P&O, Cunard +all Carnival brands changing Amsterdam to Ijmuiden: how to win your case

[Harry Peterson]

8 hours ago, daiB said:

They have said they will dock sooner and leave later so you will have the same time or more in Amsterdam.

That's deliberately misleading information being put out by P&O, though their staff are being told to tell irate customers that.  If you ask them to confirm the actual times, they'll tell you that they can't yet do that..

 

It also fails completely to address the point that Haza has made - you can't get on and off the ship and into Amsterdam whenever you want, because of the time it would take.  Just three trips a day from ship to Amsterdam (which would have been perfectly feasible as things were originally advertised) would consume, with queuing, at least 12 hours, quite apart from the inconvenience, and it's certainly not going to be an extra 12 hours in port.

 

There are also, as someone else has pointed out, issues for anyone who has medical conditions that prevent them from standing in queues for any length of time, and it isn't yet clear what the access will be like for anyone using wheelchairs or mobility scooters.

[Harry Peterson]

7 hours ago, daiB said:

If you look at my first post i was pointing out that the situation was not as clear cut as was being posted about.

 

BTW it is all of the Carnival Cruise lines doing this not just P&O. So perhaps you have the wrong target.

The target is whichever company you're booked with, whether it be P&O, Cunard, Costa, Princess, Aida, Carnival, Seabourn or  Holland America - makes no difference, they're all Carnival-owned and they're all run by accountants shaving every last penny or cent off wherever they can, Ryanair-style, whatever the impact on their customers.

[AlisonB1978]

16 minutes ago, docco said:

That's deliberately misleading information being put out by P&O, though their staff are being told to tell irate customers that.  If you ask them to confirm the actual times, they'll tell you that they can't yet do that..

 

It also fails completely to address the point that Haza has made - you can't get on and off the ship and into Amsterdam whenever you want, because of the time it would take.  Just three trips a day from ship to Amsterdam (which would have been perfectly feasible as things were originally advertised) would consume, with queuing, at least 12 hours, quite apart from the inconvenience, and it's certainly not going to be an extra 12 hours in port.

 

There are also, as someone else has pointed out, issues for anyone who has medical conditions that prevent them from standing in queues for any length of time, and it isn't yet clear what the access will be like for anyone using wheelchairs or mobility scooters.

I was informed yesterday by P&O that the scheduled departure time for N907 on day 2 is now 7pm, with the last shuttle leaving around 5:30. I agree that the ability to pop to and from the ship is severely impacted but they’re not going to change it. We’ve concluded that we’ll be spending the entire day and evening away from the ship, meaning they won’t be getting any on board spend from us at all for the time we’re docked “for Amsterdam”.  We’ve booked restaurants etc. accordingly now

[SandraMeyer]

32 minutes ago, AlisonB1978 said:

I was informed yesterday by P&O that the scheduled departure time for N907 on day 2 is now 7pm, with the last shuttle leaving around 5:30. I agree that the ability to pop to and from the ship is severely impacted but they’re not going to change it. We’ve concluded that we’ll be spending the entire day and evening away from the ship, meaning they won’t be getting any on board spend from us at all for the time we’re docked “for Amsterdam”.  We’ve booked restaurants etc. accordingly now

Hi Alison - we're 'in the same boat'. I wasn't expecting P&O to change the docking arrangements but it would be nice if they accepted responsibility for the immense disappointment caused and how they've handled the situation very badly.  I also think customers should have been given some form of compensation or opportunity to change their booking (a full refund would be nice - and pigs might fly) instead of which they say there's nothing they can do. A satisfactory resolution to this is entirely in their hands but they refuse to do the right thing. As my husband comments 'not everything that's dishonest is illegal '.  We will continue to complain to P&O (even if we get nowhere) and will be lodging our ABTA complaint this weekend.  Aside from all the disappointment and inconvenience I hope all fellow Amsterdam passengers on this thread have a very enjoyable time and hope maybe to meet some of you whilst we're on board.  Best of luck to all 😀

[pete14]

1 hour ago, docco said:

The target is whichever company you're booked with, whether it be P&O, Cunard, Costa, Princess, Aida, Carnival, Seabourn or  Holland America - makes no difference, they're all Carnival-owned and they're all run by accountants shaving every last penny or cent off wherever they can, Ryanair-style, whatever the impact on their customers.

 

This is not the first thread of the many where you make derogatory and possibly defamatory comments about P&O and Carnival yet you continue to book cruises with them. As a shareholder I thank you for your custom but wonder why you are clearly still attracted to the brand?

[SandraMeyer]

2 minutes ago, pete14 said:

 

This is not the first thread of the many where you make derogatory and possibly defamatory comments about P&O and Carnival yet you continue to book cruises with them. As a shareholder I thank you for your custom but wonder why you are clearly still attracted to the brand?

