Ruby Princess arrival yesterday IMPORTANT

[DiamondFour]

Its not just Princess caught up in it. There are a number of factors that come into play such as where the passengers come from and where the virus path struck the world first. One may also ask why Northern Italy, New York, London are all major clusters. I could say I will never visit New York ever in my life, it is dangerous and a death trap. Of course this is not true because New York is just an unlucky place where many chinese people took their virus.

 

For interesting reading which further cements the corruption and negligence of NSW government authorities then the following article is worth reading about a Royal Caribbean ship with conformed cases of the virus on board given clearance to dock and disembark in Sydney the day before Ruby Princess did.

 

 https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/how-another-cruise-ship-was-able-to-dock-in-australia-with-sick-passengers-onboard-who-were-then-allowed-to-leave-without-being-checked-for-deadly-coronavirus-in-eerie-similarity-to-the-ruby-princess-debacle/ar-BB12rpOl?li=AAgfLCP&ocid=mailsignout

[DaveSJ711]

5 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

Its not just Princess caught up in it. There are a number of factors that come into play such as where the passengers come from and where the virus path struck the world first. One may also ask why Northern Italy, New York, London are all major clusters. I could say I will never visit New York ever in my life, it is dangerous and a death trap. Of course this is not true because New York is just an unlucky place where many chinese people took their virus.

 

 

Most New York cases came from Europe, not China.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/science/new-york-coronavirus-cases-europe-genomes.html

[Pushka]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/10/ruby-princess-battle-begins-to-hold-someone-accountable-for-cruise-ship-coronavirus-debacle

 

I trust sensible people will wait for the outcome of the criminal investigation by NSW police before labelling anyone or any organisation corrupt. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Pushka

[Aus Traveller]

7 hours ago, DaveSJ711 said:

This article appeared in today's Washington Post.  Note the use of the word "deathtrap."

How does Princess respond to stories like this one?  Indeed, how does the entire cruise industry respond?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/people-just-didnt-care-how-the-ruby-princess-cruise-ship-became-a-death-trap/2020/04/10/058ab45e-7a33-11ea-a311-adb1344719a9_story.html

I can't access the Washington Post article without subscribing. I don't want to do that to read just one article. 🙂

[Aus Traveller]

6 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Agreed.  It certainly does make one raise an eyebrow that so many Princess ships are wrapped up in this mess.  But on the larger scale, it also makes one raise an eyebrow that Carnival Corp is disproportionately impacted as well.  I have to think that is more than just mere coincidence.  The question is; why?

Could it be partly because of the average age of Princess cruisers?

[bluesea321]

7 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I can't access the Washington Post article without subscribing. I don't want to do that to read just one article. 🙂

 

You can register and get a limited number of monthly articles for free.

[le chat]

I come from Western Australia where unfortunately most of our cases in hospitals are as a result of cruise ships. (And as an interesting fact our State Premier is an ex Navy lawyer). 
 

What people are ignoring is the fact that everyone who boarded that ship did so fully aware that a virus was sweeping the world and knowing that the travel advice was “do not travel”. They interviewed people boarding on the news at the time & they didn’t care. People still boarded another ship after that. We are all paying the price over here for travellers’ selfishness, basically.

The recent Washington Post article was the first I have seen where they actually posted a comment from a passenger who admits they boarded regardless. 

So yes - there is a lot of blame - but how many people on these forums are still considering boarding cruises in May, as if all will just suddenly be fine then? Quite a few, I can tell you. We had two very expensive (not Princess) cruises booked - one for May & one for Feb 2021,so have been monitoring the pandemic since January. We were able to get a future credit for the May cruise to use end of 2021 instead but would have been willing to sacrifice the $10000+ if not, rather than sail during a pandemic. 
 

For those cruisers it was “ your money or your life” - they chose badly. 
 

[Pushka]

1 minute ago, le chat said:

come from Western Australia where unfortunately most of our cases in hospitals are as a result of cruise ships. (And as an interesting fact our State Premier is an ex Navy lawyer). 

Ditto from South Australia. However the cruise lines should have cancelled. Period. 

[bluesea321]

57 minutes ago, le chat said:

I come from Western Australia where unfortunately most of our cases in hospitals are as a result of cruise ships.

