Service charge ending!

[bee-ess]

So are you not concerned service levels will fall when the staff realise they have been stiffed over this change that benefits passengers, and they are taking home less money?

 

P&O have said that that tipping staff is neither required or expected, how they deal with this regarding staff payment is their concern not ours.

Can you tell me - what will you do, you are quick to criticise everyone else - what will you do in the future, more to the point what do you do now ?

[sweep2907]

Let's be clear on this everyone just because they are ending auto gratuities does not mean staff are earning less. P&O are investing heavily in employee relations currently and staff are seeing a far better standard wage rather than uncertainty of a good month followed by a bad month. Like us if you get great service then we tip well just as you would in any other walk of life .If like others you are waited on hand and foot and decide not to hand over a penny then again that's also your choice. I hope it is a more even playing field now. Like others have mentioned the company will claw money back in other ways and we as cruisers won't even notice.

 

For once P&O are being innovative and setting the way. It may force other companies to follow suit and what's more could result in passengers coming back to the company. For some couples on a budget this could make all the difference on a two week cruise. I also know OBS amounts have already lowered and are going to be less in future than they have been to entice people to book.

Edited August 21, 2018 by sweep2907
Mistype

[Millers]

As are those who raise the same points on every tipping thread time and time and time again!!!!

 

 

 

Please, let’s not turn this into yet another round of circular arguments about tipping. It’s now completely futile. P&O has now made the decision for us. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by any further debate on the pros and cons, distribution or anything else about service charges on P&O as they will no longer exist.

 

 

 

The only issue that remains is whether or not some passengers may choose to tip some of the staff who have gone ‘over and above’ some cash. That is entirely a matter for those passengers and nothing to do with anyone else. To try to make an issue out of that is picking an argument for the sake of it.

 

 

 

Well said

 

 

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[chrisg1uk]

P&O have said that that tipping staff is neither required or expected, how they deal with this regarding staff payment is their concern not ours.

 

Quite right. I am not aware that any of my customers are overly concerned about my pay or conditions and we should leave P&O to deal with this and get on with enjoying our holiday. If service levels fall then so will customer numbers ... that's how it works - so it's in no ones interest to make things worse for anyone. Despite what some might think, this is not a rushed decision. P&O / Carnival will adjust their income streams as they see fit and customers then have the choice of whether to buy the product or not. I really think some just enjoy being contrary.

[bee-ess]

Quite right. I am not aware that any of my customers are overly concerned about my pay or conditions and we should leave P&O to deal with this and get on with enjoying our holiday. If service levels fall then so will customer numbers ... that's how it works - so it's in no ones interest to make things worse for anyone. Despite what some might think, this is not a rushed decision. P&O / Carnival will adjust their income streams as they see fit and customers then have the choice of whether to buy the product or not. I really think some just enjoy being contrary.

 

Thank You

[Selbourne]

The crew will lose out unless P&O increase the bonus pot to take account of those people who opted out of the service charge and paid cash tips.

 

It was confirmed by P&O that crew paid cash tips did not have to hand them in.

 

Therefore over their contract period each member of crew would have received (on top of their base salary) a bonus from the pot funded by the service charges which you assert was topped up by P&O for those who opted out of the service charge, PLUS the cash tips from some of those who opted out of the service charge.

 

So the staff will lose out unless either P&O increase the bonus pot from what it currently is (funded by service charges and topped up for those who opt out), by the amount currently paid as cash tips.

 

That is unless the cash tippers want to carry on paying the same after the service charge disappears.

 

Like many others, I feel that you are just being provocative for the sake of it and whilst I almost cannot be bothered to rise to the bait, I would like to make a few points that challenge your assertion that staff will lose out and service levels will drop as a result of this change, as I believe that the opposite may be the case.

 

Yes, some people who opted out of auto grats and tipped in cash may well no longer do so. I would suggest, however, that many (like us) will continue to cash tip for 'over and above' service. BUT I would suggest that for everyone who used to opt out and tip in cash but now stops, an equal (or more likely greater) number will start to cash tip when they didn't before. These will, in the main, be people who paid the auto service charge (either willingly or because they didn't know that you could remove it - or didn't feel comfortable doing so), were very happy with the service but felt no need to cash tip anyone as the service charge had 'taken care of it'. Many of these people are likely to feel awkward that they aren't recognising good service from those they have got to know (cabin stewards, waiters etc) and are, I would suggest, now more likely to now offer a cash tip, even though P&O state that it isn't expected. It's just human nature.

