Do you regret

[LuckyStar]

On 12/20/2018 at 10:18 AM, Bizmark'sMom said:

I make notes to myself about places to return to for a more thorough visit.  Any cruise will give you the briefest taste of an area.  Sometimes, that brief visit is enough.  Other times, I find myself interested enough to plan a later land trip so that I can explore more fully.

 

There's never regret.  Cruising has taken me to some ports that would never have been on my radar otherwise.

 

I'm with Bizmark'smom here.  We LOVED going to Grenada on our cruise and it has given me a lot to consider for a land trip.  I have been to ports that I wouldn't have wanted to return to on a land trip and others I can't wait to go back to.  Having that small taste of the port is often enough inducement to encourage a revisit.  

[SRF]

23 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Agreed.  Major port call destinations like Rome (via Civita Vecchia), Florence (via Livorno), Athens (via Piraeus) simply cannot even be glimpsed in the few hours available; while the smaller ones, like Mykonos and Santorini, simply cannot be seen over the heads of the thousands of other cruisers in port with you.

 

We spent a week on Mykonos, and still have things to go back and do.

[SRF]

22 hours ago, K32682 said:

In all fairness to them they probably wouldn't have "been" there otherwise.  Some people are intimidated by the prospect of managing in another language and culture and need the reassurance of the large floating security blanket.  At least they were there as opposed to never having seen the place even for brief cruise stop.    

 

I understand that.  But they still haven't been there. 🙂

 

I have traveled to 145 different countries.  And I barely speak English (father from the South 😄 ).  And I get along fine.

 

And nowdays, it is even easier with Google Translate. 😄

 

Yes, I understand those that are intimidated, but then take a land tour with a guide to handle things.

[K32682]

33 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

I understand that.  But they still haven't been there. 🙂

 

I have traveled to 145 different countries.  And I barely speak English (father from the South 😄 ).  And I get along fine.

 

And nowdays, it is even easier with Google Translate. 😄

 

Yes, I understand those that are intimidated, but then take a land tour with a guide to handle things.

Our travel histories are fairly similar and I've managed too but even the most timid of cruisers are still well ahead of the majority of Americans who don't leave their own country. Even a day somewhere on a cruise stop is better than looking at someone else's pictures it. 

[Markanddonna]

I don't think its fair to mock people because they have only experienced a city or country through a one-day port stop. You can often see a sample representation of what a city has to offer and then can return. I have a strong desire to return to most cities I've visited (except Paris), so I keep records and reviews of our major trips.

 

The best way to cruise is to spend more time pre or post cruise at one location, usually near the debarkation port. It is always best to try to get more inland to visit cities far from the port.

 

If we think about it, most of us haven't been to all the "important sites" within a two-hour drive of our own homes.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Markanddonna

[cruisemom42]

On 12/26/2018 at 12:42 AM, JMorris271 said:

Today I canceled plans for our 15 day cruise around Japan. We decided that this time we are going to really see the shrines and gardens instead of zipping by them.I am loosing the $900 deposit so we will need go get some great photos AND  have no regrets.

We will be doing a self guided tour rising the JR System for longer hauls and renting a vehicle locally.

We will do a cruise another time.

 

I think you will have a wonderful adventure. I spent two weeks in Japan with my son and we made all of our arrangements and did all of our touring (except for two special tours) on our own. Japanese transportation is great -- reliable, safe, clean and easy to use. 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

On 12/26/2018 at 4:43 AM, SRF said:

 

For these reasons, I have NO desire to do a Med cruise.  Every day is a port day, and never enough time for that city.  Why bother?  Most of the port stops, are at least a week or even longer to really explore and enjoy.

 

 

While that's true, I love both cruising and the Med and have done 10 Med cruises since 2006.  When you know you will be going back, there's no need to squeeze too much into every day. For example, I've visited Kusadasi enough times to visit Ephesus three times (focusing on a different section each time) as well as nearby Didyma, Miletus and Priene twice, farther off Aphrodisias once, and the Ephesus museum as well.

 

While I also do land travel in Europe and the Med, I find Med cruises fulfill both my desire to visit Classical sites and my love of being at sea.

[bob brown]

On 12/21/2018 at 1:27 AM, JMorris271 said:

Unfortunately,  we also got sucked into the carpet (warehouse) in Istanbull.   About an hour hacked off of my life.

I think it's a pretty good bet that the tour guide that takes their group in there (and similar places on any tour, anywhere), is getting a percentage of the 'take'...

[JMorris271]

1 hour ago, bob brown said:

I think it's a pretty good bet that the tour guide that takes their group in there (and similar places on any tour, anywhere), is getting a percentage of the 'take'...

No doubt about that at all. Same thing with the tour bus stopping at gift shops I imagine. Can you blame them?