 

55 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Ditto from South Australia. However the cruise lines should have cancelled. Period. 

 

Below is the CLIA's response to the new US CDC order.  I wonder what the Australian authorities would think of this.  

https://cruising.org/news-and-research/press-room/2020/april/clia-statement-regarding-no-sail-order

[resistk]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

Ditto from South Australia. However the cruise lines should have cancelled. Period. 

 

Australians (passengers and cruise lines) have shown tremendously bad judgment, what about the poor souls who embarked on the Greg Mortimer March 15?

 

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/half-antarctic-cruise-passengers-greg-mortimer-coronavirus

 

 

 

[resistk]

3 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

 

Below is the CLIA's response to the new US CDC order.  I wonder what the Australian authorities would think of this.  

https://cruising.org/news-and-research/press-room/2020/april/clia-statement-regarding-no-sail-order

 

CLIA seemingly cares about your money not your life.  Tone deaf.  Cruise ships have indeed been a source of spreading COVID and for CLIA to claim otherwise undermines any credibility they have.

[Cindy]

 
Agreed.  It certainly does make one raise an eyebrow that so many Princess ships are wrapped up in this mess.  But on the larger scale, it also makes one raise an eyebrow that Carnival Corp is disproportionately impacted as well.  I have to think that is more than just mere coincidence.  The question is; why?

I think that’s a valid question. My first thought when all this started was that the Princess infections were a function of location and bad luck. It made sense to me that the Diamond and the Grand were both in locations that put them at higher risk than others for an outbreak.

With the passage of time I’ve started to wonder what other factors might be in play. If Princess is doing something different that’s contributing to the severity of their outbreaks, it’s in everybody’s best interests to find out what that is and correct it.


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[vettprincess]

1 hour ago, le chat said:

I come from Western Australia where unfortunately most of our cases in hospitals are as a result of cruise ships. (And as an interesting fact our State Premier is an ex Navy lawyer). 
 

What people are ignoring is the fact that everyone who boarded that ship did so fully aware that a virus was sweeping the world and knowing that the travel advice was “do not travel”. They interviewed people boarding on the news at the time & they didn’t care. People still boarded another ship after that. We are all paying the price over here for travellers’ selfishness, basically.

The recent Washington Post article was the first I have seen where they actually posted a comment from a passenger who admits they boarded regardless. 

So yes - there is a lot of blame - but how many people on these forums are still considering boarding cruises in May, as if all will just suddenly be fine then? Quite a few, I can tell you. We had two very expensive (not Princess) cruises booked - one for May & one for Feb 2021,so have been monitoring the pandemic since January. We were able to get a future credit for the May cruise to use end of 2021 instead but would have been willing to sacrifice the $10000+ if not, rather than sail during a pandemic. 
 

For those cruisers it was “ your money or your life” - they chose badly. 
 

Well said. After 48 yrs of cruising have seen sick people and well people ignore the warnings. 

[Pushka]

27 minutes ago, resistk said:

 

Australians (passengers and cruise lines) have shown tremendously bad judgment, what about the poor souls who embarked on the Greg Mortimer March 15?

 

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/half-antarctic-cruise-passengers-greg-mortimer-coronavirus

 

 

 

The Ruby Princess issue was thought to be brought onboard by either UK or USA people who had flown in for the cruise. I thought about 30-40% werent Australian citizens. The pandemic hadn’t actually reached us much before Ruby. 

[bluesea321]

27 minutes ago, resistk said:

CLIA seemingly cares about your money not your life.  Tone deaf.  Cruise ships have indeed been a source of spreading COVID and for CLIA to claim otherwise undermines any credibility they have.

 

I knew the CLIA's response would be PR oriented but I was surprised to see them focus on the economic impact instead of the health and safety impact of all involved.

[le chat]

9 minutes ago, vettprincess said:

Well said. After 48 yrs of cruising have seen sick people and well people ignore the warnings. 

In addition, on the Artania, when anchored off our coast AFTER all passengers had been informed that a passenger had tested positive for COVID, passengers could be seen tanning in the sun and gathering on decks with blatant disregard for our social distancing rules.

