Injured while on an Excursion

[xpcdoojk]

Wow, tipping and helping...  seems like lots of issues here.  

 

We were on the Symphony of the Seas TA in October / November.  My wife’s mother who is a fairly healthy and active 92 year old lives in a senior apartment. While we were on the cruise, my MIL was walking along the street outside her apartment.  According to her a car honked and yelled which caused her to swing around resulting in her breaking her pelvis.   She was taken to the emergency room which released her with a broken pelvis to return to senior apartment.  Where she promptly went to bed and couldn’t get up to go to the bathroom so the bed replaced it.  We were contacted the next day, and made arrangements for home healthcare providers.  

 

Who should we sue?

 

the car that honked?

 

The emergency room that released her when she had a serious injury?  

 

Old people fall.  Heck, I fell a few weeks ago on the ice on my porch.... I so want to sue somebody.  Please help me.

 

jc

[kalliekae]

8 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

It was not.  My mother was walking up an uneven, slippery slope at the end of the excursion when an operator distracted her when he popped in front of her requesting/reminding her to tip.  Distracted and startled she lost her footing and fell.  It was all a strange series of events but if he'd helped her up the slope instead, it might be a different situation.  (btw: we have no issue about tips.  We are actually over tippers most likely in everything we do - so it wasn't about the request, it was that the request was done at an inappropriate time and way and had consequences.)

 

I'm not an attorney, but honestly, I can't see this as a case that an attorney could win. It's your word against the tour operators' word. Also, as someone else said, those tour operators do not make a lot of money so even if you win, they probably could not pay you. It was an unfortunate accident.

[Aodhan]

11 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

I am sorry to hear she got injured. If you are really seeking advice, you may want to give more details. Whenever I see claims with vague details, it usually throws up a red flag that someone is trying to find a payout. There are many things to consider. What liability does the tour operator hold? Good luck trying to bring a suit to one in Jamaica. Any larger one that could even afford to pay if order to is very likely going to have disclaimers waiving them of any liability.

I didn't think a public forum was the place to give all the details, in detail, so I tried to be as specific without being sensational.    If, in the end, cruise lines and operators, can't actually be held liable or, the burden of proof is too high, then I have done my due diligence and made sure that we've not at least looked. 

 

I'm not seeking advice on what to do- I'm seeking information or leads - to posts or information about what people *have* done, or *have* experienced in this area, so I can get an understanding of what has happened to others and what can or can not be done beyond what we have been doing.   Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[Aodhan]

Just now, xpcdoojk said:

Wow, tipping and helping...  seems like lots of issues here.  

 

We were on the Symphony of the Seas TA in October / November.  My wife’s mother who is a fairly healthy and active 92 year old lives in a senior apartment. While we were on the cruise, my MIL was walking along the street outside her apartment.  According to her a car honked and yelled which caused her to swing around resulting in her breaking her pelvis.   She was taken to the emergency room which released her with a broken pelvis to return to senior apartment.  Where she promptly went to bed and couldn’t get up to go to the bathroom so the bed replaced it.  We were contacted the next day, and made arrangements for home healthcare providers.  

 

Who should we sue?

 

the car that honked?

 

The emergency room that released her when she had a serious injury?  

 

Old people fall.  Heck, I fell a few weeks ago on the ice on my porch.... I so want to sue somebody.  Please help me.

 

jc

 

 

You're actually quite hostile.  I don't need any more input from you, but feel free to vent your spleen as you need if it helps you.

[Aodhan]

11 minutes ago, BND said:

The link is to a known ambulance chaser and cruise hating lawyer.  That's what the poster meant.  You'll find lots of negative opinions of  cruise law news on CC.

 

 

Thank you, that's helpful also.   However, that particular poster, while seemingly helpful, in further posts seems like a jerk.  Forgive me if I'm new and they are one of your venerated members.   If they are and this is how they treat folks like me....well, I guess I made a mistake coming here and asking for help.  

