Cruising and Ethics

[Treatsea]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

While local ownership would obviously be beneficial to the locals,  the tax revenues and the salaries which tourism generate both help the residents.  It can be argued that any business, anywhere, tends to “take advantage of the workers”.

Good point, poor working conditions/worker treatment seems to be the norm of the world, sadly. If we were hellbent on only pursuing businesses with good working environments or ensuring our money is going where we like it, we could never buy anything.

[DarrenM]

Shouldn't stop you asking questions though.

 

Easiest thing in the world to keep turning a blind eye 

[c-boy]

1 hour ago, DarrenM said:

I am loving how some are comparing these jobs at sea to their own roles. 

 

Honestly. I try to be funny. But some responses here are far funnier. 

 

I need new material.

 

To answer an earlier point. If I knew the cruise company was deliberately dumping waste then I would never use them again.

 

Only scum do things like that and I wouldnt wish to be associated with such.

so what line have you booked your next cruise with ?

[DarrenM]

Ethical cruising uk

[CPT Trips]

I try to avoid single use water bottles. But, truth be told, I do use them in locations where I don't trust the local water for a refill.

 

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, DarrenM said:

Funny innit? Everyone seems to want to eat with the captain. I would rather est with the waiters. The captain is just the  bloody bus driver.

Personally, I have no desire to eat with the Captain, probably because I was one for way too many years.

 

Comments like this clearly demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of a modern Bridge Command & Control procedures and ship management structure. BTW - the Captain doesn't drive and the best and experienced ones don't even do all the parking.🙂

 

[DarrenM]

1 minute ago, Heidi13 said:

Personally, I have no desire to eat with the Captain, probably because I was one for way too many years.

 

Comments like this clearly demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge of a modern Bridge Command & Control procedures and ship management structure. BTW - the Captain doesn't drive and the best and experienced ones don't even do all the parking.🙂

 

I have been on coaches where the driver wasn't t driving

[Nic6318]

39 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

Shouldn't stop you asking questions though.

 

Easiest thing in the world to keep turning a blind eye 

 

Hi

 

Yes. Exactly. 

 

So what kind of sweat shop were the clothes you are wearing made in? How about the food you eat. What kind of investigation did you do to ensure that the farm workers that help feed you are paid a fair wage?

 

As you said "easiest thing in the world to keep turning a blind eye". If at all, most people will just focus on one thing and let every other "issue" slide. I think most of us (including myself) are a bit on the hypocritical side when we start discussing things like "cruising and ethics", citing random news articles. Although I dislike the comment, this certainly must rise to the level of "first world problem".

[DarrenM]

I agree we are all hypocritical. And until recently I never gave it a second thought.

 

But as I get older I seem to be caring more. Which is worrying 😉

[Toofarfromthesea]

I live my life and pay no attention to the nags, the scolds, and the virtue signallers.

[Elaine5715]

12 hours ago, DarrenM said:

Flying, diesel cars, Buses, trains, and now cruise ships.

 

If the extremists had their way, nobody would be allowed to travel anywhere, ever.

 

and none of us would have electricity.

 

My biggest concern with cruise ships is the welfare of those working for us to make a cruise magnificient.

 

I really feel for the waiters and the cleaning staff. Their lives are incredibly hard, and I find myself feeling sorry for them, and embarrassed that they are there to serve me. Nobody serves me when at home, not with the constraints there is on their lives.

 

I know there isnt an answer to this, but I have the utmost respect for these people, as its just by pure luck that I turned a different corner at soem point in my life, otherwise I could have been living like that. I didnt do well at school, only attended college part time, and didnt go to University.

 

I consider myself fortunate.

You may want to read some books written by crew members.  They don't see themselves the way you seem to see them.  

[SantaFeFan]

55 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

You may want to read some books written by crew members.  They don't see themselves the way you seem to see them.  

 

A lot of things aren't the way he sees them. 

[chipmaster]

20 hours ago, Treatsea said:

I love to travel, as we all do, and recently I've been thinking much about travel ethics. Because I love to cruise that has compelled me to think about ethics of cruising. Recently, cruises have been getting a bad rap, with some suggesting you should never go on one. They cite things such as, worker conditions, environmental impact and impact on the destination ports.

 

I looked on here and was surprised that Cruise Critic didn't have an article on cruising and ethics. What is your take on the ethics of cruising?

 

What is it about the cruising that you feel is an ethical issue?

 

Big meg ships?

Crew Pay?

Tourism in general?

 

Do these same things apply to almost everything the middle class and richer do for pleasure?  Slippery slope to focus on cruising 

[Treatsea]

19 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

What is it about the cruising that you feel is an ethical issue?