[iancal]

We typically only do private tours.  We find that they are far better value  (sometimes less expensive, sometimes more expensive), we often get to customize the itinerary which includes eliminating all shopping stops, and the group is smaller-sometimes just us. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by iancal

[pris993]

no regrets at all. We always assumed we would return and we did many times over.  Now we our 70 / 80s ,, now only cruise from our home port, have the satisfaction we have seen most of what we wanted to see...  having traveled  over 30 years.

 

 

[calliopecruiser]

7 hours ago, JMorris271 said:

Can you blame them?

 

Yes, I can. 

 

People should not be paying so they can become a captive audience for a particular retailer, whether under the guise of a "factory tour" or an "opportunity to get souvenirs"......well, at least unless they've been told that it is what's in store.  I rarely take guided tours, and when I do, they are focused on something (a theme or topic) and they don''t include shopping.  I'd expect that kind of shopping stop from a free tour, but not something I've paid for.

[SRF]

20 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

I don't think its fair to mock people because they have only experienced a city or country through a one-day port stop. You can often see a sample representation of what a city has to offer and then can return. I have a strong desire to return to most cities I've visited (except Paris), so I keep records and reviews of our major trips.

 

The best way to cruise is to spend more time pre or post cruise at one location, usually near the debarkation port. It is always best to try to get more inland to visit cities far from the port.

 

If we think about it, most of us haven't been to all the "important sites" within a two-hour drive of our own homes.

 

I am not mocking people who have done a cruise or used that one day to scope out a place.

 

I am mocking people who proudly proclaim they have BEEN to somewhere, when they were there for less than a day at a port stop.  Many of whom proclaim to not need to go back, because they have BEEN there.

[Markanddonna]

As an experienced traveler who does my homework on ports before I leave, I think I can spend a day at a port and proclaim that I have "been there" long enough to know I have no desire to return or that my one day gave me a general sense or feel for the place. I am also a travel writer who looks at the experience with pretty objective eyes. When in that role, I try to think of providing helpful information to pass along and attempt to prioritize experiences in order to help others make the most of their trip.

 

I've learned to size up a stranger's travel advice pretty quickly. Just like the reviews on CC, I avoid comments of the perpetually crabby (the food was inedible, all the crew are rude and unhelpful...)  I also want details rather than "everything was wonderful" comments.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Markanddonna

[calliopecruiser]

On 12/28/2018 at 8:28 AM, Markanddonna said:

I think I can spend a day at a port and proclaim that I have "been there" long enough to know I have no desire to return or that my one day gave me a general sense or feel for the place.

That's true for the port (city), but not for the area or country......I do believe places have vibes, and if you think the vibe is bad you don't like it there, regardless of what anyone else thinks or what particular sites the area might have that are supposed to be "unmissible".  But you can't extend it to the rest of the area/country/island, and you may be doing a disservice to a place by labeling it based on your day in only one small part.  I would be sadder and less wise if I'd decided I didn't want to go back to Spain based on my experiences and opinions of Barcelona, for example. 

[cruisemom42]

On 12/28/2018 at 8:28 AM, Markanddonna said:

As an experienced traveler who does my homework on ports before I leave, I think I can spend a day at a port and proclaim that I have "been there" long enough to know I have no desire to return or that my one day gave me a general sense or feel for the place. I am also a travel writer who looks at the experience with pretty objective eyes. When in that role, I try to think of providing helpful information to pass along and attempt to prioritize experiences in order to help others make the most of their trip.

 

 

While I don't entirely disagree, I also try to keep an open mind when only visiting a place during the day on a cruise stop. Athens, for example, is very different place at night than during they day -- much more charming. And Venice at night, after the day trippers have gone, is very much more like the Venice of books and of my imagination.  One big minus of cruising is usually only getting to experience a place during "peak tourist hours" and not in the evening....

[Markanddonna]

I agree with both of the last two posters and think we generally agree. There are all sorts of things that affect our opinion of a city or port:

the amount of time we spend there- more is generally better

the weather- a week can be ruined by lots of rain, snow or intense heat

crowds- less is always better

crime- we might really dislike a city only because we fell for a scam or were robbed

our health- a cold or knee problem makes an otherwise lovely day not the best

lack of good planning- museums or churches closed, too crowded, etc.

 

Some people just aren't adventuresome and don't get beyond an organized tour. It is wonderful to get inside a country and spend at least a few days in one city. Even I haven't been to every part of the city in which I've lived for about thirty years, so how could I expect much more in a foreign country?

 

I sort of dread the day when my age and health will limit my independent travel. Last May, I wandered off the ship by myself on May 1st with the goal of seeing a certain street in a port in France and my cell phone as my GPS. It seemed every French person was still asleep at 10, and I wandered into an unsafe area with people yelling at me to leave (talk about doing my research!!!). I was told later that was the beginning of a "no-go" zone. I learned my lesson, but it was a once in a lifetime experience and I'm alive to tell about it...

