Tip to the server?

[buckeyefrank]

18 hours ago, casofilia said:

All is speculation until ALL cruise lines open their books to close scrutiny regarding any and all gratuities that pass through their hands.

They do...  Just not as detailed to you as you want it.  It's called an annual financial audit that's required by the SEC.

[buckeyefrank]

18 hours ago, FLConnie said:

We still like the idea of tipping those well who actually serve us.  Who knows what percentage they get when it's all divided out.  I will say, the 21 day we were on had the fewest amount of beverage packages the bartenders had ever seen. And we were 2 of 10 guests with Premium!  This was a new sailing for NCL.  They all said they only get 18% of the beverage package gratuity when they serve the customers who have it.  So their tips were way down for three weeks. Plus there were I think 144 cabins who had no add-ons at all (drinks, wifi, specialty dining, excursions through NCL).  So they weren't paying service charges on anything but their cabin.  Servers would run to us for service and practically make us take bottles of wine back to our cabin at dinner!

This is the crew worker trying to guilt you into paying more tips.  You have no way of knowing (and I imagine they don't either) where their tips are for a particular cruise until after it's over.  Maybe they do, but I can't imagine it being that real time for the crew.  Not to mention that those who don't have a drink package, still have an 18% charge added for gratuity that goes to the bartender and server.  It's not like they aren't getting a tip for all those people.  Lastly, the 144 cabins would still be charged the DSC for their dining room staff, etc.  The crew was playing you.

[KateQ22003]

19 hours ago, casofilia said:

PLEASE do NOT stop paying the DSC.   

 

OR do you go into the Galley and tip everyone who has made any part of any meal you have had.   OR do you go into the Laundry and tip everyone who has washed anything of yours.

 

Without those two groups of people your cruise would be a sorry affair.   Without the galley hands the servers would have nothing to do and/or you would be eating off dirty plates.  Without the laundry workers you would soon be complaining about dirty towels and smelly sheets.

I just have to ask - do you seek out the laundry folks when you stay in a hotel to tip them? How about the kitchen staff? No? To me, it is assumed that those positions, which are not normally tipped positions, are paid accordingly. Laundry people in a hotel make more per hour than a waitress for this reason.

[KateQ22003]

20 hours ago, smplybcause said:

 

No auditor would sign off on a company collecting money specifically for the crew and then not give it to the crew. Would never pass muster in a company that has to follow SEC regulations. It might not be called out as a line called DSC on their paycheck, but it is getting to the employees. 

But they don't call it money specifically for the crew, they call it a daily service charge. Their own website says the money helps to support their pay and incentive programs. Just like the resort fees most hotels are charging now, it is not assumed that the money makes its way into the staff's pockets.

[smplybcause]

15 minutes ago, KateQ22003 said:

But they don't call it money specifically for the crew, they call it a daily service charge. Their own website says the money helps to support their pay and incentive programs. Just like the resort fees most hotels are charging now, it is not assumed that the money makes its way into the staff's pockets.

 

"Their own website says the money helps to support their pay and incentive programs."

 

Who else gets pay and incentives than the employees in the DSC pool? 

 

Resort fees don't mention staff at all, it says it's for the amenities. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by smplybcause

[Trimone]

19 hours ago, FLConnie said:

I know that as it is clearly stated who is included in the DSC.  If one has a Butler and Consierge I would hope they would tip them regardless, but I'm sure some don't. As you said, it's an interesting subject on cruises versus "real life". Cruise staff in all areas must do OK, or they wouldn't remain on the ships. 

Concierge is prepaid in DSC

[mjkacmom]

7 minutes ago, Trimone said:

Concierge is prepaid in DSC

Since when?

[mjkacmom]

33 minutes ago, KateQ22003 said:

I just have to ask - do you seek out the laundry folks when you stay in a hotel to tip them? How about the kitchen staff? No? To me, it is assumed that those positions, which are not normally tipped positions, are paid accordingly. Laundry people in a hotel make more per hour than a waitress for this reason.