Ever heard of free speech?  I wondered why you were so 'invested' in this exchange of thoughts, genuine complaints and sharing of ideas to seek compensation for a cynical move made by a company which seems deaf to the justified grievances of its passengers.  As I've said before on this thread - first P&O/Carnival Group cruise and definitely the last. 

[Harry Peterson]

16 minutes ago, pete14 said:

 

This is not the first thread of the many where you make derogatory and possibly defamatory comments about P&O and Carnival yet you continue to book cruises with them. As a shareholder I thank you for your custom but wonder why you are clearly still attracted to the brand?

I can assure you that none of my comments about P&O or Carnival are defamatory - at least in the legal sense of that word. 

 

As to why I've booked cruises with them, perhaps it's because I often have greater expectations of them (as a fellow Carnival shareholder, actually) than they sometimes actually live up to.  I've also made some very positive comments about them, but you've not mentioned those!

[P-L-B]

2 hours ago, SandraMeyer said:

Ever heard of free speech?  I wondered why you were so 'invested' in this exchange of thoughts, genuine complaints and sharing of ideas to seek compensation for a cynical move made by a company which seems deaf to the justified grievances of its passengers.  As I've said before on this thread - first P&O/Carnival Group cruise and definitely the last. 

Regarding 'sharing of ideas to seek compensation' could this not be achieved via your Travel insurance.

Edited February 23, 2019 by P-L-B

[kruzseeka]

1 hour ago, pete14 said:

 

This is not the first thread of the many where you make derogatory and possibly defamatory comments about P&O and Carnival yet you continue to book cruises with them. As a shareholder I thank you for your custom but wonder why you are clearly still attracted to the brand?

 

I think people make decisions on which cruise line they choose to travel with on the basis of many considerations - itinerary/price/perceived value for money/ambience/departure points/service - and no doubts lots of other preferences.   For most of us, it's a 'best fit'.  But surely that doesn't preclude us from questioning or even criticising certain aspects of 'the product'. 

Once customers pay their money, then they have expectations and I would think that even the most loyal and supportive of P&O customers can appreciate that sometimes things don't match those expectations.  Of course, if you choose to excuse or ignore any such events, that's your prerogative but you can't expect everyone to share that point of view. 

We are pretty easy going - have never complained about a cruise we've done although we've experienced some disappointments along the way - on a number of different cruise lines.   But it's naive and simplistic to my mind to ditch a cruise company because something has 'gone wrong' - if it's still a 'best fit' even with previous problems, for future cruises it may still be the best choice for you.  

P.S. I too am a shareholder but that doesn't mean I can't sympathise with those affected by this decision which will affect passengers' enjoyment and experience of 'an overnight' stay in Amsterdam - I think it's far from what they thought they'd booked. 

[eddie11]

Good post.  I concur

[Harry Peterson]

44 minutes ago, P-L-B said:

Regarding 'sharing of ideas to seek compensation' could this not be achieved via your Travel insurance.

A good idea - and thanks for the suggestion.  It could be possible on some particularly comprehensive policies, but probably not many, if any.

 

Worth checking, though.

[SandraMeyer]

36 minutes ago, P-L-B said:

Regarding 'sharing of ideas to seek compensation' could this not be achieved via your Travel insurance.

I'm following every route to try to obtain compensation, including sharing ideas with passengers also affected. 

[daiB]

4 hours ago, docco said:

That's deliberately misleading information being put out by P&O, though their staff are being told to tell irate customers that.  If you ask them to confirm the actual times, they'll tell you that they can't yet do that..

 

It also fails completely to address the point that Haza has made - you can't get on and off the ship and into Amsterdam whenever you want, because of the time it would take.  Just three trips a day from ship to Amsterdam (which would have been perfectly feasible as things were originally advertised) would consume, with queuing, at least 12 hours, quite apart from the inconvenience, and it's certainly not going to be an extra 12 hours in port.

 

There are also, as someone else has pointed out, issues for anyone who has medical conditions that prevent them from standing in queues for any length of time, and it isn't yet clear what the access will be like for anyone using wheelchairs or mobility scooters.

You have no proof that it is misleading. That is only your opinion please do not express it as fact.

 

You also have no idea of how the shuttles will work as this has not happened yet.

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, daiB said:

You have no proof that it is misleading. That is only your opinion please do not express it as fact.

 

You also have no idea of how the shuttles will work as this has not happened yet.

I’m afraid you’re not managing to distinguish between fact and opinion. Most statements in these forums include opinions - that’s what forums are all about.

 

As I said, it isn’t yet clear what the access is going to be like for wheelchairs and mobility scooters, but it’s a pretty crucial point, isn’t it?  And the queuing issue is equally important.

[daiB]

7 minutes ago, docco said:

I’m afraid you’re not managing to distinguish between fact and opinion. Most statements in these forums include opinions - that’s what forums are all about.

 

As I said, it isn’t yet clear what the access is going to be like for wheelchairs and mobility scooters, but it’s a pretty crucial point, isn’t it?  And the queuing issue is equally important.

