Mandatory Service Charges

[Omega1]

11 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I live in the US and have NEVER been quoted a price that did not include port fees and applicable taxes.  Maybe your 'understanding' is not as comprehensive or accurate as you assume.

 

Thank you for clarifying. My comment was based on years of looking at US cruise agent websites where the advertised base price is plus taxes and fees. 

It might be the case that your quotes are inclusive, but presumably, based on US cruise sites, advertising a cruise fare as, say, $1000 (plus taxes and fees) is legal. That is different to how it is in the UK, an advertised price must be all inclusive.

By the way - no need to patronise.

[Toofarfromthesea]

10 minutes ago, bobhosk said:

Out of interest, as I'm not from the US, so thought I'd investigate for myself.

 

Just went and looked on all the big cruise lines websites and they all exclude taxes and fees.

 

They have a slight problem in that sales tax (which I'm assuming is one of the taxes) differs from state to state.

I don't know what you are looking at but I just did a mock booking on the MSC site for the first cruise that came up in their splash page and once I picked a cabin and experience this is an exact cut and paste of what came up:

Total stateroom price: $ 2,722.00 Includes $ 84.00 government fees & taxes)

[sidari]

6 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Huh?  Did you even read what I wrote?  In the US the port fees and applicable taxes are ALWAYS included in the price advertised or quoted.  I was quoted 4715 pp when I booked my upcoming Meraviglia cruise.  When I got my invoice it showed a cruise fare of 4,519, and porters and taxes of 196 - which total the quoted 4,715 amount.

Did you read what I wrote ? That at least you are made aware of what they are, there are going to be thousands of people sailing MSC in the coming year who will have no idea of the Mandatory charge!

[Toofarfromthesea]

1 minute ago, Omega1 said:

Thank you for clarifying. My comment was based on years of looking at US cruise agent websites where the advertised base price is plus taxes and fees. 

It might be the case that your quotes are inclusive, but presumably, based on US cruise sites, advertising a cruise fare as, say, $1000 (plus taxes and fees) is legal. That is different to how it is in the UK, an advertised price must be all inclusive.

By the way - no need to patronise.

Well, you still don't get it.  They don't quote '$1000 (plus taxes and fees) ' as I just demonstrated from the MSC site.  And I've NEVER had a cruise quoted  from a travel agent as xxxx (plus taxes and fees).  It doesn't really matter if it is legal or not because it isn't done.

Since you seem to think it is patronizing to point out that you're wrong, please patronise me by showing me a site that is quoting (plus port fees and taxes) fares.

[Toofarfromthesea]

4 minutes ago, sidari said:

Did you read what I wrote ? That at least you are made aware of what they are, there are going to be thousands of people sailing MSC in the coming year who will have no idea of the Mandatory charge!

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with my point, which is that you are wrong about how cruise fares are called in the US, and NOTHING to do with service charges, mandatory or otherwise.

[sidari]

MSC USA website, cruise price 15.12.19,  $468 Average price pp, Government fee and Taxes are an additional $153.36 so not included in the base fare !

[Omega1]

9 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Well, you still don't get it.  They don't quote '$1000 (plus taxes and fees) ' as I just demonstrated from the MSC site.  And I've NEVER had a cruise quoted  from a travel agent as xxxx (plus taxes and fees).  It doesn't really matter if it is legal or not because it isn't done.

Since you seem to think it is patronizing to point out that you're wrong, please patronise me by showing me a site that is quoting (plus port fees and taxes) fares.

As requested, I provided an example (screenshot) of a site where the base fare was quoted with no reference to taxes and fees. Unfortunately, giving this example probably contravened CC rules and was removed. In the example I gave, only on the third page of the transaction  were taxes and fees added.

I don’t doubt what you say regarding the quotes you have had, but US online agents categorically do quote a headline figure and then add taxes and fees. This is the point I made in  post 263, but sadly you felt it necessary to make personal comments and deflect the discussion  down a route unrelated to the focus of this thread.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Omega1

[sidari]

Omega1 ... As your post was making a point rather advertising it should have been left on the thread, luckily I did see it last night. By removing the post it then stifles the debate.

Edited February 25, 2019 by sidari

[Beamafar]

Perhaps if the prices had been blacked out, it could have been left in place.

[sidari]

53 minutes ago, Beamafar said:

Perhaps if the prices had been blacked out, it could have been left in place.

Or the name of the travel agent.

[cruiser man 60]

Has anyone had any response from a U.K. Travel agent they booked through to obtain their take on this change without notice?

[hamrag]

14 hours ago, sidari said:

MSC USA website, cruise price 15.12.19,  $468 Average price pp, Government fee and Taxes are an additional $153.36 so not included in the base fare !

 

Sid, I am replying on the back of this post to highlight something you posted to me (now removed, it seems) as follows:

To Hamrag

You like everyone else are entitled to your opinion, people are in the same way entitled to decide how they wish to spend their money.

The thread is about how MSC have once again sought to decieve people and treat customers with contempt in adding their now Mandatory charges.

