P&O, Cunard +all Carnival brands changing Amsterdam to Ijmuiden: how to win your case

[molecrochip]

9 minutes ago, docco said:

Thanks for the update.  I'm sure P&O will improve on this, but as things stand now:

 

As booked:  walk off ship whenever you like, and a 20 minute walk, or a frequent tram, to Centraal station.

 

After modification by P&O:  3.5 hours to get to Centraal Station, and maybe another 3.5 hours to get back.

 

And this isn't a 'significant alteration' (meaning 'major changes') to your Package?  Cloud cuckoo land, P&O, and I wonder how many non-disclosure agreements this is going to give rise to so that it's kept out of court.

3.5 hrs isn’t accurate.

 

there were 25+ coaches here on arrival that I counted from our balcony.

 

The first 1250 passengers were off and away very quickly, the issue was then waiting for coaches to come back.

 

You also need to bear in mind that we docked 1.5hrs earlier than if we transited the Ij and docked in central Amsterdam.

[Eglesbrech]

Thanks for the further information Molecrochip.

 

I would still rather have another 1.5 hours in my bed then a leisurely 20 minute walk into the city when I felt like it,  much better than a very long shuttle queue - both ways.

[AndyMichelle]

20 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

3.5 hrs isn’t accurate.

 

there were 25+ coaches here on arrival that I counted from our balcony.

 

The first 1250 passengers were off and away very quickly, the issue was then waiting for coaches to come back.

 

You also need to bear in mind that we docked 1.5hrs earlier than if we transited the Ij and docked in central Amsterdam.

I'm sure it is just teething problems and will improve dramatically, but plenty of people did wait 2 1/2 hours plus the travel time. If passengers had booked knowing this, there is not an argument.

Hope you are having a fantastic time.

Andy

[AlisonB1978]

This just reinforces our thoughts that when we’re off, we’re staying off - no going back to the ship before a night out in Amsterdam. Think I might email P&O asking how they intend to improve on this for our cruise N907 departing 12th April. There’s clearly a lot to learn and they need to have a rolling programme of shuttles rather than waiting for the buses to get to Amsterdam and return

[molecrochip]

8 minutes ago, AlisonB1978 said:

This just reinforces our thoughts that when we’re off, we’re staying off - no going back to the ship before a night out in Amsterdam. Think I might email P&O asking how they intend to improve on this for our cruise N907 departing 12th April. There’s clearly a lot to learn and they need to have a rolling programme of shuttles rather than waiting for the buses to get to Amsterdam and return

One positive is that staff have been out in force to help, organise and explain. It might be cruise number one for this new approach but you can’t knock those at the coal face who are trying their best.

 

Im sure lessons will be learnt and improvements made.

[Eglesbrech]

8 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

One positive is that staff have been out in force to help, organise and explain. It might be cruise number one for this new approach but you can’t knock those at the coal face who are trying their best.

 

Im sure lessons will be learnt and improvements made.

 

The staff at the coal face are usually the poor souls that have to deal with the reality of the unpopular decisions made by senior management. Perhaps if the people who made the decisions had to stand in front of those affected by a 2.5 hour queue and explain it they would not have done so.

 

I hope that people respect the staff and don’t take any frustrations out on them.

 

They may learn lessons and make improvements but that won’t help those who have paid for the current cruise.

[Harry Peterson]

Trustpilot reviews of P&O are looking pretty sick:

 

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/pocruises.com

 

And I doubt most of us have added our views yet!

[Addict]

32 minutes ago, AlisonB1978 said:

This just reinforces our thoughts that when we’re off, we’re staying off - no going back to the ship before a night out in Amsterdam. Think I might email P&O asking how they intend to improve on this for our cruise N907 departing 12th April. There’s clearly a lot to learn and they need to have a rolling programme of shuttles rather than waiting for the buses to get to Amsterdam and return

We're on the N907 12 April cruise too.  Hope they learn a bit from the current procedure and make improvements for the following cruises.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Addict
Clarifying which cruise I was referring to

[Addict]

Oh, yet another reply from P&O today........

 

"Thank you for your email dated 17.03.2019. 