They had been given the opportunity to take free flights back on March 16 and 198 did so. About 900 chose not to and the consequences were our state had to pay for them to be housed and fed in hotels until the 14 day quarantine period was over. 844 healthy passengers were taken to the airport and airlifted on special chartered flights through the night to Phuket then Germany. At the time our country had already closed our borders.
More than 60 cases were recorded from this vessel alone. Sick passengers were treated in our hospitals and received the same quality of care our citizens do. Our hospitals do not turn patients away.

More examples of pleasure seeking before your own health. The 198 who chose to take the opportunity to leave when they did are to be commended. In this case, the line made an offer but most refused it. 

[le chat]

11 minutes ago, Pushka said:

The Ruby Princess issue was thought to be brought onboard by either UK or USA people who had flown in for the cruise. I thought about 30-40% werent Australian citizens. The pandemic hadn’t actually reached us much before Ruby. 

Pushes, in February the Diamond Princess disaster off Japan had been on the news for ages in Australia so anyone who boarded the Ruby did so knowingly. 

[le chat]

49 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

 

Below is the CLIA's response to the new US CDC order.  I wonder what the Australian authorities would think of this.  

https://cruising.org/news-and-research/press-room/2020/april/clia-statement-regarding-no-sail-order

I am not sure what you mean by Australian authorities. Our state is run by an ex Navy Lawyer who knows international maritime law.

Our countrymen have lost tens of thousands of jobs and our government has unblinkingly paid out billions in welfare to those who have lost jobs. This has been done by creating new categories so the people (eg airline staff) who would usually be employed do not have to go through the same welfare channels as the long term or unskilled unemployed.

Because of the increase in online grocery deliveries, our major supermarket chains advertised thousands of new jobs with preference given to those recently unemployed in the airline and tourism industries.

In addition, there are thousands of backpackers and international students stranded here because international borders have closed. They will be assisted. All our hospitals are open to anyone who is ill and we have a universal health care system. Testing is available to all now who display signs of fever.

Any cruise ship crew member or passenger who disembarked ill here was taken to the same hospitals to get the same care as any other citizen. Hundreds of passengers were housed and fed free in city hotels until they could be airlifted out. This kept the hotels open and staff employed. Some of those are international hotel chains, but we have saved local jobs.

Our government has displayed empathy and social responsibility for all who enter our country. They have certainly been active in supporting the recently unemployed.... hmmm?

[le chat]

1 hour ago, resistk said:

 

Australians (passengers and cruise lines) have shown tremendously bad judgment, what about the poor souls who embarked on the Greg Mortimer March 15?

 

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/half-antarctic-cruise-passengers-greg-mortimer-coronavirus

 

 

 

 
our all Australian lines have plans in place

https://www.coralexpeditions.com/au/travel-update/ 

And

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/artania-passengers-claim-gross-negligence-as-cruise-operators-dodge-questions-20200406-p54hbv.html

And

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e3.htm

 

And
https://www.kusi.com/celebrity-eclipse-cruise-ship-covid-19-cases-spread-globally/

 

and lastly

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/09/revealed-6000-passengers-on-cruise-ships-at-sea-despite-coronavirus-crisis
 

and for those of us who have loved cruising - spare a thought for this sobering fact - over 90000 crew still on ships... at least if sick here, they are taken to our hospitals and given the same treatment accorded anyone. 
 

How about some postings in support of those lovely people who work so hard for so little and now find themselves stuck on infected ships far away from their families through no fault of their own. God bless them wherever they are. 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/90000-cruise-ship-crew-members-stuck-sea-amid/story%3fid=70057005

over and out...

 

 

[Pushka]

1 hour ago, le chat said:

Pushes, in February the Diamond Princess disaster off Japan had been on the news for ages in Australia so anyone who boarded the Ruby did so knowingly. 

Yes. As did Princess. Yet Carnival refused to cancel. 

[Pushka]

5 minutes ago, le chat said:

 

How about some postings in support of those lovely people who work so hard for so little and now find themselves stuck on infected ships far away from their families through no fault of their own. God bless them wherever they are. 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/90000-cruise-ship-crew-members-stuck-sea-amid/story%3fid=70057005

over and out...

 

 

There is good news. Yesterday there were significant ship movements across the Bight for many cruise ships. They are travelling up north, to take their crew to their homelands in The Phillipines and Indonesia. Viking Orion was also one of the ships involved. 