[Merion_Mom]

36 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

 

I understand your perspective.  I'm in health care and have been caregiver to numerous people injured in accidents and some involved in suits.  Please be assured, I'm not looking for legal advice: I'm looking for guidance to learn more about situations like this, what others have done, and where I can learn more beyond just the Google.  It seems that this community might have more first hand knowledge on these situations than just the sensational stuff I find with search engines. 🙂

 

Then stay away from that horrible man on the website that was offered and you "thanked" for.  

[Aodhan]

4 minutes ago, kalliekae said:

 

I'm not an attorney, but honestly, I can't see this as a case that an attorney could win. It's your word against the tour operators' word. Also, as someone else said, those tour operators do not make a lot of money so even if you win, they probably could not pay you. It was an unfortunate accident.

 

We are willing to accept that if that is what the situation is.  We've never had this issue before and are facing a real changed future.  If it's one of those things, it is - but that's how I go about finding out: by asking a community of people who have some experience.  And maybe some experience with people having been injured.   Thanks for your reply.

 

[Aodhan]

1 minute ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

Then stay away from that horrible man on the website that was offered and you "thanked" for.  

 

 

I'm thanking most people for their input.  I see that there are quite a few people who feel negatively about that site. 

 

So question: was the original post satire or did the original poster truly feel that was a site I should visit?

 

[xpcdoojk]

8 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

 

 

You're actually quite hostile.  I don't need any more input from you, but feel free to vent your spleen as you need if it helps you.

 

Hostile I am not.  Realistic I am....

 

You just don’t want anyone to tell you something you don’t want to hear.

 

Don’t care much about my spleen except I am glad it is healthy.

 

jc

[reallyitsmema]

2 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

 

We are willing to accept that if that is what the situation is.  We've never had this issue before and are facing a real changed future.  If it's one of those things, it is - but that's how I go about finding out: by asking a community of people who have some experience.  And maybe some experience with people having been injured.   Thanks for your reply.

 

 

I doubt you are going to find many threads from people with similar experiences and if you do, there are likely to be very few details of settlements as people likely have to sign non-disclosure agreements.

[BND]

10 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

 

 

Thank you, that's helpful also.   However, that particular poster, while seemingly helpful, in further posts seems like a jerk.  Forgive me if I'm new and they are one of your venerated members.   If they are and this is how they treat folks like me....well, I guess I made a mistake coming here and asking for help.  

The poster who posted the link to the cruise law news is unknown to me and could be connected in some way to it.  You say you're not looking for legal advice, yet it seems you are.  Sometimes accidents happen and are no one's fault.  Lawsuits are not always the way to go.  The average settlement from suits is a lot less than people think.  It's only the really high profile cases that have large awards and they are few and far between.  For example, my MIL fell in a hospital parking garage because the step down wasn't "marked" and she didn't see it (vision issues). She fell and ended up hospitalized.  Her settlement, using a lawyer, was 60K.  Hardly enough to change anyone's life.  

Edited March 8, 2019 by BND

[Aodhan]

1 minute ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

Hostile I am not.  Realistic I am....

 

You just don’t want anyone to tell you something you don’t want to hear.

 

Don’t care much about my spleen except I am glad it is healthy.

 

jc

"Who should we sue?

 

the car that honked?

 

The emergency room that released her when she had a serious injury?  

 

Old people fall.  Heck, I fell a few weeks ago on the ice on my porch.... I so want to sue somebody.  Please help me."

 

That is the language of a jerk.  Not someone being realistic.  You think you're being realistic, except using realistic rationale but confrontational language is hostile, not "realistic".  

 

This isn't about what I want to hear or not - look through this whole thread. I'm hearing a lot of opinions similar to yours.

It just that you think that smart mouthed upfront "blunt" talk is actually helpful.   Good luck on your next fall - I'm rooting for you.

 

 

[Mikew0805]

I'm sorry this happened to your family. I wish you well in finding help with this situation.

 

[Aodhan]

5 minutes ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

I doubt you are going to find many threads from people with similar experiences and if you do, there are likely to be very few details of settlements as people likely have to sign non-disclosure agreements.

 

Yes.

Thanks.    I appreciate the quick lesson I got here.   Most people were very helpful.  I had thought that actually the forum was more inclusive of the wider cruise experience, including the negative and that there would be some folks who had been through similar experiences and could share the positives or negatives.

