P&O, Cunard +all Carnival brands changing Amsterdam to Ijmuiden: how to win your case

[daiB]

42 minutes ago, SandraMeyer said:

Thank you for your information.  The difference in approach between the two companies is very relevant.  As someone affected by this change I feel I am being fobbed off by P&O who are offering nothing by way of apology or goodwill gesture.  It feels like another case of a big company taking advantage of its customers.  If others are happy to be taken advantage of that's fine but I will keep making a fuss until I receive better treatment. Thanks again.

The company in question is going To Rotterdam a totally different port, not a port associated with Amsterdam. 

[SandraMeyer]

My complaint is with P&O. It seems they have a high handed way of treating their customers - regardless of where they're sailing to.  there are a fair few different categories of complaint on their Twitter feed.

[CarlaMarie]

I follow marine and sea trade news, and all the reports from these websites state that the cruise companies are moving to Rotterdam or Imjuiden to make a stand against the €8 cruise passenger port tax - there have been no other operational reasons for the move reported as of yet.

 

MSC in particular have been very vocal on this issue, and I believe from what they have said, the city of Amsterdam have a hole in their city budget - which this new tax will fill nicely. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by CarlaMarie

[pete14]

1 hour ago, SandraMeyer said:

Pete14 - pleased you have happy memories.  But as a group of passengers who feel very unhappy with the service from P&O we're perfectly at liberty to share advice and support to each other. We are also perfectly at liberty to decide whether to act on that advice. This is where public forums and social media can be of real benefit.  Because you have high regard for a company doesn't exclude others making a stand when they feel that same company is deliberately misleading them.

 

Sandra, I agree that sharing advice and support is a good thing but in this instance, it seems like a crusade that is built on supposition and hearsay. It may take a while before facts are properly established and maybe best to wait until they are.

[SandraMeyer]

1 minute ago, pete14 said:

 

Sandra, I agree that sharing advice and support is a good thing but in this instance, it seems like a crusade that is built on supposition and hearsay. It may take a while before facts are properly established and maybe best to wait until they are.

But it's not supposition and hearsay.  We are a group of passengers who have been misled ((deliberately, as P&O knew about this change but continued to sell the package as docking in Amsterdam)  and have complained and been told there's no compensation, change or refund allowed. The ball is entirely in the company's hands to do something and they are refusing to do so. That is fact. And as a passenger I am not going to simply allow the company to get away with this shoddy service without at least trying to get some sort of resolution. 

[Harry Peterson]

9 minutes ago, SandraMeyer said:

But it's not supposition and hearsay.  We are a group of passengers who have been misled ((deliberately, as P&O knew about this change but continued to sell the package as docking in Amsterdam)  and have complained and been told there's no compensation, change or refund allowed. The ball is entirely in the company's hands to do something and they are refusing to do so. That is fact. And as a passenger I am not going to simply allow the company to get away with this shoddy service without at least trying to get some sort of resolution. 

Spot on, Sandra.  Exactly the same here.  

 

I really do fail to see why the existence of this thread, which can be very easily ignored by anyone it offends (though why on earth it should offend anyone escapes me) is causing a small number of people so many problems.

[kruzseeka]

3 hours ago, docco said:

In any situation where a large number of customers feel they’ve been badly treated by a company, and those customers are planning action against that company, the sharing of information can be very useful. That’s what this thread is about.

 

If you’re not affected it’s inevitably going to be boring.

 

Just unfollow and ignore the thread - it won’t bore you then. 

I agree.  Whilst ever there are posters who have information, opinion or comments to make on a thread why should anyone who isn't interested be bothered or seek to suppress that thread?   I find the 'boring' comments often thrown out baffling.  Why should anyone read a thread they have no interest in?   Exhanging views is the essence of a forum which includes support and challenge.  As long as that is done respectfully I can't see a problem.

[pete14]

7 minutes ago, SandraMeyer said:

But it's not supposition and hearsay.  We are a group of passengers who have been misled ((deliberately, as P&O knew about this change but continued to sell the package as docking in Amsterdam)  and have complained and been told there's no compensation, change or refund allowed. The ball is entirely in the company's hands to do something and they are refusing to do so. That is fact. And as a passenger I am not going to simply allow the company to get away with this shoddy service without at least trying to get some sort of resolution. 