I appreciate you writing to us and I am sorry for any disappointment caused due to Ventura's berth in Amsterdam being changed.  It is fair to say we are constantly looking for the best travel options for our passengers, as we visit more than 200 ports around the world each year, weighing a wide range of factors that include passenger’s enjoyment and experience, tourism options, operations, port fees and other related costs, geopolitical factors and guest safety. The change has been made due to operational reasons with this in mind. As you may be aware from our original response, we have now extended Ventura's stay in Amsterdam to factor in the travelling times. Therefore, you will still have the same amount of time in central Amsterdam and we will be running complimentary shuttle buses for the duration of our time in the port of call. The times of the shuttle buses will be confirmed on board and the service will be running throughout the day and night. The last shuttle bus will arrive back to the ship approximately 30 minutes prior to Ventura's scheduled departure on 15 April 2019. The shuttle buses will be operating once Ventura has docked into IJmuiden and once clearance has been granted by the port authority. The pickup and drop off point will be at the Museum Square underground parking lot in Amsterdam. The shuttle buses will be running frequently throughout the day and the times during the overnight call may differ slightly. However, as mentioned above the times will be confirmed to you on board.  We do mention in our booking conditions that we reserve the right to amend the berth arrangements and itineraries should this be necessary for any reason. Although we naturally avoid making such changes, I am so sorry that this condition has become so relevant in your case. As P&O Cruises does not consider the berth change to be a significant alteration, no gestures are being offered and if a booking is cancelled the relevant charges will apply. I am sorry for the further disappointment this decision may cause.  I do hope with the above information in mind you will be able to look forward to your cruise again, as it will be our pleasure to welcome you back on board.  I wish you a wonderful cruise and wish to assure you of our best intentions at all times."   I have responded yet again, and queried these two points especially......   Quote from your email: As you may be aware from our original response, we have now extended Ventura's stay in Amsterdam to factor in the travelling times." As P&O never give exact docking and departure times, other than (e.g.) Early Morning to Late Afternoon, it makes it almost impossible to arrange alternative transport into Amsterdam, prior to boarding a cruise. You only find out the exact docking times on a daily basis once onboard the ship. So it's very hard to know if the docking times have been extended or not, due to the fact that we never knew what the original docking times were in the first place.   Second Quote from your email: "The pickup and drop off point will be at the Museum Square underground parking lot in Amsterdam." The original dropping off point was Museum Square. We were advised that this was subsequently changed to De Ruijterkade-Oost, the area behind Amsterdam Train Station. Are you now saying that it has yet again been changed back to Museum Square?"

[AndyMichelle]

Just seen a picture of the queue for the shuttle bus back to the ship, it is massive.

Ironically, it appears to be just along from where the ship would have docked initially....

Andy

[Eglesbrech]

4 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Just seen a picture of the queue for the shuttle bus back to the ship, it is massive.

Ironically, it appears to be just along from where the ship would have docked initially....

Andy

 

Are your in laws intending to do anything about it?

[AndyMichelle]

6 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

 

Are your in laws intending to do anything about it?

Probably not, I think overall they have still enjoyed the trip so, although it is frustrating, I doubt they will bother. I think we try to look for positives and wouldn't want it to define their break.

Andy

[Eglesbrech]

13 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Probably not, I think overall they have still enjoyed the trip so, although it is frustrating, I doubt they will bother. I think we try to look for positives and wouldn't want it to define their break.

Andy

Glad they were able to enjoy the holiday in spite of the inconvenience.

[AndyMichelle]

22 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Glad they were able to enjoy the holiday in spite of the inconvenience.

When you see what happened to Viking Sky, waiting for a bus seems just that, an inconvenience.

We often wait a long time and work hard for these holidays so you have to savour them.

Andy

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, AndyMichelle said:

When you see what happened to Viking Sky, waiting for a bus seems just that, an inconvenience.

We often wait a long time and work hard for these holidays so you have to savour them.

Andy

 

The difference is that the bus situation was entirely avoidable if P&O had stuck with the port they advertised and sold to passengers. The Viking situation according to all accounts was not, so I have every sympathy with them.

 

I agree that we need to savour holidays (and at my age each new day for thatvmatter😀)

 

[AndyMichelle]

40 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

 

The difference is that the bus situation was entirely avoidable if P&O had stuck with the port they advertised and sold to passengers. The Viking situation according to all accounts was not, so I have every sympathy with them.

 

I agree that we need to savour holidays (and at my age each new day for thatvmatter😀)

 

Totally agree that it was avoidable on P&Os part, but once there, you just need to make the most of it and if you feel you need to take it further, do it when home.

 

I heard somebody is removing their tips because they had to wait for a bus, because that really is their cabin stewards fault!!!!

 

We should savour every day, regardless of age... I'm sure you have plenty left still to savour.

 

Andy

[CarlaMarie]

 

6 hours ago, Addict said:

Oh, yet another reply from P&O today........

 

"Thank you for your email dated 17.03.2019. 

