Cruising and Ethics

[Toofarfromthesea]

11 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Gosh, I do not understand the need to be so divisive.  

 

Yeah, it was a strange comment from one arguing for 'ethics'.  Gratuitous and insulting.

[AmazedByCruising]

10 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

All my staff receive free flights to and from the ship.

All my staff receive free visas, training, housing, meals, uniforms, and laundry.

Sounds a bit like that terrible "Socialism" that your fellow countrymen are so worried about.

It works quite well on cruise ships.

 

Not to start a political discussion, but of course treating employees well who function well is beneficial for both parties. That's Capitalism at its finest, Americans indeed shouldn't worry about that.

[slidergirl]

10 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Very interesting questions.

You are from the USA, so you are most likely very aware of the ethical conditions there.

 

Let's talk about worker conditions.

My Asian staff earn more on my ship than a medical doctor or university professor earns in their home countries.

How is that minimum wage thing working out for you in the USA? 

Well, if Congress moved to approve the $15  minimum wage, I wouldn't be getting a raise... 

 

All my staff have full medical and dental coverage - 100% employer paid.

How is that Obamacare / Trump Care thing working out for you in the USA?

Well, if Trump wins that court case to strip the pre-existing clause from insurance of any kind, I'm toast.  When I finally retire, it's gonna be Medicare and it's not all that great.

 

All my staff receive free flights to and from the ship.

All my staff receive free visas, training, housing, meals, uniforms, and laundry.

Sounds a bit like that terrible "Socialism" that your fellow countrymen are so worried about.

It works quite well on cruise ships.

A vast majority of People in the US are not aware that "Socialism" and "Democratic Socialism" are two different things.  They hear "Socialism" and think "Communism."  

 

On my ship, we have a large number of employees who have been with the company over 40 years. Can you say the same for your company?

My hotel has been around for 35 years, there are employees who have been with the hotel for 25+ years, not a common thing in the hotel industry.

 

Destination Ports

When my ship visits ports in many parts of the world, I (Hotel Manager) am visited by local Mayors, Governors - occasionally even Heads of State. Why? They want advice on how to convince more cruise lines to visit their country. Maybe they know something you do not?

Maybe they think it's a quick kick to their economy.  They need to visit St.  Thomas on a 6-ship day, Capri, Santorini, to see what that quick kick does to the physical environment, too.

 

Environmental Impact

Yes, unfortunately nearly everything we like to do has an environmental impact.

Did you know that the negative environmental impact of the American cows raised for your McDonalds hamburgers is greater than all the cruise ships on earth?

Sorry, I don't eat cow.  The Impossible Burger is pretty good.  If I go to Shake Shack, the S'room Burger is yummy.  

MMy town "rents" a herd of cows for the summer - they are used to graze in one of our open space fields on a historic farm at the entrance to town.  They help cut down on grasses that could burn, provide a scenic backdrop, and the owners get free grazing land and a place for the cows to have their calves.  It's a good environmental thing. 

Did you know that Americans last year spent more money for bottled water than they did for gasoline? Those billions of plastic bottles will be with us for centuries.

I'm a Hydroflask person.  Except when I drink Pellegrino...

Did you know that the Marshall Islands in the South Pacific, where America did much of its Atomic Testing, are far more radioactive than anyplace on earth - including Chernobyl? The natives who were illegally evicted from those islands will not be able to return for several more centuries.

Yes, I do know about the history of nuclear testing in the South Pacific.  Bikini Atoll.  Apparently, the coral reefs and aquatic life around that atoll are now actually thriving and divers go there to look at the ship wrecks and such.  Yep, the Atoll itself is still basically uninhabited, except for a handful of caretakers and they have everything, including water, shipped in,  

 

I seem to remember an old saying about people throwing stones.........................

Long time, no hear from you.  Nice to see you back!

 

[Cruiser_1977]

@Treatsea My opinion on the Ethics of Cruising is that I don't separate when I am ethical and not. Whether at home or on vacation, I make the best decision I am able at the time. There are places I won't currently spend my money. I don't feel our ethics should be situational. Have my morals changed with time and knowledge, yes. 

 

If I thought the whole cruise industry/individual lines were involved in unfair business practices, I wouldn't cruise. However, just because I may not like the way something is done doesn't make it wrong, illegal or unfair. Good news is, I get to choose 🙂 

Edited July 29, 2019 by JennyB1977

[slidergirl]

4 minutes ago, JennyB1977 said:

@Treatsea My opinion on the Ethics of Cruising is that I don't separate when I am ethical and not. Whether at home or on vacation, I make the best decision I am able at the time. There are places I won't currently spend my money. I don't feel our ethics should be situational. Have my morals changed with time and knowledge, yes. 

I thoroughly agree with you.  

[Treatsea]

Does anyone have opinions about which cruise lines do better than the others?