 

I don’t dispute that you feel as though you were misled but how do you know it was deliberate? Do you have evidence that they knew about the change when you made your booking? Although I am not a legal expert, I guess these are questions that you will need to provide evidence to substantiate in any proceedings against them and also if the BBC are to take up the case in their programming.  

P&O’s website now makes it clear that Amsterdam cruises are docking at Ijmuiden. 

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, pete14 said:

.........enlighten us about your legal qualifications and experience of British law.

I'm afraid for reasons of confidentiality I'll have to leave you guessing about that one, but I really don't mind what conclusions you draw.

 

Anyone's entitled to discuss the best and most appropriate course of action, legal or otherwise, in any given situation, though, and I'm very much appreciating the comments and advice of others.

 

By the way, there's no such thing as British law.  We're talking English law in the case of contracts made with P&O Cruises.

[mercury7289]

Ha Ha

 

Very funny post,

 

Perry Como is alive and well!

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

Ha Ha

 

Very funny post,

 

Perry Como is alive and well!

Perry Como?

[ozzysdad]

2 minutes ago, pete14 said:

 

Sandra, I agree that sharing advice and support is a good thing but in this instance, it seems like a crusade that is built on supposition and hearsay. It may take a while before facts are properly established and maybe best to wait until they are.

Supposition and hearsay normally fill a void when a simple explanation is lacking.

 

In most other walks of life is it acceptable to advertise a product, sell it and then strip it back with no recourse? 

[mercury7289]

3 minutes ago, docco said:

Perry Como?

Yes the bloke that works down the fish shop with Elvis!

 

Predictability is a wonderful sport!

[SandraMeyer]

1 hour ago, pete14 said:

 

I don’t dispute that you feel as though you were misled but how do you know it was deliberate? Do you have evidence that they knew about the change when you made your booking? Although I am not a legal expert, I guess these are questions that you will need to provide evidence to substantiate in any proceedings against them and also if the BBC are to take up the case in their programming.  

P&O’s website now makes it clear that Amsterdam cruises are docking at Ijmuiden. 

And when we booked it clearly stated we were docking in Amsterdam and that's why we booked.  My complaint stands and I'll look to raise it with those who are also impacted and those who can effect a satisfactory resolution.  Thanks for your contribution. 

[pete14]

1 hour ago, SandraMeyer said:

And when we booked it clearly stated we were docking in Amsterdam and that's why we booked.  My complaint stands and I'll look to raise it with those who are also impacted and those who can effect a satisfactory resolution.  Thanks for your contribution. 

 

Sandra, I do sympathise with your situation and am disappointed that P&O do not appear to be being very helpful. I am sure when you booked it said you would be docking in Amsterdam but where is the evidence that at that time P&O knew you wouldn’t be? To me, this is crucial.

If you booked through an agent, it should be them trying to resolve this for you and they may have greater success. 

[SandraMeyer]

2 minutes ago, pete14 said:

 

Sandra, I do sympathise with your situation and am disappointed that P&O do not appear to be being very helpful. I am sure when you booked it said you would be docking in Amsterdam but where is the evidence that at that time P&O knew you wouldn’t be? To me, this is crucial.

If you booked through an agent, it should be them trying to resolve this for you and they may have greater success. 

Our agents have been of no help at all. 

[Underwatr]

7 hours ago, docco said:

That’s an odd viewpoint, and you clearly have little or no knowledge of English law. Let me enlighten you.

 

P&O are trying to use the terms and conditions to get out of allowing cancellations. They claim that the diversion is for ‘operational reasons’. To succeed in their claim they need to explain what those reasons are. They won’t. 

 

Well, good luck with that.

[janny444]

4 hours ago, daiB said:

The company in question is going To Rotterdam a totally different port, not a port associated with Amsterdam. 