I appreciate you writing to us and I am sorry for any disappointment caused due to Ventura's berth in Amsterdam being changed.  It is fair to say we are constantly looking for the best travel options for our passengers, as we visit more than 200 ports around the world each year, weighing a wide range of factors that include passenger’s enjoyment and experience, tourism options, operations, port fees and other related costs, geopolitical factors and guest safety. The change has been made due to operational reasons with this in mind. As you may be aware from our original response, we have now extended Ventura's stay in Amsterdam to factor in the travelling times. Therefore, you will still have the same amount of time in central Amsterdam and we will be running complimentary shuttle buses for the duration of our time in the port of call. The times of the shuttle buses will be confirmed on board and the service will be running throughout the day and night. The last shuttle bus will arrive back to the ship approximately 30 minutes prior to Ventura's scheduled departure on 15 April 2019. The shuttle buses will be operating once Ventura has docked into IJmuiden and once clearance has been granted by the port authority. The pickup and drop off point will be at the Museum Square underground parking lot in Amsterdam. The shuttle buses will be running frequently throughout the day and the times during the overnight call may differ slightly. However, as mentioned above the times will be confirmed to you on board.  We do mention in our booking conditions that we reserve the right to amend the berth arrangements and itineraries should this be necessary for any reason. Although we naturally avoid making such changes, I am so sorry that this condition has become so relevant in your case. As P&O Cruises does not consider the berth change to be a significant alteration, no gestures are being offered and if a booking is cancelled the relevant charges will apply. I am sorry for the further disappointment this decision may cause.  I do hope with the above information in mind you will be able to look forward to your cruise again, as it will be our pleasure to welcome you back on board.  I wish you a wonderful cruise and wish to assure you of our best intentions at all times."   I have responded yet again, and queried these two points especially......   Quote from your email: As you may be aware from our original response, we have now extended Ventura's stay in Amsterdam to factor in the travelling times." As P&O never give exact docking and departure times, other than (e.g.) Early Morning to Late Afternoon, it makes it almost impossible to arrange alternative transport into Amsterdam, prior to boarding a cruise. You only find out the exact docking times on a daily basis once onboard the ship. So it's very hard to know if the docking times have been extended or not, due to the fact that we never knew what the original docking times were in the first place.   Second Quote from your email: "The pickup and drop off point will be at the Museum Square underground parking lot in Amsterdam." The original dropping off point was Museum Square. We were advised that this was subsequently changed to De Ruijterkade-Oost, the area behind Amsterdam Train Station. Are you now saying that it has yet again been changed back to Museum Square?"

 Could you let us all know what they say please regarding the drop off point? 

 

I hear today that passengers have missed P&O excursions because they couldn't get off the ship to get to their coaches on time.

Edited March 24, 2019 by CarlaMarie

[molecrochip]

2 hours ago, CarlaMarie said:

 

 Could you let us all know what they say please regarding the drop off point? 

 

I hear today that passengers have missed P&O excursions because they couldn't get off the ship to get to their coaches on time.

No one should have missed tours. Instructions were very clear and priority was being given where necessary.

 

Tours were picking up at the bottom of the gangway so no chance of getting lost!

 

Yesterday’s issues were because people began queuing over an hour before we had docked and been given customs clearance .

[Harry Peterson]

6 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Yesterday’s issues were because people began queuing over an hour before we had docked and been given customs clearance .

Sorry, but yesterday's issues were wholly because P&O decided to change the destination port from the advertised Amsterdam to Ijmuiden to save themselves money and continue their feud with the City of Amsterdam.

[kruzseeka]

8 hours ago, molecrochip said:

No one should have missed tours. Instructions were very clear and priority was being given where necessary.

 

Tours were picking up at the bottom of the gangway so no chance of getting lost!

 

Yesterday’s issues were because people began queuing over an hour before we had docked and been given customs clearance .

 

Understandable in a way, given that there would be a limited number of shuttle buses - if you missed out on the first wave of coaches leaving, then there would be an even longer wait whilst they made the return trip.  

[hansol1966]

Mole were you on this cruise as I was and do you have an association with P&O as you sound like voice for the company......I was on this cruise and I saw the buses 19 shuttle ..3 disability great job well done....excursions.  1.30  first embarkation ...shambles...huge queues..after the 19 buses left there waiting still on the quay 200 passengers till the buses returned, then a lot of passengers were waiting for the buses to return..3.00 pm plus after boarding arrival in Amsterdam ironically near to the passenger terminal where Azura would have docked originally at 4.00 pm...hardly a full day in Amsterdam.