 

So, I wish to make two points as follows:

1) You, above all others, ought to know that the thread is about Mandatory Service Charges....you started the thread, and created the heading! Just because you don't like what I and others write in relation to it will not prevent us from posting on the thread subject.

2) If the thread is about the MSC customer contempt re mandatory charges, then why are you going 'off topic' in your own thread?

 

You too are entitled to your opinion, but recent posts show you are not practising what you preach on this thread.

 

[citizenfrank]

Morning

An unspectacular update, but an offering into this sea of confusion, bitterness and passion none the less.

I've just spoken to MSC, initially regarding the Trio dining package that seems to be avoiding me.

However as Michael seemed highly proficient and spoke in a voice similar to a leading Soho hotel concierge, I thought I would enquire if he knew anything about the Devious Service Charge and it's change in policy from 31/03/2019.

 

He sighed like a man tired of being left in the proverbial mess by his employers before advising with great authority that they were told late on Friday to advise passengers that from 31/03/2019 the DSC would be added to all applicable accounts and could not be removed.

I enquired what about bookings made historically and with T&C's outside of any new contracts.

"Sir it applies to all sailings irrespective of booking date"

That cannot be right and is in violation of UK/EU law I suggested.

"That I wouldn't know" was the reply followed by "We have been told that this is the process and any queries regarding the policy should be addressed whilst on board to guest services"

I said this will cause mayhem aboard and his reply was....

"No doubt but this is the advise we are instructed to provide to callers"

My next observation was to suggest that this merely made the contact centres staff lives easier and passes the disruption to the ships with limited resources and thus disruption to other passengers.

"Possibly yes" was the reply.

 

I then likened this to the recent drinks package debacle, where I suggested that an amnesty was created under the values of fair play and  common sense, so would this be the likely outcome....

"I have no idea or opinion above the statement I have been asked to provide" said Michael.

I thanked him for his time, kicked the cat, threw my coffee cup agressively and typed this.

 

We wait for further developments as one

....plus all the haters who will no doubt be standing to attention now and saluting Michael with the buttons on their 'gratuities police' uniforms all gleaming 👮

Edited February 25, 2019 by citizenfrank
spelling

[Beamafar]

I will be really interested to hear what response MSC Germany will give to the German TA who we've booked our Aug cruise with and who I've requested to contact MSC about the issue as the German website is still advising that the charge can be removed.

 

ETA ... I didn't receive a copy of the T&Cs from MSC for our direct booking, but I have one from last September's cruise which would be the same T&Cs that were in place when I made next Oct's booking.  I've just seen the following and am wondering if this change falls within the scope:

 

 14.2 In the event of a significant alteration to an essential term of the Contract, the Company will inform the Passenger or his/her Sales Agent of such change in writing as soon as reasonably possible. If there is time to do so before departure, we will offer you the choice of one of the following

a) Accepting the alteration; or

b) Booking another Holiday Package from the Company’s brochure and/or from the Official Website of equivalent or superior quality, if available; or

c) Booking another Holiday Package from the Company’s brochure and/or from the Official Website of lower quality, if available, with a refund of the difference in price; or

d) Cancelling and receiving a full refund of all monies paid.

 

There is no mention of the daily service charge in the T&Cs.  The following advises that you check the website:

 

 

Since the Booking Terms & Conditions applicable to the single Cruise or Holiday Package are those in force at the time of completing the Booking, irrespective of those published in the relevant Company’s brochure, it is recommended to check with the Sales Agent or by visiting the Company’s Official website for the most up to date Booking Terms & Conditions.

 

Well, my "Sales Agent" has sent me a translated copy of the T&Cs that state that if I wish, I can cancel or adjust the amount as I please!

Edited February 25, 2019 by Beamafar

[Captain-John]

20 hours ago, nealjr said:

I just checked the U.S. website and it still states you have the option of disputing if you wish.

 

I would not be surprised at all if this option remained available to US bookers. NCL do something similar I believe - book through the UK and it's included in the upfront rate, in the US it isn't.

 

Regarding the post about the C4 documentary - the cruise line is surely responsible for paying the full contracted wage to the employee, instead of only setting aside money for some of it, and them using the DSC collected for the rest. It's this allocation of funds separate from the upfront fare that is really not transparent. I'm not disagreeing that (for easy counting) fare £1000 + £100 DSC comes to £1100. Why not charge £1100 upfront if that's the figure cruise lines are basing how they pay their staff? It's crazy.

[Beamafar]

Not crazy, Cap'n ... tax-dodging!

[Captain-John]

Just now, Beamafar said:

Not crazy, Cap'n ... tax-dodging!

 

Funny how people are quick to vilify Amazon, Google etc. but defend to the death this practice in the cruise industry!

[glittergal1]

1 hour ago, Beamafar said:

 

 

Where in any ones  terms and conditions is there any mention of the Daily Service charge?   Ive read though we we have and cant actually find any mention of the Daily service charge 

[thetaro]

Most cruise lines already evade taxes by incorporating overseas and flying the flags of foreign countries. A lot of these companies do in-company transfer to dodge income tax, that's what Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, and Google have been doing. As far as I know, MSC is incorporated in Swiss and pay most of the tax there though they have a huge base in Genoa.

