Ruby Princess arrival yesterday IMPORTANT

[Roberto256]

4 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

 The story about "raided" sounds dramatic. Apparently the Police arrived at the ship at 7pm by prior arrangement with the Captain.

 

That's funny.

 

Princess had days, if not weeks before going to Port Kembla.   If they cared to, anything could have been disposed of...

 

 

 

[resistk]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/australian-police-raid-cruise-ship-linked-to-600-coronavirus-cases-15-deaths

 

I suspect CCL is at least part to blame.  At any rate, their reputation in Australia is in the rubbish heap.  There should be a maritime court of inquest into all these Princess ships where COVID ran rampant.

[JRice]

On 4/7/2020 at 4:00 AM, Roberto256 said:

 

I don't know what the reason is, but with the number of princess ships involved, it has to be way more than bad luck.

 

Understanding the cause, I think, would make people more comfortable to return to cruising.

 

 

Carnival which included Princess and other brands  hauled 42% of the global cruise passengers last year and I assume this year too. This puts them at more risk than other cruise lines.  I would assume that the US and UK passengers and probably the Asian passenges on the Princess SE Asia and Japan itineraries are older than the general population. All of the data related to COVID 19 deaths show that over age 60 patients have a much higher death rate than under age 60.  Princess has been dealt a bad hand of cards in this situation.  

[DiamondFour]

11 hours ago, resistk said:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/australian-police-raid-cruise-ship-linked-to-600-coronavirus-cases-15-deaths

 

I suspect CCL is at least part to blame.  At any rate, their reputation in Australia is in the rubbish heap.  There should be a maritime court of inquest into all these Princess ships where COVID ran rampant.

I am Australian and most of us still love the ships and want them back. What we are seeing here is a massive government cover up to blame the cruise line for their mistakes.

 

Princess did everything by the law and declared sick passengers and asked for ambulances. Authorities were going to halt disembarkation and docking but were overruled after phone calls between Border Force and government departments.

 

Some media outlets are trying to help Princess.

 

The truth is a Federal Government MP had their in-laws as passengers on that ship. The daughter of the said passengers (married to the Federal MP) holds a office position in Australian Border Force.

 

The truth will come out eventually but our state government is embarrassed and running scared. This is going to cost political careers and even criminal charges against authorities once it gets out. At the moment as most parliament is suspended due to the virus nothing can be done but people will not forget and this will not go away. There is a lot of support for Princess here in Australia and people are slowly waking up to what has happened. There are some good media organisations reporting on it.

 

References: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/border-force-officer-was-worried-about-ruby-princess-covid-19-risk-to-workers/ar-BB12nQ4N?ocid=mailsignout

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-04/nsw-health-defends-ruby-princess-again-over-coronavirus-outbreak/12121512

 

The above articles detail what NSW Health Authorities knew about illness on board the ship. The ship declared everything it could and even provided swab samples for testing. It is our government that stuffed up, not Princess.

[Pushka]

11 hours ago, resistk said:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/australian-police-raid-cruise-ship-linked-to-600-coronavirus-cases-15-deaths

 

I suspect CCL is at least part to blame.  At any rate, their reputation in Australia is in the rubbish heap.  There should be a maritime court of inquest into all these Princess ships where COVID ran rampant.

 

There is a current criminal investigation happening in Australia about Ruby. 15 deaths, 600 positives amongst the passengers, likely well over 100 in the crew  Some here say it is a Government cover up, objectively I am going to wait for the results. But if it was a cover up, that is actually irrelevant to what happened prior to arrival in Sydney.

 

Regardless of whether the passengers should have been released without proper screening, those passengers would still likely have died and the 600 positive tests would still have occurred, simply because they went on a cruise on Ruby Princess. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

9 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

References: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/border-force-officer-was-worried-about-ruby-princess-covid-19-risk-to-workers/ar-BB12nQ4N?ocid=mailsignout

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-04/nsw-health-defends-ruby-princess-again-over-coronavirus-outbreak/12121512

 

The above articles detail what NSW Health Authorities knew about illness on board the ship. The ship declared everything it could and even provided swab samples for testing. It is our government that stuffed up, not Princess.

