Mandatory Service Charges

[Omega1]

1 hour ago, hamrag said:

 

Through this whole thread, which has been interesting/amusing at times, it is clear that some go on a cruise with no intention of paying DSC....that is truly reprehensible, as someone posted a few days ago. The sooner MSC go down the NCL route in the UK, and include DSC in the fare, the better as far as I am concerned. The emerging 'status quo' decision will not be the end of the matter, and fairness will prevail in the end.  

 

I agree. P&O, Marella, Princess (Australia) and maybe some others, have declared they have removed gratuities, but in reality it probably means they will slowly increase prices to recoup the loss of income. I have no issue with that - it levels the playing field and is transparent. 

The only area I would disagree is, if someone chooses to remove the DSC - that’s their business, nothing to do with me and certainly not my place to judge.  I have enough trouble living my own life, without telling others how to live theirs!😂

Happy travels.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Omega1

[citizenfrank]

2 hours ago, hamrag said:

 

I disagree....The Business Model that MSC, and the vast majority of cruiselines operate, is similar and includes a Daily Service Charge which should be paid.....we all know that, and some of us comply and support the Business Model. You are not paying again!

 

This is similar to the well known Daily Resort Fee at many hotel complexes, so what is the difference? You certainly would not get away with refusing to pay a Resort Fee as they have your credit card details (or a cash deposit)

 

What happened to the oft repeated mantra throughout this thread that it was not about payment of DSC, but the 'outrageous' decision in moving the goalposts to make it mandatory? The mantra appears to have subtly changed to 'why should we pay again...'.

"Through this whole thread, which has been interesting/amusing at times, it is clear that some go on a cruise with no intention of paying DSC....that is truly reprehensible, as someone posted a few days ag o. The sooner MSC go down the NC L route in the UK, and include DSC in the fare, the better as far as I am concerned"

...The above from one of your later postings.

I totally agree 100% ...The single biggest reason is it will stop bigotted views like yours constantly hyjacking threads, banging on forcing your opinions on everyone irrespective of if they agree with you or not.

Bring it on ...The industry will go this way I'm sure.

 

Sir Richard's Virgin Voyagers will soon be on the high seas and he is certainly not getting caught in this bear pit of DSC!

He's a hero of mine and if you know a bit about him, read his story and books you'll know why.

But as with all his other business models, he will employ the right people and pay them the right rates ...Yes I'm sure the cruise fares will reflect this, but it will be a transparent purchase of the service.

 

You go on now and next about Daily Resort Fees and yes they are a pain too.

But they're not the same thing, not at all as Bea I think corrected you.

I visit Vegas 'a lot' ...my reservation this week was bizarre ...The resort fee at $35 dollars was actually greater than the advertised room rate! But this is Vegas, a mega resort and not something to ensure an employee washing pots gets the fair wage they should have already been employed on by the line.

 

This industry has to change and that could be good, because then the lines will always need to keep at least one eye on the competition and the market in general regarding their fares ....it will not be a charge what you like marketplace for sure.

 

For you ...99% of your postings will become obsolete overnight.

Even better the sneaky and snidey members who 'like' and 'love' posts like yours through the new buttons on these sites, but never actually write their own offerings (thank God) ...you know the kind that would sooner push the big red button than fight a war or negotiate it. 

This thread is dead and that makes me very happy.

Edited February 27, 2019 by citizenfrank
spelling

[citizenfrank]

3 hours ago, Beamafar said:

 

For some!  🙁

It will all work out Bea ...The law will prevail 

[sidari]

Hamrag ... Just so that things are clear in your mind because they appear to be somewhat cloudy.

Point me to a thread on cruise critic where I have made the comment that we, as in my other half and myself have ever removed the DSC? 

 

[hamrag]

3 minutes ago, sidari said:

Hamrag ... Just so that things are clear in your mind because they appear to be somewhat cloudy.

Point me to a thread on cruise critic where I have made the comment that we, as in my other half and myself have ever removed the DSC? 

 

 

Sid, having racked my failing brain to establish why you think I have accused you of such, I have now worked out (I believe) where this misunderstanding arises from!

 

At post 395, I wrote the following:

I disagree....The Business Model that MSC, and the vast majority of cruiselines operate, is similar and includes a Daily Service Charge which should be paid.....we all know that, and some of us comply and support the Business Model. You are not paying again!

