Cunard's Coronavirus Cancellations/Refunds (Merged threads)

[tilournextadventure]

8 hours ago, bluemarble said:

 

I think you may be misinterpreting these terms. They represent a relaxation of the 120 day final payment date and the usual US cancellation fee schedule where penalties would normally start to apply at the 120 day mark, for sailings through September 30. Anyone on a US booking scheduled to sail by July 31 can still take advantage of the flexible cancellation terms offering FCC on sailings through July 31. That's how I interpret it anyway.

Ah, okay, that's good to hear. Thanks, bluemarble. 

[Proceed with Caution]

Thankyou to all who replied to my initial 'ramblings'.

 

I think i am going to 'hold out for a few more days in the hope that the British side of Cunards operations halves their balance due payments to reflect the American approach - which seems to have gone from 120-60 days.  

 

[bunkrest]

Spoke to Cunard today regarding £600 of cancelled excursions from the April canaries cruise which I cancelled 24 hours before Cunard cancelled it.

At the time of cancellation I was told the money for my excursions will be refunded to the card I paid  only to be told now the £600 will be converted into on board spend on any future cruise.

I took issue with this so it has been handed to public relations who will look into it but for now my money is floating around in cyber space.

[Canuker]

59 minutes ago, bunkrest said:

Spoke to Cunard today regarding £600 of cancelled excursions from the April canaries cruise which I cancelled 24 hours before Cunard cancelled it.

At the time of cancellation I was told the money for my excursions will be refunded to the card I paid  only to be told now the £600 will be converted into on board spend on any future cruise.

I took issue with this so it has been handed to public relations who will look into it but for now my money is floating around in cyber space.

If this is true, Cunard are doing themselves no favours with this approach. It would seem to be a blatant cash grab, since they are only acting as an agent for the excursion operators, to whom most of the money would ordinarily be turned over anyway. Legally, this is very thin ice. Especially since tours can be cancelled as late as being on board the cruise.
 

bunkrest: if there is still no satisfaction from Cunard, I'd contact the tour operators directly and tell them your experience. My guess is they will be furious.
Also, it begs the question, if they are prepared to do this with other people's money, which other third parties are next?

Airlines?

Travel agents?

Hotels?

The list goes on.

Yes, very thin ice.

Cunard also made the mistake of, as you recount, handing this issue to public relations. They should have referred it to their finance or legal specialists.

 

bunkrest, I'd be grateful if you would let us know on here how your story unfolds. I do really hope, from everybody's standpoint, that Cunard relents on this and also, hopefully gives you an abject apology. If not, they could be digging a seriously big hole for themselves. And then it will go to the legal department, whether they like it or not.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Canuker

[IB2]

Those of us waiting for redress from cancelled cruises would do well to think about the wider picture.  If the cruise companies are forced to the wall because of everyone pushing to get their money now, then there is a clear risk of collapse and many won’t see their money at all.

 

So be patient, recognise that the companies have a severe cash flow crisis right now, and be prepared to wait for your refund.  You are alive, you aren’t infected by this virus, and you have enough spare spending money to be able afford cruises with Cunard.  So count yourselves very fortunate.

Edited March 26, 2020 by IB2

[bunkrest]

IB2 If that’s directed at me may I suggest you re read my post.

my point is I was told I would be refunded for excursions but now told that isn’t going to happen and the money converted into on board spend.

 

And yes canuker I will keep you informed.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by bunkrest
Added

[samiam1]

8 minutes ago, IB2 said:

Those of us waiting for redress from cancelled cruises would do well to think about the wider picture.  If the cruise companies are forced to the wall because of everyone pushing to get their money now, then there is a clear risk of collapse and many won’t see their money at all.

 

So be patient, recognise that the companies have a severe cash flow crisis right now, and be prepared to wait for your refund.  You are alive, you aren’t infected by this virus, and you have enough spare spending money to be able afford cruises with Cunard.  So count yourselves very fortunate.

 

I am really worried - while Cunard handled the crisis well, other lines in the Carnival fleet are in deep water with COVID:  Princess, Costa, Holland America all have their issues especially because it seems cruise ships were a major disease spreading vector which should have been obvious after Diamond Princess.