Thank you for posting these references. The articles make interesting reading.

[Pushka]

10 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

I am Australian and most of us still love the ships and want them back. What we are seeing here is a massive government cover up to blame the cruise line for their mistakes.

 

Princess did everything by the law and declared sick passengers and asked for ambulances. Authorities were going to halt disembarkation and docking but were overruled after phone calls between Border Force and government departments.

 

Some media outlets are trying to help Princess.

 

The truth is a Federal Government MP had their in-laws as passengers on that ship. The daughter of the said passengers (married to the Federal MP) holds a office position in Australian Border Force.

 

The truth will come out eventually but our state government is embarrassed and running scared. This is going to cost political careers and even criminal charges against authorities once it gets out. At the moment as most parliament is suspended due to the virus nothing can be done but people will not forget and this will not go away. There is a lot of support for Princess here in Australia and people are slowly waking up to what has happened. There are some good media organisations reporting on it.

 

References: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/border-force-officer-was-worried-about-ruby-princess-covid-19-risk-to-workers/ar-BB12nQ4N?ocid=mailsignout

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-04/nsw-health-defends-ruby-princess-again-over-coronavirus-outbreak/12121512

 

The above articles detail what NSW Health Authorities knew about illness on board the ship. The ship declared everything it could and even provided swab samples for testing. It is our government that stuffed up, not Princess.

 

 

Do you not understand that regardless of what the Port authorities did on arrival, those people developed the virus, and 15 people died just because they went on that cruise.

[Aus Traveller]

5 minutes ago, Pushka said:

 

Do you not understand that regardless of what the Port authorities did on arrival, those people developed the virus, and 15 people died just because they went on that cruise.

Sadly, we can't escape that fact. ☹️

 

However, the NSW government at first publicly blamed the Ruby Princess, even saying the Captain had lied. When the Premier received copies of emails between the ship and government authorities, she backed down, but after the blame-game continued between NSW Health and Border Force, she called for a full police investigation. We will see where it goes.

 

We wouldn't be having this discussion if the NSW authorities had let the matter lie rather than trying to pursue Princess.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Pushka]

Just now, Aus Traveller said:

Sadly, we can't escape that fact. ☹️However, the NSW government at first publicly blamed the Ruby Princess, even saying the Captain had lied. When the Premier received copies of emails between the ship and government authorities, she backed down, but after the blame-game continued between NSW Health and Border Force, she called for a full police investigation. We will see where it goes.

 

Yes, I agree, they did come out with that. But regardless of whether they had delayed disembarkation, the people would still have died.  I would like a proper examination of why that ship was so vulnerable when many other cruiselines may have carried the virus, but without the awful fatality rate.  

[Aus Traveller]

43 minutes ago, Pushka said:

 

Yes, I agree, they did come out with that. But regardless of whether they had delayed disembarkation, the people would still have died.  I would like a proper examination of why that ship was so vulnerable when many other cruiselines may have carried the virus, but without the awful fatality rate.  

Agreed. The only advantage of delaying the disembarkation would have been to put the passengers into quarantine thereby reducing the spread. There is no evidence that it would have prevented any deaths.

 

Why did the virus spread to much and why have so many died? One suggestion is the age of many of the passengers on the cruise. Princess attracts an older demographic than most other lines (except HAL) and cruises to NZ attract an older demographic than cruises to the islands. Maybe the older age group go to the shows and indoor activities more than younger people who are more inclined to hang out around and in the pool. Of course, the weather on a NZ cruise in March is such that the person has to be keen to spend much time in the pool - therefore more indoor activities. Another suggestion is the design of the Princess ships where people tend to congregate in the atrium for many activities.