 

The truth is that we just don't know, but P&O aren't daft and they would have thought all this through. It would not be in their interest to implement something that would cause their staff to be worse off as they will vote with their feet and leave.

 

As for service, I think this policy change will result in an improvement in service. With no passengers having paid a service charge, the likelihood of individual staff members receiving cash tips for good service will increase IMO and there will be a great incentive for them to go 'above and beyond'.

 

I have been critical of P&O over many things over the years, but for once I applaud them. They have listened to the not insignificant numbers of us who have written to them, called them or articulated on the 'opt out' forms on board why we have felt that service charges should be removed and incorporated into the fare. Frankly, I don't care how they recoup this money - I suspect that it will be through a number of things (though not a compulsory service charge) but it means that, at long last, every passenger pays equally and anyone who wishes to cash tip on top can do so if they wish and it need be of no concern to anyone else.

 

The only people who I can see would object to this policy change are those who opted out of the service charge and paid no cash tips, but I'm afraid that I have no sympathy with those people. So, nothing to argue about really, but then again.........

[Dinglebert]

There is one difference between what P&O are doing and some other cruise lines. They are removing the auto service charge. They are not saying as some other cruise lines do that service charges are included in the price you pay for the cruise.

[grapau27]

Your absolutely right about some people being just rude.

 

Personally I dont have a problem with civilised debate, it’s what keeps these boards alive and without it they would die off completely. Some posts are however unnecessarily confrontational.

Absolutely right.

[chrisg1uk]

So, nothing to argue about really, but then again.........

 

Oh you would have thought so, but get the feeling there probably is (if you work hard enough to find something).

[grapau27]

Like many others, I feel that you are just being provocative for the sake of it and whilst I almost cannot be bothered to rise to the bait, I would like to make a few points that challenge your assertion that staff will lose out and service levels will drop as a result of this change, as I believe that the opposite may be the case.

 

Yes, some people who opted out of auto grats and tipped in cash may well no longer do so. I would suggest, however, that many (like us) will continue to cash tip for 'over and above' service. BUT I would suggest that for everyone who used to opt out and tip in cash but now stops, an equal (or more likely greater) number will start to cash tip when they didn't before. These will, in the main, be people who paid the auto service charge (either willingly or because they didn't know that you could remove it - or didn't feel comfortable doing so), were very happy with the service but felt no need to cash tip anyone as the service charge had 'taken care of it'. Many of these people are likely to feel awkward that they aren't recognising good service from those they have got to know (cabin stewards, waiters etc) and are, I would suggest, now more likely to now offer a cash tip, even though P&O state that it isn't expected. It's just human nature.

 

The truth is that we just don't know, but P&O aren't daft and they would have thought all this through. It would not be in their interest to implement something that would cause their staff to be worse off as they will vote with their feet and leave.

 

As for service, I think this policy change will result in an improvement in service. With no passengers having paid a service charge, the likelihood of individual staff members receiving cash tips for good service will increase IMO and there will be a great incentive for them to go 'above and beyond'.

 

I have been critical of P&O over many things over the years, but for once I applaud them. They have listened to the not insignificant numbers of us who have written to them, called them or articulated on the 'opt out' forms on board why we have felt that service charges should be removed and incorporated into the fare. Frankly, I don't care how they recoup this money - I suspect that it will be through a number of things (though not a compulsory service charge) but it means that, at long last, every passenger pays equally and anyone who wishes to cash tip on top can do so if they wish and it need be of no concern to anyone else.

 

The only people who I can see would object to this policy change are those who opted out of the service charge and paid no cash tips, but I'm afraid that I have no sympathy with those people. So, nothing to argue about really, but then again.........

Excellent summary and I totally agree with what you say.

[wowzz]

There is one difference between what P&O are doing and some other cruise lines. They are removing the auto service charge. They are not saying as some other cruise lines do that service charges are included in the price you pay for the cruise.

But the implication is that they are. The staff are not financially worse off under the new arrangements, therefore the service charge will come out of the cruise fare.

 

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[Selbourne]

There is one difference between what P&O are doing and some other cruise lines. They are removing the auto service charge. They are not saying as some other cruise lines do that service charges are included in the price you pay for the cruise.