 

That was in response to your post 394 where you said you should not have to pay again. When I wrote 'You are not paying again' that was in response to your comment and not in any way suggesting you had at any time removed DSC....it was to highlight my opinion that you do not pay for services in the cruise fare and therefore you are not paying for those services again.

 

If that is not why you think I had suggested you had removed DSC, then please enlighten me. I have not accused any individual, throughout this thread, of doing such. A few have admitted they do, no matter what the onboard service is like, and that I consider to be reprehensible.

[korpo024]

Wow, this was a fun thread! All the 'gutmenschen' that constantly point out that they always pay their DSC, and all the discussing and all the feelings getting hurt...I was really enjoying all the problems people do have....lol. My god this is a cruise forum! If people in Africa read these threads, they think we are all drowning in our money, and do have way too much spare time! 

If they read this, they will come with thousands to our shores....oh...right...that is happening allready...

well I guess MSC did read the EU law, and saw that it is illegal to make tips (or DSC) mandatory...so the more transparant way is that future bookings will get a slightly higher price...that's the normal thing to do...and legal...

And on my three cruises this year I will give tips, only when I get good service, like the most of us do...especially in Europe.

[Omega1]

27 minutes ago, korpo024 said:

Wow, this was a fun thread! All the 'gutmenschen' that constantly point out that they always pay their DSC, and all the discussing and all the feelings getting hurt...I was really enjoying all the problems people do have....lol. My god this is a cruise forum! If people in Africa read these threads, they think we are all drowning in our money, and do have way too much spare time! 

If they read this, they will come with thousands to our shores....oh...right...that is happening allready...

well I guess MSC did read the EU law, and saw that it is illegal to make tips (or DSC) mandatory...so the more transparant way is that future bookings will get a slightly higher price...that's the normal thing to do...and legal...

And on my three cruises this year I will give tips, only when I get good service, like the most of us do...especially in Europe.

Love it - lots of gutmenschen on here!

[8420PR]

17 minutes ago, korpo024 said:

And on my three cruises this year I will give tips, only when I get good service, like the most of us do...especially in Europe.

If you were in Miami before a cruise would you also remove the tip/service charge from a restaurant bill? When in Rome etc?  It's part of the staffs wages and I can't see why a cruise ship would be any different.

 

But I agree with most posters - for cultures where tipping is uncomfortable MSC should have just increased fares and included the DSC in the fare (following the lead of NCL and P&O). This would save both the DCS payers and non-payers a lot of hassle.  

 

 

 

[korpo024]

8 minutes ago, 8420PR said:

If you were in Miami before a cruise would you also remove the tip/service charge from a restaurant bill? When in Rome etc?  It's part of the staffs wages and I can't see why a cruise ship would be any different.

 

But I agree with most posters - for cultures where tipping is uncomfortable MSC should have just increased fares and included the DSC in the fare (following the lead of NCL and P&O). This would save both the DCS payers and non-payers a lot of hassle.  

 

 

 

In 2016 we were in Miami, and we did not remove the gratuity (we found it very strange to see all pricing on the menu, and get a whole different bill, but...it's US culture...). But in Rome, where I have been a lot, I only give tips when I get good service...and as anybody who have been to Rome knows, the service is not always good...Italian waiters (as France, Dutch, Spanish) are sometimes rude, and they walk around as they don't give a sh!t. So no, they will not get any tips...is very logical...

BUT in the US we never ever experienced bad service. People get out of their way to give you a good time! Although it's very artificial, it works really well....

[Beamafar]

I've just received the following in an email from MSC:

 

Each day, MSC Cruises will debit the Service Charge to your onboard account. The charge covers the onboard hospitality services actually enjoyed and is calculated according to the itinerary chosen and the number of nights.

However, should you wish to adjust or cancel any of the daily hotel service charges in the unlikely event that you did not receive  a satisfactory service, you may do so on board.

 

So, not just for the UK?  I've emailed back to get clarification about it.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Beamafar

[citizenfrank]

1 hour ago, Beamafar said:

I've just received the following in an email from MSC:

 

Each day, MSC Cruises will debit the Service Charge to your onboard account. The charge covers the onboard hospitality services actually enjoyed and is calculated according to the itinerary chosen and the number of nights.