 

PS Another reason there would have been older people on board, is that the cruise was not during school holidays. There would have been very few families on board.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[DiamondFour]

50 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Thank you for posting these references. The articles make interesting reading.

It does particularly when both news companies appeal to opposite sides of the political debate. It reinforces the need for an investigation into this that is above the NSW police force.

 

Besides Shine Lawyers announced on the news that they were progressing fast with a view to possibly including NSW government departments in their lawsuit.

 

The truth will come out soon enough.

[DiamondFour]

5 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Agreed. The only advantage of delaying the disembarkation would have been to put the passengers into quarantine thereby reducing the spread. There is no evidence that it would have prevented any deaths.

 

Why did the virus spread to much and why have so many died? One suggestion is the age of many of the passengers on the cruise. Princess attracts an older demographic than most other lines (except HAL) and cruises to NZ attract an older demographic than cruises to the islands. Maybe the older age group go to the shows and indoor activities more than younger people who are more inclined to hang out around and in the pool. Of course, the weather on a NZ cruise in March is such that the person has to be keen to spend much time in the pool - therefore more indoor activities. Another suggestion is the design of the Princess ships where people tend to congregate in the atrium for many activities.

 

They would have died regardless. It is nothing to do with the ship or design. That is why all pubs and clubs are shut down. The virus is airborne and as we inhale and breath out those who have the virus are breathing out the virus in their breath which can stay stationary in the air or float through the air current much like how you can smell smoke far away or cigarette breath or alcohol on someones breath or the smell of cooking from a distance. It can be in the air for up to 2 minutes or longer. All you have to do is walk into it and breath in or get it in your eyes and you have the virus in an instant.

 

Chances are international guests who came either from Europe or America flew into Australia with it (perhaps caught it in their travels) boarded the ship and the rest is history. 

 

The Ruby Princess is an innocent victim in all of this just like the dead.

[Pushka]

10 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Another suggestion is the design of the Princess ships where people tend to congregate in the atrium for many activities.

 

I think that this is very important. Is Ruby a sister ship to Diamond and the other ships that have been similarly affected?  Something to be assessed for the future.

 

About the age, sadly one of the SA women who died was aged 62. Younger than me with no comorbidities other than the usual age stuff.  But I agree the other passengers range from high sixties to I think late '80s.

 

 

[Pushka]

5 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

It is nothing to do with the ship or design. 

 

 

Unable to state that with any credibility. There is something happening onboard Princess ships that is over-represented in this pandemic. And if Princess is to restore any public confidence they will need to demonstrate a review as to the safety of their ships.  No other cruise line has been impacted like Princess has and everyone will remember that brand. 

[bluesea321]

5 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Unable to state that with any credibility. There is something happening onboard Princess ships that is over-represented in this pandemic. And if Princess is to restore any public confidence they will need to demonstrate a review as to the safety of their ships.  No other cruise line has been impacted like Princess has and everyone will remember that brand. 

 

Please look at the new order from the US CDC today (see new thread).  It is quite damning of the industry and imposes strict requirements for ships to remain in US ports/waters.  You guys down under are not alone on this.

[BRANDEE]

2 hours ago, Pushka said:

 

 

Do you not understand that regardless of what the Port authorities did on arrival, those people developed the virus, and 15 people died just because they went on that cruise.

Why hasn't the NSW Health Ministry contacted international passengers to get a real number?  They have our information.  They have not followed through.. after two initial e mails with a yes or no answer. Or the deaths of anyone other than an Aussie acceptable by the NSW Health Department? Didn't care when we were on the ship and don't care now...like I felt on the morning of Mar 19..get out of my country. now!

[Pushka]

13 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

Why hasn't the NSW Health Ministry contacted international passengers to get a real number?  They have our information.  They have not followed through.. after two initial e mails with a yes or no answer. Or the deaths of anyone other than an Aussie acceptable by the NSW Health Department? Didn't care when we were on the ship and don't care now...like I felt on the morning of Mar 19..get out of my country. now!