 

They also don't pay much tax in the US. The US Senate refuses to do anything about it because the industry brings money to Alaska and Florida. 

 

However, that doesn't give you a reason to dodge DSC. You guys sure have no problem to dodge sales tax with all those alcohol drinks that you consumed and duty-free products that you purchased. 

 

People are not defending the industry. People are saying that the action of some customers does to dodge DSC are reprehensible. 

Villifying the industry doesn't give you a reason to make other customers sponsoring your rate. Not to mention some false claims about bad service that actually hurt the employees. Most of you guys sure don't hate it enough to boycott the whole industry. The hypocrisy is loud and clear. So stop this nonsense about defending cruise line industries. We are both defending them by giving them the business.

[KlausM999]

Just received from MSC Germany: 

 

„vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht.

Gerne teilen wir Ihnen mit, dass gemäß den uns vorliegenden Informationen die Trinkgelder bei Ihrer Ankunft an Bord gestrichen oder angepasst werden können.

Wir möchten Sie informieren, dass das Trinkgeld auf den MSC Schiffen keine Pflicht ist. Das Trinkgeld wird in der empfohlenen Höhe, unterschiedlich je nach Route, automatisch auf die Bordrechnung gesetzt und abgebucht, sofern dies nicht im Vorhinein beansprucht wird. Dieser Vermerk kann erst an Bord gesetzt werden und wir empfehlen, dies gleich am Anfang der Reise bei der Rezeption an Bord zu erledigen. Sie können dort nicht nur das Trinkgeld stornieren lassen, sondern es auch verringern. Wenn Sie das Trinkgeld stornieren haben lassen, steht es Ihnen natürlich auch frei direkt an bestimmte Personen noch etwas zu geben.

Bitte hängen Sie bei Rückfragen den kompletten E-Mail Verlauf an, damit wir Ihr Anliegen leichter nachvollziehen können

Für weitere Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards“

 

[PTC DAWG]

21 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Reported.

Well, did you know?  Touchy bunch here.  

Edited February 25, 2019 by PTC DAWG

[PTC DAWG]

20 hours ago, thetaro said:

This happens on every board and is getting old. There are people who do not want to pay for gratuities or they want to pay it on their "own terms." cause you know? cultural, legal reasons, money doesn't go to crews. Then they throw in a bunch of nonsense about employers should pay them livable rate like they are not part of the reasons these overseas employees are exploited. You can always put money where your mouth is and boycott these cruise companies. Cancel your cruise if you hate it so much. 

 

You want other customers to subsidize your rate, fine, but don't act like you have full intention to pay for it and blame others for turning it into a debate. It's a waste of time. Most can't even make up their mind to admit that they don't want to pay for it. 

 

There is an obvious reason they make it "MANDATORY." I am happy that they make it mandatory, so people can't make up nonsense that potentially gets these pour souls fired.

 

Like it or not, it's called Daily Service Charge, not TIPS.  You pay for the service you received.

If you think the service is bad, ask for a partial refund and never sail MSC. 

Well said...seems more than obvious to me.  

[PTC DAWG]

19 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Please don't take this thread off topic, this thread has nothing to do with paying or not paying the DSC, this thread is about MSC changing the policy after booking and nothing more. 

Companies change policies all the time.  It's called rolling with the punches...

[PTC DAWG]

19 hours ago, hamrag said:

 

Please do not tar ALL Europeans with the same brush, my opinions have been stated and are crystal clear!!

Point taken, I should used "some Europeans".  

 

All that said, I'm out on this topic, enjoy your next cruise..I intend to enjoy mine on MSC in April...

Edited February 25, 2019 by PTC DAWG

[sidari]

31 minutes ago, KlausM999 said:

Just received from MSC Germany: 

 

„vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht.

Gerne teilen wir Ihnen mit, dass gemäß den uns vorliegenden Informationen die Trinkgelder bei Ihrer Ankunft an Bord gestrichen oder angepasst werden können.

Wir möchten Sie informieren, dass das Trinkgeld auf den MSC Schiffen keine Pflicht ist. Das Trinkgeld wird in der empfohlenen Höhe, unterschiedlich je nach Route, automatisch auf die Bordrechnung gesetzt und abgebucht, sofern dies nicht im Vorhinein beansprucht wird. Dieser Vermerk kann erst an Bord gesetzt werden und wir empfehlen, dies gleich am Anfang der Reise bei der Rezeption an Bord zu erledigen. Sie können dort nicht nur das Trinkgeld stornieren lassen, sondern es auch verringern. Wenn Sie das Trinkgeld stornieren haben lassen, steht es Ihnen natürlich auch frei direkt an bestimmte Personen noch etwas zu geben.

Bitte hängen Sie bei Rückfragen den kompletten E-Mail Verlauf an, damit wir Ihr Anliegen leichter nachvollziehen können

Für weitere Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards“

 

looks like they are still in the dark then.