 

They aren't saying it yet, because it hasn't been implemented. Once it has, I am sure that they will make it a marketing message. They would be daft not to as it will be a positive selling message.

[terrierjohn]

The crew will lose out unless P&O increase the bonus pot to take account of those people who opted out of the service charge and paid cash tips.

 

It was confirmed by P&O that crew paid cash tips did not have to hand them in.

 

Therefore over their contract period each member of crew would have received (on top of their base salary) a bonus from the pot funded by the service charges which you assert was topped up by P&O for those who opted out of the service charge, PLUS the cash tips from some of those who opted out of the service charge.

 

So the staff will lose out unless either P&O increase the bonus pot from what it currently is (funded by service charges and topped up for those who opt out), by the amount currently paid as cash tips.

 

That is unless the cash tippers want to carry on paying the same after the service charge disappears.

I raised this issue myself, but more as a pointer to question just how many passengers who removed the auto tip then proceeded to pay the full amount in cash tips; and this is in no way a criticism of any posters on this forum, since as has been commented on many times, we are probably not truly representative of the average passenger.

In all probability this will make little or no difference to the staff wages and even if it does that is clearly something that P&O will need to negotiate with it's staff, and certainly any earning disparity between P&O and other cruise lines hotel staff is something that they are probably constantly monitoring.

For the passengers this now eliminates any doubts about who to tip, and who shares in the tip pool, we can decide entirely on the basis of who provides us with that extra special service and deserves a "little" extra reward.

[grapau27]

I raised this issue myself, but more as a pointer to question just how many passengers who removed the auto tip then proceeded to pay the full amount in cash tips; and this is in no way a criticism of any posters on this forum, since as has been commented on many times, we are probably not truly representative of the average passenger.

In all probability this will make little or no difference to the staff wages and even if it does that is clearly something that P&O will need to negotiate with it's staff, and certainly any earning disparity between P&O and other cruise lines hotel staff is something that they are probably constantly monitoring.

For the passengers this now eliminates any doubts about who to tip, and who shares in the tip pool, we can decide entirely on the basis of who provides us with that extra special service and deserves a "little" extra reward.

I agree, I'm sure the service will be better when the crew know that any cash tip is their reward personally from us for excellent customer service.

[P-L-B]

Like many others, I feel that you are just being provocative for the sake of it and whilst I almost cannot be bothered to rise to the bait, I would like to make a few points that challenge your assertion that staff will lose out and service levels will drop as a result of this change, as I believe that the opposite may be the case.

 

Yes, some people who opted out of auto grats and tipped in cash may well no longer do so. I would suggest, however, that many (like us) will continue to cash tip for 'over and above' service. BUT I would suggest that for everyone who used to opt out and tip in cash but now stops, an equal (or more likely greater) number will start to cash tip when they didn't before. These will, in the main, be people who paid the auto service charge (either willingly or because they didn't know that you could remove it - or didn't feel comfortable doing so), were very happy with the service but felt no need to cash tip anyone as the service charge had 'taken care of it'. Many of these people are likely to feel awkward that they aren't recognising good service from those they have got to know (cabin stewards, waiters etc) and are, I would suggest, now more likely to now offer a cash tip, even though P&O state that it isn't expected. It's just human nature.

 

The truth is that we just don't know, but P&O aren't daft and they would have thought all this through. It would not be in their interest to implement something that would cause their staff to be worse off as they will vote with their feet and leave.

 

As for service, I think this policy change will result in an improvement in service. With no passengers having paid a service charge, the likelihood of individual staff members receiving cash tips for good service will increase IMO and there will be a great incentive for them to go 'above and beyond'.

 

I have been critical of P&O over many things over the years, but for once I applaud them. They have listened to the not insignificant numbers of us who have written to them, called them or articulated on the 'opt out' forms on board why we have felt that service charges should be removed and incorporated into the fare. Frankly, I don't care how they recoup this money - I suspect that it will be through a number of things (though not a compulsory service charge) but it means that, at long last, every passenger pays equally and anyone who wishes to cash tip on top can do so if they wish and it need be of no concern to anyone else.

 

The only people who I can see would object to this policy change are those who opted out of the service charge and paid no cash tips, but I'm afraid that I have no sympathy with those people. So, nothing to argue about really, but then again.........