 

I hadn't quite realized that it's largely a fan based site only.   It's been helpful all the same.

 

But with that said. I think I'm going to take my leave.   For everyone that had thoughts to offer, thank you. 

 

For xpcdoojk  thanks all the same, and I hope you have the opportunity to consider suing someone soon also.

[BND]

2 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

 

Yes.

Thanks.    I appreciate the quick lesson I got here.   Most people were very helpful.  I had thought that actually the forum was more inclusive of the wider cruise experience, including the negative and that there would be some folks who had been through similar experiences and could share the positives or negatives.

 

I hadn't quite realized that it's largely a fan based site only.   It's been helpful all the same.

 

But with that said. I think I'm going to take my leave.   For everyone that had thoughts to offer, thank you. 

 

For xpcdoojk  thanks all the same, and I hope you have the opportunity to consider suing someone soon also.

Well, that's passive aggressive.

[Aodhan]

2 minutes ago, BND said:

Well, that's passive aggressive.

 

Not really.  What makes it either passive, or aggressive? Because I announced it rather than just silently left?  The guidelines say that if you're going to post, engage.  I came for some opinions and I got some.  They were all very good.  Most were very caring.  One person was a jerk.   Not a bad mix. 

 

If you look back through most of the posts they were fairly realistic, but none seemed informed with any knowledge with any real circumstances other than personal feelings.  Ultimately I was informed that I likely wasn't going to find what I was looking for, which was opinions from all sides of the cruise experience, including being people being injured.  

 

This thread isn't deleted, if that poster is wrong and there are people who actually have experienced injury and needed to deal with situations like I have and have something to say, I'm sure I'll be notified and I will check. 

 

Otherwise, I just don't need even a few posts like xpcdoojk's to deal with and those right there are enough for me to say "thank you" and depart.   Nothing about my not wanting to deal with posts like theirs, and leaving, means I'm passive aggressive - it just means I made a mistake about what I was doing and asking. 

 

 

[Merion_Mom]

33 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

 

Not really.  What makes it either passive, or aggressive? Because I announced it rather than just silently left?  The guidelines say that if you're going to post, engage.  I came for some opinions and I got some.  They were all very good.  Most were very caring.  One person was a jerk.   Not a bad mix. 

 

If you look back through most of the posts they were fairly realistic, but none seemed informed with any knowledge with any real circumstances other than personal feelings.  Ultimately I was informed that I likely wasn't going to find what I was looking for, which was opinions from all sides of the cruise experience, including being people being injured.  

 

This thread isn't deleted, if that poster is wrong and there are people who actually have experienced injury and needed to deal with situations like I have and have something to say, I'm sure I'll be notified and I will check. 

 

Otherwise, I just don't need even a few posts like xpcdoojk's to deal with and those right there are enough for me to say "thank you" and depart.   Nothing about my not wanting to deal with posts like theirs, and leaving, means I'm passive aggressive - it just means I made a mistake about what I was doing and asking. 

 

 

 

You were hoping to find others who had similar experiences, and so far, no one has posted to say that they have.  

 

Perhaps tomorrow someone will see this thread and respond from personal experience, but so far it looks like there are not many who were injured and wanted to pursue it beyond their insurance claim.

 

I wish the best of luck and recovered health to your parents.

[harlekuin]

33 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

  Ultimately I was informed that I likely wasn't going to find what I was looking for, which was opinions from all sides of the cruise experience, including being people being injured.  

 

I don't believe that is what you were looking for.  You wanted someone to tell you how to get a bunch of money and no opinions as you state.  At least be honest about that instead of playing a martyr. 

 

I thought xpcdoojk asked legit questions.  You don't like the "perceived" tone.  These are just words.  Read them again and take out the attitude and there is a lot of good info and logic in the responses.

[Bloodgem]

2 hours ago, Aodhan said:

If you look back through most of the posts they were fairly realistic, but none seemed informed with any knowledge with any real circumstances other than personal feelings.  Ultimately I was informed that I likely wasn't going to find what I was looking for, which was opinions from all sides of the cruise experience, including being people being injured.  