Sorry but your comments as below, are given as fact.

 

“That's deliberately misleading information being put out by P&O, though their staff are being told to tell irate customers that.  If you ask them to confirm the actual times, they'll tell you that they can't yet do that..”

 

No where do you say it’s your opinion and you have no proof that the above is happening. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by daiB

[mercury7289]

9 minutes ago, docco said:

I’m afraid you’re not managing to distinguish between fact and opinion. Most statements in these forums include opinions - that’s what forums are all about.

 

As I said, it isn’t yet clear what the access is going to be like for wheelchairs and mobility scooters, but it’s a pretty crucial point, isn’t it?  And the queuing issue is equally important.

But is this not going to be the same at Zeebrugger for Bruge and tendering at St Peters Port?

[P-L-B]

1 hour ago, mercury7289 said:

But is this not going to be the same at Zeebrugger for Bruge and tendering at St Peters Port?

Yes that's true and there are other ports with similar situations.

I think you will find that some are annoyed/disappointed because there has been a change to the docking location re Amsterdam after they have booked.

However after the dust has settled people booking future cruises will just except the situation.

Edited February 23, 2019 by P-L-B

[mercury7289]

13 minutes ago, P-L-B said:

Yes that's true and there are other ports with similar situations.

I think you will find that some are annoyed/disappointed because there has been a change to the docking location re Amsterdam after they have booked.

However after the dust has settled people booking future cruises will just except the situation.

Understand that, the point was that the cruise in question visits 3 ports only.

 

All of which have had docking problems in the past.

 

I have looked through the 2019 brochures, summer and winter and for this particular cruise, Amsterdam is a destination but there is do no mention of the docking location that I can see

 

Concerned fellow cruisers are being wound up.

 

IMHO all need to look forward and enjoy.

 

 

[janny444]

3 hours ago, daiB said:

Sorry but your comments as below, are given as fact.

 

“That's deliberately misleading information being put out by P&O, though their staff are being told to tell irate customers that.  If you ask them to confirm the actual times, they'll tell you that they can't yet do that..”

 

No where do you say it’s your opinion and you have no proof that the above is happening. 

Hi...that is why I have asked P&O 2 direct questions...how many shuttle buses are being provided and what shelter is going to be provided so that it is not my opinion but upon P&O answering my questions then it will become fact

[P-L-B]

1 hour ago, mercury7289 said:

Understand that, the point was that the cruise in question visits 3 ports only.

 

All of which have had docking problems in the past.

 

I have looked through the 2019 brochures, summer and winter and for this particular cruise, Amsterdam is a destination but there is do no mention of the docking location that I can see

 

Concerned fellow cruisers are being wound up.

 

IMHO all need to look forward and enjoy.

 

 

I agree.

I also share your concerns and agree with your conclusions.

[daiB]

32 minutes ago, janny444 said:

Hi...that is why I have asked P&O 2 direct questions...how many shuttle buses are being provided and what shelter is going to be provided so that it is not my opinion but upon P&O answering my questions then it will become fact

Facts are always better.

[Harry Peterson]

9 minutes ago, daiB said:

Facts are always better.

Certainly. It’s such a shame that P&O are still refusing to provide them. And don’t think I haven’t asked.

[CarlaMarie]

I don't understand what the brochures have to do with this. All the P&O brochures state Amsterdam, and normally that would mean you are docked in Amsterdam itself. That is what everyone expected when they booked their cruise and that is what they booked. 

 

P&O do make it clear when you are docked in a different area in their brochures. Bruges for example is specifically listed as tours from Zeebrugge and Athens is tours from Piraeus. 

[Haza]

Why are so many people jumping on the band wagon:

 

This post was started for the people it affects and are not happy with the change in berth.

So if your happy with the changes made to the berth have a good cruise.

 

Also abstract from response from P&O

 Further to your recent telephone conversations with our Contact Centre, I am sorry for any disappointment caused due to Ventura's berth in Amsterdam being changed.

like i have said previously if the port would have been into IJmuiden i most defiantly would not of booked this cruise.

[mercury7289]

7 hours ago, docco said:

Although you are not involved in this in any way, you do of course have every right to join the discussion, even though it’s intended primarily for those affected by P&O’s decision to change what was originally advertised.

 

I’m happy to note what you say you found, or didn’t find, in such paper brochures as you may have, but please don’t try to tell those of us who are affected that we don’t know what we booked.

Docco

 

A How do you know I am not effected? 

B I do not need your permission

C What was advertised in there brochures is hard written fact!

Assumptions are personnel to each of us, sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong, if intended to be contractual they need to be agreed and signed as such in writing to form form part of a contract.

But of course you might, already have read this in the papers somewhere.

 

This day some 17689, may be on board P&O cruise ships, tomorrow the same, and every day after that the same.

 

Hopefully all enjoying a wonderful time