[clo]

21 hours ago, Treatsea said:

Well, to be fair, I looked up the verse in question they referenced (how many of us know so many off the bat?), and it's about "not making a show of your religion (or righteousness) before others." So I'd say that's one of the good ones.

And, ya know what, I agree with you.  And I apologize.  A friend of mine many decades ago made up a quote: "The devil quotes the scriptures better than the angels."  I've kinda always believed that.  Thanks.

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, Treatsea said:

Does anyone have opinions about which cruise lines do better than the others?

 

Well I liked the way Aranui works with the local communities, listens to what the residents want from the cruises and provides a vital service to the archipelagos. However it is expensive and an extremely niche cruise that would only appeal to a few people. 

 

I also once attended an information day about Aurora cruises and they really talked up their environmental credentials, they no longer use any single use plastic, the new ships were designed be more efficient so as to pollute less, and they restrict passenger numbers to lessen environmental impact but like Aranui expensive and very niche 🙄. 

 

Overall cruise ships are trying to more efficient, if for no other reason than to cut costs and single use plastic is slowly being fazed out. I don't know if there is any way to make ships quiet (the problem of noise pollution in the sea is only a recently discovered issue) but that is as much a problem with freighters as cruises.

 

As for tourist numbers that is probably something only government’s can control. Cruise companies will never voluntarily reduce their ship numbers or passengers numbers no matter how much locals protest. 

[clo]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

As for tourist numbers that is probably something only government’s can control. Cruise companies will never voluntarily reduce their ship numbers or passengers numbers no matter how much locals protest. 

As I've mentioned before, UNESCO is threatening to revoke the heritage status of Dubrovnik.  From what I've read the city agrees and wants to comply.  I wonder what it would take.  It was sure  a mess when we were there, not on a cruise.  We'd never return for that reason.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, clo said:

As I've mentioned before, UNESCO is threatening to revoke the heritage status of Dubrovnik.  From what I've read the city agrees and wants to comply.  I wonder what it would take.  It was sure  a mess when we were there, not on a cruise.  We'd never return for that reason.

 

I am curious but what made Dubrovnik such a mess during your trip? I was there about five years also not on a cruise and it wasn't as bad as we were anticipating, though we were travelling in a shoulder season, perhaps that made our experience different🙄.

[ldubs]

4 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I am curious but what made Dubrovnik such a mess during your trip? I was there about five years also not on a cruise and it wasn't as bad as we were anticipating, though we were travelling in a shoulder season, perhaps that made our experience different🙄.

 

We were there a couple of years ago and the crowds were really thick compared to the first time we visited a lot of years ago.  Don't know if it was the time of year or just that the place is now popular.  If it is like that all the time I can see how some would take issue with the number of visitors.    

[MBP&O2/O]

Another poorly paid cruise line employee

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by MBP&O2/O

[Treatsea]

That's a CEO, so I presume that is in jest.

[clo]

9 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I am curious but what made Dubrovnik such a mess during your trip? I was there about five years also not on a cruise and it wasn't as bad as we were anticipating, though we were travelling in a shoulder season, perhaps that made our experience different🙄.

A mess as in swarming with tourists.  And this was in October.  We finally darted down a back street and had a glass of wine to ease the pain.  And found a somewhat upscale place, most seemingly non-tourists or at least Europeans, over looking the water.  That was just last year.

[DCGuy64]

What a great and really fascinating topic, thank you to the OP for starting this thread. My wife and I thoroughly enjoy meeting the crew and the staff of the various bars, restaurants, etc. aboard the ship when we cruise. I always say it's my favorite part of cruising, and it really is. I am a naturally curious person and so I try and see if I know the area where a particular crewmember is from, try and speak a few words of his/her language (or ask to be taught some by him/her), etc. It is cool to see how much we all have in common with one another. For my own part, I do think cruise line employees do work very hard, and many of them sacrifice time away from their families, but not involuntarily. It's clear they are happy to have the work and the income. I definitely don't believe they deserve or want pity. But, and this is just my opinion, I do think they appreciate it when you get to know them as people and not just as servers who are waiting on you. Thanks for letting me participate in this very interesting discussion. 

[clo]

27 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

What a great and really fascinating topic, thank you to the OP for starting this thread. My wife and I thoroughly enjoy meeting the crew and the staff of the various bars, restaurants, etc. aboard the ship when we cruise. I always say it's my favorite part of cruising, and it really is. I am a naturally curious person and so I try and see if I know the area where a particular crewmember is from, try and speak a few words of his/her language (or ask to be taught some by him/her), etc. It is cool to see how much we all have in common with one another. For my own part, I do think cruise line employees do work very hard, and many of them sacrifice time away from their families, but not involuntarily. It's clear they are happy to have the work and the income. I definitely don't believe they deserve or want pity. But, and this is just my opinion, I do think they appreciate it when you get to know them as people and not just as servers who are waiting on you. Thanks for letting me participate in this very interesting discussion. 

I completely agree with you.  Talking  to people is super and talking to people from different parts of the world is just the best.