[exlondoner]

10 minutes ago, IB2 said:

Those of us waiting for redress from cancelled cruises would do well to think about the wider picture.  If the cruise companies are forced to the wall because of everyone pushing to get their money now, then there is a clear risk of collapse and many won’t see their money at all.

 

So be patient, recognise that the companies have a severe cash flow crisis right now, and be prepared to wait for your refund.  You are alive, you aren’t infected by this virus, and you have enough spare spending money to be able afford cruises with Cunard.  So count yourselves very fortunate.

 

Ah, someone else in favour of a wider perspective, but I fear we are very much a minority.

[samiam1]

Just now, exlondoner said:

 

Ah, someone else in favour of a wider perspective, but I fear we are very much a minority.

 

If you had 10K tied up in a cancelled but unrefunded cruise you would be worried too.

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, samiam1 said:

 

If you had 10K tied up in a cancelled but unrefunded cruise you would be worried too.

 

I do, or, at any rate, an about to be cancelled one. And I am resigned to not seeing the money for a long time.

[Host Hattie]

1 hour ago, bunkrest said:

Spoke to Cunard today regarding £600 of cancelled excursions from the April canaries cruise which I cancelled 24 hours before Cunard cancelled it.

At the time of cancellation I was told the money for my excursions will be refunded to the card I paid  only to be told now the £600 will be converted into on board spend on any future cruise.

I took issue with this so it has been handed to public relations who will look into it but for now my money is floating around in cyber space.

This is from the Cunard website

 

 

[bunkrest]

Thank you host Hettie that is most informative.

I will wait until communication is sent out regarding the refunds.

just to inform folks who may have thought I was in a mad rush to get a refund my asking Cunard today on this matter was on the tale end of cancelling a July Iceland cruise and getting a fcc the lady asked if I needed help with anything else so I explained about the cancelled April Canaries cruise and I had no notification of refunds To which I  was told The 600 spent on excursions would be converted into on board spend for a future cruise.

[LadyL1]

Thank you bunkrest.

Last week we cancelled the 16 night QV Baltic cruise in May. We should be getting 50% cash refund and 50% (+bonus%) FCC, but as yet the credit card is devoid of this transaction. We managed to cancel one of 2 excursions we had booked in St Petersburg (money refunded) via Cunard from their website; the other failed to respond.  We have been told by email that the issue was being sorted! Fortunately, in all other ports we had planned to do our sightseeing by using the train or local transport.

I am not sure if the above information is being backdated re OBC, or from what date it applies.

[ellie1145]

31 minutes ago, bunkrest said:

Thank you host Hettie that is most informative.

I will wait until communication is sent out regarding the refunds.

just to inform folks who may have thought I was in a mad rush to get a refund my asking Cunard today on this matter was on the tale end of cancelling a July Iceland cruise and getting a fcc the lady asked if I needed help with anything else so I explained about the cancelled April Canaries cruise and I had no notification of refunds To which I  was told The 600 spent on excursions would be converted into on board spend for a future cruise.

 

Glad you are getting things sorted.😊

Edited March 26, 2020 by ellie1145

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, IB2 said:

Those of us waiting for redress from cancelled cruises would do well to think about the wider picture.  If the cruise companies are forced to the wall because of everyone pushing to get their money now, then there is a clear risk of collapse and many won’t see their money at all.

 

So be patient, recognise that the companies have a severe cash flow crisis right now, and be prepared to wait for your refund.  You are alive, you aren’t infected by this virus, and you have enough spare spending money to be able afford cruises with Cunard.  So count yourselves very fortunate.

 

1 hour ago, exlondoner said:

 

Ah, someone else in favour of a wider perspective, but I fear we are very much a minority.

 

I have a substantial amount over £20k awaiting refund. I'm lucky to have substantial savings so won't be hurt in any meaningful way if I either have to wait a year or so or it goes pear shaped and I don't get the money back.  Anyway  under lockdown,  my expenditure is significantly less than income and can't see us spending much for the next 6 months.