 

 

 

 

[JMorris271]

4 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

I agree with both of the last two posters and think we generally agree. There are all sorts of things that affect our opinion of a city or port:

the amount of time we spend there- more is generally better

the weather- a week can be ruined by lots of rain, snow or intense heat

crowds- less is always better

crime- we might really dislike a city only because we fell for a scam or were robbed

our health- a cold or knee problem makes an otherwise lovely day not the best

lack of good planning- museums or churches closed, too crowded, etc.

 

Some people just aren't adventuresome and don't get beyond an organized tour. It is wonderful to get inside a country and spend at least a few days in one city. Even I haven't been to every part of the city in which I've lived for about thirty years, so how could I expect much more in a foreign country?

 

I sort of dread the day when my age and health will limit my independent travel. Last May, I wandered off the ship by myself on May 1st with the goal of seeing a certain street in a port in France and my cell phone as my GPS. It seemed every French person was still asleep at 10, and I wandered into an unsafe area with people yelling at me to leave (talk about doing my research!!!). I was told later that was the beginning of a "no-go" zone. I learned my lesson, but it was a once in a lifetime experience and I'm alive to tell about it...

 

 

 

 

No go zone in France??? You are kidding, right?

[iancal]

There are so many places that become completely different when the cruise ships leave or the sun sets.    When we see cruisers in some cities and know that they are only there for part of the day we sometimes feel sorry for them because they are missing so much.  OTOH, it is great to see the city, town, island quiet down and view the different pulse.

[SRF]

Actually, being in various locations when cruise ships came and left almost convinced me to NEVER cruise. 😄

 

Also, my statements have not been about those who use a port day to scope out a place, but those who feel they have done the location, during their port stop.  THOSE are the people I laugh at.

[K32682]

7 hours ago, iancal said:

There are so many places that become completely different when the cruise ships leave or the sun sets.    When we see cruisers in some cities and know that they are only there for part of the day we sometimes feel sorry for them because they are missing so much.  OTOH, it is great to see the city, town, island quiet down and view the different pulse.

I don't feel sorry for them at all.  I am however delighted they will be leaving soon.  

[GeezerCouple]

6 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

I am not mocking people who have done a cruise or used that one day to scope out a place.

 

I am mocking people who proudly proclaim they have BEEN to somewhere, when they were there for less than a day at a port stop.  Many of whom proclaim to not need to go back, because they have BEEN there.

 

3 hours ago, SRF said:

Actually, being in various locations when cruise ships came and left almost convinced me to NEVER cruise. 😄

 

Also, my statements have not been about those who use a port day to scope out a place, but those who feel they have done the location, during their port stop.  THOSE are the people I laugh at.

 

 

Whoa.

 

Why do you need to "mock" anyone at all?  Or laugh at them?

 

Just because someone has different priorities than you have, or perhaps different opportunities (or knowledge)... you *mock* them?  laugh at them?

 

People have differences of opinions, and different priorities, and as long as they aren't trying to force theirs on you, why do you need to pressure them (by mocking, for example, or other behavior) to experience things the way you prefer?

 

What is so "wrong" if someone would rather use whatever travel time they have to experience smaller time periods in more and more varied locations than you yourself would do (with the same time and money constraints as they have, not to mention similar backgrounds and interests!)? 

 

And then there is the possibility that someone else doesn't have the good fortune you seem to have, such that they don't have enough experience (yet!) to know where they would want to spend "more" time.  As mentioned above, a cruise can provide a very convenient way to get a brief experience of many different places, to see which places one may want to spend more time.

And all of this could matter much more to those with relatively small travel budgets (of time and/or money), so they don't have the luxury of spending "more time in each of more places".

 

Perhaps to "them", they HAVE indeed "been there", because, well, they HAVE indeed BEEN there!

How *much* time is "needed" or preferred or even *possible*... that can vary. 

I certainly understand that they even may not realize what they are "missing" (or that they are missing much of anything), but let them do the best they can, and enjoy it... and enjoy telling others, too, if they wish.

 

Not to mention how the Cambridge Dictionary (yes, of Cambridge, *that* Cambridge...) defines "been" in both "American" and, well, "English" [see their little chart].  In both cases, "been" is used to mean "traveled or visited" or "used as the past participle of 'go' when the action referred to is finished".

A "full immersive experience" is not required, not to mention... just *how* long a time is "needed" in your mind to have "been" somewhere.  I suspect that whatever your personal timing experiences, there would be some other worldly travelers who might look (pitifully? mockingly?) upon you for having spent such a short amount of time, yet claim to have, well, *been* there...

 

But "mocking"...? laughing at others...?

 

???

 

We ALL had to "start someplace".