Maybe not associated with Amsterdam but still a change of POC from Amsterdam and offering a free shuttle back to Amsterdam  with a quoted travel time of 50 mins each way...P&O quoted 40 mins each way  but my point was trying to show the different approach by the two companies and as I said I would leave it for everyone to decide which company had the better " customer friendly" approach

[daiB]

8 minutes ago, janny444 said:

Maybe not associated with Amsterdam but still a change of POC from Amsterdam and offering a free shuttle back to Amsterdam  with a quoted travel time of 50 mins each way...P&O quoted 40 mins each way  but my point was trying to show the different approach by the two companies and as I said I would leave it for everyone to decide which company had the better " customer friendly" approach

Sorry it is not a change in POC. As Ijmuiden is classed as the port for Amsterdam. The ferry leaves Newcastle every night, well North Shields and sails to Amsterdam, or in reality Ijmuiden.

[Harry Peterson]

22 minutes ago, daiB said:

Sorry it is not a change in POC. As Ijmuiden is classed as the port for Amsterdam. The ferry leaves Newcastle every night, well North Shields and sails to Amsterdam, or in reality Ijmuiden.

We're talking technicalities here, though, aren't we.  What really matters is whether the ship will be docked within walking distance of the centre of Amsterdam.

 

As advertised, it was.  Now it isn't.  It now involves what will probably, with queuing, amount to around a two hour round trip, and that's not even to a central location in Amsterdam.

[pete14]

2 hours ago, SandraMeyer said:

Our agents have been of no help at all. 

 

No help or not, as they made the booking on your behalf, it is their job to handle all aspects of the booking for you. It may be best if you spoke to them again and insisted they sort it out for you. We always book direct with P&O and their customer services have been excellent when we have needed them.

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, daiB said:

With your vast experience or the law you should know that technicalities are important. 

 

All i am doing is pointing out to you and those you are trying to join you is that it is not as clear cut as you clearly think.

Technicalities are indeed important when it comes to legal issues, but the issue at stake here is not the 'classification' of a port - it's a simple question of fact (not law) whether docking takes place, as originally described, in the Port of Amsterdam itself (with its ease of access to the centre) or Ijmuiden, with lengthy bus transfers required and no ease of access to the centre.

 

It's every bit as clearcut as we think - it's a change of port, and it's  dramatically more difficult access to the centre.

[Lizzie53]

Getting back to the reason for the change of Terminal. We have spoken to P & O again and they have agreed to detail the reasons for their decision in an email for submission to ABTA with our claim. It will be interesting to see what they say.

[Harry Peterson]

21 minutes ago, pete14 said:

 

No help or not, as they made the booking on your behalf, it is their job to handle all aspects of the booking for you. It may be best if you spoke to them again and insisted they sort it out for you. We always book direct with P&O and their customer services have been excellent when we have needed them.

Most, if not all, agents will point out that they act for you as agent for the cruise company.  Here's some typical wording:

 

We act as an agent for Principals/Suppliers. This means that We obtain bookings for and on behalf of Principals/Suppliers. All bookings are subject to the relevant Principal's/Supplier's Terms and Conditions. Details of the Principal's/Supplier's Terms and Conditions are provided in their current published brochure or can be found on their website.

 

As such, there's not a lot they can do, apart from passing on complaints to P&O, which is a pretty pointless exercise, because P&O will always just say 'tough' - it's the way they operate.  Rather like Ryanair.

 

I'm sure those of us affected have already contacted our TAs and asked them to pass on our complaints to P&O - but I'm equally sure that it will achieve nothing.  And a complaint to P&O on a direct booking would achieve the same - nothing.

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, Lizzie53 said:

Getting back to the reason for the change of Terminal. We have spoken to P & O again and they have agreed to detail the reasons for their decision in an email for submission to ABTA with our claim. It will be interesting to see what they say.

It will - and my money (and this IS just an opinion) would be on them inventing a ***** and bull story about not being able to access the Port of Amsterdam in all weathers, so they're doing their very best for their poor, long-suffering customers by moving to Ijmuiden, where weather is less of an issue.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that these changes apply to all times of the year, including times when weather is rarely an issue, that the problem doesn't arise that often, and that the weather predicted for 2019/2020 is no different now from when the original arrangements were made and advertised.

 

If they do happen to put that forward, there are those of us who will contest its accuracy, and point out what we all know (opinion again, I'm afraid) is the reality - the 8 Euro charge and a vendetta by Carnival and CLIA against any city that dares to try to levy a charge, even one as small as this per passenger, and even one that already charges a tourist levy to those who stay in hotels.