Hand sanitiser aversion

[Officeboy]

On a recent Holland America cruise a member of staff stood by the dispenser advising people to use them, they fit 'spit guards' so that no cruiser can serve themselves or protect the food from cough and sneezes in the Lido Market.

One could serve oneself at lunch time around to pool to the Mexican style food thou

[hihilo]

Some smart people post on here, namely

 

Toad of Toad Hall # 2

 

Austcruiser84 # 13

 

Cougaraz # 23

 

I eat in the buffet all the time...on all 3 QUEENS + have never been sick.

 

Maybe because I NEVER eat food with my hands.... ( yes I miss the bread), And I wash with soap and water constantly.

[roscoe39]

A few years back on a Holland America cruise, I was in a bathroom near the entrance to the buffet, and there was a man in one of the stalls who was very obviously going #2 (smells and sounds). He came out of the stall as I was washing my hands, bypassed the sinks, and just walked out in front of me.

 

Guess where he went? Yes, straight to the buffet line! It was revolting to know that this man had fecal matter in his hands and was about to handle the same utensils that everyone (including myself) would use as well. I just had to walk away and eat somewhere else. I feel as if I should’ve said something directly to him, but I feared making a scene. In retrospect I should’ve.

 

Ironically, I got violently ill later that week with gastrointestinal problems. Missed a day and a half of my cruise locked up in my stateroom due to this. Ever since that experience, I have made some changes to my habits onboard. I wash my hands even more frequently than I used to, I always carry hand sanitizer or use the ones provided (to SUPPLEMENT my hand washing), and I try to avoid going to the buffet as much as I can. Even if I have just washed my hands,

I still take advantage of the hand sanitizers whenever I can.

 

To everyone feeling the need to justify their decision to bypass the hand sanitizers because you have already throughly washed your hands: you are not the problem. It’s people like Mr. #2 on my Holland America cruise (and who are completely oblivious) the reason why cruise lines are trying whatever they can to minimize the effects of people like him.

 

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like :D

[Austcruiser84]

Taking liquids of more the 200ml onto a plan is another example of the same thing. The idea behind 200ml is that several people working together could then meet on the plane and create a liquid bomb. But this has been shown to be impossible because at the very least you would need a laboratory to do it in, and even then it's highly unlikely. But yet again, Governments around the world will not back down.

And in Australia, do you have the nonsense about not using a mobile on the forecourt of a petrol station because of the risk of explosion?

 

But the fact a mobile phone has never caused an explosion (and in fact can't because they don't have enough power to cause a sufficiently large spark) makes no difference. The petrol companies came out with it and will now not back down, even though it's total garbage.

 

Yes, we have the same silly law in Australia. Interesting fact I learnt about liquids recently. Although you are banned from taking more than 100ml in carry on out of Australia, including gel substances, if you declare it for medical reasons you can take as much as you like. From what I was told by the individual concerned, no checks were done! Very much the illusion of security.

[Cats2010]

Apart from washing hands thoroughly and using the sanitizers, I suggest that making sure that the immune system remains stable is to lead a mindful and healthy lifestyle.

[Windsurfboy]

We do NOT all agree that sanitizers are next to useless, nor that only soap and water works.

 

There is no substitute for hand washing, but the reality is that unless the sink is in the buffet or the entrance to the dining room, you are almost guaranteed to come in contact with some surface during your transit to the area (the door to your cabin, the railing in the passage way or staircase, the elevator button, your cruise card, the edge of the chair in the bar for your pre-dinner cocktail). Using the hand sanitizer is cheap, quick and there are no contraindications for the overwhelming majority of people.

 

Hand sanitizers are very effective against bacteria (including E. coli and fecal streptococci) and certain types of viruses (including influenza, hepatitis B and herpes simplex 1 and 2).

 

https://aem.asm.org/content/76/2/394

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2813169/

 

The hand sanitizers should be considered a part of a good hygiene program and skipping them is just leaving oneself and others open to potential risk that could have been reduced with a very simple procedure.

 

Ultimately, hygiene on a cruise is a community problem, no one persons daily habits can fully separate them from the impacts of what other people do or don't do.

