P&O are still aiming for May cruises to go ahead ???

[AndyMichelle]

16 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I have just read that Carnival are keeping all their ships 'hot', meaning ready to go with a near full crew. 

This costs up to $3 million per vessel, if in storage, $1million plus time and costs to get the ship ready. 

All sounds fine, if it is over reasonably quickly, but if prolonged, how long can they sustain it? 

The only positive we can possibly take from this is that Carnival must believe this could be over reasonably quickly... 

I wish I had their optimism... 

Andy 

Just read again, Carnival are expecting All their ships to be in prolonged storage... 

Andy 

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, AndyMichelle said:

All I'm saying is these are not usual times, the world is changing. 

Who would have thought a couple of months back that we would effectively be imprisoned in our own homes and most industry would grind to a halt... 

If the government feel it necessary to change anything, they will. 

Hopefully they won't. 

I have a theory that P&O have given themselves 60 days to see if they can survive... 

Hopefully the amount of passengers taking up the FCC will give them the funds to survive. 

If P&O go bust, your contract is worthless.. 

Andy 

As I said yesterday P&O are not helping themselves, they need to bend a little or they will break. At the moment all the bending is expected of customers.

 

A little flexibility now might help people to opt for FCC. 

[AndyMichelle]

Just now, Eglesbrech said:

As I said yesterday P&O are not helping themselves, they need to bend a little or they will break. At the moment all the bending is expected of customers.

 

A little flexibility now might help people to opt for FCC. 

Does it not cross your mind that if they bend at all, they may break... 

They won't be acting this way lightly... 

Andy 

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Whilst I appreciate that under normal circumstances the law of the land should stand, these are not normal times. 

Loyalty counts for nothing,  if your business goes bust because you are haemorrhaging cash due to obeying the t&c's.

As a consumer, winning a battle is useless,  if you then lose the war.

Our kitchen was being renovated prior to the lock down  - it is 75% finished but perfectly useable  - am I going to demand a repayment of  a substantial part of my advance payment because it is not completed? Of course not,hence my earlier post about adopting a more pragmatic approach  

I appreciate what you are saying Wozz and I would  do the same as you re the kitchen.

 

I have a real issue with people or organisations ignoring legislation. Even the government could not and would not formally enforce the pub closures for example without the emergency legislation in place to do so. So if the government is not above the law why are travel companies?

 

 

[terrierjohn]

18 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I have just read that Carnival are keeping all their ships 'hot', meaning ready to go with a near full crew. 

This costs up to $3 million per vessel, if in storage, $1million plus time and costs to get the ship ready. 

All sounds fine, if it is over reasonably quickly, but if prolonged, how long can they sustain it? 

The only positive we can possibly take from this is that Carnival must believe this could be over reasonably quickly... 

I wish I had their optimism... 

Andy 

Andy  I had read somewhere, only yesterday, that Carnival's CEO now believed that the recent new loan arrangements would enable Carnival group to last throughout the rest of the year, although I guess that they will have factored in some continuing revenue streams from future bookings, as well as allowing for further refunds.

[Eglesbrech]

5 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Does it not cross your mind that if they bend at all, they may break... 

They won't be acting this way lightly... 

Andy 

No I don’t believe that is the case, surely they will be losing future money / bookings. People with several cruise already booked will want cash back if an FCC is not a practical option for them, as several people on here have said.

I also don’t believe it is my responsibility to boost P&Os cash flow to the detriment of my own.
 

I fully respect the fact that others feel differently about that.

 

 

 

 

[wowzz]

16 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Does it not cross your mind that if they bend at all, they may break... 

They won't be acting this way lightly... 

Andy 

Also, in large organisations,  allowing for flexibility is a recipe for disaster. The moment one concession is made, that sets a precedent, and once the precedent is made, it is virtually impossible to "unmake" it.

 

[AndyMichelle]

2 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Also, in large organisations,  allowing for flexibility is a recipe for disaster. The moment one concession is made, that sets a precedent, and once the precedent is made, it is virtually impossible to "unmake" it.