 

But NSW Health did send emails to international passengers warning of the situation. And on the other thread, a poster deleted them without even bothering to read them.
 

Of course they care, but I'm not sure how they could find out the results, and nor could they insist on people being tested when as you mentioned earlier your husband wasn't allowed to have a test in the USA. And there would be no compulsion on you nor NSW in sending back the test results. The only thing that NSW can use is known statistics. 

[BRANDEE]

Just now, Pushka said:

 

But NSW Health did send emails to international passengers warning of the situation. And on the other thread, a poster deleted them without even bothering to read them.
 

Of course they care, but I'm not sure how they could find out the results, and nor could they insist on people being tested when as you mentioned earlier your husband wasn't allowed to have a test in the USA. And there would be no compulsion on you nor NSW in sending back the test results. The only thing that NSW can use is known statistics. 

But why bother asking in an e mail and then not bother to follow up?  15 dead could be half the true number.  600 infected??  Obviously small numbers compared to the 799 who died today in NY  I still wonder if the NSW Health Department wanted to know..certainly more information could have been asked. It was just dropped.   Anyway, one dead is one too many!  Stay safe and healthy my friend...recovery is extremely slow, but it is recovery!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pushka]

3 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

But why bother asking in an e mail and then not bother to follow up?  15 dead could be half the true number.  600 infected??  Obviously small numbers compared to the 799 who died today in NY  I still wonder if the NSW Health Department wanted to know..certainly more information could have been asked. It was just dropped.   Anyway, one dead is one too many!  Stay safe and healthy my friend...recovery is extremely slow, but it is recovery!

Im sure they would like to know but have absolutely no way to get the Official information. I agree, I suspect the toll must be much higher if  overseas data could be obtained. 
 

Best wishes for your continued recovery. 

[Pushka]

25 minutes ago, Geoffa30 said:

When you say ‘so cruises must stop’, do you mean indefinitely or just until the pandemic abates?

Until the pandemic is over. I'm not sure that will be in the immediate future though 😞

[Roberto256]

14 hours ago, JRice said:

Carnival which included Princess and other brands  hauled 42% of the global cruise passengers last year and I assume this year too. This puts them at more risk than other cruise lines.

 

My comments were in regard to Princess Cruises.

 

That Carnival Corp owns many brands and ships doesn't matter; it is Princess Cruises that seems to have

a large number of ships affected.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Roberto256

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/people-just-didnt-care-how-the-ruby-princess-cruise-ship-became-a-death-trap/2020/04/10/058ab45e-7a33-11ea-a311-adb1344719a9_story.

 

There will surely be some mass-market cruise industry left in 2021. But nothing at all like what existed before the coronavirus.

 

The Ruby is just part of the legal (and ensuing regulatory) crises for the cruise lines 

[DaveSJ711]

This article appeared in today's Washington Post.  Note the use of the word "deathtrap."

 

How does Princess respond to stories like this one?  Indeed, how does the entire cruise industry respond?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/people-just-didnt-care-how-the-ruby-princess-cruise-ship-became-a-death-trap/2020/04/10/058ab45e-7a33-11ea-a311-adb1344719a9_story.html

[Aquahound]

4 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

 

My comments were in regard to Princess Cruises.

 

That Carnival Corp owns many brands and ships doesn't matter; it is Princess Cruises that seems to have

a large number of ships affected.

 

Agreed.  It certainly does make one raise an eyebrow that so many Princess ships are wrapped up in this mess.  But on the larger scale, it also makes one raise an eyebrow that Carnival Corp is disproportionately impacted as well.  I have to think that is more than just mere coincidence.  The question is; why?

[resistk]

I have been on close to 50 cruises, no way I am getting on another anytime soon.  But I would be particularly wary of Princess, Costa, MSC, and Holland America.  RCL and Norwegian seem to have escaped relatively unscatched while MSC and CCL are in it up to their necks.

Edited April 10, 2020 by resistk