[molecrochip]

6 hours ago, hansol1966 said:

Mole were you on this cruise as I was and do you have an association with P&O as you sound like voice for the company......I was on this cruise and I saw the buses 19 shuttle ..3 disability great job well done....excursions.  1.30  first embarkation ...shambles...huge queues..after the 19 buses left there waiting still on the quay 200 passengers till the buses returned, then a lot of passengers were waiting for the buses to return..3.00 pm plus after boarding arrival in Amsterdam ironically near to the passenger terminal where Azura would have docked originally at 4.00 pm...hardly a full day in Amsterdam.

I was on the cruise and thankfully no association with P&O.

 

I just can’t understand the herd mentality. People were queueing at 12:30 when we weren’t even due in until 1:30 - daft! 

 

People slso forget that if we had transited the Ij then we wouldn’t have docked until 3pm-4pm.

 

Its not the ship’s crew that made the decision about where to dock but given the hand they were dealt, they performed well. Not perfect, just well.

Edited March 27, 2019 by molecrochip

[kruzseeka]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

I was on the cruise and thankfully no association with P&O.

 

I just can’t understand the herd mentality. People were queueing at 12:30 when we weren’t even due in until 1:30 - daft! 

 

People slso forget that if we had transited the Ij then we wouldn’t have docked until 3pm-4pm.

 

Its not the ship’s crew that made the decision about where to dock but given the hand they were dealt, they performed well. Not perfect, just well.

 

I haven't seen much (any?) criticism of the crew.  From what I read on hear it's P&O people have an issue with - and you've hit the nail on the head in respect of the crew and 'the hand they they were dealt' - by P&O!

I wouldn't be surprised if privately the crew are also feeling disgruntled.  As an employee who would want to start work each day knowing they are going to be facing unhappy customers and trying to manage a very unsatisfactory situation re shuttle transfers?  And each Amsterdam cruise will no doubt bring the same problems with a new crop of passengers.  Unhappy passengers and stressed employees.  Not good. 

But all down to P&O/Carnival.  They may be sending a message to Amsterdam, but the City Council I guess will be laughing up their sleeves at the PR disaster for P&O.  There are no winners here.  My guess is that Amsterdam will be replaced by other destinations in the fullness of time - the real trump card for Carnival .......at least until other ports try the same trick!  

Edited March 27, 2019 by kruzseeka

[Eglesbrech]

12 minutes ago, kruzseeka said:

 

I haven't seen much (any?) criticism of the crew.  From what I read on hear it's P&O people have an issue with - and you've hit the nail on the head in respect of the crew and 'the hand they they were dealt' - by P&O!

I wouldn't be surprised if privately the crew are also feeling disgruntled.  As an employee who would want to start work each day knowing they are going to be facing unhappy customers and trying to manage a very unsatisfactory situation re shuttle transfers?  And each Amsterdam cruise will no doubt bring the same problems with a new crop of passengers.  Unhappy passengers and stressed employees.  Not good. 

But all down to P&O/Carnival.  They may be sending a message to Amsterdam, but the City Council I guess will be laughing up their sleeves at the PR disaster for P&O.  There are no winners here.  My guess is that Amsterdam will be replaced by other destinations in the fullness of time - the real trump card for Carnival .......at least until other ports try the same trick!  

 

The previous location in central Amsterdam was also always great for the crew as well. They could spend any off duty time in a major city just a short walk from the ship. It’s not the first time I have seen bleary eyed waiters the “ morning after the night before”

 

I agree that if this level of customer dissatisfaction goes on Amsterdam will be replaced for the simple reason that anyone in the know will not book a cruise that involves two days of shuttle hassle. And other ports are already thinking of going the same way, Venice for one.

[emam]

2 hours ago, kruzseeka said:

 There are no winners here.  My guess is that Amsterdam will be replaced by other destinations in the fullness of time - the real trump card for Carnival .......at least until other ports try the same trick!  

 

1 hour ago, Eglesbrech said:

 

I agree that if this level of customer dissatisfaction goes on Amsterdam will be replaced for the simple reason that anyone in the know will not book a cruise that involves two days of shuttle hassle. And other ports are already thinking of going the same way, Venice for one.

 

In the current brochure they are advertising the short breaks (up to 5 days) to Amsterdam up to March 2021. However the 7 day cruises are Amsterdam up to October 2019 then in November it has Amsterdam (from Rotterdam). So maybe they will change it to Rotterdam.

 

With regards to amendments to the brochure, mine came direct from P&O, so they could send an amendment out, though I doubt they will. Don't know how they would work it for the ones sent to the TA.