 

Well put Wowzz. 

Think what we like, but in big business, especially when a company hits trouble, the customer is the least important cog.

P&O have never had a reputation for looking after their customers, they rely on a good value offering, what makes us think they will change now... 

Andy 

 

[glittergal1]

29 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I think the dilemma that P&O face (along with other cruise  lines) is that if they allow FCC to be applied to future cruises, it will virtually guarantee their demise. You might not like the current situation,  but without it, you won't be going on any future P&O,  or indeed, any Carnival line, cruises again.

I believe you may need to look at the bigger picture.

I really dont think that P&O by allowing those of us with FCC  (who have 4 or more) cruises booked  to use against 1 existing booking will guarantee their demise , Carnival are a multi Million maybe Billion £ company . By not allowing us to do this , rather than allowing the transference of  £800 fcc onto a cruise we may be forced to cancel 3 of the others and that would mean they dont get the £5000 from us for those ones And I know others are thinking of doing the same so P&O  will lose my £5000 and any future bookings from us along with many others. They have annoyed many loyal customers with their moving the goal posts and lack of flexibility at times like these it needs give and take from both sides and at the moment with P&O its all take from their side. obviously my opinion on my circumstances and how ive been treated by them over the last month 

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, glittergal1 said:

I really dont think that P&O by allowing those of us with FCC  (who have 4 or more) cruises booked  to use against 1 existing booking will guarantee their demise , Carnival are a multi Million maybe Billion £ company . By not allowing us to do this , rather than allowing the transference of  £800 fcc onto a cruise we may be forced to cancel 3 of the others and that would mean they dont get the £5000 from us for those ones And I know others are thinking of doing the same so P&O  will lose my £5000 and any future bookings from us along with many others. They have annoyed many loyal customers with their moving the goal posts and lack of flexibility at times like these it needs give and take from both sides and at the moment with P&O its all take from their side. obviously my opinion on my circumstances and how ive been treated by them over the last month 

They may be a multi billion pound company, but if you look at their recent financial borrowings, you will see that they are in dire straits. In the current environment they will be out of business before the end of the year - I would start planning some land based holidays for 2021.

[glittergal1]

3 minutes ago, wowzz said:

They may be a multi billion pound company, but if you look at their recent financial borrowings, you will see that they are in dire straits. In the current environment they will be out of business before the end of the year - I would start planning some land based holidays for 2021.

Well if that is the case then I hope Carnival  does  go out of Business it would serve them right , We had a terrible Carnival cruise with them last year  (obviously I would feel sad for all the staff) 

I at least if they go bust I will lose less money than I would have for Paying for all the cruises.  (I paid on credit card will claim on that ) And I would love  to book a land Holiday in 2021 unfortunately Ive 4 cruises booked (thank fully not all P&O) and no holiday left for land based,

But actually  thinking about it if Carnival do go out of Business that would free up 2 holidays for land based.😄

Thank you I feel better now so will look forward to Carnivals demise and my land holidays in the future 

 

 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, glittergal1 said:

Well if that is the case then I hope Carnival  does  go out of Business it would serve them right , We had a terrible Carnival cruise with them last year  (obviously I would feel sad for all the staff) 

I at least if they go bust I will lose less money than I would have for Paying for all the cruises.  (I paid on credit card will claim on that ) And I would love  to book a land Holiday in 2021 unfortunately Ive 4 cruises booked (thank fully not all P&O) and no holiday left for land based,

But actually  thinking about it if Carnival do go out of Business that would free up 2 holidays for land based.😄

Thank you I feel better now so will look forward to Carnivals demise and my land holidays in the future 

 

 

I'm sure the thousands of people throughout the world that rely on cruise lines for their employment will be grateful for your sympathy when they are out of work.