 

However many people are not in such a fortunate position.  Small businesses suddenly going in survival mode, families with reduced income but bills and mortgages to pay. The refund is needed to stop them spiralling into debt. After the economic shock of coronavirus many families and small business owners won't be contemplating holidays for quite a few years

 

If the choice is between small businesses and families versus Carnival then I think we'd all want the former to survive. The survival of Cunard cannot be by robbing customers. 

 

Just because we want refunds to be paid to consumers now doesn't mean we don't have a wider perspective,  but different priorities,  the survival of families is more important than next year's cruise or the cruise companies. 

[alc13]

On 3/25/2020 at 8:56 AM, exlondoner said:

 

Actually, I don't think I mentioned Carnival Corp. Such specific concern as I showed was for the owners of small businesses in the travel sector. As for appearing very charitable, I wasn't seeking to do that, just suggesting a wider perspective might be better for everybody in the long run. It often is.

 

I've moved from wishing for a refund for our yet-to-be-canceled-who-are-they-kidding Apr 16 cruise to feeling satisfied if we get a FCC, and an eventual chance to use it.  The economy - local, state, national, global - needs support, and if holding on to our $$ keeps someone employed somewhere, we can be patient. 

 

Also want to say our US Congress has really stepped up in the last couple of weeks with significant legislation.  Didn't know they had it in them!  Kudos, Congress.

 

[Neuhoftraveler]

The CEO of Carnival was quoted in today's Washington Post as saying, "We don't need a bailout in terms of giving us money.  Getting a loan guarantee would be helpful."  He was talking  specifically about from Congress, but maybe he meant to include from the customers.

[samiam1]

21 minutes ago, alc13 said:

 

The economy - local, state, national, global - needs support, and if holding on to our $$ keeps someone employed somewhere, we can be patient.

 

 

I prefer to give to actual charity not to for profit coporations and their shareholders who know the risks.  Here who  benefits from holding onto your money, you think they care about you or your family?

 

Top 10 Owners of Carnival Corp

Stockholder	Stake	Shares owned	Total value ($)	Shares bought / sold	Total change
Truist Bank (Private Banking)	7.34%	38,669,095	1,293,867,919	+38,477,792	+20,113.53%
Capital Research & Management Co....	7.26%	38,236,944	1,279,408,146	-8,032,204	-17.36%
The Vanguard Group, Inc.	6.11%	32,213,402	1,077,860,431	+1,818,047	+5.98%
PRIMECAP Management Co.	4.18%	22,016,482	736,671,488	-37,200	-0.17%
BlackRock Fund Advisors	3.48%	18,305,771	612,511,098	+752,148	+4.28%

 

[ellie1145]

3 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

 

I have a substantial amount over £20k awaiting refund. I'm lucky to have substantial savings so won't be hurt in any meaningful way if I either have to wait a year or so or it goes pear shaped and I don't get the money back.  Anyway  under lockdown,  my expenditure is significantly less than income and can't see us spending much for the next 6 months.

 

However many people are not in such a fortunate position.  Small businesses suddenly going in survival mode, families with reduced income but bills and mortgages to pay. The refund is needed to stop them spiralling into debt. After the economic shock of coronavirus many families and small business owners won't be contemplating holidays for quite a few years

 

If the choice is between small businesses and families versus Carnival then I think we'd all want the former to survive. The survival of Cunard cannot be by robbing customers. 

 

Just because we want refunds to be paid to consumers now doesn't mean we don't have a wider perspective,  but different priorities,  the survival of families is more important than next year's cruise or the cruise companies. 

Well said. 

[D&N]

1 hour ago, samiam1 said:

Top 10 Owners of Carnival Corp

Stockholder	Stake	Shares owned	Total value ($)	Shares bought / sold	Total change
Truist Bank (Private Banking)	7.34%	38,669,095	1,293,867,919	+38,477,792	+20,113.53%
Capital Research & Management Co....	7.26%	38,236,944	1,279,408,146	-8,032,204	-17.36%
The Vanguard Group, Inc.	6.11%	32,213,402	1,077,860,431	+1,818,047	+5.98%
PRIMECAP Management Co.	4.18%	22,016,482	736,671,488	-37,200	-0.17%
BlackRock Fund Advisors	3.48%	18,305,771	612,511,098	+752,148	+4.28%

 

I would be wary of being too critical of some of these shareholders. While their management remuneration is probably obscene, the funds invested in Carnival Corp and others may belong to client pension funds. If you think that these investments could be the pensions of a teacher or a nurse, the real investors may not have the deep pockets you imagine.

