Ruby Princess arrival yesterday IMPORTANT

[Aus Traveller]

2 minutes ago, Te Aroha said:

Think what you will about politicians that is not what the problem is here. Under reporting of health issues on board the ship is the issue not politics. 

It isn't really 'politics' it is the public servants not telling the Minister everything.

[Pushka]

I believe, in the current pandemic, that if just one person had respiratory illness, and tested negative for flu, then that is enough to raise a "hold embarkation" flag. So the facts around that information/decision making, need to be ascertained and evaluated. Anything less is a failure on someone's part. 

[rickays]

4 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Firstly, 104 people is not one-third of the Aussie pax. Out of the 2647 passengers probably half would have been Australian, 20% or so from USA and 20% or so from UK, and some from other countries. That was the break-up on our cruise two weeks earlier. The ill people would have been from any of those countries. So we had a total of 104 out of 4,795. I have been on cruises where I reckon there has been a higher percentage than that of people with coughs, colds etc.

 

You would have read that the pax who were taken to hospital were because of a heart condition and the second one because of lower back pain, both believed to be related to the flu.

 

The Health Dept report said:

The Ruby Princess had 2647 passengers and 1148 crew. The ship reported to NSW Health there were 104 acute respiratory infections of which 36 people had presented to the ship’s clinic with influenza like illness during the cruise and its numbers fell short of the definition of an ‘outbreak’.

 

You commented that only 36 people presented themselves to the medical centre with the implication that maybe the other 68 didn't. I don't agree. If they didn't go to the medical centre, how did the medical centre know they had "acute respiratory infections"? I feel that the quoted paragraph could mean that 36 people had influenza like illness and the other 68 had acute respiratory infections that did not resemble the flu. (BTW, I have had bronchitis several times and pneumonia twice: none have been flu-like symptoms.)

I seem to remember reading somewhere, possible from a report from someone onboard, that a questionnaire had been sent to passengers to report any respiratory symptoms.  The 68 extra could have reported by this method and not actually gone to the medical centre - thats from the ones that replied honestly.

[Te Aroha]

2 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

It isn't really 'politics' it is the public servants not telling the Minister everything.

We are not the same political system as is elsewhere in the world, you are also accusing ministers here of lying or of withholding information but you will not accept that possibly Ruby Princess staff (Medical Officer /Captain) did the same? Deflecting this into a political argument is wrong as I stated this is not about politics it is about under reporting of health issues on board the ship. 

[HappyInVan]

38 minutes ago, Pushka said:

 

If however, Princess said all respiratory cases tested positive for Influenza (and that wasnt the case at all) then well, trouble for Princess and not for Health.

 

Good insight

[Aus Traveller]

2 minutes ago, Te Aroha said:

We are not the same political system as is elsewhere in the world, you are also accusing ministers here of lying or of withholding information but you will not accept that possibly Ruby Princess staff (Medical Officer /Captain) did the same? Deflecting this into a political argument is wrong as I stated this is not about politics it is about under reporting of health issues on board the ship. 

I am not accusing the Ministers of lying. I am saying the same thing might have happened in NZ as appeared to happen here. The NSW Health Minister said the Captain of the ship had lied, but when the emails were revealed, suddenly he went quiet. One TV reporter challenged him to resign. However, the Minister was simply repeating what he had been told. That is what I mean - public servants protecting their jobs by not admitting how they had 'stuffed up'.

[Te Aroha]

1 minute ago, Aus Traveller said:

I am not accusing the Ministers of lying. I am saying the same thing might have happened in NZ as appeared to happen here. The NSW Health Minister said the Captain of the ship had lied, but when the emails were revealed, suddenly he went quiet. One TV reporter challenged him to resign. However, the Minister was simply repeating what he had been told. That is what I mean - public servants protecting their jobs by not admitting how they had 'stuffed up'.

So do you know for a fact that the correct health information was given to authorities on docking of the Ruby Princess in Napier? We sure don't know that for a fact here and that is why legal advice is being sort. Under reporting of health issues is the issue here nothing else.

[Pushka]

44 minutes ago, Te Aroha said:

So do you know for a fact that the correct health information was given to authorities on docking of the Ruby Princess in Napier? We sure don't know that for a fact here and that is why legal advice is being sort. Under reporting of health issues is the issue here nothing else.

Agree mostly but if there was a failure within Health (Australia) to properly act on the information they were provided with (let's assume it was all correct and completely unambiguous) then that is also important.  

 

Another death from Ruby just now. 14.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Pushka

[DiamondFour]

5 hours ago, Pushka said:

 

But they did freakin have it so my theory would have been proven correct! 

 

WT does HIV have to do with any of this? We are talking about a respiratory virus. Everyone breathes. 

 

The cruiseline cannot state that there was no Covid onboard because they did not have the means in which to test for that. All they can state, and what they should have stated, is that there was X number of passengers onboard who have respiratory symptoms (they may add "that have not been tested for Covid" - although that would likely be assumed) If thats what they did in fact state then they are in the clear.