Yes, on land based hotels, pay structure on cruise ships is set up differently.

[Trimone]

4 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Since when?

Booked cruise 26th November 2019...

 

[mjkacmom]

https://www.ncl.com/faq/money-matters

[erdoran]

6 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

Since when?

 

6 hours ago, Trimone said:

Concierge is prepaid in DSC

 

 

Trimone, you are in the UK, right?  I think we US folks don’t have the concierge prepaid.  

[Trimone]

7 hours ago, erdoran said:

Hi Erdoran, no I paid £422 upfront, but it may be my mistake? I’m in a concierge room, therefore it maybe just DSC cost, and not the staff member personally..

 

 

Trimone, you are in the UK, right?  I think we US folks don’t have the concierge prepaid.  

 

[KateQ22003]

17 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

Yes, on land based hotels, pay structure on cruise ships is set up differently.

But how is the average cruiser supposed to know this? Americans are known to tip for anything and everything, but even then we don't tip laundry staff. Their pay is supposed to cover their jobs, just like the maintenance and front desk staff. Expecting your passengers to pay everyone a decent wage because you won't is ridiculous.

[mjkacmom]

1 hour ago, KateQ22003 said:

But how is the average cruiser supposed to know this? Americans are known to tip for anything and everything, but even then we don't tip laundry staff. Their pay is supposed to cover their jobs, just like the maintenance and front desk staff. Expecting your passengers to pay everyone a decent wage because you won't is ridiculous.

Back in the day, passengers were given envelopes to tip out, then the cruise lines substituted the DSC so passengers didn’t have to worry about it, made it as simple as possible. Whether passengers pay through the DSC or higher fares, the amount would be the same. However, they want to advertise the lowest prices possible. Personally, it makes zero difference to me if I’m paying $1000 pp, or $800 + $200 pp, because it’s exactly the same.

[KateQ22003]

2 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Back in the day, passengers were given envelopes to tip out, then the cruise lines substituted the DSC so passengers didn’t have to worry about it, made it as simple as possible. Whether passengers pay through the DSC or higher fares, the amount would be the same. However, they want to advertise the lowest prices possible. Personally, it makes zero difference to me if I’m paying $1000 pp, or $800 + $200 pp, because it’s exactly the same.

I completely agree with you on this. Personally, I liked the envelope system, and still enjoy writing a thank-you note with an additional tip to those who made my cruise great. Would it be easier if they added the tip to the price of the cruise? Probably. But either way, I think people want to know that the money they leave makes it into the hands of those they think it does. That's what was great about the envelope system.

[mjkacmom]

5 minutes ago, KateQ22003 said:

I completely agree with you on this. Personally, I liked the envelope system, and still enjoy writing a thank-you note with an additional tip to those who made my cruise great. Would it be easier if they added the tip to the price of the cruise? Probably. But either way, I think people want to know that the money they leave makes it into the hands of those they think it does. That's what was great about the envelope system.

But then they switched to no set dining, different servers every night. I prefer the DSC, at the salon I go to, I have a colorist, then another person takes out the foils and puts on the glaze, then yet another washes it out, then yet another cuts and dries (and if she gets backed up yet another dries). I wish they just would allow me to add 20%, but no, I fill up several little envelopes. I dread it. We always tip our steward, dietary manager (food allergy) and bartenders extra, and kids club counselors when the kids were younger.

[erdoran]

9 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Back in the day, passengers were given envelopes to tip out, then the cruise lines substituted the DSC so passengers didn’t have to worry about it, made it as simple as possible. Whether passengers pay through the DSC or higher fares, the amount would be the same. However, they want to advertise the lowest prices possible. Personally, it makes zero difference to me if I’m paying $1000 pp, or $800 + $200 pp, because it’s exactly the same.

 

This applies across the industry, not JUST NCL!