[Neuhoftraveler]

Truist Bank is the new name of what used to be two separate regional banks in the US, which merged last year(BBT and SunTrust).  Who its "private banking" clients are, I have no idea (I guess that's what makes it "private").  For the benefit of non-US readers, Vanguard and  PRIMECAP are US mutual funds, the investors in which primarily are individual retail investors via their retirement plans and IRA's.  Capital Research and Management is "investment adviser" to the American Funds line of mutual funds.  BlackRock also is "investment advisor" to a line of mutual funds, and appears to be related to one of wealthiest private equity firms in the US.

 

In other words, a mixed bag.

[alc13]

4 hours ago, samiam1 said:

 

I prefer to give to actual charity not to for profit coporations and their shareholders who know the risks.  Here who  benefits from holding onto your money, you think they care about you or your family?

 

None of have limitless funds, but charity vs employment relief is not an either/or choice.  I can support measures that allow employers to retain staff under the severe recessionary pressures they now face, and also give money to my local food bank.  Which I have.

 

Ed;  I should add that I vehemently object to corporate bailouts that exacerbate wealth and income inequality.  But Carnival besides being a large corporation is also a large employer.  To reiterate, if holding onto cruise payments allows them to stay solvent and thereby avoid massive layoffs, I will accept that reality.

Edited March 26, 2020 by alc13

[IB2]

13 hours ago, samiam1 said:

 

I prefer to give to actual charity not to for profit coporations and their shareholders who know the risks.  Here who  benefits from holding onto your money, you think they care about you or your family?

 

Top 10 Owners of Carnival Corp

Stockholder	Stake	Shares owned	Total value ($)	Shares bought / sold	Total change
Truist Bank (Private Banking)	7.34%	38,669,095	1,293,867,919	+38,477,792	+20,113.53%
Capital Research & Management Co....	7.26%	38,236,944	1,279,408,146	-8,032,204	-17.36%
The Vanguard Group, Inc.	6.11%	32,213,402	1,077,860,431	+1,818,047	+5.98%
PRIMECAP Management Co.	4.18%	22,016,482	736,671,488	-37,200	-0.17%
BlackRock Fund Advisors	3.48%	18,305,771	612,511,098	+752,148	+4.28%

 

You are missing the point; no-one is asking you to give money to the companies.

 

It is simply that the companies don't have enough cash flow to refund all their customers in cash right now.  Just as your bank doesn't have enough money for all its customers to withdraw it at once.

 

If people are patient about refunds or willing to accept future credit, the companies have a better chance of making it through to 2021 when hopefully cruising can resume, if with new restrictions.  If everyone wants their money right away, the companies may collapse and some people could lose their money (certainly future credits become worthless) or, at best, have a long wait while liquidators do their business and governments consider whether to step in.

[exlondoner]

10 hours ago, alc13 said:

None of have limitless funds, but charity vs employment relief is not an either/or choice.  I can support measures that allow employers to retain staff under the severe recessionary pressures they now face, and also give money to my local food bank.  Which I have.

 

Ed;  I should add that I vehemently object to corporate bailouts that exacerbate wealth and income inequality.  But Carnival besides being a large corporation is also a large employer.  To reiterate, if holding onto cruise payments allows them to stay solvent and thereby avoid massive layoffs, I will accept that reality.

 

And in the medium term, the purported measure, which applies to an entire business sector, not just Carnival, which appears to be hated by so many here, will make recovery quicker and easier.

[siforest65]

1 hour ago, exlondoner said:

 

And in the medium term, the purported measure, which applies to an entire business sector, not just Carnival, which appears to be hated by so many here, will make recovery quicker and easier.

I agree and working in the travel industry myself fully sympathise and would happily accept a fcc. What I don’t like though are the terms that Cunard are imposing that means I will be significantly worse off (lose $600 OBC from booking onboard straight away).