 

This thread isn't deleted, if that poster is wrong and there are people who actually have experienced injury and needed to deal with situations like I have and have something to say, I'm sure I'll be notified and I will check. 

 

Hi, I'm sorry about what happened to your mum but please give this thread time. 

[momofmab]

Not sure if you're still hanging around, but it will be difficult to prove that the operator intended to "distract" your mom when he solicited her for a tip (causing her to fall).  It would even be a very long reach to say he was negligent in talking to his customers when they were trying to climb a steep, slippery slope.  It would be crazy to require tour operators not to speak when their customers were navigating challenging terrain (how could they possibly know who can and cannot navigate a given terrain?)  Your mom's age, health and general physical fitness would also come into play and there would be much debate on whether she should have taken the excursion in the first place.

 

This was an unfortunate accident.  Excursions are taken at your own risk.  Unless the tour operator pushed her (or if there was some kind of equipment involved that was not serviced correctly), there's not a case here.

[nat9511]

I am your mother's age.  I fell last year and fractured my arm near the shoulder.  My doctor also said I would never regain full motion in that arm.  He was right.  After several weeks of PT I can use my arm for almost anything except lifting it straight up to shave under my arm.  I just completed a move from one state to another.  I packed and lifted the boxes with no help from anyone.  Does my arm still hurt, yes but taking Alleve helps with the pain.  I don't think you mother will be completely handicapped because of the injury.  I hope she feels better soon.

[pcur]

10 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

Wow, tipping and helping...  seems like lots of issues here.  

 

We were on the Symphony of the Seas TA in October / November.  My wife’s mother who is a fairly healthy and active 92 year old lives in a senior apartment. While we were on the cruise, my MIL was walking along the street outside her apartment.  According to her a car honked and yelled which caused her to swing around resulting in her breaking her pelvis.   She was taken to the emergency room which released her with a broken pelvis to return to senior apartment.  Where she promptly went to bed and couldn’t get up to go to the bathroom so the bed replaced it.  We were contacted the next day, and made arrangements for home healthcare providers.  

 

Who should we sue?

 

the car that honked?

 

The emergency room that released her when she had a serious injury?  

 

Old people fall.  Heck, I fell a few weeks ago on the ice on my porch.... I so want to sue somebody.  Please help me.

 

jc

 

I wouldn't sue, jc, but I sure would go have a serious chat with the hospital administration about their release procedures with elderly patients in the ER.  They should have a protocol that requires them to ask if she has assistance at home.  If not, they would have transferred her to a rehab facility until she was ambulatory enough to get out of bed.  Releasing a 92 year-old to go home without assistance is just plain wrong.

 

We always tell my 95 yo MIL, "if you have to go to the ER, go in lying down", which means call an ambulance.  It's worth her $200 copay if they don't admit her.  We tell her if she goes in that way she stays that way in the ER, even if in the hallway.  You at least can avoid sitting upright in the ER waiting room until treatment.  We learned this the hard way with my Dad before he passed; had a terrible evening in the ER waiting room for 5 hours.  Never again.

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, pcur said:

 

I wouldn't sue, jc, but I sure would go have a serious chat with the hospital administration about their release procedures with elderly patients in the ER.  They should have a protocol that requires them to ask if she has assistance at home.  If not, they would have transferred her to a rehab facility until she was ambulatory enough to get out of bed.  Releasing a 92 year-old to go home without assistance is just plain wrong.

 

We always tell my 95 yo MIL, "if you have to go to the ER, go in lying down", which means call an ambulance.  It's worth her $200 copay if they don't admit her.  We tell her if she goes in that way she stays that way in the ER, even if in the hallway.  You at least can avoid sitting upright in the ER waiting room until treatment.  We learned this the hard way with my Dad before he passed; had a terrible evening in the ER waiting room for 5 hours.  Never again.