 

The simplest ways to help yourself are to wash your hands frequently and thoroughly, use the hand sanitizer before eating as an added measure, touch only the public surfaces that you must and don't eat with your hands.

 

The unfortunate reality is that even the strictist adherence to the above will not reduce your risk to zero, so many people from so many places, in such a small place represents a higher risk of infection of some time being passed. So, the smart money is on taking every opportunity available to reduce the risk.

 

Which also means that I have, and will in the future, called out anyone leaving the restroom without washing their hands.

 

Of the two papers quoted above

 

one shows that hand sanitisers are better than washing in "dirty", river or well water in Tanzanian villages. Wouldn't argue with that but it's Cunard we are talking about, plenty of hot clean water for proper hand washing

 

The other the Toronto university study actually says alcohol based hand sanitisers are not that effective against Norovirus

 

Hand sanitisers are not the recomended way of cleaning exposure to norovirus , feaces etc. See royal college of nursing guidelines for caring for elderly, they recommend washing with hot soapy water. Similiary the CDC and NICE recommend washing with hot soapy water above hand sanitisers. Hand sanitisers are better than nothing, against trace contaminants.

 

My advice is still

 

Avoid buffets at all cost, and wash hands before meal like your mother told you to do

[picsa]

And yet, every year millions of cruise passengers eat in the buffet and don't get sick.

 

And lots of people do and get sick.

 

If you want to risk spending several days evacuating in both directions, feel free.

[picsa]

And certainly don't eat anything that has been touched by the crew because........oh, wait...

 

Frst thing that gets shut down when noro strikes is self service in the buffet, replaced with the staff serving and the restaurants continue as normal (except menus and condiments handled by passengers are removed).

 

Coincidence?

[Underwatr]

The other the Toronto university study actually says alcohol based hand sanitisers are not that effective against Norovirus

 

Hand sanitisers are not the recomended way of cleaning exposure to norovirus , feaces etc. See royal college of nursing guidelines for caring for elderly, they recommend washing with hot soapy water. Similiary the CDC and NICE recommend washing with hot soapy water above hand sanitisers. Hand sanitisers are better than nothing, against trace contaminants.

Cunard uses a Purell formula (VF481) for which there is some evidence of effectiveness against Norovirus (but at longer treatment duration than you'll get from the little squirt you get walking into the buffet).

[axelskater]

Ask a non-risk taker I carry my own sanitizer and pen. I also don't use the public bathrooms on the ship. As for touching handrails or elevator buttons - never done it, never well. Use my elbow for the button and don't touch the handrails ever even in heels. Have not eaten at a Cunard buffet in years either though I am not fond of the food anyway...but if I did I would just use a napkin to handle the serving utensils. These things are just a few extra seconds in life and no big deal but I have been on board during code red Noro breakouts and never had a problem.

[Bennybluehat]

Makes me wonder if a lot of the noro virus cases onboard aren’t that at all, but are down to people making themselves ill by eating like pigs, guzzling alcohol like there’s isn’t another day coming & spending far too much time baking in the scorching sun!! :confused:

[Underwatr]

If the ship reports to the CDC that it's Norovirus, it's Norovirus.

[cougaraz]

Makes me wonder if a lot of the noro virus cases onboard aren’t that at all, but are down to people making themselves ill by eating like pigs, guzzling alcohol like there’s isn’t another day coming & spending far too much time baking in the scorching sun!! :confused:

 

As a lifelong sailor who has more than sufficient experience with what happens when you eat like a pig, guzzle alcohol and roast in the sun there is no chance even the worst expressions of those consequences could be confused for norovirus.

[lenquixote66]

On our latest voyage on the QV which we disembarked from last Friday, once again, I was amazed at just how many people failed to utilise the hand sanitisers provided, in fact people not only ignore the presence of the hand units but appear to go out of their way to avoid using them. On three occasions, it could have been a lot more, I felt so strongly about the failure to use the units that I commented to the people avoiding them. In each case I was met by abuse from the males and a non-plussed, "what has it got to do with me attitude from the females". These would probably be the first to run to a solicitor or lawyer to complain about the ship's hygiene if they became ill.