[DiamondFour]

3 hours ago, Pushka said:

Ditto from South Australia. However the cruise lines should have cancelled. Period. 

But from when???

 

The WHO sat on their hands with this for a long time and did nothing at all. On the 8th March when Ruby Princess departed Sydney there were only 83 known cases of the virus in Australia. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/ There were only 278 known cases in the UK https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ and there were only 541 known cases in the USA https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

The Ruby Princess departed on the 8th March. The WHO declared a pandemic on the 11th March. It was far too late. With such low numbers known around the world it was like 0.00025% of total populations the risk was considered low.

 

What was a cruise line to do when even then governments were not taking it seriously. Either the WHO and worldwide governments stuffed up big time in their response or china simply lied about the timeline of this nasty virus and allowed too many people to leave wuhan before the lock down to multiple places all around the world while mysteriously these 5 million or so people who departed worldwide and infected the world, not one apparently travelled domestically in china infecting the rest of mainland china. Either china is a terrible liar and deceived governments or the WHO and other governments did not take it seriously.

 

Hindsight is a good thing. Companies can only work with what information they had at the time. It is all well and good to say it should have been cancelled but when you go back in time and look at the information available in the past at the 8th March it becomes clear that there was not enough information to justify a worldwide shut down. 

[Aus Traveller]

24 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

But from when???

 

The WHO sat on their hands with this for a long time and did nothing at all. On the 8th March when Ruby Princess departed Sydney there were only 83 known cases of the virus in Australia. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/ There were only 278 known cases in the UK https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ and there were only 541 known cases in the USA https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

The Ruby Princess departed on the 8th March. The WHO declared a pandemic on the 11th March. It was far too late. With such low numbers known around the world it was like 0.00025% of total populations the risk was considered low.

 

What was a cruise line to do when even then governments were not taking it seriously. Either the WHO and worldwide governments stuffed up big time in their response or china simply lied about the timeline of this nasty virus and allowed too many people to leave wuhan before the lock down to multiple places all around the world while mysteriously these 5 million or so people who departed worldwide and infected the world, not one apparently travelled domestically in china infecting the rest of mainland china. Either china is a terrible liar and deceived governments or the WHO and other governments did not take it seriously.

 

Hindsight is a good thing. Companies can only work with what information they had at the time. It is all well and good to say it should have been cancelled but when you go back in time and look at the information available in the past at the 8th March it becomes clear that there was not enough information to justify a worldwide shut down. 

I agree with your comments. We were on a cruise from 23rd Feb to 8th March. Before we left we were aware of COVID-19, but it was pretty-well limited to Asia, particularly China. We felt we weren't at risk on an Aust-NZ cruise.

 

While we were on board, Princess started selling cruises on the Sapphire Princess that they relocated from Asia to Australia. The cruises were over the next six or so months and demand was so great, that the Princess website crashed from too many people trying to book. My husband suggested that we shouldn't book, because we didn't know what was going to happen with the coronavirus in several months' time. I thought he was being overly cautious, but agreed. This was in the first few days of March. No-one we spoke to, nor ourselves, even considered that Princess would be announcing a pause of its cruises a week or so later (12th March). I mention this to demonstrate how quickly the COVID situation developed.

 

I wouldn't criticize people who went on a cruise on 8th March, even on the Ruby Princess. The Sea Princess left the same day and had no infections.

[caribill]

ignore this post

[Thecat123]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

I wouldn't criticize people who went on a cruise on 8th March, even on the Ruby Princess. The Sea Princess left the same day and had no infections.

 

We left Sydney on the 8th March pretty unaware about the virus as well on Seabourns Encore which had come from NZ with no issues. Seabourn were asking a lot of questions from where the passengers had come from not allowing passengers who had come from some countries  to board.  I actually put down a future cruise deposit down on the ship the day before it was announced that all cruises were going to be stopped. Our cruise was cut short about half way through at Adelaide instead of Sydney with Seabourn being very good about changing out flights back to NZ for us   Now  later knowing what we know now  it could have been a toss up if we went on a cruise anywhere but we got back to NZ going straight into our 14 day self quarantine which then changed to our 4 week lock down. Maybe going on smaller size ships, I think we had 540 passengers is an advantage

Edited April 11, 2020 by Thecat123