Going by that statement you cannot declare you are free of bubonic plague as you have not been tested for it.

 

They did not have the test kits for the virus from china. That is the main issue here. They had some test positive for influenza in the cruise prior. You cannot lie on official documents or to governments. 

 

Perhaps infection unknown should be an option rather than hit the panic button.

[Aus Traveller]

4 hours ago, Pushka said:

Absolutely, unless there was a downplay of actual illnesses as reported by the ship. They can test for Influenza onboard I believe; if that is the case, and Princess said (by example) 100 of 200 passengers tested positive for Influenza and 100 didnt test positive for Influenza but showed influenza symptoms, then they needed to wait for COvid. If Health allowed them to disembark anyway, then trouble for Health.

 

If however, Princess said all respiratory cases tested positive for Influenza (and that wasnt the case at all) then well, trouble for Princess and not for Health.

In the item I read yesterday (after NSW Health cleared the ship to dock) Princess reported to Sydney Ports that they "did not believe they had COVID on board".

 

You ask the question whether Princess said all respiratory cases tested positive for influenze (and that wasn't the case at all)... Here is a quote from the NSW Health Department report:

 

This is reflected in email correspondence between NSW Health and the ship’s doctor on the Ruby Princess who confirmed influenza was circulating on the cruise. However, in two sick patients referenced in the email, although they had tested negative to influenza, the cause of their respiratory infection was consistent with influenza for which they were receiving treatment.

 

I agree with your comment that they needed to wait for COVID tests to be completed.

[Pushka]

8 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

In the item I read yesterday (after NSW Health cleared the ship to dock) Princess reported to Sydney Ports that they "did not believe they had COVID on board".

 

You ask the question whether Princess said all respiratory cases tested positive for influenze (and that wasn't the case at all)... Here is a quote from the NSW Health Department report:

 

This is reflected in email correspondence between NSW Health and the ship’s doctor on the Ruby Princess who confirmed influenza was circulating on the cruise. However, in two sick patients referenced in the email, although they had tested negative to influenza, the cause of their respiratory infection was consistent with influenza for which they were receiving treatment.

 

I agree with your comment that they needed to wait for COVID tests to be completed.

In hindsight it all seems so simple doesn't it. Given that the tests had already been done, then, well, I shakes me head. 
 

We are starting to report community spread in SA from Ruby. We are not out of the woods yet. And then there is the taxi driver who tested positive after driving a Ruby passenger in Sydney who was really ill with it. 

[Roberto256]

8 hours ago, Pushka said:

And whether some like it or not, Princess has been far in advance, the one cruiseline that has had more illness and deaths than any other cruiseline. If Princess/Carnival do not address that, determine why, well, no more Princess ships for me.

 

I don't know what the reason is, but with the number of princess ships involved, it has to be way more than bad luck.

 

Understanding the cause, I think, would make people more comfortable to return to cruising.

 

 

[Pushka]

26 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

Going by that statement you cannot declare you are free of bubonic plague as you have not been tested for it.

 

They did not have the test kits for the virus from china. That is the main issue here. They had some test positive for influenza in the cruise prior. You cannot lie on official documents or to governments. 

 

Perhaps infection unknown should be an option rather than hit the panic button.

Im sorry. I cannot respond with any sincerity to your posts anymore. Best wishes. 

[leck57]

I know it's giving people things to write about during lockdown, but how about we do something radical and just wait for the facts to come out, rather than just pointless speculation.

[voljeep]

guess all Aussies / Kiwis are not Crocodile Dundee … 

 

[HappyInVan]

4 hours ago, leck57 said:

I know it's giving people things to write about during lockdown, but how about we do something radical and just wait for the facts to come out, rather than just pointless speculation.

 

 

There's an attempt by a couple of posters to blame everything on NSW Health. The fact that NSW is willing to have a criminal investigation suggests that they are confident that they will be cleared.

[Roberto256]

27 minutes ago, voljeep said:

guess all Aussies / Kiwis are not Crocodile Dundee … 

 

But, even crocodile dundee wasn't crocodile dundee.

 

There was a scene where Mic starts shaving with a machette...

When Sue looks away, he pulls a safety razor out of his belt.

 

[DiamondFour]

10 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

There's an attempt by a couple of posters to blame everything on NSW Health. The fact that NSW is willing to have a criminal investigation suggests that they are confident that they will be cleared.

NSW Health is not under investigation by the NSW police. That is certainly corruption at the most high level. Hindsight is a good thing. 