 

Big meg ships?

Crew Pay?

Tourism in general?

 

Do these same things apply to almost everything the middle class and richer do for pleasure?  Slippery slope to focus on cruising 

 

Some I've talked to see megaships as more of a problem than small ships. The principle to me is that, not every way of traveling is ethical. For some people, they'll evaluate countries as places they won't go to. Or peruse businesses that are exploitative. I'm not intending to write off cruising but there are some things I won't touch with a ten foot pole, such as voluntourism.

 

[chipmaster]

23 minutes ago, Treatsea said:

 

Some I've talked to see megaships as more of a problem than small ships. The principle to me is that, not every way of traveling is ethical. For some people, they'll evaluate countries as places they won't go to. Or peruse businesses that are exploitative. I'm not intending to write off cruising but there are some things I won't touch with a ten foot pole, such as voluntourism.

 

 

In some ways Megaship is most ecologically, move the largest number most efficiently, no.  No different than the earlier concept of 747 and Airbus380, but business changed for airlines.   The megaships you don't find sailing to many of the places the 1K or 2K sized ships, simple logistics complication, but from a efficiency of fuel/crew etc. I'd wager they are more efficient.    

 

Take a place like Santorini, four big ships or two mega ships?      Of course their are logistical issues but that is similar to the A380, if the ports put in place the necessary tenders or port facilities I see no ethical issue.   Ethics and practical engineering are very different.   

 

[iancal]

When it comes to profit, ethics, and everything in between profit ranks at the top, ethics at the bottom.

 

There are reasons why these ships are foreign flagged and why the cruise lines spend so much money on lobbying.

 

My guess is that not one employee is gaoled on ethics.  My guess is that there are employees at several levels who are goaled  and promoted based on revenue and profit.  

Edited July 27, 2019 by iancal

[clo]

5 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I live my life and pay no attention to the nags, the scolds, and the virtue signallers.

Well, that's fine, of course.  But do YOU do things to try and make a difference?

[clo]

3 hours ago, Treatsea said:

voluntourism

I had to look that up.  Didn't know there's a name for it.  What's the problem with it? I'm sincerely interested.

[Treatsea]

8 minutes ago, clo said:

I had to look that up.  Didn't know there's a name for it.  What's the problem with it? I'm sincerely interested.

Glad you asked, here’s a few articles that explain the issue:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/sep/13/the-business-of-voluntourism-do-western-do-gooders-actually-do-harm

http://web.archive.org/web/20160218001420/http://almost.thedoctorschannel.com/14323-2

https://www.savethechildren.org.au/Our-Stories/The-truth-about-voluntourism

https://www.worldtravelguide.net/features/feature/does-voluntourism-do-more-harm-than-good/

[clo]

12 minutes ago, Treatsea said:

Glad you asked, here’s a few articles that explain the issue:

 

Thanks so much.  I'll be reading all of these.  I'm an self-described 'info-junkie.'

[Petoonya]

59 minutes ago, clo said:

Thanks so much.  I'll be reading all of these.  I'm an self-described 'info-junkie.'

Cath...would love to run some things around you.

petuniafish@gmail.com

[clo]

1 minute ago, Petoonya said:

Cath...would love to run some things around you.

petuniafish@gmail.com

Oh, sweetie.  That is so funny.  I was just about to give you MY email.  We're in Roseburg, en route to Seattle.  I'll write tomorrow.  We're considering returning to Reno via the coast.  xoc

PS:  Came through a lot of smoke south of here.  Sigh.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Treatsea said:

Glad you asked, here’s a few articles that explain the issue:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/sep/13/the-business-of-voluntourism-do-western-do-gooders-actually-do-harm

http://web.archive.org/web/20160218001420/http://almost.thedoctorschannel.com/14323-2

https://www.savethechildren.org.au/Our-Stories/The-truth-about-voluntourism

https://www.worldtravelguide.net/features/feature/does-voluntourism-do-more-harm-than-good/

 

To be fair to voluntourism there are good ones that that are focused on progressing communities not just keeping them dependant on charity. The thing is like everything you have to your research so you are making the best choices.

Edited July 28, 2019 by ilikeanswers

[Petoonya]

Sorry!

Edited July 28, 2019 by Petoonya
wrong thread!

[Treatsea]

11 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

To be fair to voluntourism there are good ones that that are focused on progressing communities not just keeping them dependant on charity. The thing is like everything you have to your research so you are making the best choices.

True, I believe medical mission trips such as Doctors Without Borders are good ventures.