However, should you wish to adjust or cancel any of the daily hotel service charges in the unlikely event that you did not receive  a satisfactory service, you may do so on board.

 

So, not just for the UK?  I've emailed back to get clarification about it.

Great news Bea

[korpo024]

4 hours ago, Beamafar said:

I've just received the following in an email from MSC:

 

Each day, MSC Cruises will debit the Service Charge to your onboard account. The charge covers the onboard hospitality services actually enjoyed and is calculated according to the itinerary chosen and the number of nights.

However, should you wish to adjust or cancel any of the daily hotel service charges in the unlikely event that you did not receive  a satisfactory service, you may do so on board.

 

So, not just for the UK?  I've emailed back to get clarification about it.

As I have said before...it is the logical thing to do...and legal...

[PopTop66US]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 8:29 AM, Capitan Obvious said:

 

While that always "sounds" like a good idea, you really have to wonder if it is.

 

Example 1: Your cruise costs $800 plus $200 in gratuities for a total of $1,000

Example 2: Your cruise costs $1,000 total, gratuities are included

Example 3: Your cruise costs $1,000 total, and there are no gratuities anymore

 

Honestly....what is the difference?

 

P and O are removing gratuities in May and moving to Example 3. Don't think that somehow means that these costs won't still be paid.

The only difference is when there is an offer for a FREE CRUISE from somewhere ( charity raffle, travel agency, etc... ) in #1 if you are the winner of the free cruise you still need to pay the gratuities, taxes, fees, and there usually won't be any perks added in so you would need to pay for the booze plan, dining plan, et...

It can cost more for the free than for a good deal with your regular travel agent.

 

[EngIceDave]

Just FYI - I happened to call MSC (USA) yesterday with a couple questions on our Armonia trip in about 2 weeks.

I was told that I may pay gratuities (tips) in cash if I wish, just go to guest services and let them know, and also that our guest cash advance/credit (which I really don't understand, but won't fight) may also be applied.

So, can leave on CC if I want

Can leave cash if I want

Can use advance if I want

[Omega1]

As quoted on travelweekly.co.uk - The UK boss of MSC Cruises is “seriously considering” including service charges in the cruise fare to meet the demands of British passengers.

Speaking on board MSC Bellissima’s shakedown sailing to Southampton, UK & Ireland managing director Antonio Paradiso pledged to always make decisions based on the needs of customers in the UK market, which he oversees.

Including service charges in the fare was in line with what the rest of the industry was doing, added Paradiso, who said a decision would be made within the next few weeks.

“I am seriously considering [including service charges], it is one of the options and I am working on it,” he said. “At the end of the day, we always put the customers at the heart of what we do.”

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, Omega1 said:

“I am seriously considering [including service charges], it is one of the options and I am working on it,” he said. “At the end of the day, we always put the customers at the heart of what we do.”

 

Based on past experience, MSC will raise the fare by more than what the current DSC is...but if that's what people want, so be it.

[citizenfrank]

6 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Based on past experience, MSC will raise the fare by more than what the current DSC is...but if that's what people want, so be it.

Exactly the the same as NCL ...funny that! 😲

[Omega1]

1 hour ago, citizenfrank said:

Exactly the the same as NCL ...funny that! 😲

It struck me as odd that Antonio Paradiso who, ‘always puts the customers at the heart of what we do’, is the presumably the same person who made the decision to make the DSC mandatory.🤔

[citizenfrank]

10 minutes ago, Omega1 said:

It struck me as odd that Antonio Paradiso who, ‘always puts the customers at the heart of what we do’, is the presumably the same person who made the decision to make the DSC mandatory.🤔

Absolutely right! 

He is the man who "tries to get things through the back door, feels the force of rejection, does an about turn and then saves the day ...always putting the customer at the heart of everything"!

A kind of schizophrenic superhero 😆

[sidari]

The letter he mentions is a nonsense, he and MSC tried to con customers by adding the Mandatory information to a page within the cruise pages which only shows up when you start a booking for a cruise as per the one posted in this thread.

They do not have the Backbone to just come out and say we made a mistake and we are changing back to the previous policy on DSC.

I also doubt that Antonio Paradiso has the clout to make these changes especially when the UK office have to refer customer emails to head office in order to move a deposit to a different cabin on the same cruise.

