of the court order.

^^this^^ you need to present a complete paper trail.

[jwcruise1]

No matter WHAT they say, I would follow the advice to bring a notarized/certified copy of the court order, so there is NO question that the grandmother has full legal custody. Oh yes, this was definitely going to be part of our boarding docs.

 

No matter what the cruise line says, you could be standing on the dock watching the ship sail away. Nope! Be putting their butts on a plane and calling someone to pick them up at the airport back home :evilsmile::')

 

You want a paper trail. Kids BC says who they were born to. Court order transfers legal custody. Notarized letter gives permission to take them on the trip.

 

Even if the grandmother was coming on the cruise, I would have a copy of the court order.

 

The next time you call and - hoping you get the same answer - get the agent to send you an email with that same information on it, and bring the email with you along with the other documentation.

I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert, nor do I play one on television, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :)

 

I will do that thanks

[SadieN]

Call CBP in your local international airport. We’ve asked LAX CBP all sorts of odd questions in person and on the phone.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[jwcruise1]

It is a CBP issue and I think the government agency gave you a straight answer - they stated that it is strongly recommended that there should be a letter from the child's legal guardian. Where is that not clear? And I would think in your circumstance that would be the least you should have - and if it were me I would have one from all involved.

 

Cruise lines have their own requirements - or recommendations - so that they are protected from any liability.

 

The two entities are independent of each other. So in your case it is a combination of both the CBP and the cruise line that you need to satisfy. The CBP is not answering for the cruise line - only their guidelines. And the cruise line is not answering for the CBP - only their guidelines. That is why you need to talk with both.

 

And as previously posted I would seek legal guidance as well relative to what seems to be a rather unique situation with you.

 

Again - all just my opinion.

 

I'm sorry I meant to answer your question already.

Yes they said it is strongly recommended but what exactly does that mean? I mean if you go to a restaurant and the waiter says "We strongly recommend the possum pâtè' " does that mean you can't eat if you don't order that? CCL also says on their website strongly recommended neither says it is a requirement so if someone shows up without it they should be allowed to board because no matter how strong it is still just a recommendation. This is why i don't feel it was a straight answer.

[jwcruise1]

I'm sorry I meant to answer your question already.

Yes they said it is strongly recommended but what exactly does that mean? I mean if you go to a restaurant and the waiter says "We strongly recommend the possum pâtè' " does that mean you can't eat if you don't order that? CCL also says on their website strongly recommended neither says it is a requirement so if someone shows up without it they should be allowed to board because no matter how strong it is still just a recommendation. This is why i don't feel it was a straight answer.

 

O.K called Carnival again and got the same answer, (letter from grandmother, who is legal guardian, will suffice). Also clarification on "strongly recommended" it is JUST a recommendation since they believe if you have travel documentation (passport, bc) then you have permission, they would just like to back it up with notarized letter from legal guardian. Next update will be in April I will let everyone know how it turns out. Thanks for all replies and sorry to leaveitallbehind I should not have been so snarky.HAPPY CRUISING :cool:

[Elaine5715]

Maybe I should have clarified a little further, the notarized letter is from the grandmother giving dw guardianship we have the court order giving grandmother custody. The court order I was referring to needing to get is permission from court to take kids out of country since that is pretty much the route we would have to take. But I do appreciate all your replies was just hoping someone on here would have had a similar experience.

A notarized letter only means the signature was witnessed by a notary, it has no more legal authority. . Only the court can transfer or bestow guardianship. One person cannot transfer legal guardianship to another.