And not everyone had or has the background (or finances) to understand/afford international travel and "other cultures"... laughing or mocking... that's certainly not going to encourage those who could learn...

 

And Happy New Year to you, too!

 

GC

[cruisemom42]

18 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Perhaps to "them", they HAVE indeed "been there", because, well, they HAVE indeed BEEN there!

How *much* time is "needed" or preferred or even *possible*... that can vary. 

I certainly understand that they even may not realize what they are "missing" (or that they are missing much of anything), but let them do the best they can, and enjoy it... and enjoy telling others, too, if they wish.

 

Not to mention how the Cambridge Dictionary (yes, of Cambridge, *that* Cambridge...) defines "been" in both "American" and, well, "English" [see their little chart].  In both cases, "been" is used to mean "traveled or visited" or "used as the past participle of 'go' when the action referred to is finished".

A "full immersive experience" is not required, not to mention... just *how* long a time is "needed" in your mind to have "been" somewhere.  I suspect that whatever your personal timing experiences, there would be some other worldly travelers who might look (pitifully? mockingly?) upon you for having spent such a short amount of time, yet claim to have, well, *been* there...

 

GC

 

 

I'm not into mocking anyone either. However, I think I understand what the poster you're quoting is referencing:  there are some folks who come to the Ports of Call forum, for example, and will say something like "We will be in Civitavecchia for a day. Please give us alternatives to going into Rome as we've already been there for a day and seen everything."  It is sometimes difficult to bite one's tongue in such situations.

 

On the other hand, I've also read a lot of posts from people who originally took a Med cruise thinking it would be their "one and only" experience. Only to come back and say that they fell in love with (insert city or country) and are going back again for a longer visit. I love hearing that, and it's one reason why I would never be discouraging to those who think they are "only" going to see places on a cruise. 

 

[GeezerCouple]

19 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

I'm not into mocking anyone either. However, I think I understand what the poster you're quoting is referencing:  there are some folks who come to the Ports of Call forum, for example, and will say something like "We will be in Civitavecchia for a day. Please give us alternatives to going into Rome as we've already been there for a day and seen everything."  It is sometimes difficult to bite one's tongue in such situations.

 

On the other hand, I've also read a lot of posts from people who originally took a Med cruise thinking it would be their "one and only" experience. Only to come back and say that they fell in love with (insert city or country) and are going back again for a longer visit. I love hearing that, and it's one reason why I would never be discouraging to those who think they are "only" going to see places on a cruise. 

 

 

It's the *attitude* (almost being proud to "mock" or "laugh at" others)!

 

I can understand thinking that others are "missing too much" or even that they are a bit "clueless" about whether they are missing anything, etc.  But it's how one phrases it (not surprisingly)...

 

Also, who am I (who are we, etc.) to say that it's "better" to explore fewer areas in greater depth than to see many more places, but only briefly?

(Is eating at something like a tapas bar, with many small dishes to taste "better or worse" than dining on one main course and savoring the complex tastes of every single bite... even though each bite is of the "same thing"?  Not quite the same, but maybe not all that dissimilar?)

So what if someone else enjoys spending a shorter amount of time in almost a blur of "top spots" (or whatever) and then moving on to "top spots" elsewhere, rather than spending more time on "other spots or in the same spots" before moving on (often it's instead of; both aren't always possible)...?

 

How could any of "us" determine "how much time/detail/depth" to spend in any one locale?  (It's hard enough to decide that for ourselves; how ever to make that decision *for* someone else!?)

Is a week enough? Two?  Does one need to "live there" for an extended time to *really understand* the area/people?  Hmmm... can one *really* ever understand the experience the way a native does? 

DOES IT MATTER?  What IS the goal?  Do we all need to have the same goal(s)??

 

And IF it's the "prideful crowing" from someone who claims/thinks they've "seen it all" after, say, a multi-hour tour...?  So what!??

Others can find many ways to annoy us, some innocent, and some carefully crafted.  Move on!

We each know what we enjoy, so spend time on that.  Why waste your own time/energy mocking/laughing at others?  I mean... really...!?

 

And yes... seeing some places only whets the appetite for more!

 

GC

 

[calliopecruiser]

11 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

Also, who am I (who are we, etc.) to say that it's "better" to explore fewer areas in greater depth than to see many more places, but only briefly?

 

It's not better, but it is different - so people who choose one or the other should recognize those differences and not equate them.  Someone who says they love Portugal because they spent 6 hours in Lisbon is foolish......Not foolish because they only spent 6 hours in Lisbon, but foolish because they think they can fairly make a statement about the entire country based on a very short time in a very small part of that country.   Likewise, someone who says they're a "world traveler" because they've spent 10 years traveling around the world, but most of their travel time has been spent in the same place is likewise foolish - for thinking that makes them a world traveler. 

 

And those are the things that annoy many people, and the foolishness that is seen often on boards like these.