 

The problem with the $1k vs the $800 + $200 is that in the envelope days, as @KateQ22003 says, we knew the envelope contents got to the folks they were intended for and there was no "back of the house" reliance on an optional "service charge" for a fair wage.  I found it uncomfortable and a bit of a pain to have to have exact change to stuff envelopes, and on my first cruise the TA didn't even warn me ahead of time so that was a bit of a shock!!  Pre-internet days of course.  

 

A lot of folks, including me, hated the envelopes, but at least there was the confidence that the GRATUITY that I was paying (and frankly, expected to pay thanks to US culture, but whatever) wasn't used to subsidize NCL's payroll, staff parties, morale boosting events, uniforms, etc - it went into crew pockets, or at least was more likely to end up there.  There was no thought given to the kitchen, laundry, etc because in  no other industry that I know of is the customer expected to tip them - they are paid whatever the proper wage is for that classification, 100% from their employer, and if customers choose not to tip, they still get the proper wage.  

 

if NCL adds DSC to cruise fare and at that point there is no tipping expectation, then I would hope that all crew salaries are raised to reflect 100% collection of DSC, but the reality is that even if that happens we won't know, AND more likely we'll get hit for tips, won't realize we have already tipped fairly, and the envelopes will make a return on top of having fully paid DSC as part of fare.  As far as getting hit/sob storied for tips, there are multiple stories across these boards of that scenario, right down to what I think is the most outrageous one of all, a steward(ess) (female steward) telling guests that crew see almost nothing from DSC so they should remove their DSC and give her 100% of it directly in cash as a tip!  

[erdoran]

6 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

But then they switched to no set dining, different servers every night. I prefer the DSC, at the salon I go to, I have a colorist, then another person takes out the foils and puts on the glaze, then yet another washes it out, then yet another cuts and dries (and if she gets backed up yet another dries). I wish they just would allow me to add 20%, but no, I fill up several little envelopes. I dread it. We always tip our steward, dietary manager (food allergy) and bartenders extra, and kids club counselors when the kids were younger.

Yeah, you make a good point about the no set dining, and also about the salon!  WHO do you tip?

 

I really hate that part of US culture, for your salon I agree, they should add 20% to the bill automatically and increase salaries accordingly.

[sanger727]

On 12/31/2019 at 6:08 AM, KateQ22003 said:

But how is the average cruiser supposed to know this? Americans are known to tip for anything and everything, but even then we don't tip laundry staff. Their pay is supposed to cover their jobs, just like the maintenance and front desk staff. Expecting your passengers to pay everyone a decent wage because you won't is ridiculous.

 

The average cruiser doesn't need to know who to tip and how much or who is paid what. That's the whole point of the DSC IMO. The cruise lines anymore say that they are taking care of the tipping automatically between DSC, prepaid grats on specialty dining, and prepaid grats on the beverage package. That's fine with me, no need to worry about it while on the trip. It's not up to me to know how it gets distributed and to who. If the employees feel that they aren't getting their fare share with norweigan, there are other cruise lines that do auto tipping as well. I don't routine walk around asking people how they get paid and how much they make and with what benefits. It's really none of my business.

[KateQ22003]

40 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

The average cruiser doesn't need to know who to tip and how much or who is paid what. That's the whole point of the DSC IMO. The cruise lines anymore say that they are taking care of the tipping automatically between DSC, prepaid grats on specialty dining, and prepaid grats on the beverage package. That's fine with me, no need to worry about it while on the trip. It's not up to me to know how it gets distributed and to who. If the employees feel that they aren't getting their fare share with norweigan, there are other cruise lines that do auto tipping as well. I don't routine walk around asking people how they get paid and how much they make and with what benefits. It's really none of my business.

I disagree with this. While it may not be our business what the crew makes, it absolutely is our business if our money is not going where we are being told it's going. If it's going to the crew 100%, call it a gratuity and be done with it. If it's not, don't insinuate that it is. Too many of the crew have said they see little to none of our DSC for me to ignore. I'm not a rich woman; I want to know where my money goes.