 

She went to and from the emergency room in an ambulance.  We were in the middle of the Atlantic, had we been there she would have been admitted because my wife the RN would not have let her con the ER people into thinking she was ok.  We were lucky it happened on Halloween because our neighbors took the kids to see her in their costumes (they probably wouldn’t have stopped by) and found out she was in the ER.  She likes to tell people that she is in a nursing home, she isn’t she is in a senior apartment. They only provide meals and once a week cleaning.  Fortunately, with our friends as intermediaries we were able to have the home health provider that has a relationship with the facility to step in about 36 hours after the fall.  Our friends spent those 36 hours with her.  They are saints, and they are off to Universal Studios for Spring break right now.  My wife had a long discussion with the hospital administrators that she used to work with at the hospital, getting assurances that if her mother ever shows up again in an ambulance, they are not to listen to my MIL, amongst other topics about how they screwed up. 

 

On the upside, my MIL, is back to the same level of activity and mobility and is pain free.  I expected that she was going to be either wheel chair bound or worse.  Happy ending this time.

 

As far as my fall a few weekends ago.  I would probably have to sue myself, for stepping on a thin unseen layer of ice on my top brick porch step.  It is funny and painful to watch my ring camera catch me landing on my back on three steps.  

 

JC

[pcur]

4 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

 

She went to and from the emergency room in an ambulance.  We were in the middle of the Atlantic, had we been there she would have been admitted because my wife the RN would not have let her con the ER people into thinking she was ok.  We were lucky it happened on Halloween because our neighbors took the kids to see her in their costumes (they probably wouldn’t have stopped by) and found out she was in the ER.  She likes to tell people that she is in a nursing home, she isn’t she is in a senior apartment. They only provide meals and once a week cleaning.  Fortunately, with our friends as intermediaries we were able to have the home health provider that has a relationship with the facility to step in about 36 hours after the fall.  Our friends spent those 36 hours with her.  They are saints, and they are off to Universal Studios for Spring break right now.  My wife had a long discussion with the hospital administrators that she used to work with at the hospital, getting assurances that if her mother ever shows up again in an ambulance, they are not to listen to my MIL, amongst other topics about how they screwed up. 

 

On the upside, my MIL, is back to the same level of activity and mobility and is pain free.  I expected that she was going to be either wheel chair bound or worse.  Happy ending this time.

 

As far as my fall a few weekends ago.  I would probably have to sue myself, for stepping on a thin unseen layer of ice on my top brick porch step.  It is funny and painful to watch my ring camera catch me landing on my back on three steps.  

 

JC

 

 

Ahhh, yes, the ubiquitous "Oh, I'm just fine; healthy as a horse" con that the elderly pull on health care professionals.  When will they learn (the health care professionls)?  You can't stop the old people from doing this. 

 

My MIL called me one morning about 3 weeks ago, saying she needed to go to the ER.  Luckily, we are spending the winter in an Airbnb for the winter to spend time with her.  I knew it would be a long wait in the ER, and got her an urgent appointment at our HMO in an hour.  She had a bladder infection so bad that it was shredding the interior of her bladder wall, and she was basically hemorrhaging blood through her urine.  They kept her at the clinic, put her on 3 courses of antibiotic IVs IMMEDIATELY,  and had her come back there for 3 more days to do the same thing.  Literally saved her life.  She would most likely have died in the ER waiting for care, because it would have taken too long to go through triage, etc.

 

The "oh, I'm just fine" part?  She saw her regular doctor 2 days before this happen, when she was starting to feel lousy, and didn't say a word; my husband was with her for the appointment.  You cannot cure "old".

 

Sorry about your fall.  America's Funniest Videos?

 

On-topic:  I think the OP will have an uphill climb with the situation with her mother.  There's too may layers of liability, and too many countries:  Jamaica, US, and the ship's country of registry.  If RCCL hasn't stepped up by now (assuming they have been involved in communications), they won't.  If the OP's father is a Vet, it might be time to look into Aid and Attendance benefits to help pay for extra help.

[blueridgemama]

I think the OP has stopped responding to posts and I don't blame them.  I don't know why some people have to be so mean spirited on these forums. Most responses are helpful but there are always those that just can't help themselves from being mean. I know it is a public forum and everyone has the right to respond but there is no need to be uncivil.