[Beamafar]

22 minutes ago, sidari said:

The letter he mentions is a nonsense, he and MSC tried to con customers by adding the Mandatory information to a page within the cruise pages which only shows up when you start a booking for a cruise as per the one posted in this thread.

 

 

It's not even that transparent on the Ireland website.  You would have to look up the policy on the 'General Information' link under the 'My Booking' tab.  How often will we need to do this in order to ensure that there haven't been any more sneaky changes?

 

As I've said before, anyone with an active booking at the time of the change should have been notified that, what had been a discretionary charge, had since become a mandatory one.  

 

I wonder if the volte-face was as a result of a threat of a legal challenge.  🤔  That's usually the basis for a change of heart around a policy implementation.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Beamafar

[hamrag]

17 hours ago, Omega1 said:

As quoted on travelweekly.co.uk - The UK boss of MSC Cruises is “seriously considering” including service charges in the cruise fare to meet the demands of British passengers.

Speaking on board MSC Bellissima’s shakedown sailing to Southampton, UK & Ireland managing director Antonio Paradiso pledged to always make decisions based on the needs of customers in the UK market, which he oversees.

Including service charges in the fare was in line with what the rest of the industry was doing, added Paradiso, who said a decision would be made within the next few weeks.

“I am seriously considering [including service charges], it is one of the options and I am working on it,” he said. “At the end of the day, we always put the customers at the heart of what we do.”

 

Excellent, that must have been the good news subject of the 'awaiting breaking news' thread from a few days ago. You may recall the OP teased many, but didn't in the end divulge what the subject matter was....although some speculated the good news was the reversal of the mandatory DSC debacle! 

[Omega1]

13 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

Excellent, that must have been the good news subject of the 'awaiting breaking news' thread from a few days ago. You may recall the OP teased many, but didn't in the end divulge what the subject matter was....although some speculated the good news was the reversal of the mandatory DSC debacle! 

It certainly was a debacle! I think the 'tease' originated on Facebook, but was indeed the reversal of the mandatory DSC. The recent comment by the top UK man takes it a step further and do away with a service charge altogether and incorporate it into the headline fare. I am happy with that - fair for everyone (level playing field) and transparent. JMO as usual.

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by Omega1

[sidari]

55 minutes ago, Omega1 said:

It certainly was a debacle! I think the 'tease' originated on Facebook, but was indeed the reversal of the mandatory DSC. The recent comment by the top UK man takes it a step further and do away with a service charge altogether and incorporate it into the headline fare. I am happy with that - fair for everyone (level playing field) and transparent. JMO as usual.

 

Omega ... while I agree with you in general, if it is just the UK that has the DSC included in the total fare that still means that the other countries around the globe should they wish would be able to remove it. Would it then be seen as UK customers subsiding others sailing on the same cruise!

Just seen this on FB, no idea how true but looks legitimate.

[sidari]

An interesting post appeared earlier today on a FB page that I am a member of regarding the DSC.

 

Just seems to me that they are trying to save face - stating that he was "forced" to clarify the service charge policy in the UK & Ireland after a letter was published online "purportedly from the line" stating the service charge would be mandatory from 1st March. "It is understood that the letter was distributed by MSC Cruises in a European market outside of the UK". 

"Paradiso said I want to be clear there has just been some confusion from other markets ... nothing has changed in the UK"

Maybe nothing has changed now the decision has been overturned but am I mistaken in remembering it was on the msc uk site that Dave Darby 1st pointed out the different wording?
Am I also mistaken that loads of uk people contacted either msc uk or their travel agents who then contacted msc uk and got the initial answer that yes it was mandatory on all sailings from that date?

Am I also mistaken that the announcement was made on here that senior management were in talks and an important announcement would be forthcoming - and that resultant announcement along with the reverting of the wording on the msc UK website was to go back to how it was after so many complaints (& probably the realisation they were operating outside the law when people were seeking advice from ABTA etc.)

All this has done is made me even more disappointed with how underhand this company is - why not just admit they made a mistake, they listened to their customers and they rectified it. Instead they are making out a letter meant only for the eurpean market got into the wrong hands (of a member of the public) and was published online in the uk which alone led people to mistakenly believe they were making the service charge mandatory for uk customers but really this was never the case. What rubbish.

Im sorry but if MSC thinks there UK customers are so stupid then if I am ever to be lucky enough to be in a position to go on a cruise again after April I sincerely doubt it will be with MSC.