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, KateQ22003 said:

I disagree with this. While it may not be our business what the crew makes, it absolutely is our business if our money is not going where we are being told it's going. If it's going to the crew 100%, call it a gratuity and be done with it. If it's not, don't insinuate that it is. Too many of the crew have said they see little to none of our DSC for me to ignore. I'm not a rich woman; I want to know where my money goes.

 

Couldn't disagree more. When I book a cruise I don't ask them how they distribute my cruise fare to staff, to the officers, to the food, to the entertainers, to the fuel, etc. If they tell me you cruise fare is X and we charge Y per day to take care of the staff and while tips are appreciated they aren't necessary... fine. They don't call it a gratuity. They do however say that there's no obligation to tip and no recommended guidelines. It's really none of my business where the service charge goes and how they use it. 

[KateQ22003]

17 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

Couldn't disagree more. When I book a cruise I don't ask them how they distribute my cruise fare to staff, to the officers, to the food, to the entertainers, to the fuel, etc. If they tell me you cruise fare is X and we charge Y per day to take care of the staff and while tips are appreciated they aren't necessary... fine. They don't call it a gratuity. They do however say that there's no obligation to tip and no recommended guidelines. It's really none of my business where the service charge goes and how they use it. 

You are right that they don't call it a gratuity, but they do lead people to believe that it is. Just read these boards; the majority of travelers think that the DSC is given 100% to the crew. They lead people to believe that if you eliminate it from your bill, you are stiffing the poor staff. They also make it difficult to remove, even if they do call it "discretionary". It is always my business where my money goes, especially if it's going into company coffers rather than where I was lead to believe it would go.

[ray98]

On 12/31/2019 at 8:24 AM, mjkacmom said:

But then they switched to no set dining, different servers every night. I prefer the DSC

 

 

Yup....this is always overlooked.  Prepaid gratuities a response to changes in the industry, mainly a transition away from set dining times coupled with electronic payments becoming wildly popular. 

 

When everyone on the ship had a set dining staff the tips worked out, all the servers got an equal share of the pie from their dinner guests that compensated them for all their services for the week across all of the other meals.  When that set staff largely went away then the lines had to pool the tips, no other way to distribute them.

[HowardK]

On 12/30/2019 at 11:00 AM, buckeyefrank said:

This is the crew worker trying to guilt you into paying more tips.  You have no way of knowing (and I imagine they don't either) where their tips are for a particular cruise until after it's over.  Maybe they do, but I can't imagine it being that real time for the crew.  Not to mention that those who don't have a drink package, still have an 18% charge added for gratuity that goes to the bartender and server.  It's not like they aren't getting a tip for all those people.  Lastly, the 144 cabins would still be charged the DSC for their dining room staff, etc.  The crew was playing you.

What also bothers me is that- I am paying a lot of money for the cruise- it shouldn't be my problem if NCL is screwing their employees over via allocation methods of tips. It seems to me from looking at their 10-K that the DSC is rolling up under on-board revenue- I doubt they do a 1:1 disbursement of fees collected.

Needless to say- I sometimes tip those who directly assist me, whether it be an excellent room steward, musicians at Howl at the Moon- or 2 servers who comped my meal on time- I gave the tip directly to each of them and filled out a comment card saying they were nice 

[buckeyefrank]

21 minutes ago, HowardK said:

What also bothers me is that- I am paying a lot of money for the cruise- it shouldn't be my problem if NCL is screwing their employees over via allocation methods of tips. It seems to me from looking at their 10-K that the DSC is rolling up under on-board revenue- I doubt they do a 1:1 disbursement of fees collected.

Needless to say- I sometimes tip those who directly assist me, whether it be an excellent room steward, musicians at Howl at the Moon- or 2 servers who comped my meal on time- I gave the tip directly to each of them and filled out a comment card saying they were nice 

It wouldn't be under on-board revenue.  It should be directly booked into a liability account and not roll through the income statement at all. The money collected is not revenue and it's not expense.  It is nothing but a balance sheet transaction.