 

I am sick of saying to people, as cruisers our danger is not from the ship but from the other passengers.

 

David

 

 

I carry my own and use it in addition to the ships.

[jomf]

Makes me wonder if a lot of the noro virus cases onboard aren’t that at all, but are down to people making themselves ill by eating like pigs, guzzling alcohol like there’s isn’t another day coming & spending far too much time baking in the scorching sun!! :confused:

 

There is a complete difference between norovirus and a hangover/ eating too much! My OH got the dreaded bug, was extremely ill, confined to cabin for 24 hours. Annoying as he is fastidious in washing his hands etc. Funnily enough I read a medical piece that said people with blood group O are far more likely to suffer the norovirus than other blood types. Weird but my OH is O whilst I am A ( and didn’t catch the bug).

[CrossBluePerchance]

Funnily enough I read a medical piece that said people with blood group O are far more likely to suffer the norovirus than other blood types.

 

Is that primarily statistical, since 'O' neg/pos make up ~ 44% of people, while the other types are less common?

[jomf]

Is that primarily statistical, since 'O' neg/pos make up ~ 44% of people, while the other types are less common?

 

No, it was as a percentage of each blood type, not total numbers. It came true for the two of us!

[CrossBluePerchance]

No, it was as a percentage of each blood type, not total numbers. It came true for the two of us!

 

Interesting, thanks. We are both 'A' Negative...which, in this instance, might be a positive.

[Glenndale]

Both blood group O, one +, one -, over 60 cruises, including cruises with Norovirus outbreaks, and never been infected.

Washing with soap and water and never using the public bathrooms seems to do it for us.

We always use our knuckles on lift buttons and on disembarkation and embarkation insist on holding onto our seapass cards and scanning them ourselves.

[NotThePest_Too]

I make my own sanitizers using 91% alcohol solution (dilute 50% boiled water; 50% Alcohol) If I can only find 50-70%, I reduce the boiled water percentage accordingly. For every four ounces (approx. 113 mil) I then add, 10 drops of peppermint essential oil; 8 drops of cypress essential oil. I carry this in my ever present backpack/bag. The solution, which is shaken vigorously before use is placed in a tinted (blue or amber) bottle (spray or push-up top).

 

This solution hasn't been tested; however, it is fairly easy to find the properties of pure essential oils. I also know alcohol does not kill all viruses however certain oils can kill one or the other.

 

Ramona

Edited September 9, 2018 by NotThePest_Too

[bazzaw]

I would like to see these hand sanitisers banned entirely!!!!!Why?? - because they do not protect against Norovirus (which is a virus, not a bacteria) and therefore give people false assurance that they are doing the right thing before entering an eating place. There is only one way to battle Norovirus and that is to wash hands regularly and thoroughly, especially before eating. The matter of washing hands after toileting is of course another important matter to combat e coli poisoning.

[bazzaw]

Whenever there is a Norovirus outbreak on a ship , I always ask the question "why is it that on a ship with say 3000 people onboard, only 300 got Norovirus?????" I believe that these are the very people who do not WASH their hands regularly and rely on sanitizers.

[cougaraz]

Whenever there is a Norovirus outbreak on a ship , I always ask the question "why is it that on a ship with say 3000 people onboard, only 300 got Norovirus?????" I believe that these are the very people who do not WASH their hands regularly and rely on sanitizers.

You do know that there are a massive variety of things that cause people to get ill on cruise ships that aren't norovirus right? And that many of those pathogens are effectively mitigated with hand sanitizers?

 

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[bazzaw]

You do know that there are a massive variety of things that cause people to get ill on cruise ships that aren't norovirus right? And that many of those pathogens are effectively mitigated with hand sanitizers?

 

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True!!! BUT Norovirus is the BIGGIE and hand sanitizers do not touch it!

[Conshydot]

I am one of those people who do not use the hand sanitizers, the alcohol based sanitizers give me a rash.

BUT I carry a non-alcohol spray sanitizer in my purse that I use after reading the menu. Why after reading the menu? They never clean those menu folders, who knows what evil lurks on the faux leather.