 

Looking at a brochure I have pulled out that fortunately did not throw out:

 

Ruby Princess Departures from Sydney

2nd November 2019 - Tasmania - 6 nights

8th November 2019 - Fiji - 14 nights

22nd November 2019 - New Zealand - 14 nights

5th December 2019 - New Caledonia/Vanuatu - 8 nights

13th December 2019 - New Zealand - 14 nights

30th December 2019 - New Zealand - 14 nights

13th January 2020 - Fiji - 14 nights

27th January 2020 - New Zealand - 14 nights

*1

11th February 2020 - New Zealand - 13 nights

24th February 2020 - New Zealand - 13 nights (22 virus from china cases in Australia)

*2

8th March 2020 - New Zealand - 13 nights. (83 virus from china cases in Australia)

*3

 

Restrictions timeline

*1) 1st February 2020 - Government announces no entry to Australia for any foreign national who has transited through mainland china.

*1) 6th February 2020 - china admits death toll has exceeded 500.

*1) 17th February 2020 - cases hit 70,000 world wide.

*1) 19th February 2020 - South Korea, Iran and Italy emerge as hot spots.

*2) 29th February 2020 - Australia activates its emergency plan.

*3) 11th March 2020 - WHO declares a world wide pandemic.

*3) 12th March 2020 - Princess announces global pause.

*3) 14th March 2020 - Lockdowns appear in Europe and US declares a national emergency. 

 

So far from the above cruises there have been no confirmed cases from any passenger on the 24th February sailing of the virus that originated from china. There are confirmed influenza cases at that date and it was declared to the health authorities.

 

Also bear in mind that we had recently seen what happened with the Diamond Princess. If the ships Doctor (a highly trained and professional medical expert) and the ships Captain had even a inkling of a suspicion that the virus from china was on their ship, do you honestly think that in their right minds that they would embark on a potential suicide voyage that could result in their deaths? No Doctor would ever do that. During the height of the AIDS period would you pick up and play with a syringe that was just used by an AIDS infected person. No way. There is no way come hell or high water that any ships Captain or Doctor would want to put to sea with that virus on their ship.

 

The timeline lays everything bare. There were no cases of the virus from china ever confirmed on the 24th February sailing. It had to have been brought on by an international passenger on the 8th March sailing that made it through our borders. Princess then declared before returning to Sydney on its last cruise that they had passengers who had severe respiratory symptoms who have tested negative to influenza. Our government is corrupt, incompetent and has blood on its hands. I voted for them and I am devastated and regret I did vote for them. Now they have ordered their corrupt police force to investigate the cruise line only and not to investigate any government department. Words fail me.

[Pushka]

Another Ruby Princess death today, a 62 year old woman from SA.  Much too young and that is scary. 

 

I dont think 15 (I think?) deaths (so far) makes Aussies whingers. Would anyone of rational mind think so? 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Pushka

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

By Feb 28, anyone staying up with the mainstream media (no, not Fox or Rupert's propaganda sheets) knew this was going to be seriously bad.

 

The annual Housewares Show in Chicago is one of the United States' larger trade shows and draws 60,000 people ... by the end of March 3, organizers had canceled the 2020 show. The annual convention of physicists was set for Denver, but was also canceled by then.

 

Princess and its corporate owner had been dealing with the Diamond quarantine since Feb 3 - and very obviously should have looked at the ramifications fleetwide.

 

Each of the sailings that had COVID-related trouble since them was corporate malfeasance. None of this "blame the government" red herring.

Edited April 8, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[DaveSJ711]

The Guardian reports that the NSW police raided the Ruby Princess to gather evidence and to seize the ship's "black box."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/09/nsw-police-raid-ruby-princess-to-seize-evidence-and-question-crew-about-coronavirus-scandal

[Aus Traveller]

57 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

The Guardian reports that the NSW police raided the Ruby Princess to gather evidence and to seize the ship's "black box."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/09/nsw-police-raid-ruby-princess-to-seize-evidence-and-question-crew-about-coronavirus-scandal

 The story about "raided" sounds dramatic. Apparently the Police arrived at the ship at 7pm by prior arrangement with the Captain.

[DaveSJ711]

4 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

 The story about "raided" sounds dramatic. Apparently the Police arrived at the ship at 7pm by prior arrangement with the Captain.

 

Dramatic, yes -- it got my attention.  Same with the word "seize."

Edited April 9, 2020 by DaveSJ711

[caribill]

2 hours ago, DaveSJ711 said:

The Guardian reports that the NSW police raided the Ruby Princess to gather evidence and to seize the ship's "black box."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/09/nsw-police-raid-ruby-princess-to-seize-evidence-and-question-crew-about-coronavirus-scandal

 

I am not sure what "evidence" the black box would have. It certainly would not have a list of sick passengers or the reasons they were ill.

[InDaPast]

On 4/7/2020 at 6:51 PM, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Each of the sailings that had COVID-related trouble since them was corporate malfeasance. None of this "blame the government" red herring.

 

Yup...

As I posted about Carney's announcement that they will limit pax on their May & June cruises.....

 

Yea...dream on Carney....

Or, is it a ploy to hang onto folks deposits longer? IE, they want to give folks hope, while the MBA grads in the head office know otherwise.....maybe they were interns at Enron....