Well said, I also totally agree with what you say and the points you make.

[picsa]

There is one difference between what P&O are doing and some other cruise lines. They are removing the auto service charge. They are not saying as some other cruise lines do that service charges are included in the price you pay for the cruise.

 

So your expectation is P&O is headed back to a cash tips culture, where everyone is expected to take part.

 

Interesting and back to the empty MDR on the last night.

[Clagmeister]

Surely that is P&O's problem not ours - the implication as I read it is that tipping 'is taken care of' and that we will be paying for it in other ways whatever they may be, We will not be tipping generally and even if we do tip any individuals it will not be anywhere on the scale it has been. I'm assuming that will be the position of most people.

 

From May 2019 (cruises A911, B912, E911/A, J903, N910, R907, X907 and all thereafter), the discretionary daily Service Charge on board will be removed so you can relax knowing it’s all taken care of.

 

I agee that it is up to the cruise company to sort out renumeration of its staff not ours. Though I have always elected to pay up front auto gratuities, this innovation is a welcome change.

[bee-ess]

So your expectation is P&O is headed back to a cash tips culture, where everyone is expected to take part.

 

Interesting and back to the empty MDR on the last night.

 

You keep posting negative comments, in your opinion what is the solution. Customers asked for an end of service charge and it has been given. People will still tip at their discretion - where is the problem.

[picsa]

You keep posting negative comments, in your opinion what is the solution. Customers asked for an end of service charge and it has been given. People will still tip at their discretion - where is the problem.

 

It is interesting (and possibly says a lot to your tipping attitude) that you see cash tips as a negative.

 

Will you be in the MDR on the last night?

[wowzz]

It is interesting (and possibly says a lot to your tipping attitude) that you see cash tips as a negative.

 

Will you be in the MDR on the last night?

P&O have specifically said that tips will not be expected.

 

I think you could pick a fight in an empty room.

 

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[davecttr]

So are you not concerned service levels will fall when the staff realise they have been stiffed over this change that benefits passengers, and they are taking home less money?

 

Service levels won't fall and you will see a happy and efficient crew, Just like on Marella where 'tipping' has been included in the fare for a lot of years

[Solent Richard]

Yay - no more tipping threads!

 

 

Isn't it lovely and we now have a level playing field. :evilsmile:

[bee-ess]

It is interesting (and possibly says a lot to your tipping attitude) that you see cash tips as a negative.

 

Will you be in the MDR on the last night?

 

Certainly will - why would I not. If the service has been good I will tip the waiters, albeit not at £7pppd as that has been covered by P&O - how iP&O do this I don't really care. Same applies to the Cabin Steward.

 

How do you know what my tipping attitude is ? I have never not tipped in all our cruises - I switched away from autotip a couple of years ago, but have always tipped.

 

Why don't you tell us what you do about tipping - or don't you tip ?

[Dinglebert]

So your expectation is P&O is headed back to a cash tips culture, where everyone is expected to take part.

 

Interesting and back to the empty MDR on the last night.

 

I don't have an expectation. As it stands with the information we have been given by P&O all they are doing is removing the auto service charge. They have not stated yet that a service charge will in future be included in the price of the cruise. If they don't then yes we will be heading back to cash tips. If they do say service is included in the price then we will be where we are now in that some/many people will still tip cash over and above for different reasons. Either way tipping threads will still be on this forum.

[davecttr]

Let's be clear on this everyone just because they are ending auto gratuities does not mean staff are earning less. P&O are investing heavily in employee relations currently and staff are seeing a far better standard wage rather than uncertainty of a good month followed by a bad month. Like us if you get great service then we tip well just as you would in any other walk of life .If like others you are waited on hand and foot and decide not to hand over a penny then again that's also your choice. I hope it is a more even playing field now. Like others have mentioned the company will claw money back in other ways and we as cruisers won't even notice.

 

For once P&O are being innovative and setting the way. It may force other companies to follow suit and what's more could result in passengers coming back to the company. For some couples on a budget this could make all the difference on a two week cruise. I also know OBS amounts have already lowered and are going to be less in future than they have been to entice people to book.

 

I have cruised with Thomson/TUI/Marella for 10 years and they have been including tips in the fare for at least that length of time.

 

Bye the way, the MDR does not empty on the last night because the no need to tip message is repeated throughout the cruise