[cruisenewbie1976]

25 minutes ago, glittergal1 said:

Well if that is the case then I hope Carnival  does  go out of Business it would serve them right , We had a terrible Carnival cruise with them last year  (obviously I would feel sad for all the staff) 

I at least if they go bust I will lose less money than I would have for Paying for all the cruises.  (I paid on credit card will claim on that ) And I would love  to book a land Holiday in 2021 unfortunately Ive 4 cruises booked (thank fully not all P&O) and no holiday left for land based,

But actually  thinking about it if Carnival do go out of Business that would free up 2 holidays for land based.😄

Thank you I feel better now so will look forward to Carnivals demise and my land holidays in the future 

 

 

And here was me thinking that the current situation was bringing out the best in people. Maybe not in all cases. 

[Son of Anarchy]

2 hours ago, tring said:

 

Though that is something to be hoped for, I am not convinced that is necessarily the case.  I have a  close relative who spent a working life in consumer protection, with much of that specialising on the legal work and taking court cases.  It seems it is not unusual for regulations to be "tweaked" without going through Parliament and he is not convinced the changes proposed could not be done without Parliament.

 

I saw mention on another social media yesterday that these changes are currently being looked into and a decision will be made in the next few days - no idea where that information came from, but was not posted on an 'iffy' site with lots of speculation etc.  The person also mentioned there are concerns re expecting customers to fund a loan for holiday companies when Government are stumping up for other things.  Thinking on it the customers have votes and there are a lot of them.........

 

Only time will tell, nothing is certain at this time, but does not stop us hoping.  We are waiting for a couple of refunds from another cruise line.

 

Laws, regulations etc can be amended without a specific Act of Parliament.  A common way is to use a Statutory Instrument.  However, SIs take have to be published 40 days before implementation, in order for MPs to make further amendments etc or even reject it.  The 40 days does not include days that Parliament is either prorogued or dissolved.  Not sure whether or not that includes recess.

 

Several other ways, but I think they take longer than 40 days and are more complex.

 

If Parliament were sitting, they can bash through an new Act in a few day, as has been seen over recent months.

[Windsurfboy]

No law can change Carnival/P&O's cash flow.

 

Things are slow simply because of the amount of refunds , if they have the money we will eventually get it, if not then just hope government bails out ABTA or credit card company will pay up

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, glittergal1 said:

Well if that is the case then I hope Carnival  does  go out of Business it would serve them right , We had a terrible Carnival cruise with them last year  (obviously I would feel sad for all the staff) 

I at least if they go bust I will lose less money than I would have for Paying for all the cruises.  (I paid on credit card will claim on that ) And I would love  to book a land Holiday in 2021 unfortunately Ive 4 cruises booked (thank fully not all P&O) and no holiday left for land based,

But actually  thinking about it if Carnival do go out of Business that would free up 2 holidays for land based.😄

Thank you I feel better now so will look forward to Carnivals demise and my land holidays in the future 

 

 

And if Carnival Corporation goes bust, there must be a fair chance that all other cruise lines, all airlines and all package holiday firms go bust.  So hopefully you are planning land holidays in the UK using your own or public transport... 

[cruisenewbie1976]

1 minute ago, Britboys said:

And if Carnival Corporation goes bust, there must be a fair chance that all other cruise lines, all airlines and all package holiday firms go bust.  So hopefully you are planning land holidays in the UK using your own or public transport... 

Maybe a tent in the back garden? 

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Also, in large organisations,  allowing for flexibility is a recipe for disaster. The moment one concession is made, that sets a precedent, and once the precedent is made, it is virtually impossible to "unmake" it.

 

I agree entirely with your logic Wozz but they are expecting customers to make concessions so why is it fine one way but not the other?. Im right back to it all being very one sided.
 

A few judicious changes for now might just protect the business and the jobs.

 

[zap99]

1 hour ago, glittergal1 said:

Well if that is the case then I hope Carnival  does  go out of Business it would serve them right , We had a terrible Carnival cruise with them last year  (obviously I would feel sad for all the staff) 

I at least if they go bust I will lose less money than I would have for Paying for all the cruises.  (I paid on credit card will claim on that ) And I would love  to book a land Holiday in 2021 unfortunately Ive 4 cruises booked (thank fully not all P&O) and no holiday left for land based,

But actually  thinking about it if Carnival do go out of Business that would free up 2 holidays for land based.😄

Thank you I feel better now so will look forward to Carnivals demise and my land holidays in the future 

 

 

I'm sure that the thousands of staff put out of work will feel grateful that you are sad for them. If my August Iona cruise is cancelled and taking a FCC instead of a refund of my deposit helps I will take that gladly. But I doubt my £130 will help much. One of the joys of cruising is meeting lots of interesting people. I guess there are exceptions.

[Britboys]

3 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

Maybe a tent in the back garden? 

Nah - with overseas travel having stopped completely, there will be a world-wide tent shortage and you won't be able to get booked into a campsite for at least three years... 😉😁

[glittergal1]

Well it seems some of you missed the complete  sarcasm of my last post which was   in reply to Wowzz post , it was He/she that said Carnival were in Trouble .

Whereas I think they still have plenty of money  and are not at threat 

 

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

They may be a multi billion pound company, but if you look at their recent financial borrowings, you will see that they are in dire straits. In the current environment they will be out of business before the end of the year - I would start planning some land based holidays for 2021.

 

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

No I don’t believe that is the case, surely they will be losing future money / bookings. People with several cruise already booked will want cash back if an FCC is not a practical option for them, as several people on here have said.

I also don’t believe it is my responsibility to boost P&Os cash flow to the detriment of my own.
 

I fully respect the fact that others feel differently about that.

I still think that is a rather harsh view, this crisis has already resulted in a15% reduction in the UK GDP, and it is bound to get worse. The failure rate of businesses is going to be massive, leading to huge job losses, with public spending virtually limited to supermarkets and corner shops. Just about every other business and trade is going to find they have major liquidity problems, so I cannot bring myself to be critical of the actions P&O are taking to stay in business, regardless of the legal t&cs.

I refer you to my mantra, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the observance of fools".

[Britboys]

37 minutes ago, glittergal1 said:

Well it seems some of you missed the complete  sarcasm of my last post which was   in reply to Wowzz post , it was He/she that said Carnival were in Trouble .

Whereas I think they still have plenty of money  and are not at threat 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that - I was one who missed it.  That's the problem with on-line communication like this - it can be difficult to 'read' the tone.  I tend to use a 'rolling eyes' emoji when I am being sarcastic...

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

I still think that is a rather harsh view, this crisis has already resulted in a15% reduction in the UK GDP, and it is bound to get worse. The failure rate of businesses is going to be massive, leading to huge job losses, with public spending virtually limited to supermarkets and corner shops. Just about every other business and trade is going to find they have major liquidity problems, so I cannot bring myself to be critical of the actions P&O are taking to stay in business, regardless of the legal t&cs.

I refer you to my mantra, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the observance of fools".

So a genuine question, do you think that every company should be allowed to just play fast and loose with contracts at the moment?

 

If that behaviour is allowed to prevail then putting individual customers to one side, large companies will just stop paying smaller suppliers affecting their cash flow because by your logic, they can just ignore the T&Cs.

 

I tend to agree with your mantra however we are not talking about rules, we are talking about the law.

[AndyMichelle]

34 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

So a genuine question, do you think that every company should be allowed to just play fast and loose with contracts at the moment?

 

If that behaviour is allowed to prevail then putting individual customers to one side, large companies will just stop paying smaller suppliers affecting their cash flow because by your logic, they can just ignore the T&Cs.

 

I tend to agree with your mantra however we are not talking about rules, we are talking about the law.

It's happening, like it ot not... 

I paid my bills, hardly anybody paid me... I either give them a chance or pursue them, which will just make them fold with me getting nothing... 

Bigger scale, but same principle.. 

Andy